The Fat People Thread

[Rainy]

Over the holidays I was at a cabin for a few nights with family, some of which were my massively overweight sister and her family. I've spoken about her before but this was the first time being under the same roof as her for an extended period of time.

For the record she's about 350lbs on a 5'3" frame. Husband has packed it on. Two of the three kids, all under 10, have bellies and love handles.

To my amazement I didn't come away with compassion for a thyroid problem. Instead I came away thinking the addiction to food is no different than a severe alcoholic needing their fix. Of course, switching to eating healthy is far easier than quitting booze. This was just one day. I don't eat breakfast. Whatever. But while I was having my coffee they were downing french toast, cereal and donuts. I also don't eat lunch. But they wanted to stop and between sister/husband they killed a large pizza themselves, and ate the leftover fries/chicken nuggets from the kids. By 4 they were downing the cocktails. Then snacking- chips, crackers while cooking their pasta dinner. Next morning with an early checkout, instead of grabbing something on the road driving home they door dashed McDonald's. Just couldn't wait? None of the other families felt the need. Should tell you something.

But they are obsessed with food. And I have noticed this with extremely overweight people. As soon as one meal is done they are thinking about the next. My wife commented the entire week she didn't see anyone in that family eat a vegetable. And there is just no shame in what they eat. Worse aspect is they are passing this onto their children. That's child abuse.

I have a feeling my sister is gonna get type 2 diabetes if she doesn't have it already, if not more serious health issues. Also triple jabbed. Recently got on adderall too which can't be good. Her husband caters to her every need but I don't think he's computed this road is gonna lead to him being a widower and raising the kids alone.

 

[cosine]

Over the holidays I was at a cabin for a few night with family, some of which were my massively overweight sister and her family. I've spoken about her before but this was the first time being under the same roof as her for an extended period of time.

For the record she's about 350lbs on a 5'3" frame. Husband has packed it on. Two of the three kids, all under 10, have bellies and love handles.

To my amazement I didn't come away with compassion for a thyroid problem. Instead I came away thinking the addiction to food is no different than a severe alcoholic needing their fix. Of course, switching to eating healthy is far easier than quitting booze. This was just one day. I don't eat breakfast. Whatever. But while I was having my coffee they were downing french toast, cereal and donuts. I also don't eat lunch. But they wanted to stop and between sister/husband they killed a large pizza themselves, and ate the leftover fries/chicken nuggets from the kids. By 4 they were downing the cocktails. Then snacking- chips, crackers while cooking their pasta dinner. Next morning with an early checkout, instead of grabbing something on the road driving home they door dashed McDonald's. Just couldn't wait? None of the other families felt the need. Should tell you something.

But they are obsessed with food. And I have noticed this with extremely overweight people. As soon as one meal is done they are thinking about the next. My wife commented the entire week she didn't see anyone in that family eat a vegetable. And there is just no shame in what they eat. Worse aspect is they are passing this onto their children. That's child abuse.

I have a feeling my sister is gonna get type 2 diabetes if she doesn't have it already, if not more serious health issues. Also triple jabbed. Recently got on adderall too which can't be good. Her husband caters to her every need but I don't think he's computed this road is gonna lead to him having a widower and raising the kids alone.

Really sorry to hear that.

A friend who got over alcoholism ~15 years ago is still involved in AA. He said it's a 12-step process... step 1 is admitting there is a problem. Kind of difficult to get anywhere without that.

Have you tried asking some gentle question, like how they are navigating the healthcare world? As a way to segway into health generally? Or, have you tried "involving" yourself by cooking a decently healthy breakfast like eggs?

My fiance and I try to get her nephews involved in rock climbing and other activities that I/we are good at. We figure that's a healthy outlet they can get excited about and maybe end up with reasons to be decently healthy.

 

[thinkreadwritecode]

Over the holidays I was at a cabin for a few nights with family, some of which were my massively overweight sister and her family. I've spoken about her before but this was the first time being under the same roof as her for an extended period of time.

For the record she's about 350lbs on a 5'3" frame. Husband has packed it on. Two of the three kids, all under 10, have bellies and love handles.

