The Reaction To "Game" & Other Past Vile Behaviour - After Enlightenment - Thread

[Wutang]

Yes, that is Bodi. He was always one of the most honest writers on this stuff.

I actually met him in Warsaw and he advised me to get into coding (which I didn't do). I met Krauser too (he was hitting the mall to do some sets). I found something a little sad about Krasuer compared with others because while he seems to have left this whole PUA stuff behind (to a degree) he seems to not have found a

Around the same time Roosh converted and other game guys from his era were talking more about Christianity, I recall Krauser writing a favorable review of a C.S. Lewis book and talking about the negative results of the secularization of society without indicating that he himself had interest in converting. I looked at his website this week and it seems like he's gone more towards the nihilism route. It's an interesting case study to compare where he is now compared to someone like Roosh or Victor Pride.

 

[Blade Runner]

Men burn out energy wise and when the mental energy for sex (and associated activities) dwindles there needs to be a higher purpose in the second half of life, that seems pretty universal even for secular men.

It's some loss of energy but more the realization that ROI becomes a bigger deal. The nihilism can come from anything red pill, since you need to understand the meaning of loss, suffering, or challenge with God as the one you can trust, when times are hard. That especially is true when dealing with women, to be honest, since having an expectation that they will or will not do something, or are something that they aren't, will crush you. I'm being generic there so as not to elicit calls from the "black pill" crowd.

I think the biggest issue I've come to fully understand now, which makes things both worse and better, is that you really do need a woman that "chooses you". That brings up a whole other host of issues in a world where overall quality is very low and hard to find.

 

[loremipsum]

It's some loss of energy but more the realization that ROI becomes a bigger deal. The nihilism can come from anything red pill, since you need to understand the meaning of loss, suffering, or challenge with God as the one you can trust, when times are hard. That especially is true when dealing with women, to be honest, since having an expectation that they will or will not do something, or are something that they aren't, will crush you. I'm being generic there so as not to elicit calls from the "black pill" crowd.

I think the biggest issue I've come to fully understand now, which makes things both worse and better, is that you really do need a woman that "chooses you". That brings up a whole other host of issues in a world where overall quality is very low and hard to find.

I remember vaguely Roosh hinting in some old article that what if game was merely a way to find a woman who chose you first, as in the techniques etc. are merely for your own psyche and its hard to fuck things up so to speak when a woman really likes you. So it's a placebo in a way once you learn IOIs by heart.

 

[Blade Runner]

I remember vaguely Roosh hinting in some old article that what if game was merely a way to find a woman who chose you first, as in the techniques etc. are merely for your own psyche and its hard to fuck things up so to speak when a woman really likes you. So it's a placebo in a way once you learn IOIs by heart.

That's a good point. The problem is one of "game" being mostly centered on short term encounters, where women's "feels" are particularly fleeting or related to low IQ/emotional states. As social interaction and family connections became less common over the years, and being around for longer periods of time to feel this out went away, you had the proxy of short term game, yes, but it won't last in most cases.

A lot of the things for women and men are similar, in terms of attraction and what will establish connection, but where they differ is that for men we are less flexible on the physical appearance issues. The good thing for women is that unlike them, we don't have unreasonable expectations that deviate that far from a similar SMV, while they do and it shows now in the modern experiment. That's why they need to both focus on men over longer terms to respect and love them, and appreciate the protection and provisioning. It isn't spoken of enough, the degree to which women can easily adapt to a man and his lead, while a man obviously isn't going to get anything to "work" if she isn't young, or if she's fat, etc (most of modernity).

 

[JR5]

Tucker Max: "I got scammed out of $20 million, was about to fly private air"

https://www.tuckermax.com/the-scribe-media-collapse-and-recovery/

lol

 

[Blade Runner]

Tucker Max: "I got scammed out of $20 million, was about to fly private air"

https://www.tuckermax.com/the-scribe-media-collapse-and-recovery/

lol

TL;DR?

 

[JR5]

TL;DR?

"I got scammed out of $20 million, was about to fly private air" was the TDLR

 

[Lawrence87]

I never got into the whole "game" thing, Roosh came onto my radar after his, and my conversion to Orthodoxy.

From what I gather, it probably has a few small elements to it that could benefit even a Christian man who is seeking a spouse. For instance some understanding of what a woman is attracted to, so that you can act accordingly.

It doesn't matter if you are in church, the women will still expect you to initiate an interaction. And they will still be put off by neediness.

But beyond generalities (that every man ought to know) I don't see how it's going to benefit meeting women in a church context. In that context you have to show her you're dependable by turning up to church every week. Show her you can be a good father by having good interactions with the kids there. Show her you're a decent man by becoming a well integrated and respected member of the community.

