The Abortion Thread

[Blade Runner]

Why would a priest tell men they have no hope? They are not ministers of Satan. You can find good priests answering what a man should do to find a wife. I know that both Fr Josiah Trenham and Fr Peter Heers have addressed this and their answers were similar: "grow closer to Christ" why would they say "don't bother, there's no hope to find a good woman."?

I think you are an earnest poster and that overall this is well meaning, but you are missing many points here and characterizing things incorrectly on multiple levels. Let me explain.

First, I never suggested that a priest tell anyone they have no hope, so I don't know where that came from. I find Mar Mari's example, which is likely similar to other priests who "give good advice" to be important but lacking in the vein of the larger point of my post. That is, if you tell a man, "find a godly wife" or a woman who loves God, and (bear with me to prove this point) there aren't any women that love God or are active in the church, that's not helpful advice. If at some level, or when you've lost an entire group, the rate limiting step, to the temptations of Babylon, you have to address that. Come on, this is just basic stuff. Now, a counter and the bickering could be based on this kind of response: "Well, Blade Runner, you just need to marry the good women who happen to be overweight and older." And then we just have the same issue the forum has complained about ad infinitum, which is that western women that are young or any good as wives at all are so miniscule that the only option, especially for a successful man (and even average men want attractive 20 year olds, lol) is to leave the country.

If it was profitable for him to chastise secular feminist women (who aren't going to listen to him anyway)

I look at it as being something that they aren't willing to suffer for - telling the truth - for the good of others. If we are too far gone, then let's just bring on the depopulation and give Glory to God for all things, since part of those all things is going to be leaving decent men (or more) behind with no children or wives. Standing by and doing or saying nothing to women is something I find irresponsible for man, or a larger group of men with supposed sway.

[I'm sad to tell you I think this is exactly how it will go for reasons I've stated elsewhere]

Its not always advisable to shout from the rooftops things that are best tailored to the individual.

I agree with this. I have shown that your post confuses many things, though, that neglect a larger point: if we don't or can't promote kids and family in our churches, there won't be many left to tailor anything to.

 

[Lawrence87]

I think you are an earnest poster and that overall this is well meaning, but you are missing many points here and characterizing things incorrectly on multiple levels. Let me explain.

First, I never suggested that a priest tell anyone they have no hope, so I don't know where that came from. I find Mar Mari's example, which is likely similar to other priests who "give good advice" to be important but lacking in the vein of the larger point of my post. That is, if you tell a man, "find a godly wife" or a woman who loves God, and (bear with me to prove this point) there aren't any women that love God or are active in the church, that's not helpful advice. If at some level, or when you've lost an entire group, the rate limiting step, to the temptations of Babylon, you have to address that. Come on, this is just basic stuff. Now, a counter and the bickering could be based on this kind of response: "Well, Blade Runner, you just need to marry the good women who happen to be overweight and older." And then we just have the same issue the forum has complained about ad infinitum, which is that western women that are young or any good as wives at all are so miniscule that the only option, especially for a successful man (and even average men want attractive 20 year olds, lol) is to leave the country.

I look at it as being something that they aren't willing to suffer for - telling the truth - for the good of others. If we are too far gone, then let's just bring on the depopulation and give Glory to God for all things, since part of those all things is going to be leaving decent men (or more) behind with no children or wives. Standing by and doing or saying nothing to women is something I find irresponsible for man, or a larger group of men with supposed sway.

[I'm sad to tell you I think this is exactly how it will go for reasons I've stated elsewhere]

I agree with this. I have shown that your post confuses many things, though, that neglect a larger point: if we don't or can't promote kids and family in our churches, there won't be many left to tailor anything to.

Perhaps I misconstrued you, you said something along the lines of priests talking about how there is no future for men.

It might not be helpful advice, but I honestly don't know how priests could tackle the subject in broad general terms. If you have one guy who has a decent job and prospects that could move anywhere they want to, and are relatively confident and charming etc, your advice might be different to what you would say to a socially awkward guy who doesn't have a very good job, and is stuck at home with their parents, and it could well be that the same advice might make one feel dejected and further downtrodden whilst the other uplifted and hopeful. I don't really understand how a priest can answer a broad question to the public in anything other than broad and general terms. For example saying 'leave the country' isn't going to help the dude who doesn't have great prospects, and might actually compound his problems. The reason for the whole 'talk to your priest' thing that has become a bit of a meme is because of stuff like this.

