Moving Abroad Before the Collapse

[Sandalwood Peak]

Nobody said the virgin is looking for a foreigner. I agree in all likelihood with a virgin the idea of marrying a foreigner never came to her mind but the point is if she sees you as a high value man it will make no difference to her if you are a local or a foreigner she will marry you either way. Yes I agree the girls specifically looking to marry foreigners are usually gold diggers.

Yes, but I’m trying to understand the logistics.

The only way demanding a virgin makes sense is if a sizeable percentage of single, available women in a country are virgins. A unique problem even with that, given that it would be born out of culture, is the older the woman is the more chances she has had non-vaginal sexual+emotional contact with men in secret.

If you live in the west, when was the last time you saw a random woman have sex? Women are definitely having sex, but if you base it on visual evidence you would think it’s a rare thing.

So assuming you’re in a place that is ambiguous in sexual activity, you’re going to have to kind of announce your virgin seeking intentions.

She’s probably going to have to be young so there will be an age gap. So in ideal circumstances she will be introduced to you unless you experience love at first sight with a virgin barista or something. A funny anecdote is I was cold approached by a young Muslim barista in Malaysia, unfortunately I only know what her eyes look like. So anything is possible I guess.

So if you’re being introduced, why are people introducing a foreigner friend to young virgins? A bit of a strange dynamic, double so for a white country.

If you’re not being introduced, how are you seeking them out? If there is a language barrier, is she suppose to be smittened by your western looks/money? If she’s hard to get, do you keep showing up to harass her? In this situation my original assumption is that ideally you want a virgin who has a thing for foreigners or their looks, so you’re able to overcome the cultural barrier quickly.

I’m not saying it’s impossible, anybody wife hunting is going to be looking for young women anyway, so there is always a chance, but it’s not something I personally would focus on. I also imagine vast majority of locals across the world will get resentful real QUICK if you start rejecting women that are giving you choosing signals or being introduced to you. You will get a reputation. Speaking from experience.

 

[Australia Sucks]

Yes, but I’m trying to understand the logistics.

The only way demanding a virgin makes sense is if a sizeable percentage of single, available women in a country are virgins. A unique problem even with that, given that it would be born out of culture, is the older the woman is the more chances she has had non-vaginal sexual+emotional contact with men in secret.

If you live in the west, when was the last time you saw a random woman have sex? Women are definitely having sex, but if you base it on visual evidence you would think it’s a rare thing.

So assuming you’re in a place that is ambiguous in sexual activity, you’re going to have to kind of announce your virgin seeking intentions.

She’s probably going to have to be young so there will be an age gap. So in ideal circumstances she will be introduced to you unless you experience love at first sight with a virgin barista or something. A funny anecdote is I was cold approached by a young Muslim barista in Malaysia, unfortunately I only know what her eyes look like. So anything is possible I guess.

So if you’re being introduced, why are people introducing a foreigner friend to young virgins? A bit of a strange dynamic, double so for a white country.

If you’re not being introduced, how are you seeking them out? If there is a language barrier, is she suppose to be smittened by your western looks/money? If she’s hard to get, do you keep showing up to harass her? In this situation my original assumption is that ideally you want a virgin who has a thing for foreigners or their looks, so you’re able to overcome the cultural barrier quickly.

I’m not saying it’s impossible, anybody wife hunting is going to be looking for young women anyway, so there is always a chance, but it’s not something I personally would focus on. I also imagine vast majority of locals across the world will get resentful real QUICK if you start rejecting women that are giving you choosing signals or being introduced to you. You will get a reputation. Speaking from experience.

The way it works is by going to a country where age gap acceptance is higher and young women have a decent chance of still being virgin.

If age gap acceptance is okay and you are 35 and lets say for example because its a somehow conservative country and for example 20% of 18 year old girls are virgin.

Yes the money is important. You need money otherwise it won't work. Even if the girl is religious and non-materailistic she would rightfully want you to be able to provide a comfortable standard of living for her because she is not a career woman. The money is the main advantage you would have over local guys.

 

[Douglas Quaid]

The best way to meet younger women is through church, or Christian related activities/places. I like to ski, mountain bike, kayak and hike too, and hobbies like that are another way (women in general love this stuff). I have met women up to their mid 20s that have not been sleeping around. They are absolutely not the norm, but it does happen.

