Sometimes you just have to move on right?

FrancisK said:
I don't usually reveal this much of my personal life and I usually do my best not to show any weakness but I could use some thoughts and words from some brothers.

I'm 39 I want to get married and have kids, I don't have a problem finding girls they line them up for me from the other side at every family party. But I don't want a submissive concubine and that's pretty much all that would be, although at this point I'm probably better off going that route it seems.

I've been dating a good woman for a decent time now and we were serious in regards to marriage and children, we both wanted it. The problem is that as much as her and I are great together she would irrationally lose her mind on me over nonsensical hypocritical things. Big blowups over things that were just silly and no matter how much I reason with her she thinks it's okay to give me hell for these things, like if I had to work late on a Monday so I couldn't come over so that meant there was someone else even though I was there every day the week prior. Like being an hour late and it meant I was a liar no matter how well I explained with rationale and logic what happened and I did actually leave work when I said I did. I just couldn't reason with her.

But then eventually she would just turn it off like a switch, saying she didn't mean any of it as bad she just wants to move on and "be happy". It was maddening I could never understand it, I'm treated like a murderer defending myself to hell and back over nothing then it's just no big deal at the drop of a hat because she "wants to be happy and I'm always negative and can't be happy".

Out last fight was last night and I think I finally figured it out. She's big on the self help inspirational crap, like read all the books listen to the tapes and Google every situation and take someone else's words to heart....something I have zero interest in. So I figured out that the reason why I can never get through to her, no matter what she does or says it's no big deal and can just be done with it like nothing happened, is because in her mind everything is positive. You would think this is a good thing but it's not, let me explain.

Last night we got into it and in the course of that I told her she always accuses me of cheating. She flipped out when I told her that saying she had NEVER accused me of cheating. Mind you two weeks prior we had fought because I had to work late and she accused me of being with someone else! I called her out on this and apparently to her this wasn't accusing me of cheating, my head wanted to explode. But it all makes sense to me now, anything she says or does that is bad or cruel in her mind it wasn't actually that. In her mind it was positive and fine, everything is always positive and fine and that's just how it always has to be in her head so she'll never see any of my reasoning as to how she was treating me and was wrong for doing that to me. I don't think it makes her a bad person but I'll just never get anywhere with her, everything will always be a battle because anything she says or does will always be positive in her mind even when it's not, it's actually cruel and condescending. No reasoning or logic I will ever provide to show her that she is wrong will matter, her words and actions are always positive in her mind even when they are very obviously not. Not positive as in she's always right and I'm always wrong, positive as in her own words were just never bad....they were positive things and okay as she had taught herself to always be positive.

At this point it doesn't matter how much I love her, it doesn't matter how much I have invested....i'll never be able to reason with her there is nothing I can do but let it go and move on. I think she needs someone that just doesn't care, someone who is happy that they can just say "sorry" no matter what it was and not really care and it will be over, someone who doesn't try to make her understand so that it changes just blow it off and to her thats fine it will be positive. It just is what it is.

I don't even know why I'm typing this out, just wanted to get it off my chest....thanks brothers.
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99%+ of women these days are toxic that is just the modern world we live in. You cannot do anything to fix them. When you notice the toxicity next her fast. Unfortunately I tend to hang around even with women that are far from ideal even though I shouldn't just because I do not have better options. That is still not a valid excuse. We all have to battle our thirst/loneliness demons.

I found in general if you feel you have to work hard at making a relationship work it means its not the right woman. With the right woman things will be peaceful and easy 99% of the time. And yes its possible for a woman to have personality and humour and character while still being feminine and not being a robotic, submissive concubine. Although that being said if you cannot find the right woman and decide to compromise a submissive concubine is better than a crazy lady 100% of the time.
 
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Sanctus said:
My mistake, but my point still stands. Dumb advice.
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Huh? @Australia Sucks isn’t wrong. If you pick a woman who adores and is in love with you, it will be much more smooth sailing than having a bpd girl or psycho in your house. That’s not to say relationships aren’t work. Just because you don’t have this sort of peace, don’t knock others who do. It’s too bad guys picked the potentially wrong women like the OP, and locale matters. Your comment boils down to it doesn’t matter who you pick and you will suffer greatly with every woman out there. Now that sir is dumb advice!
 
