Yeah, looks like other posters chimed in with the right one. Been misinterpreting this one for years, apparently. I stand corrected.
Moving Abroad Before the Collapse
- Thread starter Valentine
- Start date
This is really important.
When I was faced with the reality of this and also the fact that I couldn't connect with my former Thai girlfriend's family when I went to stay with them, despite speaking very good Thai, I was faced with the reality it's something that cannot be overlooked.
No matter which way I look at it, 'bubbles' get created. It's chaotic. Perhaps you're both super introverted and stay home only to communicate with each other, or perhaps she becomes your full time translator, or you for her if she comes to your home country.
It was impossible for her to communicate with my family. She had to basically resort to baby talk and sign language, as did I in many cases. It gets old.
And what about the kids, are they able to communicate efficiently with all parties involved? Homeschooling would make this tricky due to the way language is learned by being immersed in it.
Even if, in this case, your Thai wife speaks perfect English, her family more than likely will not.
If you're white and want a foreign wife, to me it makes more sense to shoot for Eastern Europeans for example. But there's still a family-wide disconnect, and it extends to friends.
If she is foreign from abroad and comes here, she basically has to ghost her family. Why would a traditional woman do that? And why would I ghost mine and all my friends and business network here too?
The Philippines makes it easier because English is shared, but there's still heavy culture clashes, and race-mixing.
For those that are in the states that are fluently bilingual in Spanish, Latin America seems like a good option, especially if your family is also.
If I chose Thailand again, I'd have to join the Russian Orthodox Church and basically become Russian. Yet another language puzzle.
The language thing is a really tough hurdle for me. I understand I can learn it. I did it with Thai. But it's not just language for me - it's for others also, and then there's the culture barrier...
And like you said the mixed genes. On top of that so many of these Southeast Asian and Latin American girls are vaxxed. So impure blood on that level too.
When I put all this together sometimes I just tell myself the struggles of marrying an English-speaking American girl living in the US with a traditional immigrant family, let's say, is a better plan. Maybe she will be a convert like me, why not?
If the goal is to raise kids in another country for geoarbitrage and a more desireable culture, I can just move to that place a little later in life with her.
I don't know. I'm bipolar with all this stuff as many who read my crap on here have probably become aware.
There's a lot of question marks. It's not all black and white. There's a Royal Path for each one of us to figure out for ourselves.
I'm starting to become a lot more pro-stay-put in the states. I know that's not what this thread is about and my words might trigger some. But it's just my personal situation and thoughts on it.
The internet, even this forum, is not the real world. We talk of extremes.
Perhaps there should be a new thread about becoming a leader in our Parish and building communities in our home countries with people in Church. If I'm honest with myself, I can do a MUCH better job of this. So much of the great advice written on this forum can be applied in our home countries in our native locale.
At least TRY that first before digging up all your roots and fleeing abroad, especially if you've never done that before.
I'm searching for a middle way. A best of both worlds approach for myself.
Thanks for reading my diary.
- Faggot
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Wise words.
This is an excellent point, and one everyone moving abroad should consider. Are you going to be able to integrate, at least to some extent in the culture you're headed to? Will you be able to learn the language well enough to actually understand the culture?
Part of the reason I so strongly recommend volunteering is because you can really speedrun this aspect of checking out a place. If things aren't working out there after expending a good deal of effort, find another volunteer opportunity or bounce for the next spot on the list.
The whole point of geo-arbitrage is to find a better location, better conditions shall we say, that works for you. Everyone is different, that's why you gotta go and see for your self IMO. Start with a couple of weeks, extend to a couple of months or go home, strategize and then go back 6 mo to a year. Make a plan and then execute it. Worse case you go back to your normal, everyday experience with a but less money but some good life lessons and experiences.
There's an even easier way sometimes. I get all wrapped up in my head about relocation, let's say to Latin America, then I go the the local Latin grocery to test the vibe and I literally just laugh to myself. Gringo can't communicate.
