The Reaction To "Game" & Other Past Vile Behaviour - After Enlightenment - Thread

[Droughtmeat]

I'm not following your point here. If women are scared the guy will leave, then you'd think this would cause better behavior on their part, not worse, which is what we see all around us. Christian girls aren't willing to wait for sex?

Yes, maybe the wording was poor. I'm saying the guys aren't willing to wait for sex for 1 to 6 months or maybe even until marriage. Meanwhile pious Christian girls don't limit their "pool" to pious men exclusively.

Therefore, the women even end up with so called "f*ckboys", but won't make exceptions for him either.

Christian girls, at least in my experience, have often times kissed many men, but aren't willing to sleep with just any random guy who isn't looking for something really serious.

I can even remember years ago making out with Christian virgins within an hour of meeting them, but sex before marriage was completely off the table.

 

[Wutang]

Christian girls, at least in my experience, have often times kissed many men, but aren't willing to sleep with just any random guy who isn't looking for something really serious.

I can even remember years ago making out with Christian virgins within an hour of meeting them, but sex before marriage was completely off the table.

Reminds me of this serious Christian girl I knew in high school. I was once at a birthday party where I saw her making out with her boyfriend in the open. These weren't little pecks but full on slobbering on each other. However, she was also super prude when it came to any discussion of sexual matters. I remember a time when I was speaking to her and I brought up the Adult Swim programming block that was on Cartoon Network at the time. Her face instantly reacted in disgust because she had never heard of it but assumed it must have been something pornographic.

 

[Droughtmeat]

Reminds me of this serious Christian girl I knew in high school. I was once at a birthday party where I saw her making out with boyfriend open. These weren't little pecks but full on slobbering on each other. However, she also super prude when it came to any discussion of sexual matters. I remember a time when I was speaking to her and I brought up the Adult Swim programming block that was on Cartoon Network at the time. Her face instantly reacted in disgust because she had never heard of it but assumed it must have been something pornographic.

Yes, the kissing is intense and can go on for hours, literally.
I also agree regarding everything sexual. The ones I've met have some of the best sense of humor and will laugh at the darkest most "racist" jokes regarding all ethnicities. But don't you dare use double entendres with sexual meanings. Their demeanor will completely change or they'll just say "Please, I don't like that." But whenever I apologize it will be back to normal immediately.

 

[Blade Runner]

Christian girls, at least in my experience, have often times kissed many men, but aren't willing to sleep with just any random guy who isn't looking for something really serious.

Yes, the sexual spectrum of acceptability became a movement similar to the overton window shifting left as the "center" decade over decade. A lot of this has to do with the biological reality that we aren't getting married anywhere near the 16-26 year old ages most should be, or at least the 20 yo woman with a 30 yo man sort of thing.

 

[Droughtmeat]

Yes, the sexual spectrum of acceptability became a movement similar to the overton window shifting left as the "center" decade over decade. A lot of this has to do with the biological reality that we aren't getting married anywhere near the 16-26 year old ages most should be, or at least the 20 yo woman with a 30 yo man sort of thing.

Good point. Expecting them to wait until their late 20s or even 30s to kiss, get touched or just get that confirmation that they're sexually desired is a lot to ask for.

 

[Blade Runner]

Good point. Expecting them to wait until their late 20s or even 30s to kiss, get touched or just get that confirmation that they're sexually desired is a lot to ask for.

It's always people and the society that make it up that is either aware of history, biology, reality, etc. When you get way too much influence from wealth/women, it all goes to shit, and ironically women lose a game they can easily win if lead properly.

 

[analyst_green]

This turned out to be much harder than I expected. First, I had to compile a list of the 10 most notable PUAs (in my opinion, my list is heavily influenced by the content I used to read and watch). Then, I tried to dig up information on what they've been up to.

Another guy some of you might know is Good Looking Loser. He ended up getting married and quietly disappeared from his website before covid. That guy was nuts and really tried it all: getting extremely jacked on roids, enhancing his penis size by stretching, Soviet cosmonaut drugs to reduce approach anxiety, aggressively touching women to polarize them... Life was just like a formula to him.

I think different factors are at play here. One is, surely, that their personalities aren't destroyed by constant exposure to men, especially to men who are advanced in regards to flirting and sex. After being with 15 guys she will inevitably have experienced 1 or 2 men who are extremely confident, never lose their "frame" and are very good in bed. These guys will set the bar that those humble men looking for long term romance will struggle to reach.

The thing is the truly pious women will be able to see through the false confidence that hedonistic, player type men project. Especially as women are more emotionally sensitive. The only true confidence can come from serving God, everything else is just putting on a mask to hide our insecurities, which is what fornication does. So the goal for all of us should be to build that kind of rock solid confidence through our faith. This will attract more godly women for sure.

