The Destruction of Modern Women


This thing about women absorbing DNA from guys is total horseshit.

Additionally, I don't really believe stats about number of partners ruining women either. Maybe there's some correlation, but I don't think it's the cause the way it's presented.

It's optimum if she's a virgin, but after that the number of partners is not the problem if she doesn't lose control and go "boy crazy" as we used to call it.

I've dated both extremes and those in-between and the numbers is not predictive any more than other addictions can be foreseen.

So speaketh Seraphim Thundercock.
 
The video above looks to be an AI creation. Doesn't it?

I know about stem cells from a baby being present for decades in the mother's body, so this seemed plausible to me.


Can the smug UC Davis people of science be trusted, they agree with RLOS? I think it was Michelangelo who said chaste women look younger, to justify why the Virgin Mary looked to be of the same age as Jesus on his paintings/frescos. Does more men mean worse looks, or ruined psychology?

 
Additionally, I don't really believe stats about number of partners ruining women either. Maybe there's some correlation, but I don't think it's the cause the way it's presented.
You don't have to believe anything, but this one is proven by both experience and longitudinal studies.

Everyone can know as a literal fact that a woman with more partners is only good for one thing (short term sex). Combining confusion, distrust, and uncertainty with women, whose nature is chaos, is obviously going to turn out poorly for any future prospect or johnny come lately. Sad, but true. It's reason #67 why involving yourself with 30 year old women should be on very strict conditions.
This thing about women absorbing DNA from guys is total horseshit.
It may or may not happen. In reality it doesn't matter, since the above is more important. DNA is material, so it's not like we take it into the "next world" at least in any similar fashion.
 
You don't have to believe anything, but this one is proven by both experience and longitudinal studies.
I'm very willing to be wrong on this one, it's that my personal experience has shown otherwise and my conclusion was that a woman can have a good character, be promiscuous according to social norms, not be a cheater, and then settle into a marriage properly.

Maybe I've just seen all the outliers. In my experience, ready to settle down can be a good wife & mom.

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I read a great comment on a hoe_math YT video, "I have a lot of women fatigue". That does seem to be the sentiment in many areas of the internet. What's the point in courtship if you can't be sure you'll be with your partner for the rest of your life? Men not only struggle to get women but struggle just as much to keep them. I don't think civilization can survive for long when women have the option to drop men easily, since most men would be happy to have one attractive woman the rest of their life. It was the single biggest thing men looked for when I went to a large evangelical college: finding "the one" to be with forever. Once that went out the window, not by most men's choice, it can't be long before collapse. That's probably why the birth rate is collapsing around the world, because everywhere is modernizing and women are able to take care of themselves, hence leave men at will. I think, until there is a correction and women are subjugated again, there won't be a civilizational recovery.

It's not a pleasant solution, but sooner or later reality will set in and the correction will be difficult and unpleasant. I don't think anyone's going to look forward to whatever is going to happen next, in a generation or two. I feel bad for my child and my life's goal is to try to create a safe haven for her and if she ever has a family of her own some day.
 
I read a great comment on a hoe_math YT video, "I have a lot of women fatigue". That does seem to be the sentiment in many areas of the internet. What's the point in courtship if you can't be sure you'll be with your partner for the rest of your life? Men not only struggle to get women but struggle just as much to keep them. I
I think hoe_math is an autistically brilliant guy, but he's extremely bitter and negative about women and humanity. It's a shame because he could rally people around a noble, worthwhile cause in a big way - like courting and falling in love and marrying properly again. I hope someday he'll see the light and direct his powerful intellect where it belongs.
 
I think hoe_math is an autistically brilliant guy, but he's extremely bitter and negative about women and humanity. It's a shame because he could rally people around a noble, worthwhile cause in a big way - like courting and falling in love and marrying properly again. I hope someday he'll see the light and direct his powerful intellect where it belongs.
I don't think so. I think he reflects the common experience of the average everyman. I don't pick up on any bitterness, just an accepting of reality. I also don't think an autistic person would pick up on the visual cues of bird hands, that's just not something autistic people would recognize. I'm also pretty sure he is already trying to get people to court and fall in love because he likes civilization. He's been very open about that on other videos I've seen, it's the whole reason he seems to make them. I also found his comment that when women say "be nice" what they mean is they want strong men to be nice, they aren't even referring to weak men or all men. That's been a big enlightening thing he's helped men to see that the red pill men weren't clear about, how a lot of women don't even see most men as people. I find it a useful heuristic to remind myself whenever women talk about men, you have to add the adjective "hot" to men to understand who they're talking about. That helps make sense of things like "men need to be nice" which is simply "hot strong men need to be less dangerous". That's another subtle cue that clues me into his not being autistic, someone with autism couldn't pick up on hidden meaning like that. I think he's already directing his intellect where it belongs, hence his explosion in popularity.
 
I read a great comment on a hoe_math YT video, "I have a lot of women fatigue". That does seem to be the sentiment in many areas of the internet. What's the point in courtship if you can't be sure you'll be with your partner for the rest of your life? Men not only struggle to get women but struggle just as much to keep them. I don't think civilization can survive for long when women have the option to drop men easily, since most men would be happy to have one attractive woman the rest of their life. It was the single biggest thing men looked for when I went to a large evangelical college: finding "the one" to be with forever. Once that went out the window, not by most men's choice, it can't be long before collapse. That's probably why the birth rate is collapsing around the world, because everywhere is modernizing and women are able to take care of themselves, hence leave men at will. I think, until there is a correction and women are subjugated again, there won't be a civilizational recovery.