 

[BehindTheLines]

There's no way Montenegro has an average IQ of 85. That's the average IQ of US Blacks and not much above India, and I'm pretty sure Montenegro doesn't look anything like da hood or the slums of Mumbai. In your hypothetical scenario you seem to exaggerate many of the problems there.

You're right about the IQ. I pegged it as being ~85 when in reality it is closer to 86. A 10-second Google search will reveal multiple sources asserting as such.

I have no experience with Mumbai and little experience with "da hood" in America. I would suggest taking a Google Maps tour of the road spanning from maybe Canj to just before Ulcinj to get an idea of how the places look (maybe you have first-hand experience, though). These are more of the "local" beach areas and give a good representation of what local standards are.

What do I "seem" to be exaggerating and what makes you assume that these descriptions are exaggerations? I did find that I was incorrect about the smoking rates; Montenegro actually clocks in at 17th, not 24th.

Charted: Global Tobacco Use by Country and Sex

This visual shows tobacco use by country and sex, highlighting which countries still have a high prevalence of smoking.

www.visualcapitalist.com

As far as smoking rates for women, it's actually 4th in the world and one of the few countries where there are more female than male smokers. I know smoking is very prevalent and entrenched throughout the entire region; is this then one of the "traditional" values men are searching for?

 

[BehindTheLines]

Also again I am not sure the scenario you are painting about Montenegro being expensive is realistic. Sure if you want a luxury villa next to the guys who own super yachts you will have to cough up big. However even if a touristic city like Kotor Bay you can get long term apartment rentals of basic 2 bedroom apartments between 500 EUR and 900 EUR per month (depending on size, location and newness of apartment, etc). Here is a link with examples https://2home.me/en/kotor/rent/apartment/1/
Also that scenario you painted still sounds like an upgrade from the situation most western guys are in currently.

I'm not trying to pile on Montenegro, but I can't get that link to work. It may be something on my end, but it doesn't open for me.

If you look at a site that locals would be more apt to use (although it would be more word of mouth) you certainly have a number of rentals in that price range available in the municipality: https://www.realitica.com/index.php...since-day=p-anytime&qob=p-default&qry=&lng=en

All of these places are in the Kotor municipality. It would be like if I was searching for real estate in Queensland as opposed to a specific city. Most of the places in the price range you list are in places that would be the Toowoombas of Kotor (with sea views in many cases, though), but without the infrastructure or, in many cases, more than a beach-style market (think local cola and potato chips) and a couple of old, smoky cafes.

The upside? Not being in Kotor Old Town, you don't have to deal AS much with the thousands and thousands of cruise tourists who flood the city for 5 months of the year; driving anywhere outside of the municipality will still take about 5 times as long due to traffic, though. And once October rolls around, the never-ending rain combined those mountains...say goodbye to the sun until May.

If the situation I painted is really so much worse than what most(?!) Western men are in, I would question what they have done to get themselves in such perilous situations. A lot of bad things are happening in much of the West, but I can't really imagine that most Western men would prefer the situation I laid out.

 

[Australia Sucks]

Yes, but I’m trying to understand the logistics.

The only way demanding a virgin makes sense is if a sizeable percentage of single, available women in a country are virgins. A unique problem even with that, given that it would be born out of culture, is the older the woman is the more chances she has had non-vaginal sexual+emotional contact with men in secret.

If you live in the west, when was the last time you saw a random woman have sex? Women are definitely having sex, but if you base it on visual evidence you would think it’s a rare thing.

So assuming you’re in a place that is ambiguous in sexual activity, you’re going to have to kind of announce your virgin seeking intentions.

She’s probably going to have to be young so there will be an age gap. So in ideal circumstances she will be introduced to you unless you experience love at first sight with a virgin barista or something. A funny anecdote is I was cold approached by a young Muslim barista in Malaysia, unfortunately I only know what her eyes look like. So anything is possible I guess.

So if you’re being introduced, why are people introducing a foreigner friend to young virgins? A bit of a strange dynamic, double so for a white country.

