People have 3 different dominant types of muscle fibers, based on genetics. For some 1 to a couple of reps maxes would be their natural strength, for others 5-6 reps is best, for others 12+. One is more likely to get injured with 1 rep max lifts if their natural muscle type does not support this. It's easy to check your muscle type in the gym.
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Lifter's Lounge
- Thread starter Hannibal
- Start date
You can easily maintain grip strength using grip training device if you can't workout for some reason.
There's definitely nothing wrong with ATG squats, and that's how oly lifters do it. Main thing is to be properly warmed up, including hips and knees. Such as squatting all the way down without any weight and shifting weight from leg to leg staying in that low position, partially on your toes. On top of general warm up. Plus sitting low with just a bar alone, pausing at the low point for a while too. A lot of injuries are from lack of warm up or working out heavy in the state of mental turmoil, or overtraining.
There is no one and true test of overall fitness. It all depends on lifestyle and one's life challenges and needs. A strength can be a weakness too, in a different situation.
I'd say for most balanced fitness and strength one needs to do a bit of everything. Weightlifting in the style most suited for their genetics, some oly lifts, sprinting, some "functional training" such as lifting sandbags, flipping tires, cart dragging and pushing, straps, rowing, stretching, endurance running or walking, and some martial art for self defence. Crossfit might be the closest to overall/comprehensive functional fitness and strength training.
I'd say for most balanced fitness and strength one needs to do a bit of everything. Weightlifting in the style most suited for their genetics, some oly lifts, sprinting, some "functional training" such as lifting sandbags, flipping tires, cart dragging and pushing, straps, rowing, stretching, endurance running or walking, and some martial art for self defence. Crossfit might be the closest to overall/comprehensive functional fitness and strength training.
Actually the chance of injury is less with a single due to less fatigued.
I'm not sure that you can say muscle fiber type determines risk of injury.
You train all the muscle fibers in lifts... But people have dominance of one type or another.
Doesn't mean you are more likely to get hurt on a 1 RM. In fact more injuries happen at 2s or 3s than a 1 RM... Usually you teach mechanical failure on the 1 RM and that's it.
Here's Dave Tate explaining why a triple or a double is more likely to injure you:
Maximal effort (90 percent plus) when properly Programmed...teaches you to strain under time and also provide intramuscular coordination over time.
I think what you're talking about is different strength attributes (strength speed vs speed strength)
But I am assuming someone has a technical basis or skill to be doing a 1 RM. Obviously if you can only squat 225 and you put 315 on the bar and no belt and no safety spotter arms... You're going to get Pancaked. But say you can squat 225 for a max and you try 230 (102 percent of previous 1rm) for 1 vs 215 ( 96 perfent for 2.) You're more likey to get hurt on the triple here.
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By muscle fiber type I mean below. Each person has one type as dominant as genetically determined. Each type is suited for certain duration of effort, 1 rep being the short one. 1-2 rep max training is not recommended for all people/not suited for all equally. Not everyone is designed best for oly lifts or powerlifting with 1 rep max training genetic predisposition. Not just muscles but neurons and connective tissues differ based on dominant fiber type. Energy pathway for fast twitch muscle effort is different.
This classification technique leads to 3 fiber types: fast-twitch glycolytic (FG), fast-twitch oxidative (FOG), and slow-twitch oxidative (SO).
Skeletal muscle tissue can be comprised of 3 different muscle fibers (sometimes called cells) which are type 1, type IIa and type IIb.
(FG is type IIb)
Examples of gym test to determine one's dominant muscle fiber type:
https://www.topendsports.com/testing/tests/muscle-fiber-composition.htm
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Yes. This is true that there are different muscle fiber types... But even more so, I'd you've got a really explosive fast twitch guy whose lifting heavy tripples... He's still more likely to get hurt with those tripples than a Max single.
I edited my response to add some clarification of what I was getting at as to why 1rm is often safer for an experienced lifter...
Take a look at the video if interested as dave Tate, was called zippy due to explosivity ....
Sorry not trying to split hairs, just clarifying a contextual argument within strenght training.