Sanctus said:
Who told you this nonsense?
Another Online Christian who seems to know it all when it comes to women. How many successful marriages have you had?
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So, it can happen, a marriage where things are generally easy. I'm in a marriage like that. I'd actually say things are smooth with my wife more than 99% of the time. In the rare moments when she gets mad at me I usually laugh at her and that smooths things over. In the even rarer cases where that doesn't work and she wants to have a serious talk about her feelings or our relationship or something stupid like that, I take her to the bedroom and deal with her roughly. This hasn't failed me yet.

I attribute the blissful state of our marriage both to her being a good Christian woman and all the great advice I learned about women on RVF 1.0, during the bad old PUA days. I'm not kidding. It really is possible to use game for good instead of evil. I'd say you must learn to do this unless you really want to be a typical AFC (average frustrated chump) in a marriage that is "a lot of hard work" for some reason.

It probably helps that she's a Latina from south of the border who was a virgin when I met her. Regardless, in my opinion, the idea that marriage has to be "difficult" and "take a lot of work" is an insidious blue pill and I feel very sorry for guys who think that. There are lots of very blue pill ideas about women on this forum, and it makes me sad for you guys.
 
scary_robot_music said:
It probably helps that she's a Latina from south of the border who was a virgin when I met her. Regardless, in my opinion, the idea that marriage has to be "difficult" and "take a lot of work" is an insidious blue pill and I feel very sorry for guys who think that. There are lots of very blue pill ideas about women on this forum, and it makes me sad for you guys.
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So you picked wisely! Some guys here seem to have picked terrible partners and then want to spread the marriage and relationships are hell to the rest of us. Or they marry a psycho western woman, or they aren’t as valuable as they think, or they have no idea how to emotionally and physically please a woman, or whatever it is. Doesn’t have to be that way.
 
My mother and both of my sisters in their 30s also do this "everything has to be positive" thing and live in denial with lack of accountability. I also get stuck being labeled "always so negative" for pointing out obvious truths and sticking to my guns.

Off the top of my head, I think part of what is exacerbating this is things like new age literature (Think The Law of Attraction, Deepak Chopra, Eckhart Tolle, Osho, etc etc. Along these lines), and very much social media like Faceook and Instagram that perpetually highlight and draw forth hyper-positive channels of people's lives - a happy simulacrum. There's also things like YouTube that are flooded with guru-like women promoting nonsense in a similar light of "positive vibes only".

This type of thinking is really dangerous. I'm an alcoholic so going through the process of recovery was very difficult with my mother and sisters because they refused to believe anything "negative" about me. They flat out ignored or debated me on my struggles with poisoning myself because they cannot have anything in their web/nest be seen as "negative".

Whenever they all get together, they go into manic fits of hysteria (Super giddy, uncontrollable laughter, non-stop joking), basically turning into a group of witches. Seriously. It's really strange. When this is coupled with their drinking it's extremely challenging to navigate these social gatherings. Feels demonic.

Last time I met up with them they were doing this around a candle, listening to weird music, drinking, and high on marijuana. Could barely get a word in. Super weird.

They are all so obsessed with cooking, food, and eating that it becomes very exhausting (Planned/talked about way too far in advance). Entire 'holidays' or weekends revolving around talking about eating, preparing for eating, and eating. Elevated topics are categorized as "negative" and mocked.

This feminist spirit wants heaven on earth. Feels like witchcraft. Earth worship...it's a false idol paradigm.

Hinduism is very attractive to them. They believe all religions worship the same God. To disagree with other religions is "negative" or even hateful (Notice Hinduism takes a lax view on things like homosexuality, which is attractive to many women because it's "positive").

This ties in to the strong female interest in things like yoga also...

The confusing thing is, they also outwardly attend Church and call themselves Christian (Be very careful here guys), but they break very obvious commandments and when I gently point this out, again, I'm the "negative" or "unloving" one.

