Marriage: Virgins vs Non-virgins

[Wutang]

A bit random but just something to bring something topic related and might be entertaining to some of the people here.

There's this channel run by a dating coach who runs these online speed dates on his channels where he brings a few girls on and then random male viewers can hop on and speak to one of the girls for 5 minutes as if they were on a real life speed date. At the end the coach asks the girl how the guy did and gives some observations and pointers of what he saw.

Sneako actually randomly hopped on and did a speed date with this college girl. It turns out during the date that she's a virgin. The girl would be one of the unicorns since she's conventionally attractive and young and if that wasn't unlikely enough she also goes to college in Miami which prompted Sneako to comment she must be the last virgin in Miami. Another interesting thing is that she isn't particularly religious and instead is one of those "spiritual but not religious" types it seems. She also does mention that she once was saving it for marriage but at this point she's would be intimate with someone as long as she's committed to the guy so she doesn't have a goal of staying a virgin until marriage though she did claim to be a virgin at the time of the stream.

She mentions being a virgin at 2:26:45 while on the speed date. After the "date" she talks to a panel about being a virgin at 2:36:00

 

[Rational1]

A bit random but just something to bring something topic related and might be entertaining to some of the people here.

There's this channel run by a dating coach who runs these online speed dates on his channels where he brings a few girls on and then random male viewers can hop on and speak to one of the girls for 5 minutes as if they were on a real life speed date. At the end the coach asks the girl how the guy did and gives some observations and pointers of what he saw.

Sneako actually randomly hopped on and did a speed date with this college girl. It turns out during the date that she's a virgin. The girl would be one of the unicorns since she's conventionally attractive and young and if that wasn't unlikely enough she also goes to college in Miami which prompted Sneako to comment she must be the last virgin in Miami. Another interesting thing is that she isn't particularly religious and instead is one of those "spiritual but not religious" types it seems. She also does mention that she once was saving it for marriage but at this point she's would be intimate with someone as long as she's committed to the guy so she doesn't have a goal of staying a virgin until marriage though she did claim to be a virgin at the time of the stream.

She mentions being a virgin at 2:26:45 while on the speed date. After the "date" she talks to a panel about being a virgin at 2:36:00

Few things. I only watched a few minutes of it, but these dating and pick up events seem quite stupid to me. The conversation and scenario is suspect. First, they are speaking about going to clubs and underground clubs and speakeasies. Seems pointless to finding long term compatibility, because are you really going to find your wife in a club? Maybe, probably not.

She seems like the ‘spiritual but not religious’ type because her name (Rosencranz or whatever it was) is Jewish. She knows this is a public interview and wants to broadcast her supposed virginity to the world. Believe it or not some Jews are quite conservative.

I don’t believe she is a virgin or she might be like those types who claim to be because they haven’t had vaginal sex (but have done everything else) Too many red flags, living in Miami, going to clubs, and broadcasting it to the world.

That brings up another obvious point. People and women lie all the time. Most people are actors portraying themselves to be what they think others want them to be and to fit cultural norms. Many women will claim virginity and simply leave out all the times ‘it didn’t count’

 

[SeekingTruth]

I strongly disagree with the last part. I was no Roosh, but I was also far from a virgin when I met my wife, who was. It's never been a problem between us.

Guys who are looking to get married, don't buy the blue pill lie that you somehow don't deserve a virgin if you happen to meet one and you want to marry her. On the theological side, just as a woman can repent for fornication, so can you. You shouldn't focus on finding a virgin, but if you do, go for it and don't feel you're somehow unworthy of her.

On the red pill side, most women don't care that you've been with other women. It's actually far more common for women to suspect there's something wrong with you and be turned off if you're a virgin. Even nice Christian girls, in my experience. It's a hard truth, but it is what it is. I'm not even sure how to advise my sons on this when they're older. I don't want to encourage fornication, but at the same time I know how the world in general and women in particular look at guys who are virgins.

Maybe the way to go is advising a son to be as manly as possible and project that he COULD if he wanted to but he doesn't because it's sinful. Tim Teebow would probably be the best example of this I can think of, for the Americans here who are old enough to remember him. For the non-Americans and younger guys, he was a devoutly Christian pro American Football player who was open about avoiding extramarital sex.

The point was don't act like you deserve a virgin if you yourself aren't one. There should be the same element of rejection from female virgins.

 

[Shaquilleoatmeal]

The point was don't act like you deserve a virgin if you yourself aren't one. There should be the same element of rejection from female virgins.

