The Abortion Thread

fokm said:
I mean, I had it happen to me and was directly accused of lying.

Something about this topic/thread in particular really brings out the emotions.
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For future people who are confused here: this post was originally in a thread about Patriot Front. Abortion came up in that thread and a moderator moved my post here to keep things on topic there.

I've never posted in this thread before and no one has accused me of being a liar within the context of this thread.
 
I never really cared what the states' position is on abortion.

God's position is clear, and it's murder. One of the gravest sins, which unrepented leads you directly to hell.

The state also allows blasphemy. A grave sin.

The state allows and stimulates women selling their body and pornography. A grave sin.

The state finances "birth control" (the word....). A grave sin.

There is nothing to fight here, the worldly empire feeds on sin and sending people to hell. That's it's purpose, it's the snake.

If we all would accept God's will the worldly ruler would have no power over us.

We are free to follow God's will, or the worldly empire, the snake.

When I look at history in Europe, our countries have always been run by mafia families, which call themselves aristocracy, the game has always been money, power, sex, the same we see today. It was never better, the faith in God was always abused for worldly power struggle, like the reformation.

I think we can warn people that if they follow the states' commands they will probably go to hell.

But it's up to them what they decide to do.

I think sins are sacraments by the devil. Blasphemy, killing your baby, making porn, making money with doing nothing, stealing money by "tax" and inflation. It's all filth.

They did everything to kill Christ, will they ever try to protect an innocent child? Ofcourse not, the child should be hanged on the cross in their opinion.

The are possessed ofcourse by devilish influence, we can pray for them, tell them the truth, but that's about it.

If Christ would come to earth today, they would kill him in Maria's womb.
 
homersheineken said:
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Good grief, reversing Roe vs. Wade did nothing. From that article:

- "there were approximately 1 million abortions last year, a 10 percent increase over the number from 2020."

- "More than 160,000 people crossed state lines to end pregnancies in 2023"

- "more residents living in states without restrictions are getting abortions... driven primarily by improved access policies in those states, ...telehealth medicine, .. payment options, ...Medicaid coverage."

- "more people are choosing to end pregnancies through medication abortion — the two-drug combination of mifepristone and misoprostol."

-" medication abortion accounted for 63 percent of all US abortions in 2023"

- "researchers have found to be safe and with a very low risk of complications."

- " people may simply prefer to end pregnancies in the comfort of their own home"

-"it’s never been easier, faster, and cheaper to access abortion medication nationwide, even in red states with total abortion bans."

That's quite the plug at the end there. Tell me again what the purpose of those three branches of government are again? In this case the whole thing looks superfluous.
 
The only people who are red-pilled about abortion are those who are calling for the doctors and the parents to be penalized for murdering their child. Murdering your own child is worthy of death. The problem is, the "pro-life" rally gatekeeps this as an "extremist" position.

Here's the truth, if you are not penalized for doing something, then that something is already functionally legal. Without punishing the parents and doctors, abortion is the law of the land, with or without Roe v. Wade.

This is how the left has pushed so much degeneracy on so many issues in such a short time. They do not need laws to legalize their degeneracy, they only need to stop enforcing laws that would punish them for committing their degeneracy.
 
GodfatherPartTwo said:
Murdering your own child is worthy of death. The problem is, the "pro-life" rally gatekeeps this as an "extremist" position.
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What is crazy is that I think most of us don't realize that we are essentially gate-keeping.

I had to look up when this change in perspective happened. I'm not surprised it's tied to exactly when they pushed out midwives in the late 1800s and at the dawn of the medical system we now know (Rockefeller had a big hand in this).

All of our kids were born at home. My wife and I did tons of research on births/vaccines/medical system preparing for their birth. The propaganda in the late 1800s to make midwives seem like some scary backwoods witches is insane. The birthing system you see in the hospitals now are a complete scam, designed to push women into using drugs and inducing delivery. The effect these drugs have on women almost always causes conditions that makes it necessary to cut out the baby. Everything is driven by fear. Everything is for "the safety of your baby". They are literally creating the emergency. It is why the US is sky high in C-sections. I won't even get into all the problems that arise for babies that don't pass through the vaginal canal.

