The future of flying

Samseau said:
There were two other experienced pilots onboard and they couldn't take control from her?
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That was my question too. I had a conversation about this with a pilot today and he said helo pilots apparently cannot visually see well above them due to the effect of the rotor . Could have obstructed everyone’s vision until it was too late to correct. It remains that the chopper was above the ceiling and appeared to have been heading somewhat level with the plane until the point of impact. You would think they would have seen something at some time before it was too late, but maybe not.

It’s insane to me that these helicopters were allowed to operate at all around a commercial airport. Lots of lights in the city and around the airspace to keep track of. It would seem like something like this was bound to happen sometime, all that would be required was a pilot relaxing and not paying attention to the relevant factors for a few brief moments.
 
Thomas More said:
My guess is that this young female White House aide, who is also an Army Reserve pilot, was in the co-pilot seat, and was not flying the aircraft. If she did actually have control of the aircraft at the moment of impact, they should say so, but even then the head pilot would have responsibility for the flight at all times.
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From what I've been reading, this was an evaluation flight. She was flying the helo from the co-pilot's seat, with the instructor watching her from the first pilot's seat, from where he could take over the control.
 


In air traffic control (ATC), “requested visual separation” means that a pilot is asking for permission to maintain their own safe distance from other aircraft using visual cues rather than relying on ATC instructions.

This usually happens in good weather when pilots can clearly see other aircraft. ATC may approve it if they believe the pilot can safely manage the separation without additional help.
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TruckDriver9 said:
From what I've been reading, this was an evaluation flight. She was flying the helo from the co-pilot's seat, with the instructor watching her from the first pilot's seat, from where he could take over the control.
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That makes sense. I would say in that case it was the instructor's responsibility to have figured out why the tower kept warning them about another plane, just as he was flying through the landing path of a major airport with ADS-B turned off.

She may have had the controls at the moment of impact, but the responsibility is all his in that role.
 

Investigators have found conflicting altimeter readings from the control tower data of the Black Hawk military helicopter and the passenger jet that collided over Washington on Jan. 29.

National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) officials told reporters on Feb. 1 that preliminary altimeter data do not match the events on the night of the deadly accident.

Officials said the control tower recorded the Black Hawk helicopter flying at an altitude of 200 feet at the time of the collision, in line with its maximum allowed altitude for its flight path.

However, data from the passenger jet’s flight recorder show the collision occurred at an altitude of about 325 feet, plus or minus 25 feet.
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homersheineken said:
I see what you're saying but didn't they crash above sea level, so they should be the same?
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2 different metrics:
MSL-AGL.JPG


RedLagoon said:
No. You have an altimeter which (should) always be set to reflect sea level altitude and then you have ground proximity level ie how far you're from the actual terrain.

The black hawk was 100ft too high from the terrain but just kept its trajectory.
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I was thinking that maybe the pilot (-ess) was reading the wrong gauge, and thought she's lower than she really was.
 
Pilots don't use AGL during most operations so it's not really relevant here. It's possible the helo pilots had their altimeter set incorrectly (it has to be compensated for local air pressure conditions to display true elevation), that would be a giga-rookie mistake but stranger things have happened.
 
homersheineken said:
Look at that image.

They crashed over the Potomac river, which feeds into Chesapeake Bay, which leads in the Atlantic ocean - sea level. When they collided the AGL and MSL should be the same.
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Think there still would be a difference in elevation.
But it doesn't seem to be relevant, as explained:

Iakobos said:
Pilots don't use AGL during most operations so it's not really relevant here. It's possible the helo pilots had their altimeter set incorrectly (it has to be compensated for local air pressure conditions to display true elevation), that would be a giga-rookie mistake but stranger things have happened.
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Iakobos said:
Pilots don't use AGL during most operations so it's not really relevant here. It's possible the helo pilots had their altimeter set incorrectly (it has to be compensated for local air pressure conditions to display true elevation), that would be a giga-rookie mistake but stranger things have happened.
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*Edit

There wouldn't be any AGL warnings as they were above a river that's at sea level thanks @homersheineken

So what I can gather is that the visual the heli pilots had were not from the jet they collided with but with the one behind it who didn't need to deviate to runway 33.

What a military helicopter was even doing there crossing the approach of a runway of an extremely busy commercial airport is another story.
 
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homersheineken said:
I understand you diagram, but they were over the sea when they collided, so AGL and MSL should be the same.
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I thought the Potomac River would above sea level where it passes through Washington DC, but I just checked, and you are right. The river surface by the airport is zero meters above sea level.
 
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