Jay Dyer Thread

[GodfatherPartTwo]

The point I was making was that it's a stretch to say that Jay doesn't name the Jew because his wife dabbled in tarot cards before joining the Church.

That's not the point I was making. I didn't suggest that he doesn't talk about Jews because his wife is into tarot cards. I meant to say it this way: he might not talk about Jews because his wife is Jewish, so Jewish that she practices witchcraft. You can even read her post on reddit, where she said she "incorporates Christianity" into her practice of magic.

It's also worth pointing out that Jay is anti-zionist in terms of his geo-political views, he doesn't have a philo-Jewish stance at all.

He once joined EO, left for RC, left for EO, then wrote articles against Christianity when studying rabbinical Judaism, then eventually left for EO again. Color me skeptical.

The Orthodox that want to silence him are usually the liberal types that don't actually believe Church dogma and want to conform to the world.

I also don't like that he and Sorem are essentially trying to start a church within their own church. From what I can tell, these guys are not too popular within Orthodoxy at large. But that's their fight, not something that concerns me at the end of the day.

Ultimately since you so strongly disagree with his theology you're not going see as much positive in his activities as I do.

I do not care for the way he misrepresents his opponents, not only people from my school, but I find the practice intellectualy dishonest in general. And when he misrepresents people of my persuasion, people like me have to straighten out the coin. Being lied about is nothing new, but the true victims of dishonesty are the followers who fall for it.

 

[OrthoSerb]

That's not the point I was making. I didn't suggest that he doesn't talk about Jews because his wife is into tarot cards. I meant to say it this way: he might not talk about Jews because his wife is Jewish, so Jewish that she practices witchcraft. You can even read her post on reddit, where she said she "incorporates Christianity" into her practice of magic.

You keep repeating that his wife practices witchcraft as if you're talking about the present. I'm not sure which post you're referring to, I don't use Reddit - did she make it after her entry into the Church? A google search brings up this post which was written 10 years ago:

.

Jay only married his wife after they both converted so she wouldn't have been his wife at the time she was dabbling in the occult - unless of course you can demonstrate she's dabbled in the occult since converting.

He once joined EO, left for RC, left for EO, then wrote articles against Christianity when studying rabbinical Judaism, then eventually left for EO again. Color me skeptical.

I know he went through multiple denominations, but this is the first time I've seen someone state he joined the Orthodox Church on three seperate occasions. Again, you might know more than me. On what basis are you claiming this?

I also don't like that he and Sorem are essentially trying to start a church within their own church. From what I can tell, these guys are not too popular within Orthodoxy at large. But that's their fight, not something that concerns me at the end of the day.

This is not the sense I get at all. Fr Deacon Ananias doesn't even run his own parish in Montana. He is obedient to his priest and bishop. Jay teaches theology but always points away for himself when it comes to spiritual matters or advice. Like I said above, Jay is typically not popular with those who want Orthodoxy to be malleable to worldly concerns and interests. He's inconvenient to them, its not that he's teaching his own innovative theology. Such people don't want anyone else to have a platform that challenges their milquetoast teachings or innovations. There are also those Orthodox, as I mentioned previously, that agree with his theological positions but just don't like his temperament or style, which is different.

I do not care for the way he misrepresents his opponents, not only people from my school, but I find the practice intellectualy dishonest in general. And when he misrepresents people of my persuasion, people like me have to straighten out the coin. Being lied about is nothing new, but the true victims of dishonesty are the followers who fall for it.

Well I've only watched or read a small percentage of the content that Jay has produced so I can't vouch for it all (or even claim to understand everything I have watched or read). But we're going to disagree with each other in terms of your statement about Jay's intellectual dishonesty and lies. What I would say is that you would do better to focus on the theological points you think are wrong and defend your position. The comments about how his wife dabbles in the occult (despite any evidence its post-conversion), how she's Jewish (despite her being Orthodox), how Jay wandered through too many denominations prior to finally joining the Church etc etc feel like distractions that emanate from your dislike of Jay's theological leanings and the way he communicates (rather than being genuine concerns that are productive to debate).

 

[GodfatherPartTwo]

I'm not sure which post you're referring to, I don't use Reddit - did she make it after her entry into the Church?

Not sure. But if what you say is true, that they both married after they converted, then yes.

Jay only married his wife after they both converted so she wouldn't have been his wife at the time she was dabbling in the occult - unless of course you can demonstrate she's dabbled in the occult since converting.

She says right there in the opening that she's married to a "professional conspiracy theorist." Is that not Dyer? All in the same post where she talks about practicing magic.