To my amazement I didn't come away with compassion for a thyroid problem. Instead I came away thinking the addiction to food is no different than a severe alcoholic needing their fix. Of course, switching to eating healthy is far easier than quitting booze. This was just one day. I don't eat breakfast. Whatever. But while I was having my coffee they were downing french toast, cereal and donuts. I also don't eat lunch. But they wanted to stop and between sister/husband they killed a large pizza themselves, and ate the leftover fries/chicken nuggets from the kids. By 4 they were downing the cocktails. Then snacking- chips, crackers while cooking their pasta dinner. Next morning with an early checkout, instead of grabbing something on the road driving home they door dashed McDonald's. Just couldn't wait? None of the other families felt the need. Should tell you something.

But they are obsessed with food. And I have noticed this with extremely overweight people. As soon as one meal is done they are thinking about the next. My wife commented the entire week she didn't see anyone in that family eat a vegetable. And there is just no shame in what they eat. Worse aspect is they are passing this onto their children. That's child abuse.

I have a feeling my sister is gonna get type 2 diabetes if she doesn't have it already, if not more serious health issues. Also triple jabbed. Recently got on adderall too which can't be good. Her husband caters to her every need but I don't think he's computed this road is gonna lead to him being a widower and raising the kids alone.

But they drank diet soda, right? Right? I told myself I would never date or be with an overweight woman in the future, if nothing else, because the food bill would be overwhelming. I had a big friend once and when he came over for dinner he ate all the food and what would have been leftovers. It was as annoying as the time a heavy drinker friend came over and drank all our beer because he was accustomed to opening the next right after he finished one. I've seen obese girls at work happily trudge into the breakroom with their big fast-food bags and then scarf the food down while cursing and being generally unpleasant.

I sometimes wonder what the world would be like if everyone was nutritionally healthy.

 

[staddlelateen]

Over the holidays I was at a cabin for a few nights with family, some of which were my massively overweight sister and her family. I've spoken about her before but this was the first time being under the same roof as her for an extended period of time.

For the record she's about 350lbs on a 5'3" frame. Husband has packed it on. Two of the three kids, all under 10, have bellies and love handles.

To my amazement I didn't come away with compassion for a thyroid problem. Instead I came away thinking the addiction to food is no different than a severe alcoholic needing their fix. Of course, switching to eating healthy is far easier than quitting booze. This was just one day. I don't eat breakfast. Whatever. But while I was having my coffee they were downing french toast, cereal and donuts. I also don't eat lunch. But they wanted to stop and between sister/husband they killed a large pizza themselves, and ate the leftover fries/chicken nuggets from the kids. By 4 they were downing the cocktails. Then snacking- chips, crackers while cooking their pasta dinner. Next morning with an early checkout, instead of grabbing something on the road driving home they door dashed McDonald's. Just couldn't wait? None of the other families felt the need. Should tell you something.

But they are obsessed with food. And I have noticed this with extremely overweight people. As soon as one meal is done they are thinking about the next. My wife commented the entire week she didn't see anyone in that family eat a vegetable. And there is just no shame in what they eat. Worse aspect is they are passing this onto their children. That's child abuse.

I have a feeling my sister is gonna get type 2 diabetes if she doesn't have it already, if not more serious health issues. Also triple jabbed. Recently got on adderall too which can't be good. Her husband caters to her every need but I don't think he's computed this road is gonna lead to him being a widower and raising the kids alone.

Gluttony is primarily a spiritual and moral issue that manifests itself physically. It's a symptom of disorder or inordinate concupiscence in eating, and it occurs when a person's lower appetites have overwhelmed their reason. Of course, in our modern world, to suggest that being obese is a moral or spiritual failing is verboten, but that does not take away from the truth of the matter.

Aquinas theorized there are actually five dimensions to gluttony:

1) Laute- eating food that is too luxurious, exotic, or costly
2) Studiose – eating food that is excessive in quality (too daintily or elaborately prepared)
3) Nimis – eating food that is excessive in quantity (too much)
4) Praepropere – eating hastily (too soon or at an inappropriate time)
5) Ardenter – eating greedily (too eagerly)

The solution to the vice of gluttony is, of course, fast and abstinence, or the mortification of the flesh.

 

[cosine]

I sometimes wonder what the world would be like if everyone was nutritionally healthy.

I showed a redpilled friend a chart of health outcomes compared to healthcare spending by country; the US is of course spending the most and has the worst health outcomes out of any developed country. He's the most jacked/fit person I know... he just said, "this IS the economy!" I think he was right. It's a completely crucial part of the decline of functioning society.