I will admit, I am not quite sure exactly what you are proposing that priests say, and to whom? Say something to the women in the church? Or the women outside the church who already hate them and will not listen? The former it seems to be largely addressing the wrong crowd, and if there are issues with the behaviour of individual women in the church then this is again a pastoral matter, not something necessarily to call out in front of everyone. Addressing latter, seems a bit ineffectual, if you ask me.

It just seems like 'I can't find priests saying what I think they ought to be saying' isn't necessarily an indication that their are failing at their pastoral duty. It could be that their perspective on things leads them to not see doing so as a wise thing to do. Like I say I don't think Fr Josiah Trenham has his head in the sand about anything. He speaks bout about the alphabet people, about coof etc. I see no reason to suppose that he would avoid saying something beneficial for fear of upsetting people. It could be that they just look at it from a different perspective and decide its not the best way to address the issue.

 

[BrotherAugustine]

I don't advise ignoring the Bible, especially the words of the Christ. That's a fast track to hell.

I agree! When can we expect you to apply this to your support of abortionist politicians?

 

[Get2choppaaa]

I agree! When can we expect you to apply this to your support of abortionist politicians?

You really are obtuse on this talking point Michael.

I love you man, but your take on it is not aligned with what we all see.

And I'll edit to add... In looking back at your hour long video, there isn't a differentiator in anything your saying, except to say that by R v. Wade being overturned abortions continue in a different method.

 

[Rax Moscow]

Indeed abortions continue today under pharmaceuticals at an even higher rate than they did in 1973.
The fake victory of "overturning" Roe v Wade has shut down the Right to Life movement, while nothing really changed except abortions got faster, better, and cheaper ie capitalism at work.

 

[fokm]

Indeed abortions continue today under pharmaceuticals at an even higher rate than they did in 1973.
The fake victory of "overturning" Roe v Wade has shut down the Right to Life movement, while nothing really changed except abortions got faster, better, and cheaper ie capitalism at work.

But the right feels like it got a win, after 40 years. You have to give them at least one victory in 40 years, otherwise the system may destabilize.

 

[BrotherAugustine]

You really are obtuse on this talking point Michael.

I love you man, but your take on it is not aligned with what we all see.

And I'll edit to add... In looking back at your hour long video, there isn't a differentiator in anything your saying, except to say that by R v. Wade being overturned abortions continue in a different method.

Roe v Wade is not what I’m referring to here, but rather Donald Trump’s embrace of abortion so that “both sides are gonna like” him and Samseau’s insistence that trying to outlaw abortion means you can’t get political power. I don’t think “we won’t get the power unless we let them kill babies” is a very Biblical concept but maybe that’s just me.

 

[Get2choppaaa]

Roe v Wade is not what I’m referring to here, but rather Donald Trump’s embrace of abortion so that “both sides are gonna like” him and Samseau’s insistence that trying to outlaw abortion means you can’t get political power. I don’t think “we won’t get the power unless we let them kill babies” is a very Biblical concept but maybe that’s just me.

From how I see it....Your characterization is incorrect.

My point is that to get to this outlawing of the act, you have to first get the federal government to agree that it's not protected at the federal level.

That's now occured.

I think the disconnect is that you're expecting some sort of decree or act that is not concomitant with the political reality.

 

[BrotherAugustine]

I think the disconnect is that you're expecting some sort of decree or act that is not concomitant with the political reality.

I don't believe that the Word of God is subservient to what you call "political reality" or that we should vote for abortionists just because that's what is "concomitant" with it. If you want to bank on Jesus agreeing with your reasoning on Judgment Day that's on you.

 

[Get2choppaaa]

I don't believe that the Word of God is subservient to what you call "political reality" or that we should vote for abortionists just because that's what is "concomitant" with it. If you want to bank on Jesus agreeing with your reasoning on Judgment Day that's on you.

I just reject your assertion that people who were in favor of Roe V Wade being overturned are now somehow abortionists.

Its possible to live in a world where there Roe V Wade being overturned is a good thing, and YET other states have not completely outlawed abortion through other mechanisms.

I just don't understand the framing of your argument as though this reflects some clear choice against Donald Trump.

We should instead support whom? Kennedy (a catholic whos pro abortion) or Biden (the same...)

Frankly its like arguing from a foregone conclusion as far as I can see.

Removing Roe V Wade is something that WEAKENS the federal protection of abortion. Now states must outlaw abortive in their individual state.