If you’re not being introduced, how are you seeking them out? If there is a language barrier, is she suppose to be smittened by your western looks/money? If she’s hard to get, do you keep showing up to harass her? In this situation my original assumption is that ideally you want a virgin who has a thing for foreigners or their looks, so you’re able to overcome the cultural barrier quickly.

I’m not saying it’s impossible, anybody wife hunting is going to be looking for young women anyway, so there is always a chance, but it’s not something I personally would focus on. I also imagine vast majority of locals across the world will get resentful real QUICK if you start rejecting women that are giving you choosing signals or being introduced to you. You will get a reputation. Speaking from experience.

As for why are people introducing virgin girls to you its because you have money. Who would most Slavic father's (the Slavs are practical people) rather their daughter marry? Dragan who works in a local cement factory and earns the equivalent of 350 EUR per month or the foreigner who can provide a good standard of living to his daughter? Of course if there is a Nikola in the town who owns an import export business making 100,000 EUR per year they would prefer him over a foreigner but guys like that are in short supply.

It comes down to supply and demand. If a country e.g. a Balkans country or Belarus, etc has more young virgin females than high earning unmarried men then the supply demand favours the male. I would think it would be like this but perhaps I am wrong, I guess when I eventually visit I will find out.

 

[analyst_green]

You're right about the IQ. I pegged it as being ~85 when in reality it is closer to 86. A 10-second Google search will reveal multiple sources asserting as such.

Is Lynn & Vanhanen your source? It says they didn't actually measure the IQ of Montenegro. They just extrapolated from some student assessment studies which is very questionable.

Keep in mind also that Balkan countries have large numbers of Turks and gypsies which bring down the IQ. I recall reading somewhere gypsies have an IQ around 70. However, when there's something to steal their brain cells light up and they become cunning geniuses.

 

[Australia Sucks]

In general I feel like there is a lot of funny business with reported IQ statistics and even with the concept of IQ tests themselves.

Besides even if we could accurately measure intelligence I think its far less meaningful than people believe it to be.

 

[BehindTheLines]

So what are we going with? The IQ data isn't valid or it's simply "funny business"?

The Roma population of Montenegro is significantly less than it is in Hungary or Slovakia yet the IQs of these countries is likely ~a standard deviation higher than Montenegro's is:

I would tend to be skeptical of the student assessment estimates, but when I combine those estimates with personal experiences, they are RIGHT in line.

But I'll play along for a second: are you essentially stating that the estimated IQ score is acceptable to live with because it just means you'll be living around and among Turks and Roma who become, as you say, "cunning geniuses" when the opportunity for petty crime presents itself?

Is this what "paradise" sounds like?

How has you Google Maps tour going, by the way?

To the "funny business" assertion, think about what you know about the countries on the top and bottom of this list. What is a more "meaningful" explanation for this ranking?

Countries by IQ - Average IQ by Country 2024

worldpopulationreview.com

I'm genuinely interested in what could be more meaningful than IQ. If there is a "correct" answer (and I don't think there is), a lot of societal problems could start being addressed.

 

[Australia Sucks]

So what are we going with? The IQ data isn't valid or it's simply "funny business"?

The Roma population of Montenegro is significantly less than it is in Hungary or Slovakia yet the IQs of these countries is likely ~a standard deviation higher than Montenegro's is:

I would tend to be skeptical of the student assessment estimates, but when I combine those estimates with personal experiences, they are RIGHT in line.

But I'll play along for a second: are you essentially stating that the estimated IQ score is acceptable to live with because it just means you'll be living around and among Turks and Roma who become, as you say, "cunning geniuses" when the opportunity for petty crime presents itself?

Is this what "paradise" sounds like?

How has you Google Maps tour going, by the way?

To the "funny business" assertion, think about what you know about the countries on the top and bottom of this list. What is a more "meaningful" explanation for this ranking?

Countries by IQ - Average IQ by Country 2024

worldpopulationreview.com

I'm genuinely interested in what could be more meaningful than IQ. If there is a "correct" answer (and I don't think there is), a lot of societal problems could start being addressed.

As for your last sentence average (or even high) IQ does not mean a successful country. Just look at North Korea and Belarus and Argentina. Complete basket cases. People's morals (and also the system of government) are more important than their IQ. If you want a successful country you need morals and trust (high trust society) and decent government.