At times in my life when I've been 15-30lbs too heavy, I felt fat and useless and devoid of energy. So many people like @Rainy 's example don't have a comparison to make in their heads.

The solution to the vice of gluttony is, of course, fast and abstinence, or the mortification of the flesh.

I find that a better solution is actively eating nutritious, simple food. When I fill myself on nutritious, simple food, I lose cravings for garbage.
Breakfast: Eggs
Lunch: Turkey Sandwich
Dinner: Meat, broccoli, rice

Switch up the meat or the vegetables, get some organ meats, snack on greek yogurt and nuts if hungry.

If the country switched to that diet for a month we'd solve half our problems.

Your health is everything.

 

[Rainy]

Really sorry to hear that.

A friend who got over alcoholism ~15 years ago is still involved in AA. He said it's a 12-step process... step 1 is admitting there is a problem. Kind of difficult to get anywhere without that.

Have you tried asking some gentle question, like how they are navigating the healthcare world? As a way to segway into health generally? Or, have you tried "involving" yourself by cooking a decently healthy breakfast like eggs?

The biggest issue is you can't really help someone who doesn't want/seek help. I was a personal trainer years ago and helped many considerably overweight people lose weight. But they were at least aware enough of the problem to have signed up for a gym membership and driven there first.

Crazy thing is my sister and her husband were heavy into crossfit 10 years ago. Did paleo as well. They were legitimately fit people. To top it off per your suggestion, her husband is a chef as well.

So it's not like this has happened to people who don't have the understanding and previous lifestyle experience of being healthy themselves.

I think it's insight into the mental derangement and general unhappiness of radical lefties. They are far left, were Trump obsessed, brainwashed by MSM, etc. These types of people have serious underlying mental issues.

Seriously considering sending a heartfelt, but serious letter to her focused on her children, longevity and the potential reality of living with some very serious consequences stemming from her lifestyle. No one else in the family will touch the topic as she's a hothead. And her husband and inner circle encourages it. So someone might have to show they care enough- as her brother- to present some hard truths in a factual but respectful manner. Because I don't see how she makes it to 40 or 45 without a major heart attack or stroke.

Interestingly if this were any number of cultures no one would hesitate to ask "what happened"?

 

[cosine]

The biggest issue is you can't really help someone who doesn't want/seek help. I was a personal trainer years ago and helped many considerably overweight people lose weight. But they were at least aware enough of the problem to have signed up for a gym membership and driven there first.

Crazy thing is my sister and her husband were heavy into crossfit 10 years ago. Did paleo as well. They were legitimately fit people. To top it off per your suggestion, her husband is a chef as well.

So it's not like this has happened to people who don't have the understanding and previous lifestyle experience of being healthy themselves.

I think it's insight into the mental derangement and general unhappiness of radical lefties. They are far left, were Trump obsessed, brainwashed by MSM, etc. These types of people have serious underlying mental issues.

Seriously considering sending a heartfelt, but serious letter to her focused on her children, longevity and the potential reality of living with some very serious consequences stemming from her lifestyle. No one else in the family will touch the topic as she's a hothead. And her husband and inner circle encourages it. So someone might have to show they care enough- as her brother- to present some hard truths in a factual but respectful manner. Because I don't see how she makes it to 40 or 45 without a major heart attack or stroke.

Interestingly if this were any number of cultures no one would hesitate to ask "what happened"?

That sounds like a true fall from grace.

It isn't "just" being leftist, I live in a blue area and know plenty of world-class athletes, an olympian or two, with pronouns in their bios.

 

[cosine]

 

[thinkreadwritecode]

It's like these obese people never graduated from boomer-level parenting. "He don't eat regular food so we give him what he eats. As long as he's getting calories."

My 1-year old was eating 3 scrambled eggs with butter, half an avocado or sweet potato and berries, followed by a whole bottle of milk. It was crazy how much she ate. Never had a problem with her diet until her boomer grandparents got her hooked on sugar. Ever since then it was 10x harder to get her to eat healthy food. I myself was raised on soybean oil, processed meats, processed Little Debbie snacks, high-fructose corn syrup drinks and processed grains. I was underweight all throughout my youth.