I know he went through multiple denominations, but this is the first time I've seen someone state he joined the Orthodox Church on three seperate occasions. Again, you might know more than me. On what basis are you claiming this?

https://bayouhuguenot.wordpress.com/2012/07/16/towards-a-christian-response-to-jay-dyer-part-1/

Here are his Jewish arguments against all branches of Christianity that he has since deleted from his site. And checking the source again, I misspoke. It would seem to be two separate occasions that he embraced Orthodoxy.

Like I said above, Jay is typically not popular with those who want Orthodoxy to be malleable to worldly concerns and interests. He's inconvenient to them, its not that he's teaching his own innovative theology.

What do you think of Craig Truglia? I've listened to him and the answers they gave on the Orthodox Canon were very different.

Well I've only watched or read a small percentage of the content that Jay has produced so I can't vouch for it all (or even claim to understand everything I have watched or read).

This is why he gets away with murder on certain topics.

The comments about how his wife dabbles in the occult (despite any evidence its post-conversion), how she's Jewish (despite her being Orthodox), how Jay wandered through too many denominations prior to finally joining the Church etc etc feel like distractions that emanate from your dislike of Jay's theological leanings and the way he communicates (rather than being genuine concerns that are productive to debate).

His theological leanings are not blame worthy, but his constant misrepresentation of everyone who disagrees with him is. I've given you the evidence to show you that his story stinks, do with it what you will.

Personally, I am highly skeptical of individuals who read the New Testament to up their salesmanship, or read it in order to incorporate it into their magical practices.

 

[OrthoSerb]

Not sure.

If you're not sure then its not logical or charitable to assume the worst. As I keep pointing out, the issue at hand is not whether Jay's wife once dabbled in the occult, its whether she still does, or whether she did post-conversion.

She says right there in the opening that she's a married to a "professional conspiracy theorist." Is that not Dyer? All in the same post where she talks about practicing magic.

No, its not Jay being referenced. I pointed out that this post was made 10 years ago. Jamie wasn't married to Jay at that point, they married something like 3 years ago. In fact 10 years ago she appears to have been in a marriage with the following individual, who describes himself as being at the forefront of conspiracy theory: https://freemantv.com/bio-freeman-fly/.

https://bayouhuguenot.wordpress.com/2012/07/16/towards-a-christian-response-to-jay-dyer-part-1/

Here are his Jewish arguments against all branches of Christianity that he has since deleted from his site.

Jay published the article in 2012 and he has since removed it from his site, presumably because he no longer stands by it. You make it sounds like its a bad thing he removed the article and that its indicative of current beliefs. Again, its not in question that Jay once subscribed to un-Orthodox beliefs or even entertained un-Christian beliefs. He was searching and struggling with various questions in his twenties, its a positive thing he ended up solidly in the Church and able to communicate what he learnt in a way that helped others.

And checking the source again, I misspoke. It would seem to be two separate occasions that he embraced Orthodoxy.

I'm fairly certain Jay only entered the Church once and that he's stayed in it since then. He may have taken an interest in Orthodoxy earlier than that and vascillated before joining. Are you able to share the source so people can actually ascertain which claim you are making?

What do you think of Craig Truglia? I've listened to him and the answers they gave on the Orthodox Canon were very different.

I've watched less of him compared to Jay. I think Craig seems like a genuine truth-seeker. His scope of interest seems narrower so I find less content of his that I am that interested in watching. I think part of what makes Jay influential or popular is his ability to tie together topics that seem disparate into a coherent whole. Jay and Craig may well have a different view on elements of Canon law. I haven't watched either talk on that topic in the recent past and its quite a vague statement so without more information I'm not sure what you are trying to say? It's not difficult to find two Orthodox apologists that disagree with each other on some points of theology.

This is why he gets away with murder on certain topics.

You are repeating vague generalisations that can't be directly addressed. This is another example. I may have watched less than 5% of the thousands of hours of content that Jay has put out but I'm not sure why that allows Jay to get away with murder. Surely if I've watched 100+ hours of content I can make some kind of informed judgement as to his general trustworthiness, accuracy and approach without having to watch everything.

His theological leanings are not blame worthy, but his constant misrepresentation of everyone who disagrees with him is. I've given you the evidence to show you that his story stinks, do with it what you will.

So far at least a couple of your claims have been wrong or misleading, whilst for others you have not provided any evidence for what you are asserting. Underlying all of this seems to be a cavalier approach to timelines, with you simply referencing stances or actions from 10-15 years ago and then presenting them as being current issues. In some cases you appear not to know that what you are referencing is not recent or indicative of the present. In other cases you seem to know full well but don't want to let the context get in the way of an opportunity to undermine Jay.