China vs Japan is a perfect example of this. Both high IQ Asian countries but completely different due to the differences in morality and culture. In general I would say Japanese people are much more moral (on average) pleasant to be around than Chinese people. Japan is a lot wealthier on a per capita basis than China and China will likely get stuck in the middle income trap and never become a first world country.

 

[BehindTheLines]

As for your last sentence average (or even high) IQ does not mean a successful country. Just look at North Korea and Belarus and Argentina. Complete basket cases. People's morals (and also the system of government) are more important than their IQ. If you want a successful country you need morals and trust (high trust society) and decent government.

China vs Japan is a perfect example of this. Both high IQ Asian countries but completely different due to the differences in morality and culture. In general I would say Japanese people are much more moral (on average) pleasant to be around than Chinese people. Japan is a lot wealthier on a per capita basis than China and China will likely get stuck in the middle income trap and never become a first world country.

Okay. You named the three obvious outliers on that list. We call this "the exception that proves the rule".

Also, to simplify things, I would say countries should avoid allowing megalomaniac and/or communist/socialist regimes (usually one in the same) to take power (the three countries you named, plus China in your second paragraph, would be much better off in this case).

Anyways, I've said what needs to be said about your fantasy situation and Montenegro. If you or others want to go regardless, best of luck to you in finding what you're after.

 

[analyst_green]

So what are we going with? The IQ data isn't valid or it's simply "funny business"?

The Roma population of Montenegro is significantly less than it is in Hungary or Slovakia yet the IQs of these countries is likely ~a standard deviation higher than Montenegro's is:

I would tend to be skeptical of the student assessment estimates, but when I combine those estimates with personal experiences, they are RIGHT in line.

But I'll play along for a second: are you essentially stating that the estimated IQ score is acceptable to live with because it just means you'll be living around and among Turks and Roma who become, as you say, "cunning geniuses" when the opportunity for petty crime presents itself?

Is this what "paradise" sounds like?

How has you Google Maps tour going, by the way?

To the "funny business" assertion, think about what you know about the countries on the top and bottom of this list. What is a more "meaningful" explanation for this ranking?

Countries by IQ - Average IQ by Country 2024

worldpopulationreview.com

I'm genuinely interested in what could be more meaningful than IQ. If there is a "correct" answer (and I don't think there is), a lot of societal problems could start being addressed.

I never asserted that Montenegro is some sort of paradise, nor that IQ is meaningless, nor even that Montenegrins have the same IQ as other Europeans. Montenegro has been a fairly isolated, agrarian society that has seen years of brain drain so naturally I'm not expecting the same IQ as people from Paris or Berlin. But that 86 claim is extremely dubious, especially because their IQ was never directly measured. Many small countries aren't going to have reliable data collected. And while I've never been there either, it looks more successful and prosperous than what an 86 IQ society would be capable of.

As for the demographic question, you can easily avoid living in the gypsy neighborhoods since they tend to self-segregate. Just like how you wouldn't live in the hood in the US. Also Montenegro has a very large Islamic minority due to the Bosniaks and Albanians. As we know, Islam doesn't really help much on the intelligence front. But from what I've seen, there are plenty of decent places to live down there though you will always have to deal with drawbacks.

 

[Christos_NIKA]

I can't imagine even considering a country that is literally smaller than the state of Connecticut.

 

[Northumber]

I'm genuinely interested in what could be more meaningful than IQ. If there is a "correct" answer (and I don't think there is), a lot of societal problems could start being addressed.

One only has to look as far as covid to see high IQ people acting like complete idiots. Entire populations even more. The populations with high IQs are the ones where we will be seeing all the dystopian digital IDs/money/etc. first.

There is something else, but it's probably not measurable by nature. "Intuition about reality" could be a description. I do actually want to know where these people are congregated in the world. We seem to be sprinkled all over the place.

 

[Blade Runner]

I understand the need to find a wife, but choose wisely the region of the world for that quest because a ruined two-week vacation is one thing, but spending years somewhere only to find out later that it was all for nothing is a quite painful lesson.

Last year, I finally left central EE and moved to a rural part of LatAm because, at some point, I started to appreciate peace, freedom, and living in nature more than the material comfort of the wicked idiocracy.