But there isn’t. Female virgins don’t push back against male non virgins seeking a virgin. This needs to be called out.

either one if two things needs to happen:

1. Female virgins start exclusively seeking male virgins (this won’t happen, but in theory it could)
2. Society admits male and female virginity are different (also won’t happen due to feminism)

 

[Samseau]

But there isn’t. Female virgins don’t push back against male non virgins seeking a virgin. This needs to be called out.

either one if two things needs to happen:

1. Female virgins start exclusively seeking male virgins (this won’t happen, but in theory it could)
2. Society admits male and female virginity are different (also won’t happen due to feminism)

Neither will happen, and it is silly to think that it will.

Be the master of your own reality, stop caring what everyone else is doing, and go for what God deems best for you. Ask him to lead you and just act.

 

[pole85]

What are you talking about? Why would your sex life with your potential young future wife matter to your potential children you have with her?

I once caught a 24 year old gf cheating basically with a coworker because of texts they sent each other.

A few weeks later, I asked what her mom said about the whole thing since we broke up over it and apparently this was the lesson from her mom: "don't put things like that in writing."

That's why it matters who you marry.

 

[Get2choppaaa]

I once caught a 24 year old gf cheating basically with a coworker because of texts they sent each other.

A few weeks later, I asked what her mom said about the whole thing since we broke up over it and apparently this was the lesson from her mom: "don't put things like that in writing."

That's why it matters who you marry.

Never in writing....always in cash.

 

[Samseau]

I once caught a 24 year old gf cheating basically with a coworker because of texts they sent each other.

A few weeks later, I asked what her mom said about the whole thing since we broke up over it and apparently this was the lesson from her mom: "don't put things like that in writing."

That's why it matters who you marry.

He did not describe anything remotely like cheating. He described a girl who believed, mistakenly, that virginity was just the vagina. That does not indicate a girl who will cheat.

 

[Unending Powerhouse Match]

He did not describe anything remotely like cheating. He described a girl who believed, mistakenly, that virginity was just the vagina. That does not indicate a girl who will cheat.

If a woman has had phalluses everywhere other than there, and still calls herself a virgin, it indicates that she:
- Is either cartoonishly stupid, a boldfaced liar, or both
- Has zero impulse control and dodges accountability like something out of high-level Touhou gameplay (values the social label of "virgin", still engages in every sexual act known to man except one, wants people to give her that label forever regardless)

I would argue that these traits make her very likely to cheat. More importantly, you owe it to your future children to find them some better genes than that.

 

[pole85]

He did not describe anything remotely like cheating. He described a girl who believed, mistakenly, that virginity was just the vagina. That does not indicate a girl who will cheat.

My example is close enough. Is it a coincidence that the daughter was a cheater, when the moms lesson regarding cheating was how not to get caught (instead of how could do that even!?).

So with your example, your future daughters will be blowing dudes and letting them use their asses in highschool, because mom also thinks it's a good idea to use as a tool to get men but keep what you want (virgin status, lol). If she's that calculated, she'll be a calculated cheater too imo. But even without, it's bad enough you wouldn't want it for your kids.

 

[Douglas Quaid]

I would rather be with a non-virgin than a "virgin" that's had anal sex. Anal sex is about as big of a red flag as it gets.

 

[Sandalwood Peak]

The point was don't act like you deserve a virgin if you yourself aren't one. There should be the same element of rejection from female virgins.

I don’t understand this debate. There are definitely double standards in nature. Men have way more leeway for fornication, drug use, anything really than a woman.

As far as I know most virgin women lose it to degenerates anyway, if that makes anyone happy here.

• We don’t live in a society where you can do this kind of social engineering; virgin + virgin. Literally doesn’t matter what I or anyone thinks on this subject.
• It’s better for a virgin woman to have a God fearing man than to wait around for a virgin man.
• God will punish you if you end up corrupting a virgin [innocent] soul, especially since you’re demanding one.
• You’re not in control of your circumstances. You can want whatever you want, you will get what you can get. Might even miss out, God doesn’t announce it when he sends blessings.

I’m not sure why this is a point of contention. I’m not worried some womanizer is going to get a virgin. I can’t prevent people sinning and he’s not “winning” or “gaming the system”, if he’s a bad guy he will be punished accordingly by God. If he is a good guy then I see nothing wrong with it.

 

[Samseau]

If a woman has had phalluses everywhere other than there, and still calls herself a virgin, it indicates that she:
- Is either cartoonishly stupid, a boldfaced liar, or both
- Has zero impulse control and dodges accountability like something out of high-level Touhou gameplay (values the social label of "virgin", still engages in every sexual act known to man except one, wants people to give her that label forever regardless)

I would argue that these traits make her very likely to cheat. More importantly, you owe it to your future children to find them some better genes than that.