It's not a pleasant solution, but sooner or later reality will set in and the correction will be difficult and unpleasant. I don't think anyone's going to look forward to whatever is going to happen next, in a generation or two. I feel bad for my child and my life's goal is to try to create a safe haven for her and if she ever has a family of her own some day.

Yes, it is the ideal to find the ‘one’ in college or soon after, settle down have a family and be with each other forever. Even growing up people had high school sweethearts.

I just don’t see it as practical anymore due to modern society. It’s an antiquated notion that got obliterated in a generation. I’d say for most people who grew up past the 60s it just doesn’t happen much anymore. For those that it did happen too, great, but for most of us the odds are nonexistent.

There are many reasons for this that seem to have been discussed on here like feminism, hypergamy, loss of religious identity, and mass social media influence.

The main thing I’ve noticed is that the men and women who don’t compromise or settle will end up being alone forever. While I don’t recommend wifing up a former sex worker or ho, the guys looking for virgin purity past say age 25 or so are going to bitterly disappointed. Unless you move to a remote Orthodox village.

There has to be a middle ground. A good woman who say has had a few boyfriends that didn’t work out and wants to settle down and be a mom and is in the faith would be a good choice. Even one who is divorced if you could verify her background and she wasn’t getting divorced for dumb reasons. That’s my take. Everyone wants that beautiful virgin bride but she will be hard to find since they don’t really exist much anymore.
 
You don't have to believe anything, but this one is proven by both experience and longitudinal studies.

Everyone can know as a literal fact that a woman with more partners is only good for one thing (short term sex)....

Season 5 Nbc GIF by The Office


On to some findings now.



Disclaimer GIF


This post reflects generalized findings and ideas, which may or may not have some application to the readers' past experience, present situation, or potential future.

Evidence for the higher risk of relationship problems following promiscuity

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I'm very willing to be wrong on this one, it's that my personal experience has shown otherwise and my conclusion was that a woman can have a good character, be promiscuous according to social norms, not be a cheater, and then settle into a marriage properly.

Maybe I've just seen all the outliers. In my experience, ready to settle down can be a good wife & mom.

No doubt, there are examples of promiscuous women settling down and becoming reliable mothers and even wives. In particular, having children forces most people to grow up at least a little.

Nonetheless, there is a very clear link between excessive sexual experiences and problems in subsequent relationships including marriage. Here's a quote from a related post Marriage: Virgins vs Non-virgins which includes links to research on the topic:

...Virginity is an important characteristic in the ideal woman. I want to wholeheartedly validate that belief. It makes sense on biological, cultural and sexual levels.

It is just not a standard that any man aged 30/40+, especially an athiest, can easily demand.

Now onto the 'experience' research

This research is 10+ years old so the stats must be even worse now in terms of the numbers of virgins getting married

wolfinger-sex-divorce-table-1.png


https://ifstudies.org/blog/counteri...-between-premarital-sex-and-marital-stability
Other studies on sexual experience and marital satisfaction:

> https://ifstudies.org/blog/does-sexual-history-affect-marital-happiness
> https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1741-3737.2003.00444.x
> https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11199-008-9497-0

And then, of course, there is the Word:
https://www.compellingtruth.org/Bible-virginity.html

I'll quote from the above links for the readers' convenience.

Article 1
Counterintuitive Trends in the Link Between Premarital Sex and Marital Stability


Key takeaway
Women with 0-1 partners were the least likely to divorce.

Full article
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American sexual behavior is much different than it used to be. Today, most Americans think premarital sex is okay, and will have three or more sexual partners before marrying. What, if anything, does premarital sex have to do with marital stability?
This research brief shows that the relationship between divorce and the number of sexual partners women have prior to marriage is complex. I explore this relationship using data from the three most recent waves of the National Survey of Family Growth (NSFG) collected in 2002, 2006-2010, and 2011-2013. For women marrying since the start of the new millennium:


  • Women with 10 or more partners were the most likely to divorce, but this only became true in recent years
  • Women with 3-9 partners were less likely to divorce than women with 2 partners; and
  • Women with 0-1 partners were the least likely to divorce.
Earlier research found that having multiple sex partners prior to marriage could lead to less happy marriages, and often increased the odds of divorce. But sexual attitudes and behaviors continue to change in America, and some of the strongest predictors of divorce in years gone by no longer matter as much as they once did. In my 2005 book Understanding the Divorce Cycle, I showed that the transmission of divorce between generations became weaker as divorce grew more common. Could the same thing have happened with sexual behavior? Somewhat surprisingly, the answer appears to be no.

