Testosterone Replacement Therapy

[BrotherAugustine]

Did two cycles. Pros are that I lost 28 pounds and gained muscle the entire way down, with dialed in diet and exercise programming. Cons are inflamed lust and pride, and in my case higher T (even just on higher T days today, with no TRT) really hinders my spiritual watchfulness. Less of a gap between impulse and action.

In either case, nobody has given a better description than Chael Sonnen: “Testosterone makes effort feel good.”

 

[SeaEagle]

Im curious if many posters here have tried high-fat carnivore. Saturated fats are necessary for hormone regulation. TRT seems like a bandaid solution. Why not fix the root cause, ie. inflammation from eating famine foods (veggies, complex carbs)?

 

[TruthTeller]

I think I might consider TRT when/if I am an old man, like past 60. I'll probably need it by then to help support basic survival working at minimum wage jobs at that point in life. I also don't want to get on something I'd be dependent on before WWIII, Civil War, collapse of Clown World, The Great Taking and so on. In all honesty I'm just trying to prepare my soul for death over preparing for retirement in 30 years.

The problem is prostate issues at that age. My understanding is it’s not actually testosterone itself that affects it (maybe high levels do) but the conversion to DHT and other androgens that are difficult to control or predict. Regardless looking at PSA levels is an indicator and a responsible doctor will definitely be tracking them for you.

 

[TruthTeller]

Did two cycles. Pros are that I lost 28 pounds and gained muscle the entire way down, with dialed in diet and exercise programming. Cons are inflamed lust and pride, and in my case higher T (even just on higher T days today, with no TRT) really hinders my spiritual watchfulness. Less of a gap between impulse and action.

In either case, nobody has given a better description than Chael Sonnen: “Testosterone makes effort feel good.”

Did the cons outweigh the benefits for you or the other way around?

 

[BrotherAugustine]

Did the cons outweigh the benefits for you or the other way around?

I didn’t think so at the time, but by God’s grace I have grown a bit in the last couple years and will not go back on it anytime in the near future. I can barely take over the counter T supplements without feeling my spirituality diminish these days, so I usually don’t take any. Maybe one Tongkat Ali pill every two or three days at most. Anything more than that (serving size is two pills per day which I will not do) is too much.

 

[Maddox]

Is anyone else here over 50 and tired after the least bit of exercise or chores around the house like I am? My T levels are prolly causing this but I'm curious to know if other guys with low numbers are experiencing the same symptoms. It's so annoying, but since I won't take TRT I need to find other ways of improving my numbers.

If you felt tired before and then somehow raised your levels through TRT, exercise, or whatever...what level did you reach where you felt you had more energy?

 

[Rainy]

Exercise is the best tool vs feeling tired.

Whether hitting the iron or just going for a 30 min walk while listening to good music. Get the heart pumping and blood circulating.

I always feel energized after either.

Eating also slows me down. I save it for evenings. For many people digestion is a distraction and slows you down. So does processed food. Some can eat mid day without issue. I can’t so I don’t.

Lack of hydration is another variable.

I could go on but little things like the above have a cumulative impact on general energy levels.

 

[Uzisuicide]

I cruised off and on from 2013 to 2016 then came off cold turkey after about two years of being 'on'. Tried to conceive with my then fiance' (bad idea) who's biological clock was ticking. Turns out that after three years of being 'off' cold turkey, I had ZERO sperm and T levels at about 300. My HPTA NEVER RECOVERED! I was 47 at the time and had already fathered two kids.

Fast forward to today, I'd been on for 2 and a half years: mostly Equipoise and Deca with a base Test Enanthate of around 700mg/wk with orals mixed in here and there. Been off for 8 weeks last week and had a PCT regimen of HCG, HMG, Nolvadex and over the counter herbs.
At 51 now, my system will never fully recover and I will be on exogenous Test for the rest of my life to one degree or another. I get it, it's a choice I made a long time ago.
Pros: Gym gains with proper diet and I just feel like a million bucks when 'on' if that makes sense.

Cons: Testicular atrophy, have to watch blood pressure and I have to take ancillaries to control Prolactin and Estrogen. Have to donate blood from time to time because of high red blood cells and hemacrit. Also, if you have problems with lust, those problems will be a great deal more difficult to control when 'on'.

Getting a home blood pressure tester and getting regular blood work is a must if you are going to be on exogenous T. Eventually I'll come down to HRT levels one day but I'm not ready for that yet. Just started Deca 600mg/wk and Test E 750mg/wk.

HCG helped bring the testicles back pretty quickly. The HMG mimics FSH and will get sperm production going for those out there who want to conceive. A Nolvadex or Clomid will help activate the pituitary to signal normal HPTA activity.