But yes, if a woman has had premarital sex and her husband doesn't live up to it, that dissatisfaction will take its toll on the marriage.

Reminds me of this serious Christian girl I knew in high school. I was once at a birthday party where I saw her making out with her boyfriend in the open. These weren't little pecks but full on slobbering on each other.

I can't believe people do this. Their level of self-control to then refrain from sex must be stratospheric. Or they're lying.

 

[Blade Runner]

So the goal for all of us should be to build that kind of rock solid confidence through our faith. This will attract more godly women for sure.

In times where you don't get young women, this largely makes a wife for life worth it, the way I see it.

In the old days it used to be, as I've said, remember the wife of your youth (so the man wouldn't cheat). Now, it's all inverted as women get tons of men and end with a man that gets nothing but used up goods, and disdain from a wife who's had too much experience.

 

[Blade Runner]

Now, it's all inverted as women get tons of men and end with a man that gets nothing but used up goods, and disdain from a wife who's had too much experience.

Isn't it weird that if you get a wife from a foreign country (that has tradeoffs but costs less, is younger and much hotter, and more feminine), the hags of the west claim she's the gold digger? Last I checked you couldn't get a 6 in America or worse countries without spending millions on lifestyle for that very hag.

 

[Let God Arise]

Isn't it weird that if you get a wife from a foreign country (that has tradeoffs but costs less, is younger and much hotter, and more feminine), the hags of the west claim she's the gold digger? Last I checked you couldn't get a 6 in America or worse countries without spending millions on lifestyle for that very hag.

It’s angry jealousy-coping, because they can’t compete and they also can’t stop you from broadening your search field beyond your borders. Women are highly competitive against each other and will all hate the beautiful woman who dresses classy and stylish. They’ll call her a whore, while dressing for the street, themselves.

 

[stadtaffe]

Another guy some of you might know is Good Looking Loser. He ended up getting married and quietly disappeared from his website before covid. That guy was nuts and really tried it all: getting extremely jacked on roids, enhancing his penis size by stretching, Soviet cosmonaut drugs to reduce approach anxiety, aggressively touching women to polarize them... Life was just like a formula to him.

Was coming to this thread specifically to ask about him, "Good Looking Loser" but the answer is already here. He was fantastic. Apart from his other content, shamelessly talking about steroid use in his podcasts. Although I have so far chosen not to use them myself one could appreciate his blatant honesty about them. Then there was his side business selling kratom. Not sure exactly what that stuff did for anyone.

 

[Samseau]

Mystery
Mystery apparently faced mental health challenges and gradually faded from the spotlight. He still does occasional coaching gigs, but there doesn’t seem to be much demand anymore (his Instagram page is quite sad really). He was banned from entering the U.S. for a while, but it’s unclear if that’s still the case. I'm not sure if he ever got married or had kids.

I definitely remember him having children, even Roissy had a pic of Mystery pushing a baby around in a stroller, and said it was the "End of an Era," which was pretty funny at the time. Don't know if he ever got married or not.

 

[Wutang]

Mystery definitely has a daughter. I listened to an interview from him either this or last year and he mentioned something about she was getting her fit for braces.

 

[Tippy]

One I haven't seen mentioned yet is John Bodi. He is now married with a kid in Poland I believe. He recently wrote and released 'Death by a thousand sluts volume 3' which was pretty down on the whole PUA lifestyle throughout.

The memoir does not get to his wife era but more him continually 'euro jaunting' with his heart clearly not in it, which gets pretty depressing to read after a while. Roosh was the same way at a certain point I feel, probably even for years actually.

 

[Tippy]

I've seen comments, here but mostly on other social media platforms, that a lot of dudes are lonely, lack any kind of network, and frankly, lack the ability to gain friends and social circles on their own. In a way, Game was designed to work on getting dates with women (at least Roosh's, his was less one-night stands and more of a 3-date bang), but Game can also be used to make friends and grow your social circle. My wife naturally games people in the sense that she gives them a good first impression, shows genuine interest in them, asks them questions and grows a small bond, especially if there is anything in common (in our case, having a kid in the same school). Because of this, we've grown a network of people and we've only lived in an area for a year and our business is gaining success to due to her natural outgoingness.

I had always hoped to see PUA and Game to lead to Christianized offshoots to help good men find wives, but the guys who were the most successful at it had no intention to do that. I had hoped when Roosh became Christian he would have gone in this direction, but he went full monk-mode. Vox Day, a Christian who knows all about Game and created a socio-sexual hierarchy, proved his lack of leadership abilities, heck, maybe even a lack of love for others by doing very little to help young men find a spouse. I never understood the intention to help ALL men instead of focusing on one group of men (Christians).