Yes, being backward will be far more advantageous than dealing with the midwit abusing elites of unelected politician-land.

I also imagine vast majority of locals across the world will get resentful real QUICK if you start rejecting women that are giving you choosing signals or being introduced to you. You will get a reputation. Speaking from experience.

Yup.

Yes the money is important. You need money otherwise it won't work. Even if the girl is religious and non-materailistic she would rightfully want you to be able to provide a comfortable standard of living for her because she is not a career woman. The money is the main advantage you would have over local guys.

This is just obvious and something people need to stop acting like it's silly, unfair, unromantic or a male characteristic. Being successful means status and status is among the most important things for women; it's a guarantee of attraction if you aren't ugly. It's a reality of life. Thinking that women don't base decisions on money is like saying men are interested in what most women have to say.

It comes down to supply and demand. If a country e.g. a Balkans country or Belarus, etc has more young virgin females than high earning unmarried men then the supply demand favours the male

This is why those are the places you must go to. Also, it's tough for most to stick it out for long periods of time, so my opinion is that you should go somewhere where the ROI is highest. There's only a handful of countries where I think you can meet legitimate 7s daily, and very few are european countries. If you're 6 foot and make 200, like all the girls in these videos think all men have as characteristics, you shouldn't have to expend that much energy to get a woman. That's why the west is so awful these days. You barely meet a reasonably attractive compatible woman in your entire adult life that is actually a possible option. But women will meet 100s, and arguably thousands if they are young, attractive, or both.

I do actually want to know where these people are congregated in the world. We seem to be sprinkled all over the place.

I think it's a personality characteristic crossed with a type of faith and security about the world. That is, some people are intelligent but a lot of these are raised by soy parents without the fear or faith in God, and the rest of those that "don't get it" and are insecure due to their parents or families inability to make for wholesome environments. I think the intuition for God and truth seeking is what distinguishes some from the rest. The mystery is why certain people are given this gift, and why it's so rare.

 

[Australia Sucks]

There's only a handful of countries where I think you can meet legitimate 7s daily, and very few are european countries. I

Care to expand on that? I thought Europe would have the most girls in the 7+ range. Can you list the handful of countries you believe to have a large pool of 7s?

 

[analyst_green]

Care to expand on that? I thought Europe would have the most girls in the 7+ range. Can you list the handful of countries you believe to have a large pool of 7s?

Maybe my standards aren't that high as Blade Runner but all I need is a natural looking cute face and thin to athletic build. The important thing with appearance is that she looks good enough to stimulate your sexual desire, anymore is a bonus.

With that said, I've personally seen plenty of 7s in Poland, Serbia, Croatia, Ukraine, Romania, Czechia, and perhaps Lithuania. Could add France, Quebec and Sweden too in the West but their personalities are often insufferable.

 

[Australia Sucks]

I have not been to Europe yet but based on European girls (I am referring to the under 25 female population of course) I met in Australia or while traveling in other countries almost all of the European girls seem attractive to me (with the exception of Greece and the English speaking countries such as Ireland, England, Scotland and Wales). In terms of physical beauty almost anywhere in Europe is pretty good with the exceptions listed above (maybe I just have low standards) but attitude is a different matter entirely, that is where one needs to get much more discerning about the country.

 

[RedLagoon]

Care to expand on that? I thought Europe would have the most girls in the 7+ range. Can you list the handful of countries you believe to have a large pool of 7s?

I never understood the attraction to non-whites when you're white yourself.

If you want children they also won't look like you.

Edit: there are plenty of pretty girls in Europe especially in the rural areas.

 

[Australia Sucks]

Who said I am white? Yeah I was born in Australia but I am not "white".

Some guys care a lot about their kids looking like them but personally I am not fussed. That seems like a pointy elbows style of criticism.

At some point you need to be realistic. Otherwise it becomes like those average delusional women who want an unmarried 6,6,6,6 guy (6 foot tall, 6 pack abs, 6 figure salary and 6 inch-you-know-what), which is literally a 0.1% man.

Finding a woman who is honest and young and beautiful and virgin and not a gold-digger and that is interested in you is already extremely hard. You want to add on top of that they need to look similar to you?