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Moving Abroad Before the Collapse

The question is are you doing everything you can to live a holy and spiritual life where you are? Or are you dreaming that some young trad waifu in rural Armenia is going to solve your life's problems and even your spiritual ones?
Were you not born into a family? What kind of statement is that? A waifu is going to solve my problems? Is this the same forum that makes fun of roasties? Yeah it will solve my problems. Same way a job solves problems.

You know what’s not going to solve my problems? Wasting away and making my parent’s sad. Especially considering an idle mind is the devil's workshop. Although perhaps this could be offset by me doing more of “everything”, it is true I’ve never washed a black man’s feet before.
 
Were you not born into a family? What kind of statement is that? A waifu is going to solve my problems? Is this the same forum that makes fun of roasties? Yeah it will solve my problems. Same way a job solves problems.

You know what’s not going to solve my problems? Wasting away and making my parent’s sad. Especially considering an idle mind is the devil's workshop. Although perhaps this could be offset by me doing more of “everything”, it is true I’ve never washed a black man’s feet before.
I would venture to say it depends largely on what types of problems we are talking about here.
In my experience, marriage is like a magnifying glass. It will magnify your good traits but it also brings personal problems and character flaws to the surface. For example: patience. If you are already a patient man, marriage will give ample opportunities to demonstrate said patience. However, on the flip side, if you struggle with being impatient about trivial things before marriage, this will be amplified even more after saying your vows.

That being said, if you are seeking a wife, great! If you are not ready, then keep working on yourself but also realize no one is ever really completely ready for it.

If you are interested in moving overseas, make a decent plan and at least try going to a couple other countries for a few weeks or something. Only you and God know what your intentions are so act accordingly, don't let some randos from the interwebs talk you out of taking action.
 


Correction, only people who don't believe in circles aren't allowed to go there. There is an ancient Biblical-mind-technology that was used to build the pyramids that one must employee to get to the land beyond the antarctic circle. So obviously atheists, trannies, homos, jews, and flat earthers can't go because they don't believe in anything but themselves.

No clue what you are trying to say. Sounds very snarky though, you would do extraordinarily well on reddit.
 

No clue what you are trying to say. Sounds very snarky though, you would do extraordinarily well on reddit.
Being a flat earther, it doesn't surprise me that you would be clueless. And it sounds snarky because I have a tendency to be that way. However, you are correct, I do do extraordinarily well on Reddit because I am a co-founder. My name is Aaron Hillel Swartz, and counter-semite to popular opinion I am not a usual suspect.
 
So to take the above quotes and apply them universally doesn’t make sense.
Context does matter, even if we are urging others on to do virtuous things. Sometimes I do feel people overdo the simpleton recommendation, but hey, that's just from being around a while.
Or are you dreaming that some young trad waifu in rural Armenia is going to solve your life's problems and even your spiritual ones?
I tend to agree with Sandalwood on a few things, as we mildly push back with the idea that one can't or should have some expectation for a wife, somehow or somewhere when one actually has objective qualities.
Yeah it will solve my problems. Same way a job solves problems.
This goes back to our other arguments and feeds some suspicion that I brought up in the other thread about men not caring about other men, or it being a dog eat dog deep down, and mostly the other stuff is lip service (you see this through action or inaction in this case). If you're trying in general, or wouldn't like to fall into lust or temptation as much, I think having a wife definitely and quite clearly does solve problems. It might create others, but that's a different issue and can be treated elsewhere or at another time.
I would venture to say it depends largely on what types of problems we are talking about here.
Yes, but many, and perhaps due to exhaustion or indifference, tend to just tell other people go be a eunuch, to put it shortly. I'm not being cynical but I suspect a lot of that competition and indifference that men have as a part of their nature has a lot to do with it, and we just aren't all that honest about it.

As a quick aside, I was on another forum that has professional people of a different field who do quite well, generally speaking. A guy on there messaged me amazed that I saw things in America as they are (as a man) since so few men realize just how ridiculous women are and how bad it is for men in early to middle age in America (money, status, etc don't do all that much for you unless you are a major media or sports/entertainment star and even then ...). He was apparently from the Middle East and remembered how much better his country was, or used to be. It was interesting. The point is, this is a type of matrix we live in and it truly is ridiculous. But because of wealth effect and propaganda, as well as loss of control of the society, we are in almost a taunting, humiliating project. Others see it, but it is rare to - and it was as if you had no chance unless you grew up like this guy did in a traditional and somewhat poor place. Something to consider or be reminded of.
 