Even more noteworthy has been the decline in the proportion of women who get married having had only one sex partner (in most cases, their future husbands). Forty-three percent of women had just one premarital sex partner in the 1970s. By the aughts, this was down to 21 percent. Neither of these two trends changed much after the first decade of the twenty-first century. Following in the wake of the sexual revolution, the 1970s have been characterized as a decade of carnal exploration. But this doesn’t seem to have been the case for the vast majority of women who ultimately tied the knot in that decade: almost two-thirds of them had at most one sex partner prior to getting married. Even in the 1980s, slightly over half of women had a maximum of one sex partner before walking down the aisle. Things looked very different at the start of the new millennium.

wolfinger sex divorce table 1


By the 2010s, only 5 percent of new brides were virgins. At the other end of the distribution, the number of future wives who had ten or more sex partners increased from 2 percent in the 1970s to 14 percent in the 2000s, and then to 18 percent in the 2010s. Overall, American women are far more likely to have had multiple premarital sex partners in recent years (unfortunately, the NSFG doesn’t have full data on men’s premarital sexual behavior, and in any event they recall their own marital histories less reliably than do women).

As premarital sex became more acceptable, it’s reasonable to anticipate that its negative effects on marital stability waned. In general, Americans became more accepting of nonmarital sex. Certainly fewer men entered marriage with the expectation of a virgin bride. All of the fanfare associated with hooking up is evidence that some young people have become comfortable with the idea of sex outside of serious relationships.

Be that as it may, this prediction is only partially borne out by the data shown in Figure 1. The following chart depicts the percentage of first marriages ending in divorce within five years of wedlock according to the decade the wedding took place and how many sex partners a woman had prior to marriage.1 Consistent with prior research, those with fewer sex partners were less likely to divorce. However, there are considerable differences by marriage cohort. For all three cohorts, women who married as virgins had the lowest divorce rates by far. Eleven percent of virgin marriages (on the part of the woman, at least) in the 1980s dissolved within five years. This number fell to 8 percent in the 1990s, then fell again to 6 percent in the 2000s. For all three decades, the women with the second lowest five-year divorce rates are those who had only one partner prior to marriage. It’s reasonable to assume that these partners reflected women’s eventual husbands. Even so, premarital sex with one partner substantially increases the odds of divorce.

In the 1980s and 1990s, the highest five-year divorce rates were reserved for women who had two partners. The effect was particularly strong in the 1980s, when these women had divorce rates of 28 percent, substantially higher than those of their peers who had ten or more sex partners prior to marriage (18 percent). Even in the aughts, women who had two partners had, at 30 percent, the second highest divorce rates in the table.

The highest five-year divorce rates of all are associated with marrying in the 2000s and having ten or more premarital sex partners: 33 percent. Perhaps it is not unexpected that having many partners increases the odds of divorce. The greater surprise is that this only holds true in recent years; previously, women with two partners prior to marriage had the highest divorce rates.

wolfinger sex partners divorce figure 1


Source: NSFG, 2002-2013

How can these findings be explained? It’s easiest to make sense of the low divorce rates of people with minimal sexual experience prior to marriage. Obviously, one of the most common reasons for premarital abstinence is religion, and NSFG data support such an interpretation.2 Figure 2 shows that women who marry as virgins are far more likely than other women to attend church at least once a week. It’s also noteworthy that virgin marriages increasingly became the domain of religious women between the 1980s and 2000s—and during the same years, the divorce rate for virgin brides continued to drop. These findings make sense in light of the fact that people who attend church frequently have lower divorce rates than do non-participants.

wolfinger sex partners church attendance figure 2


Source: NSFG, 2002-2013

Generally speaking, women who have multiple sex partners are less likely to be regular churchgoers. Since women with many partners don’t consistently have high divorce rates, there is little reason to suspect that religion is an important explanation for the relationship between sex partners and divorce outside of women who marry having had one or no partners.

Women who marry having had just one sex partner are unlikely to have had children with another man. Getting married with a child already in tow has a profound negative effect on marital happiness. And marriages preceded by nonmarital fertility have disproportionately high divorce rates. This is another reason why divorce rates are lower for women who marry having had only one sex partner, or none at all. Ultimately we’re left to speculate about why having exactly two partners produces some of the highest divorce rates.

My best guess rests on the notion of over-emphasized comparisons. In most cases, a woman’s two premarital sex partners include her future husband and one other man. That second sex partner is first-hand proof of a sexual alternative to one’s husband. These sexual experiences convince women that sex outside of wedlock is indeed a possibility. The man involved was likely to have become a partner in the course of a serious relationship—women inclined to hook up will have had more than two premarital partners—thereby emphasizing the seriousness of the alternative. Of course, women learn about the viability of nonmarital sex if they have multiple premarital partners, but with multiple partners, each one represents a smaller part of a woman’s sexual and romantic biography. Having two partners may lead to uncertainty, but having a few more apparently leads to greater clarity about the right man to marry. The odds of divorce are lowest with zero or one premarital partners, but otherwise sowing one’s oats seems compatible with having a lasting marriage.

But not too many oats, if one married after the start of the new millennium. The highest divorce rates shown in Figure 1, 33 percent, belong to women who had ten or more premarital sex partners. This is the result most readers of this brief probably expected: a lot of partners means a lot of baggage, which makes a stable marriage less tenable. It’s also entirely likely that the correlation is spurious, the product of certain personal characteristics. For instance, people who suffered childhood sexual abuse are more likely to have extensive sexual histories. Childhood abuse also increases the odds of a problematic marriage.

This is an extreme example. Most of the time, spuriousness probably has less measurable causes. Some people may just have a high level of sexual curiosity, an attribute that doesn’t appear to bode well for a stable marriage, at least since the start of the new millennium.