So my point is that If youre a grinder like me...vs an explosive lifter... You still need to work in both intensity zones with the correct weight percentages.
I'll post my last week's worth of work outs in the Powerlifting thread... I've broken down some percentages in there and methodology.
You still have unavoidable genetic component. For all the oly lifters trainjng uninjured there are tons of permanently injured people. I personally consider both 1RM or 2RM unsafe having had many sports injuries over the course of my life and longevity of being able to lift and do things a top priority.
Best training I consider to be the classics of 5 sets of 5 reps, scientifically proven to increase strength the best and well known by coaches. With higher reps work thrown in for injury prevention reasons and oly lifts without maxing out for explosive power
Best training I consider to be the classics of 5 sets of 5 reps, scientifically proven to increase strength the best and well known by coaches. With higher reps work thrown in for injury prevention reasons and oly lifts without maxing out for explosive power
I would argue that Olympic weightlifting all together is a recipe for most to get injured.
CrossFit demonstrated this very very well.
I like snatch grip deadlifts and power shrugs... And that's about it.
But again, we are needing to recognize that most people are very casual lifters so this is appropriate.
Oly lifting while maxing out is highly risky but I mentioned oly lifts without maxing out. Only competitive athletes need to max out on oly lifts, really, there is no tangible benefits versus risk reward for a regular person.
Crossfit is not doing proper oly lifting, with proper form, recovery, duration, etc. Their style is atrocious and highly risky, it's not even considered oly lifting by real oly lifters. It's their own thing right there along with uncle Rhabdo
See that's my point about regular maxing out.
It can absolutely be done regularly with variety...but the implications is that you have technical proficiency.
Very very very few people are exposed to Oly limping outside of CrossFit...
There are 4 ways to increase strength according to the science and principles of strength training by zatsiorsky. That book might be a meme but I read it eight years ago and this always stuck with me.
Max effort - low reps, pretty obvious. Lot of different ways to do this and they all involve some flavor of 10 to 30 reps for singles, doubles, or triples. Powerlifters are 100% the best people to ask about this, as they have gotten the fatigue and nervous system management down to a science. You can't peak your strength forever, of course.
Lifting to failure - classic, also obvious. Bodybuilders do this more or less all the time. My general favorite method of training because I just go til I cant, don't even have to count reps. Anywhere from sets of 6 to as high as 30. Probably the most brainless approach and lends itself well to what I call "lifting for fun".
Lifting a weight with maximum speed - a lot harder to effectively program or do safely so this is out for most people. I suppose hill sprints for the legs might do this. Picking up a moderately heavy sandbag and slinging it over the shoulder as hard as you can also does this. Squat jumps with a barbell, push presses with the barbell, cleans I suppose. Oly lifts aren't recommended without proper coaching, but oly lifts with dumbbells are a lot less technical because you dont have to shimmy your body around a bar at speed. The focus is on maximum speed so when your reps slow down, you stop. Do not grind these.
Submaximal lifting for submaximal amount of reps - so for example 5 sets of 8 reps of a weight that you can comfortably do. Tends toward larger volume, I'd recommend no less than 30 total reps per mpvement if not more. Do that for 6 to 8 weeks then bump the weight up a bit. It is very easy to phone it in with this approach which is probably why I never grew a cape and flew with this method. Gymnasts apparently favor this and they call it "steady state" training.
Pick one method and grind it out til it stops working, then pick a different one.
As far as methods.
The strength training modality with the most carryover to everything else is probably sandbag lifting, since they are so wiley to pick up with the hands. The center of gravity is far away from yours as well. You need strong arms and a strong grip to lift them. As Brian Alsruhe says, if you can lift a 300 lb sandbag, you can lift a 300 lb anything.
So for all the "functional training" guys out there and for whatever reason, that number seems to get larger by the day, if you don't want to pick up heavy iron but still want very useable strength, pick up somewhat less heavy but no less challenging sand.
A good sandbag can be bought or built and the cost of sand is pennies on the dollar compared to iron.
Or you can be terrible like me and buy them off ali express about 80% cheaper than you can buy them from american companies that just stitch their name on the chinese made sandbags.