I challenge anyone thinking of relocation to do this. Go to the immigrant havens in your locale. Test it out. See how you feel instead of getting stuck in your thoughts..
It must be emphasized, I'm NOT only talking about language. There's much more to communication than language alone.
I would be very careful assuming that certain countries have a "White God Factor" -- perhaps such a thing existed decades ago, like in the great Kipling Film with Sean Connery and Michael Caine, but I suspect what most of you are seeing is little more than female hypergamy.
One of my favorite areas to visit several years ago was Latin America. I still like it, but have largely moved on so that I may explore other areas of the planet. During my time there, I had relationships from a few girls from Mexico down to Ecuador and universally they were adamant about having ZERO interest in coming to America. In all but 1 case, they didn't even want to *visit* America on my dime.
Of course, at the same time, the "girl out for a green card" thing certainly existed, and Hispanic ladies are probably the most likely of all nations to be interested in a green card to America. So why didn't I experience that?
It's all about WHO you are attracting. The girls I were meeting were all stable, religious girls from good families (I simply have never really been interested in one night stands), and they knew of the degeneracy and problems in America. This was way before trannies or gay marriage so I can only imagine what they think of the place now.
I'll never forget watching the "Borat" film with a girl from Nicaragua, and she was horrified at his behavior, which I thought was "funny" at the time. But it made me realize, in her culture, such crass behavior wasn't funny at all, and the part where he does the full male nudity really turned her off, and we shut off the film.
As someone put it earlier in the thread, when visiting one of these supposed WGF countries, many girls wouldn't even make eye contact, while others locked eyes immediately. All you are seeing here, is certain girls who are responding to (bad) cues about "high value", in contrast to the majority who are rightfully suspicious of an outsider.
The girls I have had relationships abroad have been extremely shy if not suspicious in the beginning. I've also occasionally been approached by girls, and I assume they are either gold diggers, prostitutes, or at the very least nontraditional girls, and I don't give them a second thought.
Arriving on a thousand dollar plane ticket is simply "demonstrating high value" (DHV) in the way that spending $1,000 on an overpriced car payment is to a girl back home. Is that the kind of girl you want to attract?
There are girls who won't bat an eye no matter what kind of car you drive--that's who I'm interested in. And there are others whose eyes light up if they see bling. No God complex involved. It's basic hypergamy.
I could roll up to a megachurch in a leased Bentley and tell you guys "most of the ladies there looked away but there were a few who stared at me as I got out of the car, and even asked me for a ride. Isn't it amazing? I have Megachurch Complex."
Now, perhaps if one travels to atheistic or poor countries, one finds a higher percentage of girls who are attracted by materialism, but that's hardly a big brained conclusion, is it?
What you're seeing is nothing more than this basic scam.
There are tons of videos like this online, along with a bunch where the guy pretends to be an Arab Sheik. Is he "visiting a country with Muslim God Complex"? I don't think so.
Now, @TrainedLogosmotion brings up a good point about physical appearance and offspring. I often say I would like nothing more than a tall, slim 20 yr old girl of Scottish or Irish heritage, preferably raised in the southern USA, as we would have the most in common culturally, physically, and geographically. But that's simply not an option, for a variety of reasons.
I think each man has to weigh the costs and benefits for himself. Personally, I've come to the conclusion that my parents will have a much easier time adjusting to a Christian girl with an accent and different familial customs, than a girl with tattoos, or kids from a previous marriage, or 20 pounds over me.
Foreign it is. But I do think it's a very specific thing. Either you "get it" or you don't. I was telling a close buddy (on his third wife, still getting divorce raped) about a nice girl I have been visiting overseas and his only comment was "nice legs" and then a few minutes later referred to me as "being single"-- Apparently he couldn't fathom a relationship with a girl overseas outside of a fling and/or is not comfortable dating outside of certain physical criteria. The guy's choices get progressively worse--he is now married to a woman older and larger than him, who he's not very happy with at all, and she has been the best of his 3 wives by far.
