Patriot Front (and other White Nationalist Groups)

[Samseau]

Most churches in the US are not Orthodox, and most Americans are not likely to take up Orthodoxy any time soon, as good as that would be for the country.

Orthodoxy is still 200,000-300,000x more members than pagan front, so it is hypocrisy for you to defend PF and attack the other on this ground. Far more people are caught up and informed about Orthodoxy, which is easy to teach because everyone knows Christianity at least vaguely, than pagan front, which is a fringe group that 99.99% of America has never heard of.

 

[Christos_NIKA]

I have changed jobs and moved between different places in America several times within the last few years, so I've been in a number of different Orthodox parish communities in different parts of the country.
Every Orthodox church I've experienced has reported strong growth. And I've seen it myself, sometimes pretty rapidly.

The Orthodox Church is one of the fastest growing (if the not the fastest) in America, percentage-wise (current membership:new members). The fact that most people don't see it is due to the fact that America has 225+ years of Catholic and Protestant history, whereas Orthodoxy has only just 30 years ago come out from under the yoke of Communism and in the case of Greece, only 100 years ago after 500 years under the Ottoman yoke. Check back in 200 years and half of America will likely be Orthodox, and Amish or Mormon...ok, maybe 1/3 of each. The last two merely due to their extremely high birth rates.

 

[fokm]

Orthodoxy is still 200,000-300,000x more members than pagan front, so it is hypocrisy for you to defend PF and attack the other on this ground. Far more people are caught up and informed about Orthodoxy, which is easy to teach because everyone knows Christianity at least vaguely, than pagan front, which is a fringe group that 99.99% of America has never heard of.

Where have I attacked Orthodoxy? Where have I even praised Paganism? Please show me. Otherwise I politely ask you to take back your accusation.

 

[DanielH]

1. Orthodoxy, and Christianity as a whole is a nationalist religion, meaning individual ethnic/cultural groups are respected as such. Paul considered himself an ethnic Jew even after embracing Christ. Christ Himself came first to the Jews. Many many saints put their own people first. This is not controversial.

2. Patriot Front is an American nationalist, secular organization, welcoming people of several faiths. Orthodoxy has never prevented people from joining such organizations, as nothing in it is contrary to the faith. PF is NOT a Church or a religious minded organization, that is way down on their list of priorities, just like it is with the NRA, which is not religion specific. Likewise there are anti-abortion activist groups that don't care what religion you are as long as you are anti-abortion. Are those groups against Orthodoxy because they would permit pagan members? (rhetorical question - no)

Given 1 and 2, I argue there is no moral impediment for an Orthodox Christian to support PF.

Given all of the above, calling PF "pagan Front" is a childish and slanderous insult and is as logical as calling the NRA the "Pagan Rifle Association."

 

[Iacobus]

To get back on topic, something I find myself thinking a lot about is White American identity. I believe that this racial identity is very unique and difficult to grapple with because of the fact that it is, essentially, an emerging synthetic identity. A generic White-European identity wasn't a thing before America... people naturally considered themselves as Anglo-Saxons, Celts, Frenchmen, Italians, Germanics, Scandinavians and so forth. Other Europeans would be seen as more closely related than Arabs, Asians etc., but at the same time they did not share a national, cultural or racial identity in the way White Americans are now faced with. They had different languages, different cultures, different dispositions, different lifestyles, different skin and hair hues.

Only in America over the last few hundred years did these European cultures get mashed up and turned into a White American identity with, in most cases, only a vague identification with any specific ancestral European culture. I personally am a pretty classic example wherein I am 100% European-American but according to my study of my ancestry, no one race, culture or nation comports more than ~20% of my genetic background. This makes it very difficult to return to tradition because there is no singular tradition belonging to me and the millions of White American like me before the relatively recent establishment of America, which for all its political strength in the Constitution and such documents, also had questionable weaknesses and motivations.