This convinces me even more we live in some bizarre death cult, hospitals and the medical system are not what we think they are, they are intimately tied to abortion.

Planned Parenthood is quite proud of this origin point:

"Follow the journey of abortion law in the United States — from criminalization in the late 1800s to legalization in the early 1970s

In 1847, doctors banded together to form the AMA. It became the male-dominated authority on medical practices. The AMA scrutinized reproductive health care workers, like midwives and nurses, and the obstetric services they provided were phased out. "
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Northumber said:
Good grief, reversing Roe vs. Wade did nothing. From that article:

- "there were approximately 1 million abortions last year, a 10 percent increase over the number from 2020."

- "More than 160,000 people crossed state lines to end pregnancies in 2023"

- "more residents living in states without restrictions are getting abortions... driven primarily by improved access policies in those states, ...telehealth medicine, .. payment options, ...Medicaid coverage."

- "more people are choosing to end pregnancies through medication abortion — the two-drug combination of mifepristone and misoprostol."

-" medication abortion accounted for 63 percent of all US abortions in 2023"

- "researchers have found to be safe and with a very low risk of complications."

- " people may simply prefer to end pregnancies in the comfort of their own home"

-"it’s never been easier, faster, and cheaper to access abortion medication nationwide, even in red states with total abortion bans."

That's quite the plug at the end there. Tell me again what the purpose of those three branches of government are again? In this case the whole thing looks superfluous.
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Whose having those abortions? The usual, blacks and browns? Without more data to break this down it's impossible to make good conclusions, however I can make some predictions...

- The massive amount of sex slaves brought into the USA from Latin America are the ones being forced to have abortions, driving up abortion numbers

- The younger generation of women believe in abortion more than any other right, including freedom of speech, so repealing Roe v Wade doesn't matter as long as women vote

- Is "Plan B" being counted in these stats? Because I find that misleading, Plan B isn't necessarily an abortion.

The abortion situation in America shows that politics are pointless without addressing the spiritual situation.
 
Samseau said:
Whose having those abortions?
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I tried to gather more info. It looks like there are lots of recent news articles out there now that the Guttmacher report for 2023 is out.

Here's an article from npr (they only thinly veil their exuberance about the increase)


They think the number is actually even higher than what is officially reported due to people getting medication from a friend and/or getting medication from Mexico.

Samseau said:
The usual, blacks and browns? Without more data to break this down it's impossible to make good conclusions, however I can make some predictions...

- The massive amount of sex slaves brought into the USA from Latin America are the ones being forced to have abortions, driving up abortion numbers
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Interesting. Considering there are other stats out there suggesting young people are having less sex in general you would think abortions should go down. Something like what you proposed would explain the disparity.

Here is the Guttmacher report:


There are some general graphs and you can drill down to the state level. I haven't been able to dig much further than that (race, illegals, etc)

They do highlight how much interstate travel for abortions has increased. The sex trade could be hidden within that statistic, accounting for some of the apparent increase.

Samseau said:
- Is "Plan B" being counted in these stats? Because I find that misleading, Plan B isn't necessarily an abortion.
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I could be wrong but it doesn't sound like it. I looked up Plan-B and it sounds different (it makes use of a hormone levonorgestrel to stop the release of the egg to the ovaries). They all reference mifepristone and misoprostol.


Samseau said:
- The younger generation of women believe in abortion more than any other right, including freedom of speech, so repealing Roe v Wade doesn't matter as long as women vote
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The intensity of these people is insane to me. It seems like they are just getting more ardent. A quote from the npr article: Dr. Anitra Beasley, an OB-GYN and professor at Baylor College of Medicine in Houston:

"It's really important to realize that the increase in abortion access [despite restrictions] is not an accident," she says. "It's a lot of people working really, really, really hard in order to make sure that abortion is still accessible to people who need it.
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Just reading through the posts.

So the US has laws against interstate trafficking of children but not against interstate travelling to a Tophet to put an unborn child through the fires?
 