Context does matter
People need to return to reality. Especially this self-flogging people push.

No, not everything is your own fault. There are definitely bad situations, bad odds and unfavorable conditions. There are definitely bad people and bad friends.

No, you’re not going “manifest” a good life. Sometimes continuing on the path you’re on is the bad option. Sometimes you carry too much baggage to “fix” things, sometimes people drag you down TOO much and sometimes you lack the strength to continue on. Only you know. Sometimes free-will is not so free. Sometimes things happen that burden you further, exasperating your problems.

So instead “self-actualization” that is so popular, it might be better off to return to the basics of actually living, seeking, feeling. Yes, this process requires naughty things like motivation and going against the grain. It will require “chasing” things. It’s not for you constantly pass judgment on yourself.

The problem with this concept of proving you’re a good little boy to God is you don’t know if this is true. I can say right now that I’m the nicest guy who deserves a wife. Well maybe I’ll break my vows when I get one? What then? If God “gave” me a wife, did I just make him look stupid in doing so? I’m not going to put it on God. I’m going to put it on myself. I want the wife, I’m going to look for her and whatever goes wrong thereafter is my problem.
 
The problem with this concept of proving you’re a good little boy to God is you don’t know if this is true. I can say right now that I’m the nicest guy who deserves a wife. Well maybe I’ll break my vows when I get one? What then? If God “gave” me a wife, did I just make him look stupid in doing so? I’m not going to put it on God. I’m going to put it on myself. I want the wife, I’m going to look for her and whatever goes wrong thereafter is my problem.

I agree that trying to prove you are a good boy to God is wrongheaded. This just misses the point of communion with Christ.

The seeking of a wife is a mysterious thing and there is a naturalness to it that is probably supposed to remain unspoken, even unexamined in some ways. The extreme unnaturalness of the world we live in leads to all this dysfunction including self-flogging.
 
People need to return to reality. Especially this self-flogging people push.
To be fair, I don't think the others are saying one should even try to self actualize or manifest anything. I think they are actually earnest in encouraging people to be faithful. The problem you and I have with it, at times, is that they come off with this magic God sentiment or they seem to push it, and as I've said we clearly have to do a lot, especially regarding certain topics or areas of life. I've also said I find the retrospective analysis both lame and unhelpful. If we have free will, of course everything that happened wasn't supposed to happen. It could have happened in all sorts of ways, I'm guessing bothgood and bad. I think I'm one of the few that truly believes there is a randomness built into the world that is actually mysterious and beautiful. The natural world shows us that. It doesn't do us created beings any good to try to think that everything has "been decided" out of time because that also necessitates us thinking we're "saved" in ways we might not be.
The seeking of a wife is a mysterious thing and there is a naturalness to it that is probably supposed to remain unspoken, even unexamined in some ways.
Yes, along these same lines, what I'm getting at with the above statements and my thoughts on all of this, and yes they are just thoughts, is that we are severely lacking in many of our attempts (even really smart or holy people) to explain even remotely what is going on some of the time. I think this may be on purpose or designed, possibly because we can't handle it. Here is the point of things: there are some things in life that are so important and obvious, and yet so many of us humans just flat out whiff and mess up, and it literally can mean life and death - and in absurd ways to boot. Covid? Animal attacks? Machine deaths? Uncommon over a long period of time but sometimes just ridiculous stuff. But it's not even that natural world randomness, something we know that exists, that is all that bothersome. It's that we all, even Orthodox (I think) believe that there are truly good things in the world. Then we chase them, and seemingly for good reason: working out, winning a game, being great at your job, having kids that are a good reflection on us, wanting them and us to do well, etc. But then comes the whoa, whoa whoa now, don't take that too far. Oh, you want a decent looking wife who brings something to the table? You think you need to go to another country to do that? Wait a minute there, that sounds like you're taking things into your own hands, and that is questionable. Possibly, it's not being faithful! Don't you dare! Ha, I think you all get the point.
 
Yes, along these same lines, what I'm getting at with the above statements and my thoughts on all of this, and yes they are just thoughts, is that we are severely lacking in many of our attempts (even really smart or holy people) to explain even remotely what is going on some of the time. I think this may be on purpose or designed, possibly because we can't handle it.