Max effort - low reps, pretty obvious. Lot of different ways to do this and they all involve some flavor of 10 to 30 reps for singles, doubles, or triples. Powerlifters are 100% the best people to ask about this, as they have gotten the fatigue and nervous system management down to a science. You can't peak your strength forever, of course.
Lifting to failure - classic, also obvious. Bodybuilders do this more or less all the time. My general favorite method of training because I just go til I cant, don't even have to count reps. Anywhere from sets of 6 to as high as 30. Probably the most brainless approach and lends itself well to what I call "lifting for fun".
Lifting a weight with maximum speed - a lot harder to effectively program or do safely so this is out for most people. I suppose hill sprints for the legs might do this. Picking up a moderately heavy sandbag and slinging it over the shoulder as hard as you can also does this. Squat jumps with a barbell, push presses with the barbell, cleans I suppose. Oly lifts aren't recommended without proper coaching, but oly lifts with dumbbells are a lot less technical because you dont have to shimmy your body around a bar at speed. The focus is on maximum speed so when your reps slow down, you stop. Do not grind these.
Submaximal lifting for submaximal amount of reps - so for example 5 sets of 8 reps of a weight that you can comfortably do. Tends toward larger volume, I'd recommend no less than 30 total reps per mpvement if not more. Do that for 6 to 8 weeks then bump the weight up a bit. It is very easy to phone it in with this approach which is probably why I never grew a cape and flew with this method. Gymnasts apparently favor this and they call it "steady state" training.
Pick one method and grind it out til it stops working, then pick a different one.
As far as methods.
The strength training modality with the most carryover to everything else is probably sandbag lifting, since they are so wiley to pick up with the hands. The center of gravity is far away from yours as well. You need strong arms and a strong grip to lift them. As Brian Alsruhe says, if you can lift a 300 lb sandbag, you can lift a 300 lb anything.
So for all the "functional training" guys out there and for whatever reason, that number seems to get larger by the day, if you don't want to pick up heavy iron but still want very useable strength, pick up somewhat less heavy but no less challenging sand.
A good sandbag can be bought or built and the cost of sand is pennies on the dollar compared to iron.
Or you can be terrible like me and buy them off ali express about 80% cheaper than you can buy them from american companies that just stitch their name on the chinese made sandbags.
01qà
Batman
Heritage
The whole discussion about knee position with squats annoys me. Everyone has different biomechanics. Some people may be more suited to the ATG knees past their toes, and I say if you can do it that way, you should. I have ALWAYS squatted this way (almost 10 yrs) and never had an injuries, sprains, soreness etc. Then again, i'm a hair over 6' with long legs and absurdly strong knees so maybe not everyone can do this. Even when I squatted 290lbs ATG with no belt it felt amazing. Maybe if I was actually strong enough to do respectable weights I'd find out if it's viable to do this once you get past 3 plates. But I have seen many tall guys do ATG with 3+ plates.
Forgive me...My intent is just to communicate that most people, in my opinion, would be better focused learning a rippetoe style squat or something even like a parallel box squat with verticle shin angle to avoid sheering on the knees.
You're absolutely right there are different biomechanics. Some people have healthy knees, long shins and short femurs, ect ect.
If you have a shallow hip angle vs deep hip angle, you might need lifted shoes for knee mobility ECT...
Also some people have healthy shoulders and can behind the neck press... Some can't.
Batman
Heritage
My remark wasn't at you as much as it was at the community in general. There are constant contradictions about this from fitness instructors on yoututbe for instance (not that they matter).
I has solution:
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I give these a couple snortskies before sets... Keeps me in a Rick Flair Wooooooo! State of mind.
Motivation
Does anyone even get 100 g protein a day?
Has anyone done a natty or not workout regimen?
I was wondering if his The End, in and out (maximalization) was worth it since he's a no BS person. I sorta didn't want to buy it with a CC though, due to privacy concerns.
Has anyone done a natty or not workout regimen?
I was wondering if his The End, in and out (maximalization) was worth it since he's a no BS person. I sorta didn't want to buy it with a CC though, due to privacy concerns.