In a bar, you can kinda weedle your way into bed with a girl by convincing her you're someone else and acting in ways to seduce her. But its never going to work in the context of church. She's going to see you on a weekly basis in the context of a community and she will assess your suitability based on that. And you can't really fake that.

So at the end of the day, the basic things apply. Such as not being a creep or a simp, being confident and keeping yourself in good shape, but the context and aim are so different that I don't really see the necessity to know game to get a girl in church.

 

[scary_robot_music]

I never got into the whole "game" thing, Roosh came onto my radar after his, and my conversion to Orthodoxy.

From what I gather, it probably has a few small elements to it that could benefit even a Christian man who is seeking a spouse. For instance some understanding of what a woman is attracted to, so that you can act accordingly.

It doesn't matter if you are in church, the women will still expect you to initiate an interaction. And they will still be put off by neediness.

But beyond generalities (that every man ought to know) I don't see how it's going to benefit meeting women in a church context. In that context you have to show her you're dependable by turning up to church every week. Show her you can be a good father by having good interactions with the kids there. Show her you're a decent man by becoming a well integrated and respected member of the community.

In a bar, you can kinda weedle your way into bed with a girl by convincing her you're someone else and acting in ways to seduce her. But its never going to work in the context of church. She's going to see you on a weekly basis in the context of a community and she will assess your suitability based on that. And you can't really fake that.

So at the end of the day, the basic things apply. Such as not being a creep or a simp, being confident and keeping yourself in good shape, but the context and aim are so different that I don't really see the necessity to know game to get a girl in church.

To me, game is just a combination of 1) presenting the most confident version of yourself and 2) understanding women and how to fulfill their emotional needs. Both of those, in a way that creates attraction in women. Works equally well at church or in a bar. I've been married to my devout Catholic wife for well over a decade now and we have several small children. I still consciously use game on her in the "what would Roosh or Heartiste do" sense multiple times daily.

In my opinion if you don't have game you might be able to stay married to a good Christian woman, but your marriage probably won't be a lot of fun. "Difficult and a lot of hard work" is how guys with no game invariably describe marriage. That is, most husbands, the same guys who complain about a lack of sex in marriage, their wives not respecting them, and so on. I don't have to deal with any of that in my marriage, thanks to game.

Game often gets confused for "tricking as many women as possible into meaningless sex." It's not that, although it can be used for that. Game is like a firearm in the sense that there's nothing inherently wrong with it and it can be used for good or for evil.

 

[Wutang]

I actually found that lots of game concepts is useful for non-romantic relationships as well. Learning about the idea of frame from the Mystery Method book really clarified why some guys just seem more dominant in certain social situations (which of course also has applications for appearing attractive to women). I already had some intuitions about why this is but seeing Mystery break it down in writing in his system where just clarified what social mechanism was at work. I started seeing how some people were able to get others to "jump through hoops" (another Mystery Method idea) and how it raised their status within an interaction.

 

[scary_robot_music]

I actually found that lots of game concepts is useful for non-romantic relationships as well. Learning about the idea of frame from the Mystery Method book really clarified why some guys just seem more dominant in certain social situations (which of course also has applications for appearing attractive to women). I already had some intuitions about why this is but seeing Mystery break it down in writing in his system where just clarified what social mechanism was at work. I started seeing how some people were able to get others to "jump through hoops" (another Mystery Method idea) and how it raised their status within an interaction.

Also absolutely true. Like I said above, game is not the same thing as tricking women into fornication, although it can be used for that. You make a great point that you can use game in social situations that have nothing to do with creating attraction in women, although when you do that you'll often unintentionally create attraction in women anyway.

 

[Blade Runner]

But beyond generalities (that every man ought to know) I don't see how it's going to benefit meeting women in a church context.

Yes, it doesn't, because the same rules apply and mostly in modernity, especially to women, church is just another type of social outlet. When you don't have a high value of what the point of the community and church is, you will be way more inclined to just seek out what your fancy is outside of it - since that's most of your week and far more of your options (which are too many for modern women). Instead of putting real values as important, they'd rather just try for tingles and then bend men to their will (the religion, after the fact, showing it's not all that important). As we know, that's the general recipe for alpha widowing or "where are the good men?".

Game is like a firearm in the sense that there's nothing inherently wrong with it and it can be used for good or for evil.