For me it comes down to Terrain Theory. What environment is most likely to produce a high quality girl? Outside of a few small and extreme conclaves like the Amish, that is not America.
One of my favorite areas to visit several years ago was Latin America. I still like it, but have largely moved on so that I may explore other areas of the planet. During my time there, I had relationships from a few girls from Mexico down to Ecuador and universally they were adamant about having ZERO interest in coming to America. In all but 1 case, they didn't even want to *visit* America on my dime.
Of course, at the same time, the "girl out for a green card" thing certainly existed, and Hispanic ladies are probably the most likely of all nations to be interested in a green card to America. So why didn't I experience that?
It's all about WHO you are attracting. The girls I were meeting were all stable, religious girls from good families (I simply have never really been interested in one night stands), and they knew of the degeneracy and problems in America. This was way before trannies or gay marriage so I can only imagine what they think of the place now.
I'll never forget watching the "Borat" film with a girl from Nicaragua, and she was horrified at his behavior, which I thought was "funny" at the time. But it made me realize, in her culture, such crass behavior wasn't funny at all, and the part where he does the full male nudity really turned her off, and we shut off the film.
As someone put it earlier in the thread, when visiting one of these supposed WGF countries, many girls wouldn't even make eye contact, while others locked eyes immediately. All you are seeing here, is certain girls who are responding to (bad) cues about "high value", in contrast to the majority who are rightfully suspicious of an outsider.
The girls I have had relationships abroad have been extremely shy if not suspicious in the beginning. I've also occasionally been approached by girls, and I assume they are either gold diggers, prostitutes, or at the very least nontraditional girls, and I don't give them a second thought.
Arriving on a thousand dollar plane ticket is simply "demonstrating high value" (DHV) in the way that spending $1,000 on an overpriced car payment is to a girl back home. Is that the kind of girl you want to attract?
There are girls who won't bat an eye no matter what kind of car you drive--that's who I'm interested in. And there are others whose eyes light up if they see bling. No God complex involved. It's basic hypergamy.
I could roll up to a megachurch in a leased Bentley and tell you guys "most of the ladies there looked away but there were a few who stared at me as I got out of the car, and even asked me for a ride. Isn't it amazing? I have Megachurch Complex."
Now, perhaps if one travels to atheistic or poor countries, one finds a higher percentage of girls who are attracted by materialism, but that's hardly a big brained conclusion, is it?
What you're seeing is nothing more than this basic scam.
There are tons of videos like this online, along with a bunch where the guy pretends to be an Arab Sheik. Is he "visiting a country with Muslim God Complex"? I don't think so.
Now, @TrainedLogosmotion brings up a good point about physical appearance and offspring. I often say I would like nothing more than a tall, slim 20 yr old girl of Scottish or Irish heritage, preferably raised in the southern USA, as we would have the most in common culturally, physically, and geographically. But that's simply not an option, for a variety of reasons.
I think each man has to weigh the costs and benefits for himself. Personally, I've come to the conclusion that my parents will have a much easier time adjusting to a Christian girl with an accent and different familial customs, than a girl with tattoos, or kids from a previous marriage, or 20 pounds over me.
Foreign it is. But I do think it's a very specific thing. Either you "get it" or you don't. I was telling a close buddy (on his third wife, still getting divorce raped) about a nice girl I have been visiting overseas and his only comment was "nice legs" and then a few minutes later referred to me as "being single"-- Apparently he couldn't fathom a relationship with a girl overseas outside of a fling and/or is not comfortable dating outside of certain physical criteria. The guy's choices get progressively worse--he is now married to a woman older and larger than him, who he's not very happy with at all, and she has been the best of his 3 wives by far.
For me it comes down to Terrain Theory. What environment is most likely to produce a high quality girl? Outside of a few small and extreme conclaves like the Amish, that is not America.
