US College protests -Israel/Palestine
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Wrong, self-defense is moral.
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For 400k you'd think they'd be better than that...
Columbia University's current tuition rate is worth an excellent investment on how to write and spell incorrectly.
Did Hamas conduct the same sort of attacks we all condemn Israel for with regard to willfully targeting non- belligerents?
If you're denying that they haven't also killed innocent men women and children then I really don't know what to tell you.
There's enough snuff videos of aftermath of the Oct 7 attacks... Allowed to happen or not ...I'm not going to defend them either.
If that's an area you feel committed to defend... Knock yourself out.
I'm not interested. I feel for the Christians persecuted there... But the civil war element between the Muslims and the Jews there isn't going to change any time now or ever...
If someone comes and kills your family, it makes sense that they will seek revenge and kill their family in return. I do not judge anyone who seeks revenge in such circumstances.
Even though, as Christians, we know it is more holy not to seek revenge, I do not judge those who seek revenge because it is a natural thing to seek retribution. Anyone who judges someone in such a situation is a hypocrite. You have no idea how you would act in the Palestinian's situation.
Additionally, the "atrocities" were tame in comparison to what the Talmuds have done, and most of the citizens were killed by their own IDF on 10/7. Hamas was under orders to capture as many citizens as possible, obviously to bargain with. Most were captured, some were killed or tortured. It's absolutely small potatoes to the destruction the Talmuds have been inflicting.
"Sow the wind; Reap the whirlwind" perfectly describes what Talmuds are doing. It's beyond me how anyone can feel bad for people who behave like monsters for decades when the wrath of God comes back to them.
You are making moral equivalency....and obfuscating the fact that there is no justification for killing an innocent life.
God is the judge... But if you can't condemn the violence... You're in the wrong.
I've seen this sort of stuff first hand... It'd possible to condemn both sides and recognize neither one is championing some nobile cause.
Once you start excusing atrocities you lose all high ground. Its possible, by that logic, to make the same argument that Jews are in the right for acting in retaliation for the murder of some of their innocent people. You don't know how you'd react if your father/daughter/son/wife was kidnapped.
Maybe because I've been to war im uninterested in supporting either side here...
I really don't have an interest in supporting Israel at all... But I do think that the ramifications of Hamas as a political body are an assured way to get Israeli military action and they are enabling the persecuted Jew, backed up against the wall narrative.... however incorrect that is.
Nope, you are. Killing one person is not equivilent to killing 10. Killing 1000 is not equivilant to killing millions.
On the evil scale, Hamas gets a 1 out of 10. Talmuds get a full 10 out of 10. Anyone equating Hamas to Israel/Talmuds is deluding themselves by chugging down (((propaganda))).
Sorry my friend but I think you are totally missing it.
My point is that both are wrong. I'm not saying Jewish invasion is anything other than a travesty. It's terrible.
But implying, as a Christian, that it's justifiable for one group to commit murder/rape/kidnapping out of retaliation in "self defense" is one of the most ludicrous things I've read from a Mod on a Christian Forum.
I don't like Hamas, I don't like Israeli government. I hate what's going there by both parties.
It's possible to say both are bad and this should end immediately with out having to make excuses for one group committing atrocities while condemning the other.
I think what Israel has done to the Palestinians is equally awful.
Stop trying to make me come me off like I'm defending the Israeli government when I'm pointing out a fact that both sides are doing terrible things and I can't in good conscience support Hamas any more than Israel.
And yes you are still making a moral equivalency argument.
Disruptive? I'd argue they are not disruptive enough.
Does Palestine really need to be more compliant and quiet?
How has that worked out for the Palestinians since 1945?
Similar to anti-fa? I really don't get that one. I mean I guess you could probably think really hard and find an issue they agree on--which you could do with anyone by the way.
I suppose if you consider Israel are the fascists and Hamas are those opposing fascism, then you could claim Hamas is "antifascist" but that really seems to be reaching.
I don't really care if Hamas is "like me." Hamas is the ruling party of the Palestinian people. Should they have a white guy leader?