Game is just the modern, individual application of what society used to do for men. It's a particular skill set that has to be gained to counter female chaos, which was a societal project before. Recognizing that, it tells you a lot about women, and what happens when they aren't restricted, which is basically the point of this forum. Every man has a range of "what he can get" - like the general set point theory of working out - but you can optimize that or increase probabilities that you maximize the range, vs minimize it, if you understand the way to conduct yourself for this maximum. It's generally stupid because it's both a time and energy sink, and also a potential constant stressor if you aren't an indifferent sociopath, in which case you just don't care = win. The ultimate is the "I simultaneously/actually care about people but am outcome independent", which is the Jesus Christ example. Not to make excuses, but we are a little (lot?) more in the dark about the secret will of the Father, and have more frailties, sin all the time, etc.

 

[Samseau]

Yes, it doesn't, because the same rules apply and mostly in modernity, especially to women, church is just another type of social outlet. When you don't have a high value of what the point of the community and church is, you will be way more inclined to just seek out what your fancy is outside of it - since that's most of your week and far more of your options (which are too many for modern women). Instead of putting real values as important, they'd rather just try for tingles and then bend men to their will (the religion, after the fact, showing it's not all that important). As we know, that's the general recipe for alpha widowing or "where are the good men?".

Game is just the modern, individual application of what society used to do for men. It's a particular skill set that has to be gained to counter female chaos, which was a societal project before. Recognizing that, it tells you a lot about women, and what happens when they aren't restricted, which is basically the point of this forum. Every man has a range of "what he can get" - like the general set point theory of working out - but you can optimize that or increase probabilities that you maximize the range, vs minimize it, if you understand the way to conduct yourself for this maximum. It's generally stupid because it's both a time and energy sink, and also a potential constant stressor if you aren't an indifferent sociopath, in which case you just don't care = win. The ultimate is the "I simultaneously/actually care about people but am outcome independent", which is the Jesus Christ example. Not to make excuses, but we are a little (lot?) more in the dark about the secret will of the Father, and have more frailties, sin all the time, etc.

Orthodox Churches are majority male, because in our "freedom of religion" culture women will seek out whatever religion or church makes them feel good. They will judge what "truth" is, and that is usually a rock and roll Church where people can have fun and smile with each other. Zero substance and of course a recipe for disaster down the road.

It really makes me wonder if most women are just incapable of spirituality in the same way men are.

In the Roman times you had many Gods dedicated to various female deities, such as Venus, and the temples were run by women. They all went extinct. I see a similar thing occurring right now in the "West." Only male run Churches have any staying power and the women will be brought into this frame whether they like it or not, since that is where most daughters will eventually be raised.

So the solution in the current age is to keep going to Church, but don't get your hopes up about meeting a woman in Church. Chances are high you'll need to date outside the Church, find a woman who loves you, and then gently persuade her to convert. God has done this before and He will do it again.

 

[Wutang]

Typically women have been more involved with church than men but I been seeing in recent data on zoomers that it's flipped with zoomer men being more inclined to identify with Christianity when compared to zoomer women. Seems like a black pill for the Christian guys that refuse to date anyone over 25.

 

[Blade Runner]

It really makes me wonder if most women are just incapable of spirituality in the same way men are.

In the later stages of our forum I think it's pretty clear that as it works out on a population level, at least now, it seems 98-99% of women don't have a prayer (pun intended, lol) to be responsible or accountable (agency), given all the influences or outs that they are given. That should tell you a lot. If M:F ratio were low, there'd still be a solid number, even if a minority, of men who were faithful to God and their wives. I mean, we just saw that happen from 1950 to now, where yes there are a lot of douche bags, but I know countless men who did it all the right way.

Typically women have been more involved with church than men but I been seeing in recent data on zoomers

I was listening recently to an orthodox priest who I like and enjoy listening to, regarding the readings from Ephesians, noting the "controversial" statements on husbands and wives, yes the one read specifically in the marriage service. All I'll say is that he is a Gen X, not a boomer, but on this topic he seemed to go pretty far out of his way to say that women "having options" and thus being more responsible now (but St. Paul isn't writing to us now, or else he claimed women might get more mention, since it's mostly directed at the people at the time, where it was all men regarding power and authority, obviously) was a good thing. I don't know how this sharp of a guy can claim that in good faith, since he's very aware of the problems of this culture and modernity, in general. I've also heard all sorts of ideas that "throw a bone" to women regarding how important they are in historical christianity. I'm not here to tell you that they aren't important or don't have their place, but the thing we seem furthest from these days with women is taking the Mother of God as an example of behavior or conduct. Obviously no man is anywhere near Christ, but the fact that you don't even get a mention about how far modern women are from (that they should emulate) the Theotokos is a joke. What's more, female involvement in the Church was present, important and even critical in keeping the people together and the traditions precisely because they weren't offered all of these other things to do. What's my point? Men are in the church in greater numbers now, and if Wutang is right it shows you how much more damaging it is to let women off the reservation; they'll even leave the church. It's amazing if you actually think of how bad it is and hardly gets a single mention. I've been following this closely for over 15 years now and to my amazement it's gotten significantly worse every 4-5 year period. It's out of control and the priests basically just throw their hands up in indifference. It's pretty amazing to watch. In their defense, it could be so screwed up everywhere they are overwhelmed. But are we really populating the church with the next generation? Maybe some convert churches (and God bless them). It seems like a critically important point to address. I'm convinced at this point they don't have a clue about population dynamics, or where the "system" is headed. One said, "Well, the young men are coming back into the church so eventually the women will follow them." I mean, sure ... but in what way are women following men in the last 20 years, my guy? By waiting for them at age 33-35 for a bailout? It seems very presumptuous to me.