Should mixed European-Americans be denied of the ability to have a shared cultural, racial and national identity? Certainly not and the pushback against Jewish-Marxist desire to erase the possibility of a positive White American identity is very much needed. But I think we should be frank about the synthetic nature of this identity and the importance of how we choose to construct and accept it. This is why I am critical of PF's manifesto, because this is their attempt to draw up and synthesize this identity. For all the differences between those European peoples, I see no greater common denominator than worship of Christ, and in fact I think the founding fathers' failure to more explicitly enshrine the nation as one founded on and adhering to Christian principles rather than Enlightenment/masonic principles was possibly their biggest mistake (other than the whole 'importing countless Africans' thing which can hardly be blamed on them politically).

 

[fokm]

To get back on topic, something I find myself thinking a lot about is White American identity. I believe that this racial identity is very unique and difficult to grapple with because of the fact that it is, essentially, an emerging synthetic identity. A generic White-European identity wasn't a thing before America... people naturally considered themselves as Anglo-Saxons, Celts, Frenchmen, Italians, Germanics, Scandinavians and so forth. Other Europeans would be seen as more closely related than Arabs, Asians etc., but at the same time they did not share a national, cultural or racial identity in the way White Americans are now faced with. They had different languages, different cultures, different dispositions, different lifestyles, different skin and hair hues.

I just saw this video earlier today:

https://gab.com/KeepNHGranite/posts/112034001918406438

Very famous clip to anyone aware of the JQ.

Barbara Lerner Spectre says "at this point in time Europe has not yet learned to be multicultural."

Except that when she made the statement, Europe consisted of Spanish, Germans, French, Irish, British, Norwegian, Swedish, etc., each with their own customs (many shared, admittedly), art, architecture, dress, and food.

The idea that Europe hasn't always been multicultural is nonsense -- but that doesn't stop people like Barbara Spectre from using that argument to change the racial demographic.

Even when they are being honest, they lie.

 

[DanielH]

Only in America over the last few hundred years did these European cultures get mashed up and turned into a White American identity with, in most cases, only a vague identification with any specific ancestral European culture. I personally am a pretty classic example wherein I am 100% European-American but according to my study of my ancestry, no one race, culture or nation comports more than ~20% of my genetic background. This makes it very difficult to return to tradition because there is no singular tradition belonging to me and the millions of White American like me before the relatively recent establishment of America, which for all its political strength in the Constitution and such documents, also had questionable weaknesses and motivations.

Should mixed European-Americans be denied of the ability to have a shared cultural, racial and national identity?

I think this right here is one of the core issues. You're far from the only person I've heard of like this. As someone whose family has been here for centuries, with 81% of my genes coming from the British Isles, I consider you as American as me, if you choose to identify as such. We're outnumbered and need allies, and I'm not going to be an ethnic purist. My son is a bit less ethnically Anglo or whatever than me, his mother being more Slavic and Germanic, but I plan on raising him as an American, not this and that and the other thing.

For people of a mixed European background like you, it might be difficult to identify fully with flawed people like the American forefathers with freemasonic and enlightenment ideals, but I find it suffices given that you are probably someone who looks like me who also has no place to go to except America and we are both persecuted for the same reasons. If, someone were, say 75% Swedish, with dual citizenship, then I would not consider that person an American as they have a homeland to return to. Heritage Americans have nowhere to run, unlike African Americans (permitted to move to certain African countries), Jews, Hispanics, Asians, or most any recent immigrant, unless they are a genuine Christian refugee from a country that overtly persecutes them.

 

[MusicForThePiano]

Mixed European backgrounds are not really "mixed" per se as the genetic markers all come from very similar origin points in time and geography. I myself come form at least 6 European nationalities in the past 500 years. But the lines were only blurred along linguistic and sectarian divides in the first millennium before Christ, more akin to regionalisms like a Texan compared to an Appalachian compared to a New Englander.

I think the confusion some of you are experiencing when analyzing the new-west American racial White identity from the hodgepodge of these European nations is the inherent desire, even if you don't believe in it, to profess a purity of one thing, and then being unable to do so because of the loss of ethnic tracing. This is where racial consciousness should step in, a consciousness that is steeped in a proper and accurate study of ancient genealogical histories (migrations as well) and relevant scriptural passages. Remember things were not always thus and written down, oral tradition held the victor's passage of time, both within the Church and without.