It's like when people criticize Putin over a minor position that would be unpopular in the US... the guy is from a totally different culture and is working on a whole different set of problems. I don't expect Hamas to be "like me" -- I'm heading to Japan. I don't expect the leader of Japan to be "like me" at all-- and that certainly doesn't make me dislike Japan. In fact, I probably wouldn't care about visiting Japan if he were. I *do* hope that he makes decisions that are good for the Japanese and tries to preserve their culture and history.
When I hear people say "I don't care about either side! They are both bad" I think about the demographic and cultural problem the US has with blacks and latinos.
Yes latinos are slightly more dangerous than an all white society would be. And I am neither latino nor black--they are both "different" and more violent than my people. But pretending that one group is not orders of magnitude more evil and dangerous than the other is disingenuous.
For the sake of argument, let's pretend that both Muslims and Jews cause similar disruptions to the western way of life. That isn't true, historically, nor demonstrably today, but assume it's true. So the 0.01 microscopic gray line is causing as much harm to the world as the 1.8B green bar? These are in no way equivalent threats.
I mean, I guess someone could argue from a Christian perspective that they don't care about anyone who isn't Christian (and in fact many boomers do take this position). This is of course heretical and evil, but setting aside the moral implications which violate the Biblical teachings of the Pharisees and the Samaritans, ok, let's view both groups as non-Christians which we are not going to care about until we convert them to our belief. But you're going to run into one huge problem doing that--while there are already Christians in Palestine, proselytising in Israel will get you imprisoned and banned from the country.
Hamas are the good guys in this conflict, to the degree war has good guys. I hope and pray that they are more victorious than we can even imagine.
If someone steals your land and builds on it. And they do that because they are backed up by a group (e.g, the military) that has powerful guns. Are they civilians?
Why do I have to accept your narrative and chose a side here...Disruptive? I'd argue they are not disruptive enough.
Does Palestine really need to be more compliant and quiet?
How has that worked out for the Palestinians since 1945?
Similar to anti-fa? I really don't get that one. I mean I guess you could probably think really hard and find an issue they agree on--which you could do with anyone by the way.
I suppose if you consider Israel are the fascists and Hamas are those opposing fascism, then you could claim Hamas is "antifascist" but that really seems to be reaching.
I don't really care if Hamas is "like me." Hamas is the ruling party of the Palestinian people. Should they have a white guy leader?
It's like when people criticize Putin over a minor position that would be unpopular in the US... the guy is from a totally different culture and is working on a whole different set of problems. I don't expect Hamas to be "like me" -- I'm heading to Japan. I don't expect the leader of Japan to be "like me" at all-- and that certainly doesn't make me dislike Japan. In fact, I probably wouldn't care about visiting Japan if he were. I *do* hope that he makes decisions that are good for the Japanese and tries to preserve their culture and history.
When I hear people say "I don't care about either side! They are both bad" I think about the demographic and cultural problem the US has with blacks and latinos.
Yes latinos are slightly more dangerous than an all white society would be. And I am neither latino nor black--they are both "different" and more violent than my people. But pretending that one group is not orders of magnitude more evil and dangerous than the other is disingenuous.
For the sake of argument, let's pretend that both Muslims and Jews cause similar disruptions to the western way of life. That isn't true, historically, nor demonstrably today, but assume it's true. So the 0.01 microscopic gray line is causing as much harm to the world as the 1.8B green bar? These are in no way equivalent threats.
I mean, I guess someone could argue from a Christian perspective that they don't care about anyone who isn't Christian (and in fact many boomers do take this position). This is of course heretical and evil, but setting aside the moral implications which violate the Biblical teachings of the Pharisees and the Samaritans, ok, let's view both groups as non-Christians which we are not going to care about until we convert them to our belief. But you're going to run into one huge problem doing that--while there are already Christians in Palestine, proselytising in Israel will get you imprisoned and banned from the country.
Hamas are the good guys in this conflict, to the degree war has good guys. I hope and pray that they are more victorious than we can even imagine.
Haven't pan-arab leagues had multiple opportunities to solve this issue over time?
Why should I involve myself with it.
Can't I say I don't give a shit.
You're missing my assertion... it's not self defense To kill an innocent child. That's commandment number uno.