Personally, I am highly skeptical of individuals who read the New Testament to up their salesmanship, or read it in order to incorporate it into their magical practices.

Again, there is no evidence whatsoever that either Jay or his wife are undertaking magical practices, yet alone incorporating the New Testament into such practices. Are you able to demonstrate your claim?

 

[Iacobus]

For the record, this is the "Jewish arguments" article: https://web.archive.org/web/2012012...2010/09/05/jewish-objections-to-christianity/

He posted these explicitly for discussion and finding answers to issues he was struggling with (as a Christian). I don't see how this can be interpreted as him arguing in favor of Judaism.

 

[GodfatherPartTwo]

Again, there is no evidence whatsoever that either Jay or his wife are undertaking magical practices, yet alone incorporating the New Testament into such practices. Are you able to demonstrate your claim?

Is her claim that her practice of white magic is a mix of Taoism and a mix of Christianity, not evidence? She says in her reddit post that she believes the Church is covering up the truth about God and that she likes Jesus because he was a "feminist" but is undecided on the "historical" Jesus. If she has recanted of these views since joining the EOC, then that's good, but is there any evidence that she has?

Jay and Craig may well have a different view on elements of Canon law. I haven't watched either talk on that topic in the recent past and its quite a vague statement so without more information I'm not sure what you are trying to say?

I brought him up because you mentioned that the reason Dyer is disliked is because he is an ass, not because his theology is woo woo. But on the Canon of Scripture, not Canon Law, the answers they give for the Orthodox Canon are different. Whereas Dyer gives the typical CatholicAnswers claim that the Church canonized the Orthodox Canon in an Ecumenical Council, Truglia says that the Orthodox Canon was never canonized in an Ecumenical Council, similar to the Protestant Canon. If you take them both at their sources, Truglia's claim bears out. You don't think Dyer's constant misrepresentation of history is one of the reasons why he is disliked by the larger Orthodox community?

 

[Northumber]

I've listened to Jay and his wife enough to know that she does address her previous life, fairly frequently, in the critical sense (highly critical sense). Many of her topics on her channel seem to be pointing out and showing how witchcraft and satanism is all over the place in our popular culture (taylor swift, disney, popular movies/shows, government). She's very good at pointing out specifics (most likely because she was in it).

And yes, Jay is an ass, but at this point in our overly feminized culture I can overlook that. It's probably needed.

 

[Iacobus]

Is her claim that her practice of white magic is a mix of Taoism and a mix of Christianity, not evidence? She says in her reddit post that she believes the Church is covering up the truth about God and that she likes Jesus because he was a "feminist" but is undecided on the "historical" Jesus. If she has recanted of these views since joining the EOC, then that's good, but is there any evidence that she has?

Explicitly recanting your non-Orthodox views and confessing the Creed is a mandatory part of entering the Orthodox Church.

 

[OrthoSerb]

Is her claim that her practice of white magic is a mix of Taoism and a mix of Christianity, not evidence? She says in her reddit post that she believes the Church is covering up the truth about God and that she likes Jesus because he was a "feminist" but is undecided on the "historical" Jesus. If she has recanted of these views since joining the EOC, then that's good, but is there any evidence that she has?

You're still referring to 10-year old posts from before someone converted. She has since joined the Church, so of course she's not undecided on Jesus. It's very straight-forward to find her current publically stated beliefs which contradicts what you are asserting. For example:





Further up I asked for evidence for multiple assertions you made which you seem to have chosen to ignore. You initially stated that Jay left the Church twice, then amended that to once and then ignored my request for clarification on what you were referring to. It's not really an honest interaction when you can claim things without evidence and then move on silently when someone asks for more information. You also seem have ignored the request for evidence that Jamie and Jay use the New Testament to practice magic. I'm also now questioning whether Jamie is even ethnically Jewish as I'd never read or heard that before you asserted it. Initially I took you at your word, but that doesn't seem to be justified based on our subsequent exchanges.

I brought him up because you mentioned that the reason Dyer is disliked is because he is an ass, not because his theology is woo woo. But on the Canon of Scripture, not Canon Law, the answers they give for the Orthodox Canon are different. Whereas Dyer gives the typical CatholicAnswers claim that the Church canonized the Orthodox Canon in an Ecumenical Council, Truglia says that the Orthodox Canon was never canonized in an Ecumenical Council, similar to the Protestant Canon. If you take them both at their sources, Truglia's claim bears out. You don't think Dyer's constant misrepresentation of history is one of the reasons why he is disliked by the larger Orthodox community?