Essentially, I think Game could have evolved into a 'How To Win Friends And Influence People' 2.0 but it remained unpurified and focused on lust. There was this guy, Married Man Sex Life, Vox had briefly promoted on his blog, but the guy was an atheist.

I guess all I'm saying, or concluding, from this is I learned about Game when I already had a fiance. But what I had wished at the time was that I could have known about Game years before I met my current wife, this is because there were scores of girls I would have wanted to meet before I met her, who may have been better for my Christian life, but I was too green and bluepilled to do anything. That's where I think the ball was dropped greatly.

I discovered game for the first time in about 2013/14 where I stumbled upon 'The Game' funnily enough after reading the Motley Crue biography written by Neil Strauss. I didn't find it or read it to meet women, I was just reading voraciously and came across that book. I tried and failed a few things via the reading of Mystery and others after that. I wore a hat for a while (lol) and did some 'gambits.' I began to understand that a certain type of performance was needed. But I got tired and left it all behind after a few months.

It isn't lost on me that at this exact same time period a whole OTHER world of PUA's existed online where I could have gotten a ton of tailored advice. But I just didn't look into it and the clocks turned for several years.

Then in 2020 lockdown pandemic I was on a crazy no fap streak and I got recommended Roosh by a guy on no fap forums. I was VERY reluctant to read it because I had absorbed the normie perspective that PUA's were a bunch of goofy negging morons in silly hats (probably partly to protect my own ego).

Daybang really was something else in the sense that Roosh wrote with a very self-aware perspective. He didn't come across like an extroverted player but somehow escaped seeming like an autistic weirdo as well. He seemed like a bro but not too much of one due to his analytical nature. Just a unique combination that gave some hope you could be introverted and obsessive and find a way to make it work.

I went on my own 'daygame' Odyssey and it led to a lot of travelling and apporaching and eventually a girlfriend so I give props to Roosh for that but....

The main problem I had is that I absorbed all this non-comittal player advice and it led me to actually struggle when I met a decent woman who didn't particularly want to be 'gamed.' Because all of my actions had been from insecurity and following 'rules' I second guessed myself a lot and simply did not know what to do without it being OK by the arbitrary 'red pill' rule set.

It's also very addictive - the highs of the approach and the way it opens up perceived possibilities. It's hard not to get overly consumed by it.

When I first turned my back on game (much to the dismay of women all over the world I'm sure) I convinced myself it was better to just focus on my hobbies and interests and have a 'build it and they will come' mindset. Perhaps this was ego-protection but in another way I'm glad I spent a lot of time focusing on interests like writing and music rather than chasing women in those years where I had 'given up.' That time gave me something more lasting than frivolous encounters.

On the other hand, when I came back to 'game' again in 2020, I simply could not live with myself as a man who had given up and would possibly never get a girlfriend again. I felt like I absolutely had to prove myself and to do so would need me to do the things I was most afraid of. It took courage and some naive attitude that I am not sure I can ever replicate.

If I were single again right now, it would be really tough because I understand how much of a time suck approaching is. I'd probably advise myself to life a lifestyle somewhere in between my pathetic ego protective manouvres - to keep building oneself as the main focus and then approach now and then as a side activity. But it's much easier said than done in my experience, especially with women demanding more and more from men and the quality declining rapidly.

 

[Blade Runner]

If I were single again right now, it would be really tough because I understand how much of a time suck approaching is. I'd probably advise myself to life a lifestyle somewhere in between my pathetic ego protective manouvres - to keep building oneself as the main focus and then approach now and then as a side activity. But it's much easier said than done in my experience, especially with women demanding more and more from men and the quality declining rapidly.

Yes, the modern world is bad in many ways, most of which revolve around the fact that men have pretty much all the value but since there is relative overpopulation or imbalance of them, no one states this as the reality in the sense of being a lifetime commitment or for family formation. For example, you could talk about there being too many guys and too many low quality guys, but the truth is that none of those guys are going to get married or get a decent quality woman anyway, sad to say. What's left is what I talk about, which is a LOT of higher quality or successful guys from 30-55, but then the realities of guys only being serious about 20 year old women and women being told to do other things or forego the more important times of their lives for surrogate activities. The higher value guys are at least 10 fold the number of women that are even in the ballpark of what would be acceptable for a man's choice for a wife, and that's just physical - not behavior and otherwise.

