Donald Trump

[GodfatherPartTwo]

Here's what I'm not understanding; if you think he is that tone deaf and repetitive then why not just hit the Ignore button? Why must a pro-trump position be the default? Why not a position that recognizes Trump oversells and underdelivers?

Is the two-thread solution fair enough or must there be only one Trump thread and it needs to be pro-trump? No one will force you to read the 'Trump: Hero or Zero?' thread. If that's how it goes then I won't consider it good form if he were to abandon that thread, come over to the pro-trump thread and provoke you into argumentation.

 

[eradicator]

Here's what I'm not understanding; if you think he is that tone deaf and repetitive then why not just hit the Ignore button?

I did. If he keeps it up on this forum I’ll do the same here as well.

Why must a pro-trump position be the default?

It’s not. Many of us are pretty sick if his act. We are even more sick of the lobbyists and handlers of Biden and Desantis

Why not a position that recognizes Trump oversells and underdelivers?

Yep. So I am guessing you are good with the alternatives? Have you seen the recent republican debates?

Is the two-thread solution fair enough or must there be only one Trump thread and it needs to be pro-trump? No one will force you to read the 'Trump: Hero or Zero?' thread. If that's how it goes then I won't consider it good form if he were to abandon that thread, come over to the pro-trump thread and provoke you into argumentation.

To a large extent I trust the mods and scorpion and samseau to deal with these problems as they come up.

 

[GodfatherPartTwo]

Yep. So I am guessing you are good with the alternatives? Have you seen the recent republican debates?

Non-sequitur. Doesn't logically follow. This kind of response is demonstrating exactly what is being criticized, the idea that we are going to vote our way out of this and it's just a matter of time before the right guy shows up.

To a large extent I trust the mods and scorpion and samseau to deal with these problems as they come up.

As do I, but you still haven't answered my question; do you think a two-thread solution is fair enough or should there only be one pro-trump thread because there are no good alternatives?

 

[eradicator]

Non-sequitur. Doesn't logically follow. This kind of response is demonstrating exactly what is being criticized, the idea that we are going to vote our way out of this and it's just a matter of time before the right guy shows up.

I’ve been saying it for a while: this (the globo homo fiasco ) ends when we run out of money, the same as the other big empires. Rome, ussr, Britain, Spain, it all ends when we go through a period of catastrophic economic collapse.

As do I, but you still haven't answered my question; do you think a two-thread solution is fair enough or should there only be one pro-trump thread because there are no good alternatives?

To a large extent it doesn’t matter. There aren’t that many posters yet so I understand if we keep it to one thread . Or go ahead and post a Trump haters thread. I will not object. If it turns into another black pill circle jerk, don’t be shocked when it gets shut down

Edit typos

 

[GodfatherPartTwo]

We are having a worldview clash. What you call a "black pill circle jerk" is what I call pointing out that politicians are false idols, therefore, spread the Gospel, preach repentance, focus on things in your control. What you call "voting for the least-worst option" is what I call trusting in a false idol.

What I want to understand; since you admit that Trump is powerless to stop the tide and that a collapse is necessary, then why waste time even voting for him? How is that any less black pilled?

 

[Get2choppaaa]

We are having a worldview clash. What you call a "black pill circle jerk" is what I call pointing out that politicians are false idols, therefore, spread the Gospel, preach repentance, focus on things in your control. What you call "voting for the least-worst option" is what I call trusting in a false idol.

Except the problem was that no-one at this point is seriously making Trump a false idol. Adminration and appreciation are diffent than worship, yet your catigorization forces one or the other. The Pragmatic reality is that we have to chose between someone, or disengage from public life.

If the option you want ins't there and you think disengagement is the key... cool... but for others, they are going to continue to place some hope in the person they elect as being able to benefit their life.

Doesnt mean they "worship" the person as a false idol, incapable of making mistakes.

What I want to understand; since you admit that Trump is powerless to stop the tide and that a collapse is necessary, then why waste time even voting for him? How is that any less black pilled?

Because people want to talk and have hope. If you want to shit on every positve thing a person has... then its going to be met with hostility.

