Moving Abroad Before the Collapse

[Australia Sucks]

It really is astounding how delusional women are.

When you look at the website:

Female Delusion Calculator

What are the chances to find the man of your dreams? - Live search on US survey data.

igotstandardsbro.com

I just put in criteria that an average woman might see as being just "basic criteria" for a woman who considers herself "not picky."

So I selected:
-unmarried men
-at least 6 foot tall
-earning at least $100,000 per year

That is "basic criteria". I didn't add any "race" (black, white or Asian) or age restrictions to this.

The result came back as 0.53% of U.S.A. men meeting this criteria. So literally in the U.S.A. average women think they are entitled to a top 1% man.

What is surprising when you think about it is that the amount of marriages isn't lower than it already is.

 

[Douglas Quaid]

It's funny because the women with actual marriage potential usually have much more realistic expectations, and they're younger, nicer, much more attractive, not dating online, etc. It's these late 20s and up single roasties that need to just go away. No one is impressed with their politics, careers, education, experience or whatever other garbage they think makes them desirable to a man.

 

[Blade Runner]

The important thing with appearance is that she looks good enough to stimulate your sexual desire, anymore is a bonus.

Precisely. This isn't the case with most with the other characteristics you want, sadly.

7s in Poland, Serbia, Croatia, Ukraine, Romania, Czechia, and perhaps Lithuania.

Slav land is by far the best. I consider their 6s even better than most, since they are naturally more feminine and have the look I like.

It's these late 20s and up single roasties that need to just go away.

There are some that are collateral damage but most have already been on the hamster wheel too long. When I was in professional school, I can look back now, and I remember that even by age 25 most of the girls that previously looked good were sloppy. The mid 20s loss and then precipitous loss of attractiveness due to gravity and shape is real. All too real. They can exude a sexuality but the problem is that if you are a mid 20s girl who still happens to look good you were one who looked way better at 18, and depending on who raised you, your partner count in those 6-7 years can be high. Very high. With leverage. Sad stuff for most.

 

[SpyofMoses]

Finding a woman who is honest and young and beautiful and virgin and not a gold-digger and that is interested in you is already extremely hard. You want to add on top of that they need to look similar to you?

Second on this point here. I'm mixed race, but very obviously mostly white. Can't go anywhere without at least someone pointing out that I "don't quite look American, " or "have eyes like a Native American," etc. But I'm also treated like I'm good looking, so who cares? Maybe it's because half of my family can get quite diverse in their features, but I've always thought that beauty is beauty, regardless of race. As long as my kids are healthy, and raised right by their mother and me, I don't care if they have a different skin tone or hair/eye color. They just gotta be healthy and inherit our good habits.

 

[Maddox]

I'm confused about something. The rules for getting a nomad visa for some of these countries require you to have a contract for lodging beforehand. And yet, even with all of your papers in order, you still may not be granted a long-term visa. So you could pay a deposit on a long-term rental in a country like Italy and not even be able to go there, thus losing your deposit if the visa doesn't go through.

What am I missing here? Is this correct?

 

[analyst_green]

I'm confused about something. The rules for getting a nomad visa for some of these countries require you to have a contract for lodging beforehand. And yet, even with all of your papers in order, you still may not be granted a long-term visa. So you could pay a deposit on a long-term rental in a country like Italy and not even be able to go there, thus losing your deposit if the visa doesn't go through.

What am I missing here? Is this correct?

Sounds like typical Italian bureaucracy. It's unpleasant because you have to beware of housing scams, there are tons in Europe. I know a guy who got swindled out of $500 in Switzerland when he booked a place that didn't actually exist.

 

[TCOCBR18]

I really appreciate how this thread, in its discussions of the Latin American option (and it seems it mostly either Latin America or Eastern Europe for us), reminds me of the old South American Expat thread on RooshV forum, which was actually the original reason I joined the forum as I considered learning Spanish and moving.
My view has rather changed since then and I don't actively consider Latin America towards the top of a list of emigration options. However, and I think this might be unpopular here, but what experience do any of you have with Canada or the UK? I was thinking those might be good options for somebody who wants to keep a lot of things he actually likes about living in the US, but still wants to avoid the dystopia of the US in particular. And one would just go on speaking English, which makes things vastly easier. Now I know they might actually be even worse than the US in many ways, but I have no experience with those countries so that's why I'm asking.

 

[Blade Runner]

I know a guy who got swindled out of $500 in Switzerland when he booked a place that didn't actually exist.

I came across a place in Romania in a big city that was through bookings, but when it came time to "pay" they wanted a bank transfer. LOL, come on. What's funny is that my friend who actually was from Eastern Europe originally didn't even say no that's weird, he just said, "I don't know maybe." Come on man, no one books apartments or hotel rooms with a bank transfer in EE

My view has rather changed since then and I don't actively consider Latin America towards the top of a list of emigration options.