The many different hues of hair, skin tone, and eye colors of the White race and their geographical divisionary markers can be explained using human scientific terms, but it is also evident of God's distinction in creating those descended from Seth.

Yes we Whites have nowhere to run, that is why we must push back, or else face extinction. I believe the Church will save us, but it's up to the men in the high offices. Currently the mainstream official legal body of my Church will not, but up until 1958 it would have. This is why we can't just look at the Church as something that can never be corrupted, it too is an extension of the men in the offices, and all throughout the Papal and Synodal successions, many heretics and traitors were cast out for far lesser infractions than what the ones in Rome have been up to as of late. But we are the messengers of creation, the inheritors of the Covenant, and the stewards of God's trust, and that should be priority number one in every European man's agenda, to carry forth the commands of Our Father in Heaven, and in doing so, the enemies of God will not rout our kind and destroy us.

Look at this presentation, it shows the signs and symbols of the 12 tribes as they evolved over the course of the migration and formation of the European nations from the Holy Land. While we don't hear anything about this, I sincerely believe these kingdoms knew their origins, and their people were taught it. The works of the devil has made us forget who we are:

"Heraldry and Symbols of the 12 Tribes of Israel in Europe"

 

[Rax Moscow]

1. Orthodoxy, and Christianity as a whole is a nationalist religion

How is Christianity a nationalist religion? If anything, it seems the opposit.

While, as you point out, certain sects like Orthodoxy are traditional and could be considered "nationalist" though it's a rather apolitical religion. If you look at Christianity as a whole (particularly in America where the vast majority are evangelical Christians) I don't see much that could be called nationalism.

 

[DanielH]

How is Christianity a nationalist religion? If anything, it seems the opposit.

While, as you point out, certain sects like Orthodoxy are traditional and could be considered "nationalist" though it's a rather apolitical religion. If you look at Christianity as a whole (particularly in America where the vast majority are evangelical Christians) I don't see much that could be called nationalism.

See my previous post in this threat quoting the Moscow Patriarchate's official position

 

[GodfatherPartTwo]

How is Christianity a nationalist religion? If anything, it seems the opposit.

While, as you point out, certain sects like Orthodoxy are traditional and could be considered "nationalist" though it's a rather apolitical religion. If you look at Christianity as a whole (particularly in America where the vast majority are evangelical Christians) I don't see much that could be called nationalism.

The Reformation itself was a largely nationalistic movement. While the global scope of Christianity has always been the end goal, it has flourished in nationalistic expressions.

Even America's evangelical base makes up most of those who would oppose globalism.

 

[BrotherAugustine]

I don’t see many posts like this from Patriot Front.

 

[Samseau]

Where have I attacked Orthodoxy? Where have I even praised Paganism? Please show me. Otherwise I politely ask you to take back your accusation.

Literally the prior page you just criticized the Orthodox Church for being too small and insignificant, which is where I quoted you. Furthermore you've liked most pro-PF posts and have only made posts to criticize the perceived ineffectiveness of the Church, so it's not unreasonable to conclude you support one but not the other.

Finally, I never said anything about you supporting paganism. Nor did I even call you a hypocrite, I said "for you to praise one but not the other is hypocrisy," which it is, for reasons enumerated, at the top of this page at post 481, but this does not mean you are a hypocrite. It means you would be a hypocrite to hold a double-standard, which is why I pointed it out so you could avoid the error.

"For you" is a conditional statement, a "if/then" statement, not a statement of judgement.

1. Orthodoxy, and Christianity as a whole is a nationalist religion, meaning individual ethnic/cultural groups are respected as such. Paul considered himself an ethnic Jew even after embracing Christ. Christ Himself came first to the Jews. Many many saints put their own people first. This is not controversial.