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Yup. I experienced this with my girlfriend in the Philippines. Tried to get her to move here with me to USA but she refused because she didn't want to leave her traditional family life, culture, language, small rural town etc.
I was kind of surprised. But I was faced with the real reality of things which was she saw me more as a fun experience for her. A rebellious move against her traditions. But at the same time, she was really shunning me in ways.
I had to respect her for this. She didn't care for materialistic pursuits, the glamorous life of living in USA, or anything like that. It just made it even more crushing for me because it made me love her more, but she didn't love me. I was just a fling for her.
I felt her sense of discomfort when I was around her friends and family. And that's not because I was creepy. It was because what she was doing was taboo. It's just odd for her. We were on a tiny island community where they all knew each other. I was stranger danger, despite treating her very well and being on my best behavior with them.
It's no wonder so many men get burned by hooker, gold-digging types instead. It's obvious. They are more likely to be westernized, know English, etc.
But let's say you decide to stay instead, and you did a good job picking the right one out. Again, how does her traditional family and friends feel about her marrying a foreigner? The variables multiply with the whole family or community having it out for your money. What are you offering them by being a mute goofball?
You better make sure you get out of your expat bubble and completely immerse yourself. You have to learn the language fluently. You have to become a Filipino or a Thai. How many men actually do that? Most are in weird relationships, closed off from these women and their families, and resort to trashing the place for not being like home amongst their expat bubble, disassociated from her family and local people.
It's just not nearly as easy as some people like to imagine. I'm really sorry to blackpill. I've tried it before. It can work, but let's be honest, this really isn't some kind of golden, winning ticket scenario that's easy.
Of course, sex with them will be very easy, but in some aspects, especially with my Thai girlfriend, we were just fetishizing each other like sex dolls.
And I know some on this forum aren't Christian or just don't want to adhere to certain moral standards. That's your choice. But you're still having empty, loveless relations with women. I've had too many to count. Honestly, it gets old. In the end I crave a real, deep connection with a woman I can communicate with and spend the rest of my life with.
I can point to several exceptions and I applaud them, but they are by far not the norm in my experience.
I met so many guys in Thailand and Philippines with bar girls, or just women they were completely disconnected to.
Of course none of this matters if your goal is to just bang bang bang and on to the next with one night stands and temporary dalliance, but marriage and family formation while upholding Christian values is a different ball game.
Why would a traditional, conservative, hot, young native girl not just marry a guy of her own race in her home country? News flash: that's what they do.
So men get stuck in expat bubbles with a bunch of women that are matching with them for the wrong reasons. They are liberal, loose, abnormal women who banged a bunch of foreigners already.
Is this always the case? No. But I'm tired of the black and white thinking. And I understand that Thailand and Philippines are extreme cases, but this reality isn't going to disappear in other countries. All you can do is control for it.
If we face these brutal truths, it's easier to navigate this stuff.
Choose a country where people look like you, become fluent in the language, realize that you almost for sure need to be in her country and not the other way around - it will be hard work to do it right.
There's ways to give yourself better chances at succeeding.
If I'm moving her here to USA, I'd assume her family bonds aren't very strong, that her family is very small, or maybe that she doesn't have any family at all. It could really just be a horrible place for her, like a Ukrainian war zone or something. I don't know.
I don't think it's totally stupid to move a girl here If I'm deeply connected to my Church community, homeschooling, keeping her pregnant, etc. These nightmare cases, again, these are gold-digging whores.
And after all that is accounted for, when we truly consider another plan of staying put, what's the real, honest cost benefit analysis? I don't mean in general necessarily, but just do the math for yourself personally.
Or let's say you get a Ukrainian woman and then you move together to Thailand or Philippines for the cheap massages and stuff, how does that fix all of this? You're just outsiders together.
Is it really so so horribly bad in America? How many dream, like myself, of flying away to foreign lands, but don't even put effort to check out that country's restaurant in a current home city? Or travel around our own state to find the beauty in it? Do we really practice all that we preach?