The odds of divorce are lowest with zero or one premarital partners.
Two caveats are in order. First, the 33 percent divorce figure for women with ten or partners who married in the 2000s is not statistically significantly higher than the 30 percent five-year divorce rate for women who had two partners. Second, it is unknown as to why having ten or more partners has become more strongly linked to divorce only recently. This is a surprising development given the increasing frequency of having multiple partners, as well as people’s greater overall acceptance of premarital sexuality. Perhaps this acceptance is more complex than has been acknowledged. Having a handful of sex partners—anywhere between three and nine—may be perfectly acceptable, but more than that is problematic for marriage in a way it didn’t used to be. In any event, a full understanding is beyond the scope of this report.

Finally, I sought to explain the relationship between premarital sexuality and marital stability via multivariate analysis. Generally speaking, major social and demographic differences between survey respondents explain only a small portion of the relationship between numbers of sex partners and marital stability. At best, these differences account for about one quarter of the observed association between sex partners and divorce. At worst, they make essentially no difference. Due to the design of the NSFG, a limited number of socio-demographic variables were amenable to analysis, including race, family structure of origin, urban vs. rural residence, age at marriage, and church attendance.

Aside from religion, race and family of origin accounted for the largest portion of the sexual partners/divorce relationship. Caucasian and African American women had similar premarital sexual behavior, but Latinas and members of the “Other” population group had notably fewer sex partners and lower divorce rates than either whites or blacks. Similarly, people who grew up without both parents had more partners and divorced more. Detailed psychometric data would be necessary to further explain the relationship between numbers of sex partners and marital stability.

It won’t be surprising to most readers that people with more premarital sex partners have higher divorce rates, broadly speaking. That said, this research brief paints a fairly complicated picture of the association between sex and marital stability that ultimately raises more questions than it answers.

Nicholas H. Wolfinger is Professor of Family and Consumer Studies and Adjunct Professor of Sociology at the University of Utah. His most recent book is Soul Mates: Religion, Sex, Children, and Marriage among African Americans and Latinos, coauthored with W. Bradford Wilcox (Oxford University Press, 2016).


1. The figure depicts life table five-year marriage failure rates. The sample sizes are too small to look at sex partners and divorce for marriages formed in the 1970s and the 2010s. Also, the data don’t permit the analysis of same-sex marriage.

2. Some caveats. First, although church attendance is a good measure of religious involvement, it doesn’t fully capture religiosity. Second and more important is the fact that church attendance is measured at the time of the NSFG interview, so it might be a consequence as well as a cause of marital behavior. Divorce affects religious participation: female NSFG respondents are almost 25 percent less likely to attend church frequently compared to married women. Accordingly, findings concerning religion should be viewed as suggestive rather than definitive.


Appendix: Cox Regression Estimates of the Effects of Premarital Sex Partners and Other Factors on Women's Marital Stability in First Marriages (Tables 1 - 4)

Note: Results are hazard ratios indicating increased odds of divorce compared to reference category of 0 partners (total abstinence before marriage). For example, Table 1 shows that women who married in the 1990s and had one premarital sex partner had 75% higher odds of divorce compared to women who married as virgins in the 1990s.

For all tables, Ns are:
1980s: 1,899
1990s: 4,292
2000s: 3,597

Ns are too small for analysis of divorce and sex partners for people marrying in the 1970s and the 2010s.

* = not significant
** = p < .10

TABLE 1 BLOGNEW


TABLE 2BLOGNEW


TABLE 3BLOGNEW


TABLE 4BLOG NEW

Article 2
Does Sexual History Affect Marital Happiness?

Highlights
The surprisingly large number of Americans reporting one lifetime sex partner have the happiest marriages.
Premarital sexual experience affects marital happiness, but perhaps the more important story is that almost two-thirds (64%) of Americans are happy in their marriages.
The difference between having one and more than one lifetime sex partner is most consequential in predicting marital quality

An example figure
figure2sexmaritalhappinessupdated-w640.png


Article 3
Premarital Sex and Marital Satisfaction of Middle Aged Men and Women: A Study of Married Lithuanian Couples

Abstract
A study was conducted to investigate possible links between current marital satisfaction and age of onset of sexual intercourse, having an experience of premarital intercourse, the number of premarital sexual partners, and having an experience of premarital cohabitation. A convenience sample of subjects consisted of 41 middle-aged married Lithuanian couples. Marital satisfaction was measured by a 16-item Marital Satisfaction Scale developed by the principle investigators of this study. Results indicated no significant relationship between the experience of premarital sexual intercourse and marital satisfaction of men or women. However, men, who had more premarital partners and cohabitation experience, were less satisfied with their marriages. For women, younger onset of sexual activity and larger number of premarital partners was related to lower marital satisfaction.

Article 4
Premarital Sex, Premarital Cohabitation, and the Risk of Subsequent Marital Dissolution Among Women

Abstract
Using nationally representative data from the 1995 National Survey of Family Growth, I estimate the association between intimate premarital relationships (premarital sex and premarital cohabitation) and subsequent marital dissolution. I extend previous research by considering relationship histories pertaining to both premarital sex and premarital cohabitation. I find that premarital sex or premarital cohabitation that is limited to a woman's husband is not associated with an elevated risk of marital disruption. However, women who have more than one intimate premarital relationship have an increased risk of marital dissolution. These results suggest that neither premarital sex nor premarital cohabitation by itself indicate either preexisting characteristics or subsequent relationship environments that weaken marriages. Indeed, the findings are consistent with the notion that premarital sex and cohabitation limited to one's future spouse has become part of the normal courtship process for marriage.