Why not?

Now I know they might actually be even worse than the US in many ways, but I have no experience with those countries so that's why I'm asking.

Hard no. The United States is the best of the 5 eyes worst, for many reasons. And it's too rich; the others are too socialist, communist, and anti freedom. You can't even hide out in those countries. There's no way around it, if you want a girl for the shorter or longer term you MUST go overseas, somewhere - and the odds will be that it has to be a place that is poor(er) or not well traveled by the tourist types.

 

[Pointy Elbows]

Such threads are fun for me to read, with occasional frustration. Hearing guys plan for adventure and a new start is refreshing. I can live vicariously through younger men considering real change. Frustrating because it just wasn't an option I really considered and now my window has closed.

Gentlemen, if you're under 30 and have such ideas, please act on them now. Especially if you don't have a family. If it goes bad and you need to come home, nobody will really care as society has lower expectations for guys under 30. You can still fail and recover - even up to around 40. If you have transferable skill/job, it is even later than 40.

Really, grab 'em and go - especially if you are single. Do some reasonable planning, but you aren't storming Normandy. No need to have the perfect plan (other than a solid escape/emergency plan to get home).

Around 40 and with family, that all changes. Moreso if you have duty to care for elderly parents. For Americans considering this, we have plenty of problems, but there are plenty of places that are worse (like Blade Runner said, any 5 eyes country is nogo IMHO).

BTW, the best breakthroughs that life has delivered to me have been AFTER some setback/hardship. I usually overestimated the downside of the hardship, and God always seemed to help me more after the humbling. So don't fear the occasional failure. Fear lost opportunity.

Best wishes to those that can pursue better pastures. You won't know if you don't go.

 

[BehindTheLines]

I'm confused about something. The rules for getting a nomad visa for some of these countries require you to have a contract for lodging beforehand. And yet, even with all of your papers in order, you still may not be granted a long-term visa. So you could pay a deposit on a long-term rental in a country like Italy and not even be able to go there, thus losing your deposit if the visa doesn't go through.

What am I missing here? Is this correct?

Questions like these are the reason why I previously asked what your actual budget is for this venture.

Yes, dealing with any bureaucracy, particularly those from Southern, Central, and Eastern European countries can be a nightmare and the wrong letter in the wrong place on the wrong page of your 25 documents (which are all going in some bottomless drawer out back, never to be looked at again) and they'll tell you to re-submit your application (at best, it might just be outright rejected). You may have time left on your tourist visa to straighten everything out (or they may give you an extension since you technically submitted an application), but they also might not.

It's also possible that the wrong bureaucrat on the wrong day may not be familiar with certain aspects of the process and accidentally reject the application. Or they preferred to get their 9th espresso for the day instead of processing it on deadline day.

If putting down a deposit on a place only to lose it when the visa/residency isn't processed as planned is going to break the bank, don't pursue this.

 

[Blade Runner]

BTW, the best breakthroughs that life has delivered to me have been AFTER some setback/hardship. I usually overestimated the downside of the hardship, and God always seemed to help me more after the humbling. So don't fear the occasional failure. Fear lost opportunity.

Great advice.

Regarding others, I don't think it's a foregone conclusion for anyone until at least 55. Especially in places like SEA where euros will always be looked up to in some capacity, for purely biological and evolutionary reasons. That doesn't mean you'll be accepted or it will be easy, but the ROI is good compared to the west which is a joke. Clarey just put out his chapter on marriageable women on youtube a few days back, and the % with no red flags by 3 different analyses is like 1.5% - one of them is even funny because he said the serial daters reported 1 in 100 women, which amused me and he says confirms his number.

It looks to me more and more like the best places to go are the hardest to get to OR are the enemies of 5 eyes. I think you know what they are. LatAm has good spots but it seems mostly just fun to me, given their character and make up. There are diamonds there, for sure, but you'll have to have connections or a LONG time building (trust) there.

 

[Rainy]

Gentlemen, if you're under 30 and have such ideas, please act on them now. Especially if you don't have a family. If it goes bad and you need to come home, nobody will really care as society has lower expectations for guys under 30. You can still fail and recover - even up to around 40. If you have transferable skill/job, it is even later than 40.

Completely agree with where the US is going, the world is going, the slave economy is going, healthcare is going, education is going, illegal immigration/crime is going, the prospect of the dollar as the reserve currency crashing, etc, etc, etc.

There are good places to go in the US. But if you are interested in moving abroad and it's the type of thing you're seriously considering, do it. Especially if you have no wife/kids. Hell, I'd do it with a wife and no kids just as easily. Kids complicate everything. If you hate it, come back.

