The Reaction To "Game" & Other Past Vile Behaviour - After Enlightenment - Thread

I've seen comments, here but mostly on other social media platforms, that a lot of dudes are lonely, lack any kind of network, and frankly, lack the ability to gain friends and social circles on their own. In a way, Game was designed to work on getting dates with women (at least Roosh's, his was less one-night stands and more of a 3-date bang), but Game can also be used to make friends and grow your social circle. My wife naturally games people in the sense that she gives them a good first impression, shows genuine interest in them, asks them questions and grows a small bond, especially if there is anything in common (in our case, having a kid in the same school). Because of this, we've grown a network of people and we've only lived in an area for a year and our business is gaining success to due to her natural outgoingness.

I had always hoped to see PUA and Game to lead to Christianized offshoots to help good men find wives, but the guys who were the most successful at it had no intention to do that. I had hoped when Roosh became Christian he would have gone in this direction, but he went full monk-mode. Vox Day, a Christian who knows all about Game and created a socio-sexual hierarchy, proved his lack of leadership abilities, heck, maybe even a lack of love for others by doing very little to help young men find a spouse. I never understood the intention to help ALL men instead of focusing on one group of men (Christians).

Essentially, I think Game could have evolved into a 'How To Win Friends And Influence People' 2.0 but it remained unpurified and focused on lust. There was this guy, Married Man Sex Life, Vox had briefly promoted on his blog, but the guy was an atheist.

I guess all I'm saying, or concluding, from this is I learned about Game when I already had a fiance. But what I had wished at the time was that I could have known about Game years before I met my current wife, this is because there were scores of girls I would have wanted to meet before I met her, who may have been better for my Christian life, but I was too green and bluepilled to do anything. That's where I think the ball was dropped greatly.
 
I don't have a disgust for "game" per se, depending how you define it, but I do have a disgust for that 2000s era PUA/PU mindset, which is still pervasive in some places. It's autistic, ideological, and insulting because it discounts the experiences and unique circumstances of the individual for the sake of axioms that are stated as absolute fact "that's just the way it is bro". Plus, that crowd teaches NOTHING about actually keeping women or long-term relationship advice in general.

If you define "game" as all knowledge and behavior related to dealing with women, then I don't have a problem with it. I think men are in desperate need of a deep level philosophy that teaches how to deal and relate to women and understand their behavior. Things like setting boundaries, holding frame, dealing with shvt tests, vetting for high quality women, detecting gaslighting/poison dripping, detecting signs of infidelity, trusting your gut, etc are skills most men seem blissfully unaware of, and these are things every man needs to know about.
 
Bizet said:
I’m considering compiling a list of the most prominent PUAs from the 2000s and 2010s to see where they are now and how many seem genuinely happy.
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That would be awesome. I think one of the issues full blown PUAs had was that picking up girls / getting laid was actually their job. Therefore, there was no final goal or exit strategy.

On the other hand, as I've said before, the benefits for shy, introverted guys of just getting out there and speaking to women, even if just for 3 minutes in the beginning and then 30 minutes after a couple of months of practice, while getting active coachiglng or feedback on online forums, were simply priceless.

Now I feel somewhat sorry for those men who really have no hope of meeting a decent woman at any point nor do they have a community that can help them, which is what those online forums were essentially, if used correctly.

Even just thinking about the book recommendations about female psychology, core differences between men and women etc. it definitely had value.

In addition, I get the impression that the hard-core online simping, thirsting etc. has increased partially as a result of guys being completely clueless about how to approach women.
 
Bizet said:
I’m considering compiling a list of the most prominent PUAs from the 2000s and 2010s to see where they are now and how many seem genuinely happy.
Click to expand...
Would be a worthwhile project - especially if we ever end up having a blog/website for this forum in the same way Return of Kings was for Roosh forums. It's something that could be posted up on there. I can't shake the dark feeling that this article would looking something like those lists of dead porn stars you see sometimes popping up on the internet though.
 
Bizet said:
I’m considering compiling a list of the most prominent PUAs from the 2000s and 2010s to see where they are now and how many seem genuinely happy.
Click to expand...

Great idea. My guess is it’s hard to escape that life and become a married man. Some of them built multi-million dollar businesses so there is constant temptation. I don’t know of any that became religious.
 
Droughtmeat said:
Now I feel somewhat sorry for those men who really have no hope of meeting a decent woman at any point nor do they have a community that can help them, which is what those online forums were essentially, if used correctly.
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If we're honest, and not many talk about this - because quite frankly, only types like us are capable of this analysis - we entered a quasi war time of population boom, abundance, and far too many men. Why does that explain everything? Hypergamy and increased wealth/deference guarantees a lockout of an overwhelming majority of men. That's just who and what women are. On this hang all the postings.

If you can't find a woman at all, or a suitable woman, you therefore have to go to a different place. Why did PUA even bother with constant distraction, constant approaching, obsessive levels of approaching the random girl for a numbers game (and if smart you'd go central location and meet a bar where alcohol can lubricate the exchange)? It was equally as dumb as online "dating" which turned out to be just "let me get some meals and a dream, and see how long it takes before we bang". LooksMaximus always made more sense if you were looking for just stupid sex anyway. I don't get why that was even a question. If the spectrum of girls is fatties you won't bang, and annoying girls you will but aren't actually interested in, or are vapid and materialistic, why are you spending excess time, money, and energy on them? Never made any sense to me.
 
Josephus said:
I don’t know of any that became religious.
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Quite a few did. I'm pretty sure the guy on Piers Morgan's show either was religious, and/or married a Russian girl (Richard La Ruina). In 2017 he rated the top countries Russia/Latvia/Denmark/China/Sweden.