A Video/Audio Discussion

Here, Rich Cooper cites the work of Teachman and others quoted above


The Man Needs to be Respected, or it won't End Well

As outlined in the thread 'Who Should you Marry' the fundamental principle of the man commanding respect explains in part why promiscuity leads to marital issues:

... it's hard to overemphasize how critical it is for a man to be respected by his woman. In most cases, this means that she feels strong, genuine attraction for her man AND that this attraction is maintained over time.

With this in mind, what do you think would be the chance that a woman will be thinking "this is the best guy for me" if she slept with 1 guy vs 100 guys before settling down. This represents another reason why wifing up an ex-slut is almost certainly a bad idea -- she knows that the (clueless) currrent guy is not the most attractive dude she's been with. Not good.

A likely counter would be "What about fear of missing out (FOMO)? Surely she'll be wondering what else is out there?" That's a fair rebuttal in many cases. Social media and dating apps have made things worse. But the *possibility* of problems due to FOMO doesn't outweigh the *probability* of issues caused by being a ho.

Damage to Pair-bonding

Moreover, pair-bonding damage is brutal for women with lots of bodies. Her ability to form a meaningful emotional connection becomes weaker with every sexual experience. Such bio-neurological damage and desensitization only spells trouble for future relationships.

There are countless articles online written by feminists, ex-sluts, and soyboy whore-apologists trying to bust this claim because it's "misogynistic", as they try to sweep away results from articles like Sowing wild oats: Valuable experience or a field full of weeds? with simple explanations like "correlation doesn't equal causation". Others conveniently ignore evidence from samples of mammals, such as How prior pair-bonding experience affects future bonding behavior in monogamous prairie voles. Some more compelling points follow:

Psychological and Neurological Factors (“Pair Bonding” Effects)

Why might a history of numerous short-term relationships make it harder to maintain one long-term relationship? Researchers have proposed several psychological and neurobiological mechanisms that could explain this pattern. One theory is that the brain and emotional system can become conditioned by repeated casual intimacy in ways that hinder deep pair-bonding. Anthropologist Helen Fisher argues that “casual sex doesn’t really exist” in the sense that our brains are wired to bond during sex – but if someone constantly breaks off relationships and moves to the next, they may be training their brain to treat relationships as temporary . Over time, they become used to exiting when the initial passion fades. Fisher suggests that a woman who has many partners one after another effectively rewires herself to expect short-term flings. Then, “when you try to settle down long-term with your subsequent partner, you are more likely to have difficulties trying to adjust and compromise,” Fisher says . In other words, the patience and effort required in a long relationship may be lacking because her brain has learned that moving on is easier than working through problems. This idea mirrors the transcript’s claim that women with many exes get “used to short cycles of euphoria” and then bail when things calm down – a notion that Fisher’s perspective supports on a neuroscientific level.

If someone constantly breaks off relationships and moves to the next, they may be training their brain to treat relationships as temporary

A woman who has many partners one after another effectively rewires herself to expect short-term flings. Her brain has learned that moving on is easier than working through problems.
Biochemically, oxytocin and vasopressin are hormones known to facilitate bonding and attachment, especially in women (oxytocin is released during sexual intimacy and orgasm, promoting feelings of trust and bonding). Some research suggests that repeatedly forming and breaking sexual bonds might desensitize these bonding mechanisms. The Medical Institute for Sexual Health, for example, reports that casual sex can lead to decreased oxytocin production over time and interfere with the ability to form new pair bonds . In a review, they conclude: “Repeated sexual encounters with multiple partners neutralize the brain. When an individual chooses to engage in casual sex, breaking bond after bond with each new partner, the brain forms a new synaptic map of one-night stands. This pattern becomes the ‘new normal’ for the individual…making a permanent bond more difficult to achieve.” . In plainer terms, each casual relationship might leave a “neurological imprint” – and if those imprints pile up, the brain’s ability to fully attach to a new partner could be diminished. The concept of “oxytocin resistance” was mentioned in the transcript, and while human research is still emerging, this notion parallels how prairie vole studies show that bonding is a specific neurochemical process: once a vole bonds with a mate, its brain receptors change to make new bonds harder, and conversely a vole that mates with many partners without bonding never experiences the receptor changes that facilitate deep attachment . By analogy, a woman who never allows a lasting bond to form (because relationships are repeatedly cut short) might not engage the full oxytocin–dopamine bonding pathway with any partner, or her brain might suppress it, having learned that “sex doesn’t equal lasting attachment.” Neuroscientist Dr. Larry Young explains that while oxytocin plays a role in bonding, “oxytocin alone does not create the bond…there are brain mechanisms that can inhibit bonding after sex with another individual” . If someone habitually treats sex as non-bonding, those inhibitory mechanisms may dominate, making it easier to walk away unhurt – but also harder to truly connect .