I can humbly say that I do not. Nowhere is going to be perfect, but anywhere can be painted as a hellhole of a place if we focus only on the cons.
Passport bros is really just passport hoes the majority of the time.
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It’s the most ignored aspect of moving abroad. Language and integration.
It is why if actually looking for a wife abroad, aside from essentially buying one from a slum, the intention should first be to move somewhere and focus on getting a place, income in order, then learning the language and mixing with the culture.
Even then as a few of you have pointed out, in some places like Asia even if fluent and immersed in the culture you still will be looked at as an outsider.
I will say with my EE wife’s family, after spending a good amount of time there living as a local I earned all the respect from her family and friends. Some may have some thoughts about “the American” which will always be there but good enough that I have a truly trusted network.
My opinion is that can be tougher in Asia.
As an aside, people might try local Russian and Slavic churches in the states. You can meet mostly foreign raised women but do so in the familiarity of your region.
High quality traditional women always prefer a local high status guy than a foreigner but the reality is that in poor countries with many attractive women the number of men who can financially provide for a family is much smaller than the pool of beautiful women. So some of those women are happy to settle for a foreigner as a second choice. In Romania or Serbia for example how many attractive traditional women are there compared to local guys who earn at least $3000 (dollars) a month?
I say around $3000 because I think for most poor countries that is a reasonable base line income to comfortably support a wife and two kids in a to a middle class standard.
Well said. Another thought would be how will your children fit into their society? Sure, you are 'the American' for now, maybe the rest of your life/time there, but what about your kids? Will they also be seen as foreigners or will they just be another kid on the block playing with their friends and grow up fitting in (in general) to the local culture?
Great post and point, one I have spoken about a lot, in fact. The M:F ratio changed in a lot of those former Soviet Union countries but the hardness of life also in certain places knocks off many men due to alcoholism and shitty economies to boot, so it is somewhat preserved. The culture and the lack of economy in general also provides a positive feedback loop: the women, who might also have a general genetic advantage on the rest of the world to boot, must be in shape in order to get a return on a husband. And that means also, they must be young, both. This is the reality that slaps you in the face about how much worse it is in the west, where NONE of these pressures exist, and thus we see what we see with women and/or potential marriage.
The way things are in the west these days, this is a good problem to have/least of your worries.
I can say, personally knowing people from mixed marriages in the Balkans and other parts of Europe, that you will be treated almost exactly like a local if you look and talk like one, and your name is native. Having a foreign mother may less impactful than a foreign father in that regard. Perhaps they can change that, for example Peterson becomes Petrov. But that is less important, whereas looking too different would be a stumbling block. The real test is if you meet a stranger and have a short chat, will he suspect you are the product of a mixed marriage? If not, then you passed the test.
I don't get the big deal about race mixing that people on this forum keep droning on about. Unless you live in a highly homogenous society like Iceland or Japan the reality is that a large percentage of people in the world are genetically speaking at least already a racial mixture. Besides how do you even define a "race". Is Brazilian considered a "race"? Or is that just considered a mix of Asiatic, European and African races?
For me personally, it's more of the drastic mixing that I can see being an issue, like Caucasian with African. But I feel like the cultural disconnect is a bigger, overarching hurdle. I don't really think race mixing is a dealbreaker but the reality is that kids looking the same as the parents and family does create a sense of unity and cohesion.
There are certainly less extreme examples, and it really depends where the kids are being bred geographically. If it's a cross cultural 'diverse' place, doesn't seem to matter as much. I'm not really necessarily against it, but I just realize it can be a factor for various reasons.
I know it's a tongue in cheek example, but it's like saying "why does race mixing matter if you're in jail? Just join any gang you want. There's no need to stick to your race." We can say that, but people naturally have in-group preference for those that look, smell, sound, and feel like them.
The fact of life is that people trust, communicate, and get along easier with those of the same race. That's been my experience. I believe I can state this without being a racist person. It has nothing to do with me thinking one race is superior to the other.