 

[Wutang]

One I haven't seen mentioned yet is John Bodi. He is now married with a kid in Poland I believe. He recently wrote and released 'Death by a thousand sluts volume 3' which was pretty down on the whole PUA lifestyle throughout.

The memoir does not get to his wife era but more him continually 'euro jaunting' with his heart clearly not in it, which gets pretty depressing to read after a while. Roosh was the same way at a certain point I feel, probably even for years actually.

I'm assuming Bodi/BodiPUA is this guy?

Bodi's blog - Thoughts on degeneracy.

Thoughts on degeneracy.

bodiblog.net

I re-read his field report on Columbia a couple of times - not so much for the "dating" content (he actually found it disappointing) but rather because of his amusing descriptions on what the people and society there were like (also disappointing to him).

 

[Blade Runner]

I'm assuming Bodi/BodiPUA is this guy?

Bodi's blog - Thoughts on degeneracy.

Thoughts on degeneracy.

bodiblog.net

I re-read his field report on Columbia a couple of times - not so much for the "dating" content (he actually found it disappointing) but rather because of his amusing descriptions on what the people and society there were like (also disappointing to him).

Yes, this was funny by a commenter:

It’s interesting, the more I learn about IQ, the more it becomes clear to me just how much of the world is barely above retarded.

The biggest part for me as I get older, to consider women, is two-fold: IQ and godliness. Mostly, those come with less physical attraction. Or, the age gap has to be so big, it becomes untenable unless in the perfect place.

 

[Tippy]

I'm assuming Bodi/BodiPUA is this guy?

Bodi's blog - Thoughts on degeneracy.

Thoughts on degeneracy.

bodiblog.net

I re-read his field report on Columbia a couple of times - not so much for the "dating" content (he actually found it disappointing) but rather because of his amusing descriptions on what the people and society there were like (also disappointing to him).

Yes, that is Bodi. He was always one of the most honest writers on this stuff.

I actually met him in Warsaw and he advised me to get into coding (which I didn't do). I met Krauser too (he was hitting the mall to do some sets). I found something a little sad about Krasuer compared with others because while he seems to have left this whole PUA stuff behind (to a degree) he seems to not have found a replacement either and stuck in some sort of post game limbo.

There are still guys doing things. James Tusk and Troy. But something about their itiration of game seems very dark to me. A certain sort of cold soullessness to how they go about it. It's a business for them, afterall. It always was but for them it's that without the creative pioneering aspect that people like Mystery, Roosh and Torero had. And it simply doesn't seem or look fun.

Tom Torero's suicide happened at roughly the same age as Roosh's conversion (40ish). It seems the PUA lifestyle is a great way to live your 20s/30s but when you've travelled most places you want to visit, learnt how to have casual sex and had a good amount, what's the goal for the rest of your life? To just keep doing that? Men need to have their actions align with their goals and desires otherwise ironically it feels just as empty and forced as the 'blue pilled' world that this 'playa' life was created as an alternative to.

Men burn out energy wise and when the mental energy for sex (and associated activities) dwindles there needs to be a higher purpose in the second half of life, that seems pretty universal even for secular men.

 

[scary_robot_music]

Yes, that is Bodi. He was always one of the most honest writers on this stuff.

I actually met him in Warsaw and he advised me to get into coding (which I didn't do). I met Krauser too (he was hitting the mall to do some sets). I found something a little sad about Krasuer compared with others because while he seems to have left this whole PUA stuff behind (to a degree) he seems to not have found a replacement either and stuck in some sort of post game limbo.

There are still guys doing things. James Tusk and Troy. But something about their itiration of game seems very dark to me. A certain sort of cold soullessness to how they go about it. It's a business for them, afterall. It always was but for them it's that without the creative pioneering aspect that people like Mystery, Roosh and Torero had. And it simply doesn't seem or look fun.

Tom Torero's suicide happened at roughly the same age as Roosh's conversion (40ish). It seems the PUA lifestyle is a great way to live your 20s/30s but when you've travelled most places you want to visit, learnt how to have casual sex and had a good amount, what's the goal for the rest of your life? To just keep doing that? Men need to have their actions align with their goals and desires otherwise ironically it feels just as empty and forced as the 'blue pilled' world that this 'playa' life was created as an alternative to.

Men burn out energy wise and when the mental energy for sex (and associated activities) dwindles there needs to be a higher purpose in the second half of life, that seems pretty universal even for secular men.

Great comments. "Game" isn't evil per se but it will probably eventually destroy you if you have it, unless you combine it with wisdom and use it to find and keep the woman who will be the mother of your children. That's where meaning and purpose in life ultimately lie for the vast majority of men, in raising a family.