Or, far more likely, is that she has some kind of guilt complex given to her by terrible parenting. She has childhood issues that need to be worked out before she's marriage material and a good courtship process will work this out as she matures.

My example is close enough. Is it a coincidence that the daughter was a cheater, when the moms lesson regarding cheating was how not to get caught (instead of how could do that even!?).

So with your example, your future daughters will be blowing dudes and letting them use their asses in highschool, because mom also thinks it's a good idea to use as a tool to get men but keep what you want (virgin status, lol). If she's that calculated, she'll be a calculated cheater too imo. But even without, it's bad enough you wouldn't want it for your kids.

Simply ridiculous, the idea that the man cannot change or influence the wife to improve for the future daughters is both false and absurd. Weak, passive men have no effect on their women, sure. But if you actually lead your woman you will work out whatever sexual traumas she's had.

I would rather be with a non-virgin than a "virgin" that's had anal sex. Anal sex is about as big of a red flag as it gets.

It makes no difference in my experience. Some of the most manipulative women I've ever met were prudes while some of the sweetest and nicest women were full on kink.

 

[Rational1]

I once caught a 24 year old gf cheating basically with a coworker because of texts they sent each other.

A few weeks later, I asked what her mom said about the whole thing since we broke up over it and apparently this was the lesson from her mom: "don't put things like that in writing."

That's why it matters who you marry.

Wow, she learned to hide her cheating ways from her mom, sickening. Here’s the red pill about it all. If a woman is good at cheating you will never know about it. I was talking with a colleague and I have to fact check these numbers, but with all the DNA testing these days he said something like between 5-15% of people tested in one study were found to have different fathers than what their mothers told them. All these hoes are being exposed.

 

[analyst_green]

It makes no difference in my experience. Some of the most manipulative women I've ever met were prudes while some of the sweetest and nicest women were full on kink.

That's because everyone is predisposed to certain sins. A woman who enjoys kink or anal sex may be a hedonistic pleasure junkie with little self-control, but that doesn't mean she is actively willing to hurt other people. Many of us on here know what it is like to have those passions.

On the contrary, some women exhibit very little desire for carnal pleasure and aren't as tempted by the sexual sins. But some of these women have no qualms hurting others through their manipulation and deceit to get what they want. Men can be this way too, but we are more likely to lash out with physical violence instead.

And maybe you're lucky to meet a woman who has none of the above problems. Well, it could turn out that she is prideful and disobedient, or that she has a bad temper, or one of any of the many issues that can cause you major problems down the line. It really is a case of pick your poison. That's why above all it's crucial to marry a woman with genuine faith, who recognizes her own weakness and passions, and who is actively fighting against them and struggling for salvation.

 

[Douglas Quaid]

It makes no difference in my experience. Some of the most manipulative women I've ever met were prudes while some of the sweetest and nicest women were full on kink.

I don't disagree about the prudes. I've recently met a few that are very unpleasant and bitter, act weird and treat men like garbage. I think American culture in general is in serious decline, regardless of people's sexual activity.

But I personally think anal sex is disgusting and consider it a major red flag if women engage in it.

 

[Unending Powerhouse Match]

Or, far more likely, is that she has some kind of guilt complex given to her by terrible parenting.

What, you mean like, exceedingly strict, misguided helicopter parents who are Christian? First of all, condemning that kind of parenting is, past a certain point, a Jewish psyop. That's just the best style of parenting that unintelligent and low-information Christian boomers, who mean well and who can see that the entire world is falling apart, are capable of coming up with. It's definitely not good, but it's really not as big of a deal as people make it out to be. People keep acting like it permanently destroys a child and like it's an excuse for horrible behaviors of this magnitude.

I had parents like that, and it certainly did stunt my growth in various ways, but experiencing the real world for a couple years and forgiving my parents fixed that, and I assure you, having parents like that did not somehow keep me from understanding the concept of virginity. It's not a complicated abstract philosophical thing, this stuff is obvious to illiterate sub-80IQ South American village women.

"It's somehow all her parents' fault that she thinks she can be a whore and still be a virgin, you can still make a marriage work with her, you can fix her, she's not FUBAR'd goods just because of this" - How about no? How about having some standards? You can lead a woman, yes, but how about trying to get some half-decent starting material to work with? People need to forgive their evangelical boomer parents. They will not feel whole until they do. This "fuck you dad" stuff needs to die already.

You can definitely make things work with a non-virgin, but if she's literally delusional on top of that, she is going to bring you a world of headaches.

 

[Blade Runner]

Because I suspect some guys making comments didn’t succeed at it and want to throw shade on those who did succeed in getting a virgin like yourself. I speak about this with certain members all the time. It’s competitiveness and ego. Most men (or people in general) operate in a state of envy. Instead of for example looking at you and thinking “Great for him, I’m happy for him and his wonderful family.” Your success probably makes them feel inadequate.