From an emotional perspective, frequent breakups can lead to a form of relational burnout or cynicism. Each failed relationship might make it a bit easier for a person to detach the next time. A woman with many exes eventually sees “fights and breakups not as tragedy, but as routine…she’s emotionally worn out”. Clinical research supports a kernel of this: a study on past relationship “solidarity” found that people who had very strong attachments to previous partners actually showed lower commitment and satisfaction in their current relationship . One interpretation is that giving a lot of oneself in past relationships (and being hurt or let down) can leave fewer “emotional reserves” to invest in a new partner . Emotional exhaustion is a real phenomenon – someone who’s been through many romantic ups and downs may build defensive walls or simply not put in the same level of affection, having “seen it all before.” The transcript described this as “loss of exclusivity – you’re just the next one in line.”
Do Women’s Past Sexual Partners Affect Stability and Satisfaction in New Relationships?

Choice Overload

It also doesn't touch on the numerous downsides of having too much choice in dating, such as delayed decision-making, the tendency to keep looking, and the sense of opportunity costs, regret once a decision has been made, and more:

... having more choice in the domain of dating also has negative consequences. For example, when asked to pick the best partner, access to more partner profiles resulted in more searching, more time spent on evaluating bad choice options, and a lower likelihood of selecting the option with the best personal fit (Wu & Chiou, 2009). Likewise, when a choice set increases, people end up being less satisfied with their ultimate partner choice and more prone to reverse their decision (D’Angelo & Toma, 2017). The adverse effects of choice overload are also mentioned in articles in popular media mentioning phenomena such as “Tinder fatigue” (Beck, 2016) or “dating burnout” (Blair, 2017).
A Rejection Mind-Set: Choice Overload in Online Dating20251109_201258.jpg
^Modern women will see this and post "accurate lol".

This is why men should carefully consider if a woman has chosen them because they are the woman's perceived best choice, period OR if the woman decided she'd better settle because she's getting older and wants a domesticated man who she can more easily control. A related video from Rich:





A Balanced Approach

Yes, it is the ideal to find the ‘one’ in college or soon after, settle down have a family and be with each other forever. Even growing up people had high school sweethearts.

I just don’t see it as practical anymore due to modern society. It’s an antiquated notion that got obliterated in a generation. I’d say for most people who grew up past the 60s it just doesn’t happen much anymore. For those that it did happen too, great, but for most of us the odds are nonexistent.

There are many reasons for this that seem to have been discussed on here like feminism, hypergamy, loss of religious identity, and mass social media influence.

The main thing I’ve noticed is that the men and women who don’t compromise or settle will end up being alone forever. While I don’t recommend wifing up a former sex worker or ho, the guys looking for virgin purity past say age 25 or so are going to bitterly disappointed. Unless you move to a remote Orthodox village.

There has to be a middle ground. A good woman who say has had a few boyfriends that didn’t work out and wants to settle down and be a mom and is in the faith would be a good choice. Even one who is divorced if you could verify her background and she wasn’t getting divorced for dumb reasons. That’s my take. Everyone wants that beautiful virgin bride but she will be hard to find since they don’t really exist much anymore.

^ A reasonable approach with some good points, which generally reflect my take in the thread 'Marriage: Virgins vs Non-virgins' regarding the limitations of holding onto unrealistic standards and theoretical ideals. In this case, a worldview can be built without sufficient real life experience to understand a man's responsibilities beyond mere initial screening, yet simply 'finding' a suitable candidate is just one part of the picture. It's very understandable how men get discouraged in this clown world and I deeply empathize with them. Nonetheless, men who obsess about purity could be unnecessarily limiting their opportunities. A related post follows on having standards.



Conclusion

Women can be screened out quickly but only screened in slowly. Distrust may only take a second to feel, whereas trust takes months or even years to develop. A high notch count is a somewhat reliable indicator that a woman would be unsuitable as a wife; however it's absence is not a reliable indicator that she is suitable.

Regardless of her past experience, it's the responsibility of the man to ensure that she looks UP to him. A lower body count will, all else being equal, lower the chance of disrespect and dissatisfaction, but it is no guarantee. Instead, assessing patterns across multiple domains (appearance, personality, family, behavior, hobbies etc) is going to lead to better decision making and more opportunities to fulfill one's potential for experiencing all life has to offer, including children.

I hope this post was useful to some readers.
 

Commie Poland had a bachelor tax, wiki says both sexes, from what I know it was for men only: from 1946- 56 anyone childless, or single above the age of 21 had his income tax rate raised by a few percentage points, from '57 to '73 it would kick in for those above 25.

The 1KC stare is real, God can make anybody whole again, doesn't happen often I guess knowing what people tend to be like.
 
I challenge any of you, or all of you to watch this YouTube video all the way to the end without laughing



Supposedly it is real, and not a comedy skit, but it certainly could be a very funny comedy skit if they were using actors and not real people. It’s a woman who was gifted a matchmaker.


I only watched the 1st minute. When it showed what the woman looked like and that she was 44, I already figured out her two main problems. She’s unattractive and middle aged. Case closed.
 
I only watched the 1st minute. When it showed what the woman looked like and that she was 44, I already figured out her two main problems. She’s unattractive and middle aged. Case closed.
Had to be a bit. In the last minute or so, she says she’s the lead receptionist at her law firm, but there’s a “technical issue” with her law license, she can’t pass the bar exam, but once she “clears that up” it’s a hop skip and jump to managing partner.
 
Had to be a bit. In the last minute or so, she says she’s the lead receptionist at her law firm, but there’s a “technical issue” with her law license, she can’t pass the bar exam, but once she “clears that up” it’s a hop skip and jump to managing partner.