We all come from Adam and Eve and we're all God's children. Evolution can be a racist theory though. "Blacks are closer to monkeys" nonsense.
I do agree social cohesion is a thing but that is more about where you born and raised as opposed to your genetics. Most black Americans feel more at home in U.S.A. then they would in African country were people look similar to them.
Not good. I'm attracted to Latinas but everytime I see mixed race kids it gives me pause. To some extent we're all mixed race, but I think there is some biological wiring that drives me to want my children to look like me (or is that narcissistic racism?
). Someone on RVF once had a great quote about not marrying a women who already has a kid because, "Everytime you look in that kid's eyes you will see the eyes of a man who had her when she was younger, hotter, and probably more fun to be with." That always stuck with me and so I avoid single mothers like the plague. In much the same way, having biological children that do not look like they are related to me could breed long-term subconscious resentment towards my non-white wife thus eroding the foundation of our marriage. Best (for me) not to risk it.See above. Apologies mate for "droning on."
Good call. The grass is always greener. The title of this thread implies moving out of America before The Collapse but many people from around the world, atleast in their minds, have already escaped The Collapse of their home country by moving to America.
The Amish in America have also been mentioned. This type of life (which I'm pursuing) can be done in many places both inside and outside of America. One place I've considered doing this, much to the chagrin of @Australia Sucks, is rural Tasmania or North West Oz (been to both and its easy to escape people and "get lost"), but I'll most likely stay put and shoot for the northern Midwest of America. At this point in my life I'm probably not ever having sex again and it's amazing how much more clarity a man can have when he takes women out of the equation and stops putting the p*ssy up on a pedestal.
Even when you take women out of the equation the problem with western countries is they are becoming increasingly tyrannical (in terms of government actions), not to mention the high cost of living. If you are financially independent there is zero reason to live in the west.Not good. I'm attracted to Latinas but everytime I see mixed race kids it gives me pause. To some extent we're all mixed race, but I think there is some biological wiring that drives me to want my children to look like me (or is that narcissistic racism?
See above. Apologies mate for "droning on."
Good call. The grass is always greener. The title of this thread implies moving out of America before The Collapse but many people from around the world, atleast in their minds, have already escaped The Collapse of their home country by moving to America.
The Amish in America have also been mentioned. This type of life (which I'm pursuing) can be done in many places both inside and outside of America. One place I've considered doing this, much to the chagrin of @Australia Sucks, is rural Tasmania or North West Oz (been to both and its easy to escape people and "get lost"), but I'll most likely stay put and shoot for the northern Midwest of America. At this point in my life I'm probably not ever having sex again and it's amazing how much more clarity a man can have when he takes women out of the equation and stops putting the p*ssy up on a pedestal.
These kinds of things are hard for the modern, propagandized egalitarian mind to recognize or admit, sadly. They are all too true, however.
The grass is greener, as a matter of fact, as Australia says. What we are doing, like people moving out of the cities, is back to what was more normal: that includes out of the propagandized west, which has lost its soul. I said the same thing about my ancestors, and you do too here, but you are using it in a way that suggests that one shouldn't leave America. I don't find that wise.
I do wish that it weren't that way, though, my friend. I would stay and regionalize (and might anyway), but the fact is that for a 40 year old man in America, even if you have nearly all the desirable characteristics, the cultural or social taboo for getting a 20 something girl is too much. I wish I were wrong. The reality is that if you aren't at least getting that, with all the other barbs you have to run through, and all the cultural and legal nonsense, you really aren't getting very much, period.
That explains it.
No matter where you go, there you are. One's geographical location, financial situation, and relationship status are not the keys to a happy, productive life. One person's tyranny is another person's freedom. It's all a state of spirit and mind. For example, and not to be a contrarian troll, but I like America and Australia and I think they are fine places to live, work, and raise families. I would bet that most Amish in America do not know much about the US government much less do they frame its existence as being "tyrannical."