My mom literally thought "Thall shall not judge" and "We all worship the same God" were commandments lol. These are just false beliefs she carried that made her feel good.

Again, when this is pointed out, no accountability. It's clear she will keep her stubborn false ideology and anytime I bring it up there is a circular thought process.

'Cult of Eve' vibes. "Maybe Eve was right?" Also, look up Marcionism. "Old testament God was evil" type of thinking - punishments not allowed. It's like daddy issues on a grand scale, but it's God the Father. This is all gnosticism.

True negative vs positive thinking is much more simple and clear, and is expressed in St Paisios's parable of the "Bees and the Flies". Of course we don't want to be someone who is of the flies but at the same time we cannot pretend we don't live in a fallen world. This requires deep humility.

This is a whole nother topic. I'll stop here, I'm getting in the weeds. I think you get my point...
 
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TrainedLogosmotion said:
My mother and both of my sisters in their 30s also do this "everything has to be positive" thing and live in denial with lack of accountability. I also get stuck being labeled "always so negative" for pointing out obvious truths and sticking to my guns.

Off the top of my head, I think part of what is exacerbating this is things like new age literature (Think The Law of Attraction, Deepak Chopra, Eckhart Tolle, Osho, etc etc. Along these lines), and very much social media like Faceook and Instagram that perpetually highlight and draw forth hyper positive channels of people's lives - a happy simulacrum. There's also things like YouTube that are flooded with guru-like women promoting nonsense in a similar light of positive vibes only.

This type of thinking is really dangerous. I'm an alcoholic so going through the process of recovery was very difficult with my mother and sisters because they refused to believe anything "negative" about me. That flat out ignored or debated me on my struggles with poisoning myself because they cannot have anything in their web/nest be seen as "negative".

Whenever they all get together, they go into manic fits of hysteria (Super giddy, uncontrollable laughter, non-stop joking), basically turning into a group of witches. Seriously. It's really strange. When this is coupled with their drinking it's extremely challenging to navigate these social gatherings. Feels demonic.

They are all so obsessed with cooking, food, eating that it becomes very exhausting. Entire weekends revolving around talking about eating, preparing for eating, and eating. Elevated topics are categorized as "negative" and mocked.

This feminist spirit wants heaven on earth. Feels like witchcraft. Earth worship. I'll stop here, I'm getting in the weeds. I think you get my point...
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It's a different set of circumstances but it sounds like you exactly understand the situation with this girl. Her positivity towards everything she does even when it wasn't something positive and actually quite condescending and wrong is toxic. It took me much longer than it should have to realize what was happening but once I did I had finally figured out why this girl who claims to love me so much and does show that love treats me like I'm the devil off of nothing at the drop of a hat and then can just pick up the hat like it never happened driving me crazy. It's sad because I put a lot into her and she gives a lot back but it was just never going to be good enough because she will never realize the reality of her words and actions. I can reason with words and actions that are in front of me but I can't reason with those words and actions if her head is always telling her they are positive when they are not.
 
FrancisK said:
It's a different set of circumstances but it sounds like you exactly understand the situation with this girl. Her positivity towards everything she does even when it wasn't something positive and actually quite condescending and wrong is toxic. It took me much longer than it should have to realize what was happening but once I did I had finally figured out why this girl who claims to love me so much and does show that love treats me like I'm the devil off of nothing at the drop of a hat and then can just pick up the hat like it never happened driving me crazy. It's sad because I put a lot into her and she gives a lot back but it was just never going to be good enough because she will never realize the reality of her words and actions. I can reason with words and actions that are in front of me but I can't reason with those words and actions if her head is always telling her they are positive when they are not.
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Honestly, it feels demonic to me. Is she going to Church with you? Can you get her to a Priest? I don't know. Perhaps it's worth saving? Your logic butting up against her 'hysteria' probably isn't going to do any good, it'll just be a circle. Maybe Holy Sacremental Mysteries are the only way to straighten this out. Again, I don't know...
 