People who constantly piss in every persons cherios are not welcomed for breakfast.

Thats the trend we see with virilent Trump hate.

 

[GodfatherPartTwo]

Except the problem was that no-one at this point is seriously making Trump a false idol. Adminration and appreciation are diffent than worship, yet your catigorization forces one or the other. The Pragmatic reality is that we have to chose between someone, or disengage from public life.

I realize that you do not think Trump is perfect, that doesn't change the fact that he, like all politicians, is a false idol. He will not be the one to save us. We already have something much better than he could ever deliver. Preaching the Gospel is the most pragmatic thing there is.

If the option you want ins't there and you think disengagement is the key... cool... but for others, they are going to continue to place some hope in the person they elect as being able to benefit their life.

I am not arguing for disengagement. We have been commissioned to make disciples of all nations. These political theatricals are distractions from that fact. This means we call them to drop their idols and place their hope in the One who can actually save their life.

Because people want to talk and have hope. If you want to shit on every positve thing a person has... then its going to be met with hostility.

Recognizing that your guy can't save you but fighting for him anyway is not the path to hope, it is the path of despair. There is no hope outside of Jesus Christ.

Thats the trend we see with virilent Trump hate.

I do not hate Trump.

 

[Get2choppaaa]

Ok.... all in agregate: let me digest.

I realize that you do not think Trump is perfect, that doesn't change the fact that he, like all politicians, is a false idol. He will not be the one to save us. We already have something much better than he could ever deliver. Preaching the Gospel is the most pragmatic thing there is.

Preaching the gospel is always encourage. But participating in poltical discourse infavor of XYZ candidate is not in conflict with that. Forgive me, but your logical conclusion is what? that we should only speak about the gospel and not talk about political leaders?

Im confused?

I am not arguing for disengagement. We have been commissioned to make disciples of all nations. These political theatricals are distractions from that fact. This means we call them to drop their idols and place their hope in the One who can actually save their life.

Refer to above. So what? No one is denying Christ. We still have to have leaders. Goverment and leadership is Godly. That is indeed part of functioning within the world. I can post TONS of religious leaders confirming this if you'd like.

Recognizing that your guy can't save you but fighting for him anyway is not the path to hope, it is the path of despair. There is no hope outside of Jesus Christ.


I do not hate Trump.

I agree. IC XC NIKA! ... but we still get to talk. I dont understand what your point is?

Again the comment, when taken to it's logical conclusion means : "meh, doesnt matter whom you vote for its all fucked" or something else? What's your point and MORE OVER what's your counter suggestion? It goes with out saying that we must trust Christ and fulfill our duties as Christians.

For those participating that want the favorable Trump crowd to shut up... what are you offering us other than a constant negative feedback loop?

and of course other than through Christ, there can be no absolution, but with out hope, the world is not worth living. So even if you are in despair and despondant to the world... the human spirit BECAUSE of Christ, is given to hope. Even in our worst moments, we are called to hope and to have faith. That doesnt mean we put faith in a person, but we can put faith in that God is acting through a person to help us in our own salvation.

Every man who has married a woman in the church is charged with leading his wife to salvation. Every wife is charged with bringing children into this world. Together those parents are charged with bringing their children to Christ.

That same charge is the same of public figures. I might put much less stock in a particular President as being able to lead me to the Righteous Path, rather that's something I get from Church... but when there is a ruler who is promoting the country living out more ot those principles than the previous or current regime.... Whom are you to lecture me about supporting a political figure?

 

[GodfatherPartTwo]

Forgive me, but your logical conclusion is what? that we should only speak about the gospel and not talk about political leaders?

Speak about political leaders in light of the Lordship of Christ. The Gospel and Politics are not two separate categories. All things are to be understood in light of the Lordship of Christ. It is the separation of those two categories which brought us to this in the first place.

Again the comment, when taken to it's logical conclusion means : "meh, doesnt matter whom you vote for its all fucked" or something else? What's your point and MORE OVER what's your counter suggestion? It goes with out saying that we must trust Christ and fulfill our duties as Christians.