 

[Samseau]

One said, "Well, the young men are coming back into the church so eventually the women will follow them." I mean, sure ... but in what way are women following men in the last 20 years, my guy? By waiting for them at age 33-35 for a bailout? It seems very presumptuous to me.

I think most of the men coming into the Church will eventually get young foreign wives, either Asian or South American Hispanic. In the same way God built his Church without most of the Talmudic Jews, God will also leave behind the cradle Christian women who reject the Church.

The men are probably the more critical component anyways, they provide the labor and clergy, all you need is wives from virtually anywhere and you can make babies. Race purity was only relevant for Mosaic Law.

 

[Australia Sucks]

Race purity was only relevant for Mosaic Law.

Try telling to certain people on this forum who put the woman's race above all other factors when looking for a woman.

 

[Shaquilleoatmeal]

Like I said above, game is not the same thing as tricking women into fornication

No woman is “tricked into fornication.” Woman who fornicate already were open to doing it and had no intention of saving themselves for marriage. Thinking a woman who is saving herself for marriage is “tricked into fornication” via game sounds like whiteknighting for harlots.

 

[PurpleUrkel]

Race purity was only relevant for Mosaic Law.

This is an oversimplification of the issue and not entirely true.

Try telling to certain people on this forum who put the woman's race above all other factors when looking for a woman.

I wouldn't say race is put above "all" other factors. However, race should be of significant importance because if a man's wife gives birth to children that do not look like him, that marriage has a higher likelihood of failure due to an existential (and often times unconscious) deep-seated resentment on the part of the man towards his wife's "winning" genetics. This is why I give JD Vance's marriage 10 years tops. Just look at "his" children, they look nothing like him. This has the potential to be deeply humiliating to a man, it's almost as if JD's wife had children with another (Indian) man.

This is the same primal psychology as men who marry women with children from a previous relationship... every time the man looks into her children's eyes he will see the eyes of a man who had her when she was younger, hotter, and probably more fun to be with, which again, over a long enough period of time will breed resentment (and this deep-seated resentment is also why step children are 100 times more likely to be abused than biological children). In both cases, the triggering aspects of male resentment towards his wife's child (and hence his wife) starts with the non-congruent physical appearance of said child (whether it is biologically his or not). This is not always the case of course and there are plenty of mixed race success stories, but personally I would be unwilling to risk it. Besides, the white race is being systematically disappeared via JQ multiculturalism and I would prefer not to be an active participant in the further destruction of my own people.

 

[Lawrence87]

Orthodox Churches are majority male, because in our "freedom of religion" culture women will seek out whatever religion or church makes them feel good. They will judge what "truth" is, and that is usually a rock and roll Church where people can have fun and smile with each other. Zero substance and of course a recipe for disaster down the road.

It really makes me wonder if most women are just incapable of spirituality in the same way men are.

In the Roman times you had many Gods dedicated to various female deities, such as Venus, and the temples were run by women. They all went extinct. I see a similar thing occurring right now in the "West." Only male run Churches have any staying power and the women will be brought into this frame whether they like it or not, since that is where most daughters will eventually be raised.

So the solution in the current age is to keep going to Church, but don't get your hopes up about meeting a woman in Church. Chances are high you'll need to date outside the Church, find a woman who loves you, and then gently persuade her to convert. God has done this before and He will do it again.

I think men will seek spirituality in terms of trying to find the truth, sometimes this will lead them to become atheists (for a time at least) but it is usually from a place of genuine seeking, if they become bothered about questions of spirituality. Women seek spirituality in terms of conformity to cultural norms. In the west women doing Yoga, Tarot and Wicca etc is basically the norm so thats what they do.