 

[stadtaffe]

Wasn't sure whether to put this in the Tucker Carlson thread or here, but probably belongs here more :
Interview with Calley Means about Ozempic

https://tuckercarlson.com/the-case-against-ozempic/

Earlier in this thread I mentioned the new largest company in Europe Novo Nordisk from Denmark which has gotten that large in recent times through its anti-fat injection ozempic. Apparently you don't have to think about your diet. I've only met one person who tried it..
The thing that was a bit alarming is that you supposedly are never supposed to stop with the injection and it's expensive, so it's definitely good business but does not really sound right - forget about diet, sleep and exercise just get this injection. I'm not sure if anyone here has tried it or would admit it. There is also some discussion about the wrongness of the covid vax in there.

 

[Let God Arise]

Wasn't sure whether to put this in the Tucker Carlson thread or here, but probably belongs here more :
Interview with Calley Means about Ozempic

https://tuckercarlson.com/the-case-against-ozempic/

Earlier in this thread I mentioned the new largest company in Europe Novo Nordisk from Denmark which has gotten that large in recent times through its anti-fat injection ozempic. Apparently you don't have to think about your diet. I've only met one person who tried it..
The thing that was a bit alarming is that you supposedly are never supposed to stop with the injection and it's expensive, so it's definitely good business but does not really sound right - forget about diet, sleep and exercise just get this injection. I'm not sure if anyone here has tried it or would admit it. There is also some discussion about the wrongness of the covid vax in there.

My fear is that they are going to try to secretly put the COVAIDS junk into every future vaccine, including what's on childhood vax schedule. Personally I won't ever get another injection again, unless it's something critical like for rabies, if a raccoon or fox bites me. Get an injection, take a pill, but whatever you do, don't get off the couch and don't eat healthy.

 

[Caractacus Potts]

I used to look down on fat people with disdain. When I would see a morbidly obese person I immediately felt that that person had no discipline and no self respect. My thoughts on that have softened because I am now very overweight.

I grew up in the Arnie and Stallone era and got into weight lifting big time in high school and college. After I was discharged from the Marine Corps I got on with a big city fire department. We have workout time written into our contract. I have been in excellent physical shape my entire adult life. Up until the past few years.

I gained over 50 pounds during the Rona. I did not get to see my kids for months and I started drinking too much. One or two beers a night became a six pack. I currently weigh 263 lbs. I should be in the 195-205 range. At my last physical the doc expressed some concern. Going over years of my physical evals he pointed out how I used to be in really good shape and wondered what was up. I think it is a few things- I think I was suffering from depression and self medicating with food and alcohol.

After I gained all of the weight I finally received word from my local archdiocese that my annulment was granted and my previous marriage was considered null. As bad as it is to say, pussy was always a motivating factor in my working out. The better shape I was in the more attention I got from women. But we have all seen what women have become.

During the Rona I really started looking hard for a "virtuous" woman who was also attractive. After looking for more than a year I found two. One of whom is now married. Even if I get back in shape the pickings are extraordinarily slim. I am never going to put myself into the position that the state and the family courts can crucify me again so what am I to do? What is my motivation to work out and get slimmer? I know all of the feel good reasons, e.g., you'll feel better, you'll live longer, etc. but if I am not going to have a spouse and family what is the point?

God bless my niece. She told me "you're not fat. You just have a big tummy!" lol

 

[Let God Arise]

I am never going to put myself into the position that the state and the family courts can crucify me again so what am I to do? What is my motivation to work out and get slimmer? I know all of the feel good reasons, e.g., you'll feel better, you'll live longer, etc. but if I am not going to have a spouse and family what is the point?

This is exactly what I struggle with. Granted, I'm only a bit overweight, I am generally out of shape, have lost tons of muscle, cardio is non-existent, and I don't care to work out anymore. After all, when you lose interest in women, the "self-improvement" thing goes out the window. I'm not sure that lack of motivation is the same thing as depression or even a symptom of it. Maybe our focus and priorities just change. Besides, "just do it for yourself" is a weak motivator, as well. Perhaps just taking long walks is a good start and will get the mind on other things.

 

[thinkreadwritecode]

but if I am not going to have a spouse and family what is the point?

As time passes you may discover you want to be lighter in order to enjoy activities and be more alert and awake during the day. I was almost 240 at my heaviest (last year) and I'm down to 200 now and I already feel much better. I have a lot more mental energy and motivation then I used to and I am overcoming my old IBS issues. If you haven't yet developed any weight-related health issues you will want to lose the weight once you start to notice your body failing where it used to thrive.