My point is that evangelizing does far more to attack the root of the evil than voting for a political leader and waiting for him to do it for you. Looking at the culture around us, it is plain to see that doesn't go without saying. Simply checking the 'Christian' box and then turning our attention to politics is not good enough.

and of course other than through Christ, there can be no absolution, but with out hope, the world is not worth living. So even if you are in despair and despondant to the world... the human spirit BECAUSE of Christ, is given to hope. Even in our worst moments, we are called to hope and to have faith. That doesnt mean we put faith in a person, but we can put faith in that God is acting through a person to help us in our own salvation.

That is the second time you have made a distinction between Christ and hope. Christ is our hope!

 

[Get2choppaaa]

Speak about political leaders in light of the Lordship of Christ. The Gospel and Politics are not two separate categories. All things are to be understood in light of the Lordship of Christ. It is the separation of those two categories which brought us to this in the first place.


My point is that evangelizing does far more to attack the root of the evil than voting for a political leader and waiting for him to do it for you. Looking at the culture around us, it is plain to see that doesn't go without saying. Simply checking the 'Christian' box and then turning our attention to politics is not good enough.

This is relevant to Trump how?

That is the second time you have made a distinction between Christ and hope. Christ is our hope!

I dont know what your point is here. I think you're looking to make a disctiontion for a point that wasnt made or being disengeous to imply that I dont recognize that Christ is the pathway through salvation.... but we can still have hope for worldy realities, if you dont belive that then you have a disconnect between your current reality and the future (since I am expecting you think your life will improve .... even if its the tits awesome now)

I mean do you want me to perpetually reword concepts until they fit your defintion of what should be the exact description of what is the perfect utilzation of a word?

What point are you making in the Trump thread?


ETA
Carrying your comments to logical conclusion: we shouldnt talk about trump because people might put faith in him? or becausse what? I honestly am at a loss for your SO WHAT. your point has been made that we should focus on our faith... GOT IT.... and after that we get to vote.... and those of of us who still want to participate are going to vote for Trump...... he's gonna be the nomineeee........REEEE...... So what is the point then?

Doont vote? Dont discuss him? be a hermit? yea thats not the direction ive gotten from my faith or church.... so I reject that.... please elabortate what your getting at in a contributive manner sir!

 

[It_Is_My_Time]

I don’t think anyone is above criticism. I’m not sure if you jremenver It is my times thread : it was going in circles. If he says Trump mishandled covid, abd someone like samseau points out that Trump was in an impossible position, if he had stuck with his original stance of covid being a hoax, he was looking at a real impeachment with his health advisers like Saint Fauci at the impeachment trial saying he’s not taking the deadly covid threat seriously etc.

Then two posts later It is my time is insisting that Trump mismanaged covid etc

*That stuck me as not healthy posting and made it harder for me to take him seriously , and I’m not even a die hard Trump supporter but that line of arguing just makes me want to ignore what he has to say, when in fact I probably agree with a lot of what he’s saying, saying it in a way that makes me shake my head and close the window, well yeah.

Edit now imagine 500 pages just like this with this level of repetition / tone deafness

Then we can't vote our way out of this. If the system is so rigged that an "outsider", as you guys claim, can win the biggest election upset in the history of the world, and then he can't do anything of importance, then voting means nothing. And instead of pouring our energy into that, we need to pour our energy into building something new. A new political party, a new banking system, a new way of life that is righteous.

And that is my ultimate point. Trump showed us we can't vote our way out of it, so worrying about things going on in DC, or winning a race, or even making it to the poll, or even being registered to vote, is a waste of energy and time. And we only have so much energy and time to give to this world.

I could go into a lot more detail about Trump's past and what I think of him, but we are past that now. We need to realize that we need to get a lot more serious about the situation we face and not expect to pull a lever for candidate x and call it a day. And how people respond to Trump and his big talk/no action, is telling of how they really believe towards our situation. And I understand psychologically this is a huge step. That we are truly up against it and the false hope we have been given our entire live, is just that, false. It was given to us to buy them time and to waste our time. Time being our most valuable possession, and they have used it to drain us of it, while robbing the treasury blind, flooding our nation with hostile invaders, shipping our jobs overseas, and teaching our kids sexual deviance.