This is something that needs to be disseminated quarterly over the forum, because as much as we see things clearly around here, we also often fail in the tradeoff of this type of principle and truth seeking personality, the associated trait of competitiveness and general proclivity towards ego (which can be substantiated by success of a type, or perhaps called "confidence"). I will admit that what comes out in me emotionally when I see others have success might be that I don't understand it, but it's not trying to bring others down for the success they have, unless I know the entire situation is clearly ridiculous and manipulated - then I might call it out for what it is. Envy of that sort just causes more problems for everyone, in my view, but I understand it's not something that is controllable in the logical or practical sense (it's an emotion and thus irrational).

But there isn’t. Female virgins don’t push back against male non virgins seeking a virgin. This needs to be called out.

Denying this is a basic denial of just reality and worries me a bit because it's an egalitarian idea that quite frankly is irrelevant like most things in "equity"- I think actually it is a misunderstanding of reciprocity.

It’s better for a virgin woman to have a God fearing man than to wait around for a virgin man.

And this is absolutely correct too. One has to remember that largely, the gift of virginity is to the man. There are many biological and sex reasons for this, but mainly it's that purity is fairly irrelevant from a woman's point of view because sex is not an easy thing to get access to, historically, for a man (like it is for a woman, certainly). As a result, it's a major comment on both of the partners, even if there is an ideal out there for virgins getting married.

You’re not in control of your circumstances. You can want whatever you want, you will get what you can get. Might even miss out, God doesn’t announce it when he sends blessings.

Preach on. If we're honest, we've all had some chances, that sometimes we're bothered by missing, and others are OK with. That's because there is a context for all of it. I'm here to remind people also, that especially given the trajectory of the world right now, being single can be a blessing (almost only for men though). Don't forget that.

On the contrary, some women exhibit very little desire for carnal pleasure and aren't as tempted by the sexual sins. But some of these women have no qualms hurting others through their manipulation and deceit to get what they want. Men can be this way too, but we are more likely to lash out with physical violence instead.

Lots of good posts and ideas here. Good work. I think as we get older, we just want certain things at certain periods without that much headache. Put in other words, as we age, we want clear ROI. Why that sucks for women as they age is that they just aren't all that attractive for what they desire (from men), which is pretty big and spans decades in terms of effort and wealth creation.

 

[Shaquilleoatmeal]

I have discussed this with other dudes on other areas of the internet and get met with this “hypocrisy” response.

The sentiment is “Chad gets to spend his 20s engaging in pleasurable fornication, and still get plenty of dates and get a virginal wife”, so unfair!!!!!!!!

It all stems from envy. The idea that men who aren’t socially successful (and I hate to be blunt, but us men on this forum aren’t the coolest dudes,) get little women, while “degenerate chads” get to sleep around and aren’t discriminated by even the most chaste women, causes resentment in many Christian men, as they feel like things aren’t “evening out” for them.

It doesn’t work that way. Being an adult means you accept the truth you were given when young.

Life isn’t fair.

 

[Seng Hock]

I have discussed this with other dudes on other areas of the internet and get met with this “hypocrisy” response.

The sentiment is “Chad gets to spend his 20s engaging in pleasurable fornication, and still get plenty of dates and get a virginal wife”, so unfair!!!!!!!!

It all stems from envy. The idea that men who aren’t socially successful (and I hate to be blunt, but us men on this forum aren’t the coolest dudes,) get little women, while “degenerate chads” get to sleep around and aren’t discriminated by even the most chaste women, causes resentment in many Christian men, as they feel like things aren’t “evening out” for them.

It doesn’t work that way. Being an adult means you accept the truth you were given when young.

Life isn’t fair.

Now as a Christian this is one of the things that I hate most. It is absolutely unfair that Thundercocks get to repent after they had their fun, and then God allows them to have their share of virgins for marriage.

Instead of a loyalty program where God rewards those that are true to him, God gives preference to the "lost sheep", "prodigal son" and "missing coin".

I feel like God is shit testing us by purposefully making statutes that if disobeyed, grants those who are alpha enough to disobey abundance in blessings.

As the red pill taught us, we cannot change the conditions that we live in, but we can change ourselves to adapt to the reality. After seeing that life is unfair to men that tried their best to remain faithful to God's teachings and maintain purity, I decide that I will not care about purity and other virtue like that anymore.

The examples of St. Mary of Egypt and St. Augustine does not apply to me, since despite my own weakness I never physically fornicated at all in my life. Instead I will follow in the examples of King Mongkut, he showed that it is never too late to have fun and have the blessings of God at the same time.