TrainedLogosmotion said:
Honestly, it feels demonic to me. Is she going to Church with you? Can you get her to a Priest? I don't know. Perhaps it's worth saving? Your logic is butting up against her probably isn't going to do any good, it'll just be a circle. Maybe Holy Sacremental Mysteries are the only way to straighten this out. Again, I don't know...
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She's not demonic she's not a bad person and she is religious and goes to church. It's just the mentality she has created for herself thinking that it's a good thing for her. Her accusing me of cheating, calling me a liar, telling me constantly everything I do wrong...to her these are positive things in her mind she's just telling me how she feels and I shouldn't be upset over these things because again....everything is positive. To me these are horrible things that I can't just dismiss as being okay but to her it's just move on and be positive. So in reality I'm creating the fight because I'm upset for being trashed on and trying to defend myself from the woman I love thinking these things of me, to her there was no fight to have at all. It's incredibly frustrating and it's as if it doesn't matter what I do or don't do I get the same result. I can do everything she wants in every way and the moment I do something that perhaps isn't what she wants that's it....I'm the devil. There is no slack, no leeway, no accumulation of the past just I did something she didn't want and that's it. To her it's okay to come down on me, she's just telling me how she feels and it's a positive thing even if she doesn't realize that the words and accusations are incredibly hurtful and wrong.

The past month or so I'll be honest I've just been kinda withdrawn from the whole situation because it eats me alive and I know no matter what I do it's coming. Which is sad because she's my best friend and I love being with the girl but I can't live like that and of course that has made her come down on me even harder. I've had some crazy personal things going on to use as an excuse but if I'm being real about it I'm just tired of being constantly beat down even if she doesn't actually mean it that way.
 
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Caduceus said:
BPD (borderline personality disorder) is also possible, but it's much more extreme and rare.
If it really is BPD,, then I suggest OP to run, not walk....but RUN AWAY from any girl who has BPD.
BPD girls are the types who make false abuse and rape accusations to the police and get your ass landed in jail.
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BPD is not rare, it's in fact the most common personality disorder. That said, there is a spectrum of BPD. From just being "a bit difficult" to "I need to cut myself to ease the pain".
In any case, I second that notion: RUN! I had a girlfriend with BPD-traits and it was torture sprinkled with pieces of heaven in between.
 
FrancisK said:
she's not a bad person and she is religious
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I'm not trying to be combative but I just want to say that I don't think anyone is a 'good' person. And based on what I wrote previously it's obvious that "religious" can mean several things.

I'm not trying to say she's some kind of evil, demon-possessed psychopath on the verge of bloody murder, either.

A lot of times I feel demonic influence flies under the radar or is very subtle. It's deceptive. If this is happening, it's not her, it's sin and evil spirits, however, giving into pride and stubbornness is willingly making these falls worse.

I don't want to sound accusatory or like a know it all, because I'm not. Just trying to help. God bless you both. 🙏
 
TrainedLogosmotion said:
I'm not trying to be combative but I just want to say that I don't think anyone is a 'good' person. And based on what I wrote previously it's obvious that "religious" can mean several things.

I'm not trying to say she's some kind of evil, demon-possessed psychopath on the verge of bloody murder, either.

A lot of times I feel demonic influence flies under the radar or is very subtle. It's deceptive. If this is happening, it's not her, it's sin and evil spirits, however, giving into pride and stubbornness is willingly making these falls worse.

I don't want to sound accusatory or like a know it all, because I'm not. Just trying to help. God bless you both. 🙏
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Thank you brother, no not at all and I sincerely appreciate the insight and words. She definitely does think very highly of herself that is for sure, again with the everything is positive. I tell her a lot "you need to think more about the things you say", there is a strange narcissistic quality she has that perhaps is subconscious and I also see that in members of her family....again going back to the upbringing. Not bad people by any means narcissistic perhaps isn't the right word, it's just things I'm trying to wrap by brain around as to why all this happened.

God bless you and yours brother thank you
 
FrancisK said:
....she's my best friend and I love being with the girl but....
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Your wife/girlfriend should never be your "best friend"
That sort of mindset always leads to problems in intimate relationships with women.
Setups with your wife/girlfriend always should be framed in a way where you are ultimately in charge even if you are taking into account to what she says.