 

[Cuchulainn]

Then we can't vote our way out of this. If the system is so rigged that an "outsider", as you guys claim, can win the biggest election upset in the history of the world, and then he can't do anything of importance, then voting means nothing. And instead of pouring our energy into that, we need to pour our energy into building something new. A new political party, a new banking system, a new way of life that is righteous.

And that is my ultimate point. Trump showed us we can't vote our way out of it, so worrying about things going on in DC, or winning a race, or even making it to the poll, or even being registered to vote, is a waste of energy and time. And we only have so much energy and time to give to this world.

I could go into a lot more detail about Trump's past and what I think of him, but we are past that now. We need to realize that we need to get a lot more serious about the situation we face and not expect to pull a lever for candidate x and call it a day. And how people respond to Trump and his big talk/no action, is telling of how they really believe towards our situation. And I understand psychologically this is a huge step. That we are truly up against it and the false hope we have been given our entire live, is just that, false. It was given to us to buy them time and to waste our time. Time being our most valuable possession, and they have used it to drain us of it, while robbing the treasury blind, flooding our nation with hostile invaders, shipping our jobs overseas, and teaching our kids sexual deviance.

If voting, or engaging in politics does nothing, then why don't you just skip the politics threads?

You believe voting does nothing, and no politician, ever, is worth supporting, and that's fine. But why are you commenting about politics then? Why waste your time on something you believe is pointless?

It's like a vegan constantly lecturing a steak eater on how great kale and chickpeas are. They both have different views that won't change, one of them is an constant pain though.

 

[Cuchulainn]

but we can still have hope for worldy realities, if you dont belive that then you have a disconnect between your current reality and the future (since I am expecting you think your life will improve .... even if its the tits awesome now)

Trying to parse this sentence and I'm still not sure what you are trying to say here?

 

[It_Is_My_Time]

If voting, or engaging in politics does nothing, then why don't you just skip the politics threads?

You believe voting does nothing, and no politician, ever, is worth supporting, and that's fine. But why are you commenting about politics then? Why waste your time on something you believe is pointless?

It's like a vegan constantly lecturing a steak eater on how great kale and chickpeas are. They both have different views that won't change, one of them is an constant pain though.

Engaging in the two party system, top down controlled by the satanic elites is a waste of time. Putting pressure on them for doing nothing for us, protesting, building your own political party/movement, is the path forward.

There is a big difference in supporting one of the uni-party candidates and being political active.

 

[Get2choppaaa]

Trying to parse this sentence and I'm still not sure what you are trying to say here?

Ha yes... My phrasing and punctuation were not exactly clear:

My point was, we want to align our decisions in a way that we improve our lives... I'm using the phrase "tits awesome" to say "a good thing".

We all chose to act in a way that will be improving our current situation, or at least we try to improve our current situation. So the argument I was making is that we should refute the concept that we don't have agency in the process and should withdraw from participating and engaging in political discourse. And that political discourse deserves a discussion.

 

[Samseau]

What you call "voting for the least-worst option" is what I call trusting in a false idol.

Just because voting is a scam doesn't mean there aren't benifits to the scam that can work for us. The rise of Trump was objectively good for Whites, Christians, and Men. Doesn't matter if Trump can't save America. What matters is what is good for my Neighbors. That Trump was also kind to our enemies was a cherry on top.

America is going to collapse, but collapse isn't even the biggest consideration. Things can collapse in our favor or against our favor. Politics is a never-ending chess game and giving up the game just means you will get crushed when the paradigm shift occurs.

As for third-parties, they all have the exact same problems as the two main parties have. The idea that any political party is going to save us is naïve, therefore, just support the one who can be the most practically useful. Any benefit is better than none.

Our team needs to accumulate as much of a strategic advantage for a post-collapse America to be able to effectively make a move and take control in the chaos. If our side has been totally demolished after 20+ years of Democrat slavery, then it won't matter how America collapses because there won't be many of us left.