Samseau said:
Wow, never even heard of these. Just more evil than ever before. They don't even need clinics anymore.
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Looks like the two abortion pills are taken in conjunction. Mifepristone they say "stops the pregnancy from growing." It messes with the hormone called progesterone. They don't talk much about what it actually does to the baby but I do know progesterone is used to build the uterus and also keeps the developing baby stay attached to the lining. They then take misoprostol to bring about uterus contractions to empty their uterus.


More from npr:

Under current FDA prescribing rules, medication can be used to end a pregnancy until 10 weeks of pregnancy, and it can be prescribed through a virtual appointment without affecting the medication's safety or efficacy.
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It sounds like they are doing this over zoom. It reminds me of the ongoing porn epidemic. It's hidden but incredibly worse because we can do it so privately and avoid shame. I'm sure the same is true for procuring an abortion. You don't have to embarrassingly sit in an office around strangers. You don't have to face a person. It's very impersonal, ....easier.

Here is more about how this "telehealth" works from another site:


In a telehealth abortion, the patient typically completes an online questionnaire to assess (1) confirmation of pregnancy, (2) gestational age and (3) blood type. If determined eligible by a remote clinician, the patient is mailed the medications. This model does not require an ultrasound for pregnancy
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It's been a while since I've looked at what the other side is writing/saying. They will die on that hill in order to kill children. Very sad:

From that Guttmacher report:

"We hope that this data can prove useful to providers, advocates and policymakers who have been working tirelessly to improve access to abortion in the face of unprecedented challenges.”

Kelly Baden, vice president for public policy at Guttmacher. “We must also acknowledge the role that abortion funds and other support networks have played in helping people overcome the numerous financial and logistical barriers that traveling for abortion care entails. Their heroic efforts often make the difference in whether someone obtains an abortion or is forced to remain pregnant. "
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"Fox News Poll: Record number say abortion should be legal
7 in 10 favor allowing use of the abortion medication Mifepristone"


After covid I don't really believe any poll or statistic anymore. However, at the very least it's informative in terms of what kind of narrative is being formed and peddled.

I wonder which drug company sells these abortion pills....

"Pfizer's CEO Albert Bourla was among the more than 200 pharmaceutical company executives who signed the letter after a federal judge's controversial ruling on mifepristone"

 
Northumber said:
"Fox News Poll: Record number say abortion should be legal
7 in 10 favor allowing use of the abortion medication Mifepristone"


After covid I don't really believe any poll or statistic anymore. However, at the very least it's informative in terms of what kind of narrative is being formed and peddled.

I wonder which drug company sells these abortion pills....

"Pfizer's CEO Albert Bourla was among the more than 200 pharmaceutical company executives who signed the letter after a federal judge's controversial ruling on mifepristone"

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America is going to abort itself out of existence.
 
GodfatherPartTwo said:
This is how the left has pushed so much degeneracy on so many issues in such a short time. They do not need laws to legalize their degeneracy, they only need to stop enforcing laws that would punish them for committing their degeneracy.
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This is the essence of the "make abortion legal" discussion.

It's completely useless to have all this legal talk. Killing your own baby in the womb is legal now as it is not enforced and it's actively promoted.

Not enforcing a law is effectively making it "legal". I don't see how people are getting riled up about it. The war has been lost already.

E.g. when in San Francisco they don't enforce the law for thievery under 1000 dollars, then thievery under 1000 dollars is effectively legal. Same in this case.
 
paternos said:
This is the essence of the "make abortion legal" discussion.

It's completely useless to have all this legal talk. Killing your own baby in the womb is legal now as it is not enforced and it's actively promoted.

Not enforcing a law is effectively making it "legal". I don't see how people are getting riled up about it. The war has been lost already.

E.g. when in San Francisco they don't enforce the law for thievery under 1000 dollars, then thievery under 1000 dollars is effectively legal. Same in this case.
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Yes, the legal talk is both a red herring and designed to incense the left to mobilize and vote harder against the right-wing. They have been brainwashed into believing legal immunity from murdering their child in the womb is a fundamental human right. This is the level of debasement and insanity that sin can wreak in your mind as you rebel against God.