This explains why certain decisions only start to make sense in hindsight. I can think of some decisions I've made which I thought were completely justified in the present moment only later to understand that my actual motivation was problematic. Yet, even though I had made the problematic decisions, could see how God used it and/or redeemed it. A decision to move quite lines up with this type of situation.

It's that we all, even Orthodox (I think) believe that there are truly good things in the world. Then we chase them, and seemingly for good reason: working out, winning a game, being great at your job, having kids that are a good reflection on us, wanting them and us to do well, etc.

Oh, you want a decent looking wife who brings something to the table? You think you need to go to another country to do that? Wait a minute there, that sounds like you're taking things into your own hands, and that is questionable


Haha! This is true. Going back to your first point. We can't handle it, that is, knowing our own heart immediately. I think the best we can do most of the time is to at least recognize something could have been better. Realize some motivation could be better. See how God worked with it. But we can only go forward in the meantime, and as men we are the active part of humanity. I do think being able to be full of courage while executing just and wise decisions is the goal, ....and we learn by doing, and suffering though it.
 
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Being a flat earther, it doesn't surprise me that you would be clueless. And it sounds snarky because I have a tendency to be that way. However, you are correct, I do do extraordinarily well on Reddit because I am a co-founder. My name is Aaron Hillel Swartz, and counter-semite to popular opinion I am not a usual suspect.
You absolute alpha edglelord definetly not acting like a triggered teenager on her period that can't handle reality.
 
We can't handle it, that is, knowing our own heart immediately.
You're sort of missing my point here is that we don't and shouldn't tell people to not pursue X or be good and work at Y because you "should just reject the world" as it seems when people get advanced they recommend. That is interestingly a luxury that the achieved person has and creates a sort of paradox, of course. Along those lines, why shouldn't we pursue a good or better woman? Why do many at the site think that certain topics are only "for God" to fatalistically determine for us? That's what is what is questioned here.
 
I don't think anyone is really saying 'don't go abroad' even if they mention some negatives about it. I wouldn't actively try to discourage anyone from doing anything they feel compelled to do. I would just say be realistic and don't expect it to be a simple 'life sucks here but will be solved in a geopolitical climate aligned to my views with better women' cos yes that will solve some things it will create other problems. Life is a struggle. What can you do right now today to make things better for yourself?

If you can't leave in the immediate future right away you have no choice but to make the best of where you are. The good thing about developing a spiritual life is you don't need to be in optimum conditions (lol) to do it and in fact difficult conditions are arguably a better place to work on ones vices.

Is there a danger of saying 'just accept whatever miserable conditions you have and love God' or whatever kind of simplistic takedown of any kind of warnings about going abroad? Maybe you can interpret it that way but that just in a way further confirms this sort of myopic obsession you may have with being abroad. If it's that big a deal to you, do it. If you can' do it, make the best of where you are. And if you have some lag between also make the best of what you have now and work on yourself everyday as if you don't have much time left.

Listening striving towards an ideal isn't the worst thing but we do need to do what we can where we are day by day as well.
 
Listening striving towards an ideal isn't the worst thing but we do need to do what we can where we are day by day as well.
I agree with this. I don't want to speak for other people, but the woman thing is a lost cause for at least 1.5 generations. That's what is so stark. With opportunity for men (and all others) decreasing, it seems like it'll be even less likely that any pair bonding will occur. I hope I'm wrong.

What age do you all think is almost a guarantee that it's over in the west for you? The reason the whole thing is a problem is that you need experience in your 20s and by the mid 30s you are seen, instead of being tops, as "old" as if you are a woman at that age. It's really sad how bad he culture and its messages are. Even sadder that women are so beholden to it.
 
You're sort of missing my point here is that we don't and shouldn't tell people to not pursue X or be good and work at Y because you "should just reject the world" as it seems when people get advanced they recommend. That is interestingly a luxury that the achieved person has and creates a sort of paradox, of course. Along those lines, why shouldn't we pursue a good or better woman? Why do many at the site think that certain topics are only "for God" to fatalistically determine for us? That's what is what is questioned here.
I probably don't quite follow your point.

Is this a good rephrasing?:
Advanced people can say "reject the world" because they have the world to reject.

Less advanced people cannot because they do not have that luxury.

If that's it I think I see what you are saying but is that actually true? The less advanced people can be just as bad pining after the world as those who "have it".

But even so, seeking a good or better woman isn't in the same category as seeking the world.