 

[It_Is_My_Time]

Just because voting is a scam doesn't mean there aren't benifits to the scam that can work for us. The rise of Trump was objectively good for Whites, Christians, and Men. Doesn't matter if Trump can't save America. What matters is what is good for my Neighbors. That Trump was also kind to our enemies was a cherry on top.

America is going to collapse, but collapse isn't even. Things can collapse in our favor or against our favor. Politics is a never-ending chess game and giving up the game just means you will get crushed when the paradigm shift occurs.

As for third-parties, they all have the exact same problems as the two main parties have. The idea that any political party is going to save us is naïve, therefore, just support the one who can be the most practically useful. Any benefit is better than none.

Our team needs to accumulate as much of a strategic advantage for a post-collapse America to be able to effectively make a move and take control in the chaos. If our side has been totally demolished after 20+ years of Democrat slavery, then it won't matter how America collapses because there won't be many of us left.

I agree with all of this, other than the GOP giving us anything more than the DNC. They have already had the House for almost 2 years and did nothing with it. The presidential debate is who can be the most pro-Israel and pro-Ukraine, and they offer no solutions.

The third party, a party of our own making, is the only political path forward.

 

[GodfatherPartTwo]

Doesn't matter if Trump can't save America.

Then why are you acting like he can?

What matters is what is good for my Neighbors.

How does this translate into "spend time preaching Trump" over "spend that time preaching Jesus?"

I reject the idea that you can have both.

Even the Founding Fathers recognized the spiritual nature of this when they said "Our constitution was made for a moral and religious [Christian] people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." By wasting time preaching Trump, you are offering political solutions to a spiritual problem.

America is going to collapse, but collapse isn't even. Things can collapse in our favor or against our favor. Politics is a never-ending chess game and giving up the game just means you will get crushed when the paradigm shift occurs.

Indeed it will, there is no repentance. There is only a never-ending political shell-game built on secularism. Preaching the Gospel is not "giving up the game." It is the only way to win the long-game.

 

[Blade Runner]

One has to define these terms. If @Samseau says that "collapse isn't even" then that means that what might happen will be something that doesn't unilaterally crush everyone, but rather provides certain paths to certain outcomes, though all may be less ideal (for a while) than they were previously, at least in terms of most people's memory or what they view as a standard of living.

@GodfatherPartTwo, there is repentance of some, and God takes into consideration how many innocents are left. I don't know how many of us are innocent, but I do know that a good but small number are trying to be faithful and repent. The political system that we are used to is totally corrupted, and I think most of us are unaware of how much we take the general goings on in life for granted, but the truth of the matter is that the outcome of all of this will be decided based on how people react to the coming attempts at control once the standard of living drops well past what they were used to. This includes offshoot, regionalization and balkanization possibilities that will be opportunities of a sort when the currency is no longer trusted, but the powers try to convince everyone of a newer one that is trustworthy (the CBDC). How they will do this is obvious, and it scares me since I don't trust the common man or older gov't dependent citizen, in general.

 

[GodfatherPartTwo]

@GodfatherPartTwo, there is repentance of some, and God takes into consideration how many innocents are left. I don't know how many of us are innocent, but I do know that a good but small number are trying to be faithful and repent. The political system that we are used to is totally corrupted, and I think most of us are unaware of how much we take the general goings on in life for granted, but the truth of the matter is that the outcome of all of this will be decided based on how people react to the coming attempts at control once the standard of living drops well past what they were used to. This includes offshoot, regionalization and balkanization possibilities that will be opportunities of a sort when the currency is no longer trusted, but the powers try to convince everyone of a newer one that is trustworthy (the CBDC). How they will do this is obvious, and it scares me since I don't trust the common man or older gov't dependent citizen, in general.

It is good that even those who still support Trump recognize that the coming collapse is inevitable. This is why it is inconsistent of them to continue to support him, as if he can make a difference. His first term shows you that he can't, not a lasting one. They also admit Jesus is Lord, so live in consistency with that!

History has shown that God preserves His people. When America falls and takes secularism with it, the Church will still be standing. Live in that now, not then.