 

[JCSteel]

 

[Batman]

they door dashed McDonald's

I can't even

 

[Batman]

What is my motivation to work out and get slimmer? I know all of the feel good reasons, e.g., you'll feel better, you'll live longer, etc. but if I am not going to have a spouse and family what is the point?

I'm realizing this is something that is probably effecting a lot of men now. If a man has no interest in starting a family, his motivations change drastically. I for one struggle a lot financially because I have no motivation to work hard, why the hell would I, I don't even want a girlfriend anymore let alone a family. So what's it for?

We look at the generations of men who worked their asses off not just in America but throughout history, and the overwhelming majority of them did it because they had no choice; they had a family to support. Nowdays this is still true, a man wants to work hard to be attractive enough to get a wife and start a family, OR he already has a family and is stuck in a bind where he has no choice but to support them at whatever grueling, soul crushing job he has.

The same can be said about getting fit, or many other aspects of the choices men make in the modern world. The truth is, most things men do are for women, whether they admit it or not. The whole self-improvement thing is kind of a joke, because it always has an ulterior motive, and so it's not really self-improvement, it's just an ego trip. The entire reason most men go to the gym is for women (or men).

I will say, my motivation for exercising comes down to the feeling of vigor and power that comes with being fit. I think about where the world could be in 10 years. Don't you think it would be useful to be able to defend yourself in a fight if civil unrest (or civil war) breaks out? Might it not be helpful to be able to run a quick 5k or sprint if you need to run away from tyrannical police? What about being able to pull yourself up off a ledge? These sort of hypothetical scenarios, while maybe purely hypothetical, can make you realize how vulnerable you are if you're not fit. Guns and "prepping" won't solve everything. Having a strong body equates to a strong mind. These are the sort of things I think about and I do find it helpful to motivate me to some extent, I just hate idea of being weak, having poor stamina, sluggish, etc, you feel so much less competent and powerful, when shvt hits the fan you'll feel much more vulnerable.

One last point, many people seem to think our bodies aren't "us" but merely contain "us", but we are as much our bodies as anything else, in some sense we are our bodies.

 

[cheapchampion]

I'm realizing this is something that is probably effecting a lot of men now. If a man has no interest in starting a family, his motivations change drastically. I for one struggle a lot financially because I have no motivation to work hard, why the hell would I, I don't even want a girlfriend anymore let alone a family. So what's it for?

We look at the generations of men who worked their asses off not just in America but throughout history, and the overwhelming majority of them did it because they had no choice; they had a family to support. Nowdays this is still true, a man wants to work hard to be attractive enough to get a wife and start a family, OR he already has a family and is stuck in a bind where he has no choice but to support them at whatever grueling, soul crushing job he has.

The same can be said about getting fit, or many other aspects of the choices men make in the modern world. The truth is, most things men do are for women, whether they admit it or not. The whole self-improvement thing is kind of a joke, because it always has an ulterior motive, and so it's not really self-improvement, it's just an ego trip. The entire reason most men go to the gym is for women (or men).

I will say, my motivation for exercising comes down to the feeling of vigor and power that comes with being fit. I think about where the world could be in 10 years. Don't you think it would be useful to be able to defend yourself in a fight if civil unrest (or civil war) breaks out? Might it not be helpful to be able to run a quick 5k or sprint if you need to run away from tyrannical police? Guns and "prepping" won't solve everything. Having a strong body equates to a strong mind. These are the sort of things I think about and I do find it helpful to motivate me to some extent, I just hate idea of being weak, having poor stamina, sluggish, etc, you feel so much less competent and powerful, when shvt hits the fan you'll feel much more vulnerable.

One last point, many people seem to think our bodies aren't "us" but merely contain "us", but we are as much our bodies as anything else, in some sense we are our bodies.

Our bodies do have an effect on the real us - our mood, emotions, etc - but no, they are not in any way the real us. Our souls are the real us. We dwell inside our bodies/temples and one day will leave these behind, at least in present form.

Back to your point, I totally agree with your reasoning for exercise. I just focus on posture/form/health now, and when I do that, it really does coincidence with an increased attractiveness. Women may be attracted to big muscles, but they are really attracted to a healthy man who is able bodied. A lot of really strong men aren't able to do much else except lift, and that lack of ability somehow really shows, perhaps in the man's lack of confidence knowing if he ever gets out of his element, he is screwed.