Perhaps I need to go back and read what people have said regarding this fatalistic attitude in regards to God determining certain topics. That's not what I meant when I was taking about mystery being involved. Quite the opposite actually.
 
But even so, seeking a good or better woman isn't in the same category as seeking the world.
Yes. We have finally clarified things. Rich and poor (talented and not so talented) alike can chase "the world". What I'm getting at is that here the forum, or several members or types, conflate certain normal things in life - dedication, accomplishment, pursuing goals, etc as being worldly pursuits. That's the point we are making. I like the job analogy that Sandalwood brought up because it proves the point as to how ridiculous things can get at times, but yes, God still can be in "control." I know they are somewhat different, but no one would say in their right mind "If it is for your salvation, God will hook you up with a job." Rather, what I'm getting at is that there are some things that reducing them down don't make any sense to "just pray for" and be OK with it. If you don't go out and pound the pavement or try to get opportunities, by definition you won't get a job. As may be upcoming with the economy, perhaps there won't be many jobs left, like there aren't women, who knows. I just find it bizarre when older men (who are married to boot) talk about women and finding wives in this way. It seems utterly lacking for such an important part of life, and for the furthering of Orthodox people, let's say.
 
What age do you all think is almost a guarantee that it's over in the west for you? The reason the whole thing is a problem is that you need experience in your 20s and by the mid 30s you are seen, instead of being tops, as "old" as if you are a woman at that age. It's really sad how bad he culture and its messages are. Even sadder that women are so beholden to it.
It depends. For most, probably whenever they look like they're "beyond half her age plus seven years," but the key part is 'look like'.

You're not wrong about the cultures messages, but even with them there will be at least some people who operate more closely to normal instinct. Just some months ago I overheard some young female coworkers talk about how they like older men. "Because they take you places, and they show you around, etc" is what one said while the other nodded in agreement. "It's ok, as long as they look younger so you don't have to deal with it in public" they agreed with a couple soft chuckles. Those were American girls, too. I know guys who have age gaps of up to 13 years. Some times these are with foreign women, sometimes not. Most of the time those guys do look younger than they really are. Or have a more youthful spirit. But in spite of the zeitgeist, I really do believe that age gaps are an existing exception. Even barring the cougar thing(ha).

As for moving abroad, I might try it and see what happens. Maybe gain a skill that's usable back home and return in some time with a new skill to hopefully get a better job. But who knows? Maybe I'd somehow settle in and stay if that door would open for me.


Crap like this is why longer term can’t really hide in a red state unless something changes.
Exactly another reason not to rule out going abroad. When you make that move and see it coming for those treasured last few red states, too, you realize what you need as things get worse is connections. People you can rely on. A skill they can rely on you for. And some clean water nearby would probably help, too.
 
Just some months ago I overheard some young female coworkers talk about how they like older men. "Because they take you places, and they show you around, etc" is what one said while the other nodded in agreement. "It's ok, as long as they look younger so you don't have to deal with it in public" they agreed with a couple soft chuckles. Those were American girls, too. I know guys who have age gaps of up to 13 years. Some times these are with foreign women, sometimes not. Most of the time those guys do look younger than they really are. Or have a more youthful spirit. But in spite of the zeitgeist, I really do believe that age gaps are an existing exception.
I agree, and appreciate the anecdote. The problem in general with these topics is that the unicorn or very small percentage girl™ is that over a population, it doesn't really help. Why? There are too many adjunct characteristics for a match to work. So if you have only a tiny percentage of women even interested in some type of age gap, then you need race, then you need slim, then you need to actually be around them, then you need to break the social barrier (as they say), then ... see my point? In normal cultures, you get several possibilities that make for the hard compatibility match it takes to actually get with someone long term or marry. I do think that you are correct about for those for whom it works though - looks younger, is youthful and has desirable characteristics.
 
Crap like this is why longer term can’t really hide in a red state unless something changes.


Just for some background, this girl met these guys on snapchat and snuck out to go party with them, got drunk and they had sex with her in a car while she drifted in and out of consciousness.

"Sutton agreed that there was no evidence in this case of any force or coercion, but indicated that the girl was too intoxicated to give consent."

Also, this took place in 2017, it's not like these guys just crossed the southern border last week.

Reading that tweet, it's very clearly used to induce rage, you'd think upon first glance a newly arrived convoy of African males are roaming the streets of white Utah raping white women, but no, just a girl (race unknown) being a ho in the clownworld we live in, and a long time ago at that.
 
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