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Nobody is stopping a demonstration. Setting up shanty towns on campus and creating tent cities isn't a form of free speech or peaceful demonstration. These are the same people at BLM protests, occupy Wall Street, World Bank demonstrations and gay pride marches. I'm stunned that some on this forum seem to exhibit a form of comradery with these ignorant and spoiled college brats. This is Jew derangement syndrome and is the same as Trump derangement syndrome. Anything that Trump supports is wrong, anything that Jews support is wrong.
Maybe we should stay out of it, not fund ANY war and focus on our own problems/border. I'm done with this conflict. There is nothing we can do now that already hasn't been done/tried and nothing ever works. One side has to win for a war to end.
One more thing, The Abraham Accords were the best chance the world has had in decades to solve the Israel/Palestine conflict. The Biden Admin threw all of that away because of TDS. The nations in that region need to unite behind a solution to this conflict which will have aspects that neither side will like. This will take strong leadership from the West. Trump was on his way to achieving this. But that's for another thread.
There are no good guys in this conflict and I am more than sick of it.
There are no good guys in this conflict and I am more than sick of it.
To your point... and I'm not calling you a boomer at all or saying you're wrong... but would like to add an ! to it:
I dont support the Israeli regime.... I dont support their influence here in our country. I loathe what they have done to our body politik. However, the effect of the Pro-Palestenians here in the US (funded by Soros et. Al) is to intensify division here in the United States in the same effect as BLM.
What seems to be lacking among some here is that the end state of the division is the same. Whites are demonized by Muzzies and Jews on both fronts. The common cry of the Pro-Palestian crowd here is the Rashida Talib "Anti-Colonizer" mentality.
If you're supporting that and expecting a heritage American to be aligned... you're fucking high. Doesn't mean I cant lament death on all sides. But I want NOTHING to do with it, and I dont want to have to chose between one group full of douche bags against another group full of douche bags and be told I'm supposed to take a side. No thanks...
They were an attempt (rightfully or wrongly) to force a lasting peace. I have heard apologists on both sides of this and am not sure they were correct or would have been successful.... so I am not sure here.
But I do generally accept that the fact of the matter is that Israel and Saudi Arabia are aligned (due to liberalized government and desire for foregin investment and tourism) compared to Iran and other states which are playing a natrual resource game.
The more you realize this isint about anything other than oil/gas/resources.... the less sympathetic to XYZ group you become. (not directed at you UZI just pointing out the reality of the "Why" behind the alliance)
So you do agree that Hamas is evil (if only 10% evil)?
Nobody of importance is doing this.
No one is saying the scale of atrocities are equivalent.
People are saying that it's impossible to support either side given the fact that both sides political groups are actively commiting disreputable acts.
Surely the above is an understandable logical comment.
I don't see it. One side is a brutal occupier, as brutal and evil as any we have ever seen in history. The other side is simply resisting the occupation with whatever means they have.
What happened on October 7th to the Israelis has happened to the Palestinians dozens of times before that. This was the one time they managed to get back at the Israelis.
One side is much, much worse than the other.
Yes... And through their infinite ability to strike at the Jews.... Ensure their own destruction while fomenting a disruptive campaign that allows Jews more power globally.
Some of you here need to read that again.
Congress is controlled by Jews. So what. We can kick them out... maybe ...God willing....But regardless... So what? Your point is we should champion one side that commits murder, kidnap, and rape because it's against the side we disagree with?
Why do I have to support rapists/kidnappers/murders just because they raped/Killed/murdered the innocent of their enemies?
This is totally an illogical argument.
Again. I 0say the point is to avoid entanglement with Jews and Arabs alike on this subject and focus on yourself. I like a muscular Christian belief that demonstrated my values and worth through my work.
If you've not got a wife, kids, and a stake in the game then shut up about the Jews and the Palestinians.
For the rest, I think it's apropos to condemn Israel for carpet bombing Gaza ECT.... But if you want to start championing Hamas as good guys and all that... Im laughing because you're supporting the same people that would ultimately call YOU a colonizer.
People on the Internet don't understand because they're never been anywhere and never done much of shit....so it's easy to assume the enemy of my enemy is my friend... Both are your enemy.
Jerusalem should be Christian. Not Jew. Not Muslim. Anything else is just equivocation about the particular side of the day.
I leave it to the Bishops and Metropolitans to tell us how we could accomplish that... But until then... It's all academic.
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