 

[Batman]

Our bodies do have an effect on the real us - our mood, emotions, etc - but no, they are not in any way the real us. Our souls are the real us. We dwell inside our bodies/temples and one day will leave these behind, at least in present form.

Back to your point, I totally agree with your reasoning for exercise. I just focus on posture/form/health now, and when I do that, it really does coincidence with an increased attractiveness. Women may be attracted to big muscles, but they are really attracted to a healthy man who is able bodied. A lot of really strong men aren't able to do much else except lift, and that lack of ability somehow really shows, perhaps in the man's lack of confidence knowing if he ever gets out of his element, he is screwed.

I would strongly disagree with the first point, and while that's a completely seperate discussion I'll bite. While i'm not an atheist or even a materialist, I do think the body/mind/spirit are all one thing. I don't believe in an afterlife in the sense that some intangible "self" leaves us, because once the body dies the spirit/mind go with it (but consciousness itself is another discussion, I think consciousness is ubiqituous in the Universe and our bodies serve as instruments to "focus" it with a directed, centralized experience called I). A good example to illustrate my earlier point is simple - when someone has a massive stroke they undergo a rapid personality change. If the soul was independant of this, why can't it override the body? The counter would be that the soul is "trapped" but no, I believe the self is not merely dependant on the body and brain but a reflection of it. The human spirit, or soul, may very well exist but it's completely based off the functions of our body, our hormones, our endocrine system, neurotransmitters make us who we are. If the afterlife does exist it would have to entail resurrecting our entire physical body, else the "self" that goes on to live isn't really you in any real sense. Funny enough, the atheists believe in a soul in a completely secular, but very similar way, as demonstrated by their belief in the possibility of "mind uploading" , but I don't believe that a "mind upload" would be anything but a pale imitation of our former selves, it's nothing but a fantasy. The whole subject of mind body dualism (or soul/body dualism) to me is a grave error in western thought.

Anyway, yeah, it should be common knowledge at this point that most women don't like big muscle bound guys, but guys who are fit, healthy, with glowing vigor. This means a balanced level of fitness that focuses on not just strength but endurance/stamina, flexibility, calisthenics, etc.

 

[cheapchampion]

I would strongly disagree with the first point, and while that's a completely seperate discussion I'll bite. While i'm not an atheist or even a materialist, I do think the body/mind/spirit are all one thing. I don't believe in an afterlife in the sense that some intangible "self" leaves us, because once the body dies the spirit/mind go with it (but consciousness itself is another discussion, I think consciousness is ubiqituous in the Universe and our bodies serve as instruments to "focus" it with a directed, centralized experience called I). A good example to illustrate my earlier point is simple - when someone has a massive stroke they undergo a rapid personality change. If the soul was independant of this, why can't it override the body? The counter would be that the soul is "trapped" but no, I believe the self is not merely dependant on the body and brain but a reflection of it. The human spirit, or soul, may very well exist but it's completely based off the functions of our body, our hormones, our endocrine system, neurotransmitters make us who we are. If the afterlife does exist it would have to entail resurrecting our entire physical body, else the "self" that goes on to live isn't really you in any real sense. Funny enough, the atheists believe in a soul in a completely secular, but very similar way, as demonstrated by their belief in the possibility of "mind uploading" , but I don't believe that a "mind upload" would be anything but a pale imitation of our former selves, it's nothing but a fantasy. The whole subject of mind body dualism (or soul/body dualism) to me is a grave error in western thought.

Anyway, yeah, it should be common knowledge at this point that most women don't like big muscle bound guys, but guys who are fit, healthy, with glowing vigor. This means a balanced level of fitness that focuses on not just strength but endurance/stamina, flexibility, calisthenics, etc.

There are definitely different Christian denoms that believe different things on this matter. Essentially on whether body, soul and spirit are indivisible or not. I should say, there is some scripture to defend both views. Jesus says that both body and soul will be cast into Hell, so that could be used to defend indivisibility, but there is also scripture on those going to Heaven having new bodies. Regardless, there is no question that the body is important. I've seen many people who gave up on taking care of their body, and their soul suffered. So I would generally agree, at least to the extent of where our natural lives end.