There were at least two other guys that became christians, maybe Orthodox. That RSD short guy, Owen or something, also became a christian. Most of the PUAs I ever saw were not very believable, to be honest. I always thought the claims and videos were a hoax, like they are 95% of the time.
 
One of the things I really like about the sincere women at church is that none of this pickup garbage matters. Like a weight off your shoulders being able to have normal conversations without any stupid games. Yes, there will be awkward moments at first, but that's part of life. And the women don't hold it against you.

The hard part is finding out which women are sincere Christians but it gets easier with practice.
 
Bizet said:
I’m considering compiling a list of the most prominent PUAs from the 2000s and 2010s to see where they are now and how many seem genuinely happy.
Click to expand...

This turned out to be much harder than I expected. First, I had to compile a list of the 10 most notable PUAs (in my opinion, my list is heavily influenced by the content I used to read and watch). Then, I tried to dig up information on what they've been up to.

A lot of these figures have disappeared from the public eye, and there’s not much information available. If anyone knows more about what happened to them, feel free to share!

Mystery
Mystery apparently faced mental health challenges and gradually faded from the spotlight. He still does occasional coaching gigs, but there doesn’t seem to be much demand anymore (his Instagram page is quite sad really). He was banned from entering the U.S. for a while, but it’s unclear if that’s still the case. I'm not sure if he ever got married or had kids.

Neil Strauss (Style)
Neil remains active on social media, but mostly posts generic self-help advice on X. He divorced back in 2018, and again, it’s unclear if he’s dating anyone now or has any children.

David DeAngelo
David left the PUA scene years ago to focus on entrepreneurship and seems to have done well for himself. He married in 2011, but I’m not sure if they’re still together.

Nick Krauser
Nick stepped away from the PUA world and I believe he lives in Eastern Europe, likely supported by crypto and book sales. According to people on X, he’s still single (he'd be in his late 40s or early 50s by now) and is said to be quite bitter and unhappy. One of the true cautionary tales of the PUA scene.

Tom Torero
Tom was doxxed and deplatformed by a woke activist journalist who was aware of his struggles with depression. Tragically, he took his own life in 2021 as a result.

Julien Blanc (RSD Julien)
After facing public backlash and visa bans, Julien stepped away from the spotlight for a while. He’s since rebranded as a lifestyle coach, though it’s unclear how successful he’s been. On a positive note, he’s married with two kids now.

Owen Cook (RSD Tyler)
Owen transitioned into self-improvement and motivational content, similar to Julien. He claims to have converted to Christianity, but given his past amoral behavior, it’s hard to gauge the sincerity of his faith. His relationship status remains unknown.

Roosh
As we all know, Roosh abandoned the PUA lifestyle, converted to Orthodox Christianity, and retreated from public life. He found peace through his faith, though his strict lifestyle isn’t for everyone.

Heartiste
Heartiste blended pickup advice with far-right politics, those same politics eventually got him deplatformed. I could find virtually no information available on his whereabouts now.

Todd Valentine (RSD Todd)
Todd is the only person on this list still actively and teaching pick-up with any level of success, and hasn't pivoted into wishy-washy life coaching. He’s managed to stay somewhat relevant, though I’m unsure about his relationship status.

If anyone would like to add anything to this list, please be my guest!
 
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Bizet said:
David DeAngelo
David left the PUA scene years ago to focus on entrepreneurship and seems to have done well for himself. He married in 2011, but I’m not sure if they’re still together.
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I was quite a fan of his material back in the day, a long time ago. Will done on your research! Yes, these characters don't seem to end up that happy in the long term.

Some other names that come to mind are Rollo Tomassi (was never a fan) and Tyler Durden from RSD. There was actually someone else from the Mystery group will try to remember their name.
 
stadtaffe said:
Some other names that come to mind are Rollo Tomassi (was never a fan)
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I didn't include Rollo because while he was a definitely an influential voice in the PUA world, he was married the whole time and didn't really experience the player lifestyle first hand.
 
It doesn’t accomplish a lot to focus on the pickup characters but you do have to realize that the old pickup ‘community’ was operating in an different time. The internet was raging and ideas were being shared but social media was still in its infancy. The culture seems to have changed so that their gimmicky shit wouldn’t hit these days, but those guys figured out a ton of female psychology that on one hand seems to have been lost but on the other hand some of it is just common knowledge now. I’m seeing a couple guys come up on my YouTube who are clearly regurgitating old school pickup stuff for the next generation. I saw one today actually - a short video of a guy explaining the difference in loyalty between men and women. That men are loyal to people and women are loyal to their feelings. A very basic game principle that came up in the heyday
 
Douglas Quaid said:
One of the things I really like about the sincere women at church is that none of this pickup garbage matters. Like a weight off your shoulders being able to have normal conversations without any stupid games. Yes, there will be awkward moments at first, but that's part of life. And the women don't hold it against you.
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I think different factors are at play here. One is, surely, that their personalities aren't destroyed by constant exposure to men, especially to men who are advanced in regards to flirting and sex. After being with 15 guys she will inevitably have experienced 1 or 2 men who are extremely confident, never lose their "frame" and are very good in bed. These guys will set the bar that those humble men looking for long term romance will struggle to reach.

Another factor, in my opinion, is simply that they have better personalities. These women know that they can't and won't use sex to get a man. Thus, they develop other aspects of their personalities, like being funny, actually listening, showing empathy and skills they're naturally interested in, like cooking, knitting etc.

In addition, in my experience, Christian women don't really care how pious a man is, as long as he believes in God. As a result these girls actually have issues with scarcity in the sense that they're open to being with pretty much any guy who is Christian on paper, but few are willing to wait for sex. Therefore, their main concern is that the guy they're truly interested in will leave, because she won't sleep with him.
 
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