It's not for everybody and you have to decide if the risks are worth it for you. I do not advocate or condemn...

 

[Get2choppaaa]

I cruised off and on from 2013 to 2016 then came off cold turkey after about two years of being 'on'. Tried to conceive with my then fiance' (bad idea) who's biological clock was ticking. Turns out that after three years of being 'off' cold turkey, I had ZERO sperm and T levels at about 300. My HPTA NEVER RECOVERED! I was 47 at the time and had already fathered two kids.

Fast forward to today, I'd been on for 2 and a half years: mostly Equipoise and Deca with a base Test Enanthate of around 700mg/wk with orals mixed in here and there. Been off for 8 weeks last week and had a PCT regimen of HCG, HMG, Nolvadex and over the counter herbs.
At 51 now, my system will never fully recover and I will be on exogenous Test for the rest of my life to one degree or another. I get it, it's a choice I made a long time ago.
Pros: Gym gains with proper diet and I just feel like a million bucks when 'on' if that makes sense.

Cons: Testicular atrophy, have to watch blood pressure and I have to take ancillaries to control Prolactin and Estrogen. Have to donate blood from time to time because of high red blood cells and hemacrit. Also, if you have problems with lust, those problems will be a great deal more difficult to control when 'on'.

Getting a home blood pressure tester and getting regular blood work is a must if you are going to be on exogenous T. Eventually I'll come down to HRT levels one day but I'm not ready for that yet. Just started Deca 600mg/wk and Test E 750mg/wk.

HCG helped bring the testicles back pretty quickly. The HMG mimics FSH and will get sperm production going for those out there who want to conceive. A Nolvadex or Clomid will help activate the pituitary to signal normal HPTA activity.

It's not for everybody and you have to decide if the risks are worth it for you. I do not advocate or condemn...

I know you're not suggesting the bold is a TRT Level... but for those unfamiliar...That's a whole whole whole lot more than TRT. (3-4 Times)

We had a baby while I was on a TRT Dose of 200mg Test cypionate per week dose...but I took HCG the entire time I've taken testosterone and also FSH during the period while we were trying to conceive. I had a decent spermatogenesis and motility level with out the FSH but the Dr suggested I take the FSH regardless. I had ZERO issues and we had a boy. But... My experience was not the normal one in that I never had any fertility abnormalities...normally people have to come off and do hcg and all of that.

That said:

I have on a couple of occasions taken Deca when rehabbing an injury and also taken up to 400mg test a week..all under doctor supervision... Never really gone into anything too crazy... And the 2x or 3x a year blood work is a must. Also a blood pressure cuff.

You can do these things safely... Or at least with minimal harm. But you're going to get some effects like blood pressure/lipid profile/hematocrit...and for many fertility issues.

Again this isn't advice. Just a statement of experience. I don't encourage people to go down that road unless their health is lacking and they are willing to be on a medicine for life. If you're wanting to have kids, it can be a bit of a challenge for many.

For me, it's been a good decision but I knew what I was doing. Maybe I'm wired differently... I've always been a bit of a neanderthal, but as far as anger or lust... I haven't really noticed a difference... My wife says I'm actually better when I'm taking more stuff and drinking less...so take that for what you will.

It's definitely different for each person and not something to do lightly. Id exhaust all the other options first.

 

[the beast1]

Bumping this thread.
I just had a physical two weeks ago and got my results back last week.
Everything was otherwise good except my free test levels are 260 ng/dl .

The last time I checked this it was in the 450s (2021).

Needless to say, I am floored it was so low. This is with regular exercise (4 days a week), zinc/mag, good diet and fats.

I have to test below 300 again in order for my insurance to cover test injections. That is in two weeks.

I’m still very much surprised. I will probably be shooting up test in a few weeks.

 

[Get2choppaaa]

Bumping this thread.
I just had a physical two weeks ago and got my results back last week.
Everything was otherwise good except my free test levels are 260 ng/dl .

The last time I checked this it was in the 450s (2021).

Needless to say, I am floored it was so low. This is with regular exercise (4 days a week), zinc/mag, good diet and fats.

I have to test below 300 again in order for my insurance to cover test injections. That is in two weeks.

I’m still very much surprised. I will probably be shooting up test in a few weeks.

Sounds like a solid case for it. You could likely skew those numbers up if you wanted. Otherwise just keep doing what you're doing. Free test can fluctuate as much as 100 points on a given day.

That's why it's not necessarily an accurate evaluation of life quality.

 

[the beast1]

Sounds like a solid case for it. You could likely skew those numbers up if you wanted. Otherwise just keep doing what you're doing. Free test can fluctuate as much as 100 points on a given day.