People should reflect on this word; regret.

Ten years from now do you want to look back and regret not making the jump. So much is simply talking yourself out of it and fear of the unknown. All the what ifs. Frankly, quit being a pussy is you have a dead end job, no real financial means to be comfortable and don't like where you live. Or you want the experience. Or are curious. Or want a wife. Or a change of scenery. There is an entire world out there. And consider every immigrant you come across already did the same. From whatever corner of the world they were raised, they said goodbye to family/friends and trekked over here to start anew.

No reason not to go later too if older.

The worst thing one can do is waste years posting online about wishing they were abroad. That time is never coming back.

And really, I don't know what the big deal is. I've moved coast to coast a few times. New cities. Didn't know anyone. GPS to get around. It takes time and you adapt. Spent a lot of time in EE as well. Whether moving to a new state or country much of the steps are largely the same. There is the language issue but anyone's whose travelled has an idea of that challenge. You can get by while you learn the local language if need be. And it's generally going to be more exciting to venture out in a new country compared to another US state.

What happened to adventure?

With all the info online people are actually using it to talk themselves out of what they want to do.

I am tired of seeing all the posts asking where should I move? Get a ticket, get on a f'ing plane, land, tell us how it is. RVF at one time had dozens and dozens of members all around the world doing exactly that. Typing up data sheets. It simply is not complicated.

 

[Rainy]

I'm confused about something. The rules for getting a nomad visa for some of these countries require you to have a contract for lodging beforehand. And yet, even with all of your papers in order, you still may not be granted a long-term visa. So you could pay a deposit on a long-term rental in a country like Italy and not even be able to go there, thus losing your deposit if the visa doesn't go through.

What am I missing here? Is this correct?

For proof of accommodation, Airbnb works. Get one for 1-2 months from someone with trusted reviews and look for something else once on the ground. Even a hotel can work for proof of accommodation. Do not under any circumstance sign a rental agreement and put down a deposit from overseas. Not unless you have trusted associates on the ground.

The major item is proof of income or a bank statement with a good balance. As long as you have that and you have booked a place, with the clear financial ability to pay for it, not gonna have a problem coming from the US. You're in the top percentile of applicants.

And again, plenty of attorneys who will assist.

 

[SpyofMoses]

With all the info online people are actually using it to talk themselves out of what they want to do.

To this point, I'd like to add that I used to do the same exact thing. There was a time I wanted to go to India(I was way into yoga back then). People told me "don't do it, it's dangerous and dirty there." So I never went. I wanted to go to Colombia(the family's old country). Again, told about the dangers and my parents were worried about me being there alone. So I didn't go. Recently I decided I wanted to go to Taiwan(yeah, I've had a lot of phases of different interests). Of course, everyone said, "it could get invaded any day, they might think your e a spy, etc, etc."

So I said screw it and went. All by myself.
Best time of my life.

I, too, have lived in disparate regions of the US at this point. Sometimes I had something lined up there, but during the most daring move I had nothing lined up at all. Even borrowed money to go there, in a clunker with near 300,000 miles on it(I wouldn't recommend to this anyone, and yes, there were concerned people who told me not to). But you know what? Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

That last mentioned move didn't pan out the way I planned, but by being flexible and staying focused on my mission I still accomplished a lot. Now I'm thinking about going abroad, maybe to stay, maybe just to experience it. We'll see.

As for that plan, it takes some moving parts that must be put in place first. Doing that is taking longer than I thought it might. In fact, it might not even work out. But nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Will report back when I have a cool story to share.

Final thought, I know I definitely won't "fit in" where I'm trying to go. I know it's also subject to plenty of globohomo over there, too. I also know that if I take the risk I could become fluent in the local language, and that would translate(ha) into a hard skill I could use if I end up right back in the States(pun intended). It would risk the comfort I've built up here so far, but there is the reality that I never fit in all that well into America, either. No matter where I've gone I've been something of an outsider. Maybe I'm just a contrarian who doesn't wanna admit it. But if you feel like an economic migrant across a vast, collapsing empire and have only a decent job going for yourself, nothing else and are still young, why not try an adventure? It's not like I'm ever gonna get a wife, kids, house, and retirement if I stay anyway, so let's roll the dice and see what happens.

 

[Rainy]

Final thought, I know I definitely won't "fit in" where I'm trying to go. I know it's also subject to plenty of globohomo over there, too. I also know that if I take the risk I could become fluent in the local language, and that would translate(ha) into a hard skill I could use if I end up right back in the States(pun intended). It would risk the comfort I've built up here so far, but there is the reality that I never fit in all that well into America, either. No matter where I've gone I've been something of an outsider. Maybe I'm just a contrarian who doesn't wanna admit it. But if you feel like an economic migrant across a vast, collapsing empire and have only a decent job going for yourself, nothing else and are still young, why not try an adventure? It's not like I'm ever gonna get a wife, kids, house, and retirement if I stay anyway, so let's roll the dice and see what happens.