That does not mean that because one thing happened the other one cant in the future. In fact the opposite. Because the Federal statutes was overturned, there is a pathway for the latter to occur....

So again I just dont follow the linear progression of the argument you're making brother.

 

[BrotherAugustine]

I just reject your assertion that people who were in favor of Roe V Wade being overturned are now somehow abortionists.

Its possible to live in a world where there Roe V Wade being overturned is a good thing, and YET other states have not completely outlawed abortion through other mechanisms.

I just don't understand the framing of your argument as though this reflects some clear choice against Donald Trump.

We should instead support whom? Kennedy (a catholic whos pro abortion) or Biden (the same...)

Frankly its like arguing from a foregone conclusion as far as I can see.

Removing Roe V Wade is something that WEAKENS the federal protection of abortion. Now states must outlaw abortive in their individual state.

That does not mean that because one thing happened the other one cant in the future. In fact the opposite. Because the Federal statutes was overturned, there is a pathway for the latter to occur....

So again I just dont follow the linear progression of the argument you're making brother.

I’m not sure where I’m being unclear here. Trump said he will compromise with the left on abortion so that “both sides are gonna like” him. It wasn’t a vague statement.

 

[Get2choppaaa]

I’m not sure where I’m being unclear here. Trump said he will compromise with the left on abortion so that “both sides are gonna like” him. It wasn’t a vague statement.

Firstly, Talking and doing aren't the same thing.

Secondly, again, youre claiming someone is an abortionist when there is no action demonstrated to show they are in favor of it.

Thirdly, he's gone out of his way to promote that he is in favor or the right to life and not pro abortion.

If you can't see how he might suggest he'd be open to compromise to entice conversation and some mutual dialogue... I would question how well you understand negotiation tactics.

 

[It_Is_My_Time]

I see the debate about abortion going on, and I thought about it before replying. I am really great at communication, I use it a lot in my life, and it is a passion, a hobby and a way to make money. I realized in the past, especially in this thread, I didn't do my best job of communicating. And I hope to fix that, and I apologize. I am super philosophical, I am a big-time day dreamer, and sometimes it is hard to communicate what is going on in my head to what others are living/doing/thinking. Most guys are doing their best to put food on the table for their kids, or finding a woman to have kids with, etc. These things have never been concerns for me, because I never planned to have kids or a wife, unless I was fully retired. I knew I could never do the working dad thing; I knew that very well when I was only 8 or 9 years old.

So, with all that laid out, I am going to do my best to take my daydreaming ideas and communicate them better.

Abortion - this is a dead issue. Even the GOP realizes it. Trump isn't going to increase anything on abortion, unless he is told to do so to give the DNC even more votes in 2026. The GOP realized after the 2022 failure that abortion is a dead issue. It is lost. Abortion rights will only expand in the USA. The way things are going, soon third trimester abortions will be legal coast to coast. It might take another 10 years, but it will happen.

And if Trump does lock down abortion, so the DNC roars to power in 2026 or 28, it will be reversed day one when the DNC gets back in power.

Women are the biggest voter base at about 54% of voters. Many women voters are single issue voters, you got it, abortion. And nothing will change their minds on this, ever. And the more women become independent of men (the more boomer women die out and are replaced with green haired, tattoo'ed, tacklebox faced 18 year old women voters), the more women will demand abortion rights and vote lock step for it.

There is only one way to stop this and that would be to get women out of the work force, back into the home, where they again feel safe and desire children. Abortion isn't a political issue, it is a spiritual issue, and you can't vote to bring the spirit back, it has to be done by might. Might makes right. As long as women are forced to work, they will demand abortion. And you are not going to roll this back until the system is turned over, the traitors are removed from power, and the system is reset.

 

[Samseau]

There is only one way to stop this and that would be to get women out of the work force, back into the home, where they again feel safe and desire children. Abortion isn't a political issue, it is a spiritual issue, and you can't vote to bring the spirit back, it has to be done by might.

No, it is done by God, and nothing else, which is why focusing on politics instead of the Church is a huge mistake. Fix the spirit and politics is fixed naturally.

That's why the lame saying "politics is downstream from culture" is largely true, but the term culture is largely nonsense. It's God, it's religion, which is the true backbone of any White culture.

Also, that's enough abortion talk, it's very off-topic. This thread is about PF.

 

[BrotherAugustine]

I don't think it's off-topic at all. The same people criticizing Patriot Front for not putting God first are also saying "if we don't let the the left kill babies then we won't get the power we want." It's beyond absurd.