2. Patriot Front is an American nationalist, secular organization, welcoming people of several faiths. Orthodoxy has never prevented people from joining such organizations, as nothing in it is contrary to the faith. PF is NOT a Church or a religious minded organization, that is way down on their list of priorities, just like it is with the NRA, which is not religion specific. Likewise there are anti-abortion activist groups that don't care what religion you are as long as you are anti-abortion. Are those groups against Orthodoxy because they would permit pagan members? (rhetorical question - no)

Given 1 and 2, I argue there is no moral impediment for an Orthodox Christian to support PF.

Given all of the above, calling PF "pagan Front" is a childish and slanderous insult and is as logical as calling the NRA the "Pagan Rifle Association."

Sorry, but Jesus disagrees.

Matt 12:30

"He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters."

Does Patriot Front ever signal their support for Jesus, or even God?

https://patriotfront.us/manifesto/

Go ahead, search for God, Jesus, or Christ. 0 mentions. They are not for Him, which means they are AGAINST Him.

I don't advise ignoring the Bible, especially the words of the Christ. That's a fast track to hell.

In addition to the above, we can apply Christ's rule to a huge number of organizations for some quick answers:

- Democrat party: Demonic to the core, zero mentions of Christ or God
- Republican party: God mentioned constantly, leading candidate Donald Trump will hold up the Bible and claim it's the greatest Book for all time, and promotes CHRISTmas. Does that mean they actually understand it? No, but they at least meet the bare minimum requirements of not being against Jesus and God.

- NRA: A single-purpose organization that doesn't focus on anything else except "God given right to self-defense," (see how they mention God there?) The NRA is obviously an implicitly Christian organization, implicit in protecting a right established in the Bill of Rights based on the idea that God described by Christ gives all men equal rights. This is further reinforced by the history of the NRA, which wasn't even a political organization but merely a gun hobby club. It only became political in the 70's as Chews took over the Dem party and Christians needed a way to defend their rights to self-defense. In fact, the right to self-defense was created only in Christian countries, to the best of my knowledge. In places like China, for millennia (it seems), one would be arrested if one hurt their attacker. This was only recently lifted within the past year(!): https://www.chinajusticeobserver.com/a/china-broadens-criteria-for-self-defense

So it makes no sense to call the NRA or Republican party Pagan, as they believe in a Christian God. Democrat party promotes all kind of fake religions or hates religion entirely, which makes them pagan or atheist.

Meanwhile "Patriot Front" has ZERO mentions of God or Christ in their manifesto, making them at best Pagan Front, but a more accurate term may be Atheist Front. I think Pagan Front is a bit more generous, so I gave them that name, but I hope I am not being disobedient to God for not calling out the evil accurately. They very well could be led by a pack of vicious atheists.

 

[fokm]

Hey @Samseau words matter. I said the majority of Americans aren’t going to be orthodox anytime soon. That is a far different thing than saying that the Orthodox Church is insignificant, which I never said or implied.

The majority of Americans are also not going to join PF. So…does that mean I’m ridiculing PF?

Believe it or not, I can actually like and appreciate both Orthodox Christianity and PF at the same time.

You’re a mod here and that conveys with it an air of responsibility. By intentionally miscategorizing my argument and then doubling down, I can only conclude you are arguing in bad faith, and I hope more people take notice of that.

We can disagree, but putting words and beliefs into someone that they do not have is no way for a good man to act, especially on a Christian forum.

 

[Samseau]

Hey @Samseau words matter. I said the majority of Americans aren’t going to be orthodox anytime soon. That is a far different thing than saying that the Orthodox Church is insignificant, which I never said or implied.

The majority of Americans are also not going to join PF. So…does that mean I’m ridiculing PF?

Believe it or not, I can actually like and appreciate both Orthodox Christianity and PF at the same time.

You’re a mod here and that conveys with it an air of responsibility. By intentionally miscategorizing my argument and then doubling down, I can only conclude you are arguing in bad faith, and I hope more people take notice of that.

We can disagree, but putting words and beliefs into someone that they do not have is no way for a good man to act, especially on a Christian forum.