Turnabout: she’s not a secretary, no law degree, just a lot of mental issues
 
Men not only struggle to get women but struggle just as much to keep them.
That reminds me of the Michael Saylor wisdom that almost everything in life is far more about keeping/maintaining it rather than acquiring it, the latter part being easy. He also comes from a time in which the latter was in fact easier, so he's not aware that in the modern day (as is the case with women) it's hard to do everything now, especially acquiring (jobs too). It turns out now, and this is why there's basically a crisis in everything, it's hard to get something, hard to maintain or keep it, and then (I forget what he says further since many of those interviews with the likes of Robert Breedlove are 2+ hours long).
because everywhere is modernizing and women are able to take care of themselves, hence leave men at will.
Technology and the way government became structured (to give or redistribute to the less competent and create dependents) necessarily was always going to be a problem for societies eventually, and more specifically, men. When you throw the medical/hormonal technology of oral contraceptive pills, you also create (with antibiotics available) a scenario where women can leverage their most "productive" or desired resource but without accountability or risk. That causes major damage to them and men, of course, though of course they don't see that til it's too late.

Previous to all of these developments, there was basically no way for women to "game" the system as there was an extremely high price to pay for allowing the wrong man to "get the milk". Now, they get resource allocation on steroids, with jobs, being backstopped by the government, and even leveraging their youth the whole while to get more resources without consequence (or so they think).

Obviously, the only real change to this will be when the free money or backstopping ceases, as do the jobs, and the availability of medical "technology" or procedures (pills and abortions) is unavailable. Those can all occur in an economic crisis or collapse, of course.
I think hoe_math is an autistically brilliant guy, but he's extremely bitter and negative about women and humanity. It's a shame because he could rally people around a noble, worthwhile cause in a big way - like courting and falling in love and marrying properly again.
Jenn, let me tell you something about men that perhaps you somewhat realize but can't fathom, and I'm especially aware of this because I'm both a man and realize that 85%+ of men don't realize many of these things either, or are incapable of this level of critical or abstract thinking: women are clueless as to how well men (the capable ones) both see and can analyze the big picture at a high level. It's like so many other things in life, and it occurs in the sexes - it's not necessarily that women are incapable of it, but they are not interested in this kind of thinking, so as a matter of fact they will never develop it even if theoretically they are a rare woman who actually can. When you understand that by nature men are expendable, and that both women and men are largely indifferent about other men, only a Saint is not going to be bitter (or come off that way) when analyzing how brutal human nature, and its indifferences, are.

I don't think he has the gifts to rally people, as that takes other skills and characteristics, and they are entirely different than assessing reality. What it would take to turn this around, I'm sorry to say as I've experienced it all too much, is actually closer to the collapse since pain, suffering and pure reality of the harshness of the world is really the only thing people respond to en masse.

If people are interested I tell them the truth but you would be astonished I think by the number of people that I've told things to that either don't care, don't want to believe that they are happening or will happen, or are basically too proud to come back full circle when everything you told them that would happen, in fact, did. These aren't unintelligent people, but they typically have this characteristic (90% of people): they are consensus thinkers and can't break that mold for social and/or emotional reasons. By the way, that explains why so few people are a) wealthy and b) exceptional, since by definition one must be different to get outsized gains, see things others can't, etc.
I also don't think an autistic person would pick up on the visual cues of bird hands, that's just not something autistic people would recognize.
He isn't. I don't think he had a great upbringing and I do have some knowledge from some insiders that he is a bit anxious about things, but I think that just means he's hyperfocused on particular topics that both bother and intrigue him.
I find it a useful heuristic to remind myself whenever women talk about men, you have to add the adjective "hot" to men to understand who they're talking about.
Back in the day, there was a "ladder theory" (I think it still has a url) that was on or in a site called intellectual whores. I think I've cited it on the forum, and it was funny. He had a pie chart on "Woman's rating system" which was 50% money/power, 40% attraction, and 10% "Things women say they care about but don't"

He had a ton of other funny stuff on there, and basically it's just a description of how base animal instincts are, which run again 90% of people, since most don't overcome their animal nature very much at all during their lifetimes. It's funny of course because people act like it's not true but humans use language so they just lie to others most of the time, and appeal to emotions and other such things for personal gain.

Another way of saying all that is that women care about characteristics X, Y and Z after they find you attractive, which they never say or admit. As such, of course that lip service isn't useful.
The main thing I’ve noticed is that the men and women who don’t compromise or settle will end up being alone forever.
I've talked about this a lot, and the biggest problem is that women have power/leverage early in life, and apart from being young (knowing less), they have little interest in big picture analysis or long term assessment. Trading your youth to a good man is an unbelievably winning trade, given how long women live and the return on that (whole life protected and provided for by a guy who only gets a short window of your attractiveness?). What society does to men earlier in life is good for everyone too, which is fool them into this when they are adaptable and walking boners, for their future and for the families future, as they'll work for that and it gives them purpose. As I've said though, once you take women out of the youth and purity part of commitment, no man is going to be interested. At all. Because he gets nothing then, essentially.
I only watched the 1st minute. When it showed what the woman looked like and that she was 44, I already figured out her two main problems. She’s unattractive and middle aged. Case closed.
It's hard to believe that's real, or they can act as though it is fake even if real, given their reaction to laughing at the part when she says her last serious relationship was 20 years back.