Fortunately, God will enact Justice, and their sin will find them out. Unfortunately, they are destroying any hope for the future of their country in real time, and the conversation will shift to them having the right to abort your kids, once they realize that they are the ones dying off and that only religious folks are having kids anymore.
 
@GodfatherPartTwo You say it well:
They have been brainwashed into believing legal immunity from murdering their child in the womb is a fundamental human right.
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They don't believe in divine law and they don't believe the murder will haunt them the rest of their lives. (which is the reality for most people, I met 2 women who did an abortion and both are suffering from it, wondering what could have been)

All in all God gave us the freedom to choose. Live or death.
And in the end it's an individual responsibility.

And I'm also thinking, what has the state got to do with this? What is the value of their worldly laws? I mean it has almost nothing to do with divine law today. It's in many cases not even a reflection.

These are the laws of godless humanism, a modern faith made by and for billionaires and the ruling class.

Not the laws of God.

So what do we expect? How can the worldly system create anything good?

In this holy week, also today they would kill Jesus on the cross. Which would be all good according to their laws.

Their laws are not my laws. God gave us a law and that's the one we need to adhere too.

What's new? The rulers always wanted to create laws that make them look good, make them look a lot more "human" than God. More liberal. More accepting.

I think a big mistake is that many take the worldly law seriously. As if that is a fair law. A divine law.

So summarizing, I don't really care what the rulers do, or how they will twist the laws to serve their interests.

Deep down we need to realize that their laws have no basis at all. And are absolutely no guiding principle for a Good life.
 
paternos said:
Deep down we need to realize that their laws have no basis at all. And are absolutely no guiding principle for a Good life.
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Romans 13 speaks to this. It is by God's ordaining that any worldly government is given any authority at all. The government is meant to curb human evil, such as murder, theft, fraud, adultery, etc.

However, Psalm 2 warns, that rulers should kiss the Son lest He destroy them in His wrath. God will remove any government that abuses His authority, and always in His proper time.

One thing to take solace in, just because they enshrine their sin in law, does not mean you have to sin with them. When God's judgement comes, you and I may be preserved.
 
GodfatherPartTwo said:
Romans 13 speaks to this. It is by God's ordaining that any worldly government is given any authority at all. The government is meant to curb human evil, such as murder, theft, fraud, adultery, etc.

However, Psalm 2 warns, that rulers should kiss the Son lest He destroy them in His wrath. God will remove any government that abuses His authority, and always in His proper time.

One thing to take solace in, just because they enshrine their sin in law, does not mean you have to sin with them. When God's judgement comes, you and I may be preserved.
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This is an important quote from Paul, as in Church I see it often coming up, praying for our leaders. Somehow I always found it strange. How does it correspond with the Jesus whipping the money changers from the temple?

Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.
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I think we need to read this in the time.

In ancient Israel, authority was initially tribal and decentralized. Later, a monarchical system was established with figures like Saul, David, and Solomon. These kings had considerable power, often combining political, military, and religious roles. However, they were also subject to divine law.

Usury, blasphemy, baby killing would be a breakage of divine law. Meaning death. No-one is bigger than God.

The bible often show tensions and conflicts between these various forms of authority. Prophets in the Old Testament frequently challenged kings, and in the New Testament, Jesus and early Christians often came into conflict with the religious authorities and Roman political powers.

Paul killed Christians under the authorities, until he received the grace of faith and became the haunted by the authorities. Paul challenged the worldly authorities.
 
paternos said:
Somehow I always found it strange. How does it correspond with the Jesus whipping the money changers from the temple?
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I wouldn't put Romans 13 in the same category as Jesus whipping the money changers in the temple, those are different contexts.

paternos said:
I think we need to read this in the time.
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Keep in mind Paul wrote Romans 13 to the church in Rome. He was well aware of how degenerate the Roman culture was and how oppressive the government was. He is not saying that we take everything (especially sin) lying down. If the day comes when the government forces you to rebel against God, then the right thing to do is obey God rather than men.
 
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