 

[Get2choppaaa]

I don't think it's off-topic at all. The same people criticizing Patriot Front for not putting God first are also saying "if we don't let the the left kill babies then we won't get the power we want." It's beyond absurd.

You're making wild assumptions and distorting people's arguments with this claim. This is fairly disingenuous.

No one has argued we should let leftists kill babies. Infact that's the opposite of what people have said.

It's beginning to sound like you're using Alinksyite tactics to distort the points of others.

 

[Thomas More]

I'm thinking of that meme with the wonan from "The Office";
it's the same picture.

To me, the abortion issue in American politics is closely aligned with opinions on the Patriot Front. To me, you either agree with the Patriot Front talking points and oppose abortion, or you think the Patriot Front is a Fed honey trap and oppose abortion.

Everyone who is in favor of mandatory mask wearing and vaxxing says the 2020 election was legit, and is "pro-choice". Everybody who is attracted to the Patriot Front in any way is pro-life.

I really don't see how you would even think to separate the two issues.

 

[fokm]

You're making wild assumptions and distorting people's arguments with this claim.

I mean, I had it happen to me and was directly accused of lying.

Something about this topic/thread in particular really brings out the emotions.

 

[Rax Moscow]

Firstly, Talking and doing aren't the same thing.

Secondly, again, youre claiming someone is an abortionist when there is no action demonstrated to show they are in favor of it.

What is the claim here?
That Trump's words should not be believed?

Or only his words that his supporters don't like? Because he's doing some kind of 3D chess and really doesn't mean it when he says he wants "unlimited legal immigration" or abortion?

Trump may not be an "abortionist" himself, in that he is not the actual man performing abortions (it depends on the definition of the word IS! IS Trump doing abortions at this actual moment? NO!), but it doesn't make anything about this position right, smart, or good.

I don't think it's off-topic at all. The same people criticizing Patriot Front for not putting God first are also saying "if we don't let the the left kill babies then we won't get the power we want." It's beyond absurd.

There are threads for both Trump and abortion. It's an interesting discussion but I don't see how it belongs in this thread at all. But mods have still taken no action.

he's gone out of his way to promote that he is in favor or the right to life and not pro abortion.

Trump has no moral position on abortion whatsoever. In fact, if anything, he's always been in favor of abortion. When he ran for president in 2016, despite being rather independent if not old school Democratic for most of his life, he ran as a Republican. And he adopted many Republican Party positions by default. But I find it hard to believe he has any strong convictions on this whatsoever.

Just like Trump's religious beliefs. We do not know what is in a man's heart, but does Trump even attend church or pray? It is not right to judge his failings or successes in his faith, but does he even attempt to be a Christian himself, or only to appeal to Christian voters?

As a leadership move, this is terrible, both for America and for the souls of its children.
As a political move, in an immoral leviathan state like America, it's very smart.

Taking the position of doing a fake ban on abortion (putting a "time limit" well past the point where 99.9% of women get abortions is really just a way of enshrining the right to abortion into law, and putting some rules you have to follow) will get all the women on board while a few people on the right will be tricked that this was some type of "ban" although it doesn't prevent or stop abortions at all.

(In the rare case a woman didn't know she was pregnant halfway into her pregnancy, there is probably a legitimate argument for the life of the mother being at risk to some degree so she would qualify for an exception, but regardless we are talking about fringe cases).

It's the typical American way of dealing with problems: create a boogie man and attack that, while failing to ever solve the underlying problem. Do anything and everything to distract people from seeing the tip of the iceberg, while never touching the 90% of the problem below. It's the environmental equivalent of talking about cow farts and pretending you've adequately protected your air and water (and at the same time rolling back environmental laws so mega-globo-homo corporations can pollute freely).

 

[Samseau]

I don't think it's off-topic at all. The same people criticizing Patriot Front for not putting God first are also saying "if we don't let the the left kill babies then we won't get the power we want." It's beyond absurd.

No one criticized PF for not putting God first, they criticized PF for not mentioning God at all.

You haven't responded to my original arguments posted at the start of this thread with any reasoned arguments, just emotion. No quotes from scripture, saints, or examples of how the Church has operated for ages. The Church has always gently moved society away from sins and evils, not by fighting people head on. This is the point Christ makes of yielding to Evil until the enemy changes, or those who are watching come to side with Christians (which is what happened in Rome).