I'm by no means an expert on the topic and haven't read the sources you are referring to, but my understanding is that Jay's view is the Orthodox one with respect to the Canon of Scripture. And in any case, no I do not think Jay is disliked by Orthodox because he misrepresents history. You don't really have a very strong handle on dynamics within the Orthodox Church if you think that's the case. I don't think I've ever encountered another Orthodox individual that said they dislike Jay because he has the wrong take on the Canon of Scripture. It sounds like that's your reason for disliking him and that you're projecting it onto others. It would be more honest and to the point if you simply voiced your own feelings rather than repeatedly expressing what you present as the views and feelings of Orthodox.

 

[RedLagoon]

People on our side of things usually point out that he never names the Jew. It should be noted that his wife is a Jew who was giving tarot readings not that long ago. But I also don't blame him not wanting to nuke his own youtube channel.

Where is your proof his wife is a jew?

There's a lot of this jew calling being thrown around here lately. I mean I just read that Christopher Walken is a jew buy then he wasn't when the poster couldn't find his imaginary source.

 

[GoodShepherd]

Iv only really started listening to Jay this year, so far I like him I think he does important work, he studies and reads many books that guys like us just dont have the time to do and he tells us what they are about especially of the elite and other faiths and I like that he engages with other faiths and debates them thats a good thing, his shows are very long though would be better if they were shorter.

 

[Iacobus]

Iv only really started listening to Jay this year, so far I like him I think he does important work, he studies and reads many books that guys like us just dont have the time to do and he tells us what they are about especially of the elite and other faiths and I like that he engages with other faiths and debates them thats a good thing, his shows are very long though would be better if they were shorter.

There's a couple channels that make shorter clips out of his content:

https://www.youtube.com/@DyerClips

https://www.youtube.com/@soyfacejay

 

[Raskolnikov]

Where is your proof his wife is a jew?

Jamie is not Jewish, that's nonsense. She had a long form interview two years ago or so, where she pretty much gave her entire life story. She's from a liberal Baptist background.

She's not that young any more, and was involved in sort of gnostic and hermetic stuff, which was actually pretty normal among most alternative/ conspiracy theory people in the 2000s and still is today to a degree.

To my knowledge, she was married before, to one of those conspiracy whackadoodles whose entire shtick is that Obama is some sort of Satanic clone. So, she could have referred to that guy in whatever post is spoken of here.

Laying tarot cards is not a recommendable activity, but it's kinda ridiculous to get bent out of shape over that. You don't really have to subscribe to any worldview or be involved in clandestine groups in order to get into that. The stuff is literally sold with manuals by toy shops. That doesn't make it good, but calling someone an "occult Jew" over that is retarded. Millions of "spiritual, but not religious" women do that.

Even my gypsy great-grandma laid tarot, despite being a god-fearing woman. It has gone out of fashion, but laying tarot just used to be this weird bohème parlour thing people did 100 years ago, and the sets are everywhere. Gypsies did that at fares because it's an easy way to make a few bucks if you're creative.

I'd say it's far more innocuous than Ouija, and even that stuff you can find everywhere. It's not "occult" in the literal sense, it's just a bad practice.

 

[JCSteel]

 

[Raskolnikov]

You're still referring to 10-year old posts from before someone converted

He has a chip on his shoulder because he doesn't like that Orthobros are right. Many such cases.

 

[пуд]

People on our side of things usually point out that he never names the Jew. It should be noted that his wife is a Jew who was giving tarot readings not that long ago. But I also don't blame him not wanting to nuke his own youtube channel.

...I meant to say it this way: he might not talk about Jews because his wife is Jewish, so Jewish that she practices witchcraft. You can even read her post on reddit, where she said she "incorporates Christianity" into her practice of magic.

when i can find the podcast ill link it, but his wife Jamie, said that she was homeschooled in a Christian conservative household. No mention of jewishness, really her personality doesn't present as racial jew at all.

 

[RedLagoon]

She isn't jewish, she grew up Baptist, enough of it already. Also, she doesn't look like one at all, grow the radar guys.

 

[Raskolnikov]

when i can find the podcast ill link it, but his wife Jamie, said that she was homeschooled in a Christian conservative household. No mention of jewishness, really her personality doesn't present as racial jew at all.

I think it's the first of the ones OrthoSerb posted.

 

[Cooper]

That's not the point I was making. I didn't suggest that he doesn't talk about Jews because his wife is into tarot cards. I meant to say it this way: he might not talk about Jews because his wife is Jewish, so Jewish that she practices witchcraft. You can even read her post on reddit, where she said she "incorporates Christianity" into her practice of magic.

Wow, this would completely discredit him.

 

[Raskolnikov]

Wow, this would completely discredit him.

About what?