Anyone can go back a page and see you are lying right now. You obviously wrote the original statement as a means to criticize the Church, to which Lacobus also picked up on. You made your comment directly after I posted the meme, highlighting the incredible ignorance of White Nationalists, which thus meant in context your post was a rebuttal to me. Labocus picked up on your context immediately, with the "classic two-pronged attack," and you did not claim he was mischaracterizing your arguments, indeed you doubled down and said most won't join the Orthodox Church (which is false, you have no idea how mass conversions have occurred before).

So how is Lacobus picked up on your context, and you replied to it without claiming he was in bad faith, yet when I do it, it's somehow a "mod problem"?

You realize most people can see how disingenuous you are right now, and your intended effect to make me look bad has now directly backfired on you.

This has become off-topic, and there will no longer be any more posts about this from me. You can have the last word if you wish but after that let it be or PM me.

 

[fokm]

Anyone can go back a page and see you are lying right now.

I'll save people the trouble. Here's my original statement in response to your meme, emphasis mine.

Most churches in the US are not Orthodox, and most Americans are not likely to take up Orthodoxy any time soon, as good as that would be for the country.

Lacobus then mirrored your argument and I told him he was right, and we both wound up agreeing with another point I made. Had you engaged me saying what he said, I would have responded the same way I responded to him.

Somehow that has all morphed into you stating that I am "attacking" Orthodoxy and believing Orthodoxy is "insignificant". For the record, I admire Orthodox Christians tremendously and absolutely wish its US popularity and power base would eclipse Catholicism. I think we'd all be better off. I do not believe Orthodoxy in the current year in its current form is "insignificant" at all in any way.

We'll get this back on topic but it's no wonder the American right is in the trouble it's in as I've seen similar conversations play out like this on boards like this and in real life. We agree on so much yet here we are, while the enemy further takes away our rights and our country.

 

[Bird]

You’re a mod here and that conveys with it an air of responsibility. By intentionally miscategorizing my argument and then doubling down, I can only conclude you are arguing in bad faith, and I hope more people take notice of that.

We can disagree, but putting words and beliefs into someone that they do not have is no way for a good man to act, especially on a Christian forum.

Yeah, this guy likes to make an argument for the sake of making an argument, driven by his pride. And if you dare to disagree, especially when it comes to Trump, you will be downvoted.

He should not be a moderator anymore!

 

[PurpleUrkel]

He (Samseau) should not be a moderator anymore!

Are you volunteering for the job?

I think Samseau does a great job at moderating while still being Samseau. The first time I got into it with him was about 10 or 12 years ago on RVF 1.0. He is a high IQ guy who is difficult to argue with and that can be frustrating. I don't know what your particular beef with him is but it sounds deep. I would suggest letting it go.

I was semi-unconsciously butt hurt by Samseau back in the day over an argument about California. I was saying how great it was and how much good sh*t has come out of Cali (Metallica, The Doors, Guns N Roses, Van Halen, Disney, Hughes Aircraft, JPL, Cal Tech, Long Beach Naval Shipyard, 1940s cinema, 7th largest economy in the world, etc., etc., etc.) and how beautiful it was (Big Sur, Yosemite, Joshua Tree, The Redwood Forest, etc., etc., etc.) and he was just adamant that it was an evil hellhole that had been invaded by illegals and taken over by debauched drug addled porn forces. It took me years to realize he was right and I was wrong.

Then I watched him basically call the 2016 Trump Train in Nostradamus like fashion and this gave me a new level of respect for him which I now carry over into his take on Patriot Front. Is he wrong and in the wrong sometimes? Sure, but who isn't? And if you live in a glass house don't throw stones (note to self on that one). He's been part of this a long time so I would suggest laying off and settling the score behind closed doors.

 

[MusicForThePiano]

There's a reason why only a natalist-populist movement that gathers steam and millions will revive what America was intended to be, perhaps this time without freemasonry and judaic infestation:

"Only People of European descent are American"


Patriot Front needs to move away from the masonic origins of the USA and choose a greater path of growth.

 

[It_Is_My_Time]

Looks like PF had a successful march on the 12th of March in Columbus, Ohio. It was questioned what they would do after Rousseau's arrest. Looks like they are staying active.