That's why it's not necessarily an accurate evaluation of life quality.

Health wise I feel fine but overall I just feel “old” if that’s the word for it.

Im thinking of helping the test by doing some drinking the night prior and taking the next day off regardless I’m looking forward to seeing where this goes. I was honestly thinking of just doing clomid and calling it a day but full on injectable test seems like it might just be the best option.

 

[staddlelateen]

I tried TRT for around 2 years at age 33-35. It was a mistake. I stopped and haven't used it in a year. Here's what they don't tell you:

• It tanks your FSH, which means over time it will destroy your sperm count.
• It causes acne. I had bad acne all over of my back and shoulders. Big painful pus-filled lumps.
• It can cause your testes to totally shut off production, so that you can no longer produce testosterone. That means you will need to take it for the rest of your life.
• It causes roid rage. I had bouts of uncontrollable anger while on it, which was very unusual for me, as I'm generally very even tempered. I almost fought my brother in one heated moment. If you have a wife and young kids who test your patience, the consequences can be severe.
• It causes emotionally instability. At the low end of the cycle, I felt depressed, irritable, and low energy. At the high end of the cycle, I felt aggressive and combative.

When I came off of TRT, I had to cycle HCG to manage my symptoms because I felt so horrible. Luckily, within a few months my testes managed to recover, and I can produce testosterone and FSH without any supplementation.

With all that said, I could see myself using it again in my 60s and 70s, when testosterone drops off a cliff and fertility is no longer an issue.

 

[Get2choppaaa]

I tried TRT for around 2 years at age 33-35. It was a mistake. I stopped and haven't used it in a year. Here's what they don't tell you:

• It tanks your FSH, which means over time it will destroy your sperm count.

Yes, which is why you take HCG during your trt regime To ensure fertility.

I've sired multiple kids on and off testosterone...recently had a baby last summer while taking a standard TRT Dose and HCG/FSH.

• It causes acne. I had bad acne all over of my back and shoulders. Big painful pus-filled lumps.

Never had that happen. Sounds like a hygiene and estrogen issue here. Sorry... But that is very very uncommon at TRT doses.

What was your estradiol? Were you on an AI?

• It can cause your testes to totally shut off production, so that you can no longer produce testosterone. That means you will need to take it for the rest of your life.

Yes. If you are going to get on... Stay on.

• It causes roid rage. I had bouts of uncontrollable anger while on it, which was very unusual for me, as I'm generally very even tempered. I almost fought my brother in one heated moment. If you have a wife and young kids who test your patience, the consequences can be severe.

No.

Never had roid rage. At 200mg a week you shouldn't be getting "roid rage"

Maybe If you're take 1000mg a week or Trenbalone Acetate...
But not on a TRT dose.

It's more likely youre already a dick and this just gives you an excuse to act out.

I say that as an aggressive person already.

A lot of emotional instability on Testosterone is due to estrogen issues.

• It causes emotionally instability. At the low end of the cycle, I felt depressed, irritable, and low energy. At the high end of the cycle, I felt aggressive and combative.

When I came off of TRT, I had to cycle HCG to manage my symptoms because I felt so horrible. Luckily, within a few months my testes managed to recover, and I can produce testosterone and FSH without any supplementation.

Why did you get on then?

With all that said, I could see myself using it again in my 60s and 70s, when testosterone drops off a cliff and fertility is no longer an issue.

 

[ginsu]

I cruised off and on from 2013 to 2016 then came off cold turkey after about two years of being 'on'. Tried to conceive with my then fiance' (bad idea) who's biological clock was ticking. Turns out that after three years of being 'off' cold turkey, I had ZERO sperm and T levels at about 300. My HPTA NEVER RECOVERED! I was 47 at the time and had already fathered two kids.

Fast forward to today, I'd been on for 2 and a half years: mostly Equipoise and Deca with a base Test Enanthate of around 700mg/wk with orals mixed in here and there. Been off for 8 weeks last week and had a PCT regimen of HCG, HMG, Nolvadex and over the counter herbs.
At 51 now, my system will never fully recover and I will be on exogenous Test for the rest of my life to one degree or another. I get it, it's a choice I made a long time ago.
Pros: Gym gains with proper diet and I just feel like a million bucks when 'on' if that makes sense.

Cons: Testicular atrophy, have to watch blood pressure and I have to take ancillaries to control Prolactin and Estrogen. Have to donate blood from time to time because of high red blood cells and hemacrit. Also, if you have problems with lust, those problems will be a great deal more difficult to control when 'on'.

Getting a home blood pressure tester and getting regular blood work is a must if you are going to be on exogenous T. Eventually I'll come down to HRT levels one day but I'm not ready for that yet. Just started Deca 600mg/wk and Test E 750mg/wk.