On your death bed, all you have are memories.

You can live life, seek experiences, explore, fill a book of people met, cultures visited, stories to tell.

Or you can sit miserably (not you) in your current abode, unhappy with your situation/job/location, and ultimately have a life of regret.

As an aside, watch any young kid experience something new, an adventure, exploring. They love it. IMO that is a natural human state. It just gets clouded by modern human life.

Maybe you're a bit like me where you enjoy being an outsider. I feel comfortable being in places where I don't hear another American for weeks at a time. Maybe comfort is the wrong word. There is a part of my brain which is activated, an alertness tied to adventure/freedom which is rarely there when in the states. It's like hiking a new trail or skiing a new mountain, x 100.

 

[larom]

Maybe you're a bit like me where you enjoy being an outsider. I feel comfortable being in places where I don't hear another American for weeks at a time. Maybe comfort is the wrong word. There is a part of my brain which is activated, an alertness tied to adventure/freedom which is rarely there when in the states. It's like hiking a new trail or skiing a new mountain, x 100.

You really need to have the spirit of a settler/explorer to last in the long run in the true, undeveloped world. I'd say 95% of the general population, including in this thread, needs to stay put where they are. Nothing wrong with that either.

"The mere animal pleasure of travelling in a wild unexplored country is very great. When on lands of a couple of thousand feet elevation, brisk exercise imparts elasticity to the muscles, fresh and healthy blood circulates through the brain, the mind works well, the eye is clear, the step is firm, and a day’s exertion always makes the evening’s repose thoroughly enjoyable."

Written by David Livingstone in 1866 on arrival to the African plains while in search of the source of the Congo river in the Last Diaries of David Livingstone. For those unaware, he's the most celebrated Christian missionary in history. If you want real adventure, go to the places he went to, it's more or less the same as it was in 1866, or better yet, try living there!

 

[Pointy Elbows]

4+ years ago I met a 40ish, not-quite trust fund type of guy whose job was house sitting vacation homes near the ski slopes. He was always broke but seemed to get by without mooching off his family too much.

He was about to leave on a LatAm e-bicycling adventure with a buddy. Their plan was to ride the beach roads, stopping at each town until they went broke. Then he would wash dishes or serve tables for a few weeks and do it again. He did speak Spanish and was good enough looking to charm tourist women well.

That was it. That was his plan. He did it (and had done it once before). He came back sometime during covid. Not my style, but I tip my hat to him.

A poor plan executed decisively trumps a great plan unexecuted any day.

 

[Blade Runner]

Where is everyone thinking about going, or is there a general holding pattern here? I haven't noticed too much movement, stories, or data sheets (-:

 

[Tippy]

On your death bed, all you have are memories.

You can live life, seek experiences, explore, fill a book of people met, cultures visited, stories to tell.

Or you can sit miserably (not you) in your current abode, unhappy with your situation/job/location, and ultimately have a life of regret.

As an aside, watch any young kid experience something new, an adventure, exploring. They love it. IMO that is a natural human state. It just gets clouded by modern human life.

Maybe you're a bit like me where you enjoy being an outsider. I feel comfortable being in places where I don't hear another American for weeks at a time. Maybe comfort is the wrong word. There is a part of my brain which is activated, an alertness tied to adventure/freedom which is rarely there when in the states. It's like hiking a new trail or skiing a new mountain, x 100.

That's such black and white thinking. That you're either living a fun adventurous life or miserably not.

I know this topic well because I've experienced both staying in home country (to finish studies) with strong urges to leave and also leaving the country when I had many practical reasons and resistance (in the form of fear) about leaving.

It's honestly very difficult to know which option is 'better' than the other. But I don't cleanly think that one is living a miserable life of non-adventure by staying and a modern day Marco Polo by leaving. It's just not like that.

 

[Rainy]

That's such black and white thinking. That you're either living a fun adventurous life or miserably not.

I know this topic well because I've experienced both staying in home country (to finish studies) with strong urges to leave and also leaving the country when I had many practical reasons and resistance (in the form of fear) about leaving.

It's honestly very difficult to know which option is 'better' than the other. But I don't cleanly think that one is living a miserable life of non-adventure by staying and a modern day Marco Polo by leaving. It's just not like that.

Well you have missed all nuance to my posts on the topic.

I am not suggesting in any way that not moving or traveling abroad equates to being miserable.

I have consistently responded to those who are unhappy with their current situation and have a desire to move abroad or adventure overseas, yet don't do it.