 
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FrancisK said:
She's not demonic she's not a bad person and she is religious and goes to church. It's just the mentality she has created for herself thinking that it's a good thing for her. Her accusing me of cheating, calling me a liar, telling me constantly everything I do wrong...to her these are positive things in her mind she's just telling me how she feels and I shouldn't be upset over these things because again....everything is positive. To me these are horrible things that I can't just dismiss as being okay but to her it's just move on and be positive. So in reality I'm creating the fight because I'm upset for being trashed on and trying to defend myself from the woman I love thinking these things of me, to her there was no fight to have at all. It's incredibly frustrating and it's as if it doesn't matter what I do or don't do I get the same result. I can do everything she wants in every way and the moment I do something that perhaps isn't what she wants that's it....I'm the devil. There is no slack, no leeway, no accumulation of the past just I did something she didn't want and that's it. To her it's okay to come down on me, she's just telling me how she feels and it's a positive thing even if she doesn't realize that the words and accusations are incredibly hurtful and wrong.

The past month or so I'll be honest I've just been kinda withdrawn from the whole situation because it eats me alive and I know no matter what I do it's coming. Which is sad because she's my best friend and I love being with the girl but I can't live like that and of course that has made her come down on me even harder. I've had some crazy personal things going on to use as an excuse but if I'm being real about it I'm just tired of being constantly beat down even if she doesn't actually mean it that way.
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Take video of her acting badly, and show it to her later, and tell her this kind of behavior must stop. Tell her if she's imagining her behavior is ok, then she needs to realize that you are seeing what the video shows.

I never actually recorded video, but in later years after I took the red pill, I would tell my wife that she needed to straighten up or I would take a video of her and post it on Facebook. I only actually pulled out my phone once as if to start recording. She was sufficiently self aware to realize her behavior would not look good on video, and so she would settle down and act decent.

Here is the classic example. Unfortunately I could only find it as part of a news clip, but you can see the recording of the wife.

 
My wife was like that early in our marriage. She would completely lose her mind, be violent, and escalate until I had to leave the house. I often thought of leaving her. Over time, I realized that I had my own baggage that was feeding into her behaviour. Then, I learned more about her family and saw that she learned much of her behaviour from her parents. Then, I looked at my own family and realized that I learned many of my bad habits from my own family. Eventually, the best thing for our marriage was meeting with a Catholic priest (a real one, not one from the Vatican 2 church), and he helped us work through our selfishness, baggage, and our fights.

We still have fights, but now they are much easier to manage because we both understand that our marriage is forever, and we created a bond with God that we have no right to separate. I will note that we got married early in our early 20s, so much of the process was also us maturing as we grew older together. I don't think I could go through the process at my current age of 36, so I thank God everyday I found my soul mate in my 20s.

Anywho, my advice is to talk to a real Catholic priest about your troubles and see if they can be resolved before marriage. Once you are married that's it, you are stuck with her until one of you dies.
 
scary_robot_music said:
It probably helps that she's a Latina from south of the border who was a virgin when I met her. Regardless, in my opinion, the idea that marriage has to be "difficult" and "take a lot of work" is an insidious blue pill and I feel very sorry for guys who think that. There are lots of very blue pill ideas about women on this forum, and it makes me sad for you guys.
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It is no coincidence that every developed society throughout the world valued chastity until marriage. It is immeasurably better for both partners, but particularly the woman. I really do feel empathy for them, because so many of them are ruined, and there is really no salvaging their situation. If you understand that women do not truly have agency, then you also understand that this wasn't their fault, either. Sad state of affairs.

But yeah look at any old black and white film and see how the men behave. The idea of struggling or suffering or being in a "difficult" marriage was unimaginable. (Of course then, it was expected that the woman was either a virgin, or a widow, and in the latter case, she really needed a man even more and probably went above and beyond with her behavior and attitude.





Girls who view men this way still exist, outside the west. Maybe a few Amish ones too I guess.
 
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