HCG helped bring the testicles back pretty quickly. The HMG mimics FSH and will get sperm production going for those out there who want to conceive. A Nolvadex or Clomid will help activate the pituitary to signal normal HPTA activity.

It's not for everybody and you have to decide if the risks are worth it for you. I do not advocate or condemn...

How did you deal with the estrogen and prolactin specifically to keep them under control and feel good on trt.

I agree with poster above from personal experience anger and emotional instability is more likely due to elevated estrogen. You didnt mention what doses you where on and what your overall hormanal where its pretty important for people to get an accurate idea about the context.

 

[Get2choppaaa]

How did you deal with the estrogen and prolactin specifically to keep them under control and feel good on trt.

I agree with poster above from personal experience anger and emotional instability is more likely due to elevated estrogen. You didnt mention what doses you where on and what your overall hormanal where its pretty important for people to get an accurate idea about the context.

That's right.

An aromitase inhibitor....

A baseline series of tests would establish:

What are your levels of E2/estradiol.

If user is taking 500 mg of test .... Yeah you're gonna be a little more moody, you're also 4- 5x natural test dose ... So you're gonna act like a pissy teenager if you don't have estrogen control due to aromitization.

 

[staddlelateen]

Yes, which is why you take HCG during your trt regime To ensure fertility.

I've sired multiple kids on and off testosterone...recently had a baby last summer while taking a standard TRT Dose and HCG/FSH.


Never had that happen. Sounds like a hygiene and estrogen issue here. Sorry... But that is very very uncommon at TRT doses.

What was your estradiol? Were you on an AI?

Yes. If you are going to get on... Stay on.

No.

Never had roid rage. At 200mg a week you shouldn't be getting "roid rage"

Maybe If you're take 1000mg a week or Trenbalone Acetate...
But not on a TRT dose.

It's more likely youre already a dick and this just gives you an excuse to act out.

I say that as an aggressive person already.

A lot of emotional instability on Testosterone is due to estrogen issues.


Why did you get on then?

How did you deal with the estrogen and prolactin specifically to keep them under control and feel good on trt.

I agree with poster above from personal experience anger and emotional instability is more likely due to elevated estrogen. You didnt mention what doses you where on and what your overall hormanal where its pretty important for people to get an accurate idea about the context.

Roid rage, emotionally instability, and acne issues all stopped completely when I came off TRT. I had my blood measured every 3 months, and there were no abnormalities with estrogen. I did the TRT with a TRT clinic. Cost me $200 every 3 months.

I originally went on TRT because my testosterone was on the low end. It still is now, but I'm much happier with that than dealing with TRT. As I said, I could see myself going back on in my 60s when fertility isn't an issue and when my testosterone drops of the cliff completely.

 

[staddlelateen]

Roid rage, emotionally instability, and acne issues all stopped completely when I came off TRT. I had my blood measured every 3 months, and there were no abnormalities with estrogen. I did the TRT with a TRT clinic. Cost me $200 every 3 months.

I originally went on TRT because my testosterone was on the low end. It still is now, but I'm much happier with that than dealing with TRT. As I said, I could see myself going back on in my 60s when fertility isn't an issue and when my testosterone drops of the cliff completely.

Oh, I just remember another huge negative side effect: it spikes your LDL cholesterol, total cholesterol, and non-HDL cholesterol. I was in the danger zone while on TRT. When I came off TRT, my cholesterol numbers dropped significantly.

 

[Get2choppaaa]

Oh, I just remember another huge negative side effect: it spikes your LDL cholesterol, total cholesterol, and non-HDL cholesterol. I was in the danger zone while on TRT. When I came off TRT, my cholesterol numbers dropped significantly.

Yeah all this is dirt related.


Again you may have had these effects occur but what were your pre and post trt blood makers.


And how much test were you on and what was your e2 before and after 3 or 6 or 12 months?

That's relevant in the discussion.

 

[ginsu]

That's right.

An aromitase inhibitor....

A baseline series of tests would establish:

What are your levels of E2/estradiol.

If user is taking 500 mg of test .... Yeah you're gonna be a little more moody, you're also 4- 5x natural test dose ... So you're gonna act like a pissy teenager if you don't have estrogen control due to aromitization.

What would be the safest aproach to aromatase inhibitors ?. Which brands are good ?. what would be minimal dosages and frequencies to start if your e2 is above the range. I have heard a lot of bad opinions about aromatase inhibitors especially long term use inducing bone weakening effects. even so i am willing to give it a shot if and when i do go back on. The last time i quit because of e2 and a clinic that was just a money grab.