A couple things women don't get about men's physical attraction to a woman are a) youth trumps nearly all and b) pretty faces don't mean that much when bodies are fat or not thing, let's say. What's more, men don't fake their appearance by makeup or do cosmetic procedures like boob jobs, so much of what men see with a pretty face often isn't even real. To really get people to think and shatter what society tells them, chewing on the fact that in nature the male of any animal species is almost always better looking is a funny thing to think about. Human men care less about this likely due to how strong testosterone is in promoting them to mate under many circumstances.
 
That reminds me of the Michael Saylor wisdom that almost everything in life is far more about keeping/maintaining it rather than acquiring it, the latter part being easy. He also comes from a time in which the latter was in fact easier, so he's not aware that in the modern day (as is the case with women) it's hard to do everything now, especially acquiring (jobs too). It turns out now, and this is why there's basically a crisis in everything, it's hard to get something, hard to maintain or keep it, and then (I forget what he says further since many of those interviews with the likes of Robert Breedlove are 2+ hours long).

Yes that’s why when speaking with some these people I feel like banging my head against a wall. The divide is too much. Back in their day making progress in America was a complete joke, where only the dregs of society could screw it up. It was mostly life on easy mode and avoiding some obstacles. They could be a high school dropout or have just a HS education and still be able to lock down a good wife, own a home, and raise a family of 4 or 5. Then they try to lecture you that everyone had the same opportunities.

It was before society was destroyed by legal and illegal immigration, H1B and other visa scams, liberal takeover, and rampant inflation. Even these days earning over 6 figures in parts of the US is not even a lot of money.

Technology and the way government became structured (to give or redistribute to the less competent and create dependents) necessarily was always going to be a problem for societies eventually, and more specifically, men. When you throw the medical/hormonal technology of oral contraceptive pills, you also create (with antibiotics available) a scenario where women can leverage their most "productive" or desired resource but without accountability or risk. That causes major damage to them and men, of course, though of course they don't see that til it's too late.

The pill created an entire generation of hoes with zero accountability. That and widespread availability to abortion.


Previous to all of these developments, there was basically no way for women to "game" the system as there was an extremely high price to pay for allowing the wrong man to "get the milk". Now, they get resource allocation on steroids, with jobs, being backstopped by the government, and even leveraging their youth the whole while to get more resources without consequence (or so they think).

As pointed out in this thread, not only are women backstopped by the government but also their parents, simps, or sugar daddies if she is attractive enough.

Obviously, the only real change to this will be when the free money or backstopping ceases, as do the jobs, and the availability of medical "technology" or procedures (pills and abortions) is unavailable. Those can all occur in an economic crisis or collapse, of course.

Jenn, let me tell you something about men that perhaps you somewhat realize but can't fathom, and I'm especially aware of this because I'm both a man and realize that 85%+ of men don't realize many of these things either, or are incapable of this level of critical or abstract thinking: women are clueless as to how well men (the capable ones) both see and can analyze the big picture at a high level. It's like so many other things in life, and it occurs in the sexes - it's not necessarily that women are incapable of it, but they are not interested in this kind of thinking, so as a matter of fact they will never develop it even if theoretically they are a rare woman who actually can. When you understand that by nature men are expendable, and that both women and men are largely indifferent about other men, only a Saint is not going to be bitter (or come off that way) when analyzing how brutal human nature, and its indifferences, are.

If people are interested I tell them the truth but you would be astonished I think by the number of people that I've told things to that either don't care, don't want to believe that they are happening or will happen, or are basically too proud to come back full circle when everything you told them that would happen, in fact, did. These aren't unintelligent people, but they typically have this characteristic (90% of people): they are consensus thinkers and can't break that mold for social and/or emotional reasons. By the way, that explains why so few people are a) wealthy and b) exceptional, since by definition one must be different to get outsized gains, see things others can't, etc.

There is another element that the system doesn’t reward people who are in these categories. People are constantly surprised that the country is not changing when we elect new people. That’s because these people are products of the system. The system wants you to take orders and obey your masters. Enter any established corporation or job and try to be a trend setter. You will be perceived as a threat and ostracized and eventually fired. Most of the time. Or they allow you to operate at a mid level, but keep the very senior positions for the people who will please their banking masters and the board.

Thats why the real trendsetters usually are entrepreneurs like Trump or guys like Musk. Despite their flaws they ran their own businesses and have the wealth and the dgaf attitude to buck the system.

He had a ton of other funny stuff on there, and basically it's just a description of how base animal instincts are, which run again 90% of people, since most don't overcome their animal nature very much at all during their lifetimes. It's funny of course because people act like it's not true but humans use language so they just lie to others most of the time, and appeal to emotions and other such things for personal gain.

This is another point and I think makes dating harder for people who are analytical and think longer term. The primal brain nearly ALWAYS hijacks the logical analytical brain. It’s true for everyone, although some people skew towards objectivity more than others. Give a guy an extra 6 inches of height and steroids and I can guarantee his dating life will improve even if he changes nothing else. Throw in some local fame and wealth and he will do even better. With women having some kind of provider and being backstopped these days it’s even more true. Bottom line many modern women aren’t thinking past the present moment at all. They just think I’m feeling good now so I will feel good later.
 
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