Hopefully nobody will tell Metropolitan Samseau what our Saints thought about democracy, Jew-worship, and the “homosexual lifestyle” which he has now publicly called “trivial.”
It might cause some painful introspection.
100% of the Saints said to obey laws, pay taxes, even to horrible sinners like Nero. Pretty amazing at how you cite facts which destroy your own arguments.
It’s difficult to empathize with the kind of person who agrees that Trump won in 2020 and had the election stolen from him, but now believes voting is totally real and elections matter and democracy is a system which in any way represents the will of the people instead of Israel and the Military-Industrial Complex.
The core of their belief is that after successfully stealing the 2020 election, Democrats and the Deep State decided to stop all the corruption and remove all their assets and change all the rules that allowed them to usurp power in the first place. Fantasies like this demand an explanation for why and in what manner they would do that, and I’m not sure what answer these people could even give beyond “out of the kindness of their hearts” and - even if we were to accept this level of complete delusion and incoherence - they would still have to show us how exactly Democrats and the Deep State removed all the mechanisms that let them cheat and steal just a few years ago.
On a national level, elections are not real and democracy is a lie. I’m at a point in my life where I’m not willing to play make believe and compromise on my values for some childish power fantasy in which a pro-gay, pro-choice Zionist who surrounded himself with Deep State spooks during his first term is secretly not part of the system and was secretly waiting all this secret time until his second term to secretly develop core principles, spiritual beliefs, and the ability to keep promises he entirely failed to keep in the first four years.
I understand that it’s a comforting fantasy on a psychological level, but the spiritual cost of pretending it’s all real and totally legit and this time we’re gonna MAGA or whatever is too steep for me. I’d probably vote if we had Christian candidates and elections were real but instead we have the “leaders” and system we deserve, which are deliberately designed to make low-information people feel like their vote is important and keep the slaves putting their suggestions in the box because maybe - just maybe! - THIS time it’ll all be different.
You and I agree on the premises, but you do not follow the logic to it's correct conclusion.
Yes, the elections are riddled with fraud.
Yes, Trump does dumb things all the time.
Yes, democracy sucks although so does every other form of government.
Guess what? None of these things matter nor are they an excuse to sin and not love our country, and not vote. We vote because,
1. It's the right thing to do, as part of the system established and given to us by God and from the sacrifices of our ancestors.
2. Even if there is fraud, God may have a plan to help us win anyways. We must always have faith and do what is right, even if we think it makes no sense. Righteousness is always paramount.
3. It is not for us to question the government God gives us. The things we experience in this lifetime are to lead us to salvation, and are deliberately given to us by God.
One of the most important commandments of Christ is to
love our enemy,
Although it is natural and usual to love those who love us and to do good to those who do good to us (Mt 5:46-47; Lk 6:32-33), to love our enemies is distasteful to our nature. One can say that it isn’t in our power but is an attitude that can only be the fruit of grace, given by the Holy Spirit. This is why St. Silouan the Athonite writes, "The soul that has not known the Holy Spirit does not understand how one can love one’s enemies, and does not accept it."
The men here who want to say, "Fuck it," and never vote again do so out of hatred for their enemies and their country. This is a sin, and it is because many here are spiritually immature and do not understand or accept the Holy Spirit. I know this feeling, because I used to be the same way when I was younger.
I understand that what I say is not popular. But that's okay, because Jesus was not popular either. I'd rather do what Christ says that what "popular opinion" is.
One should vote out of duty, respect, and honor for one's country. That is the only reason we need. Whether or not the vote is successful is immaterial compared to the spiritual concerns involved.
All of this was already stated in the "Why One Should Vote" thread.
Voting might or not be a waste of time and there might be valid secular arguments about whether in the current times voting fulfills civic duties but to raise it to a duty on the same level as our ones to God and saying it's a sin and not merely a negative thing in the secular realm to not vote is just plain silly to me.
Of course it's not one the same level as other sins. Catholics would call not voting a venial sin, and Orthodox would call it a lesser sin. Holy scripture clearly indicates that different sins are worse than others.
Not voting might be on the same level as cussing out a driver on the road, or something else that is typical of the everyday sinner.
But that doesn't change reality however, and what is a sin is a sin.
It's very ironic how people here stress moral purity, yet when I point out that not voting is also a sin, people lose their cool very quickly. It's a big insult to their pride, which shows they aren't serious about moral purity.
I actually have written about how I think voting is worth it if looked at through a cost benefit analysis. There's no real downside to voting even assuming the the worse case scenario which is that voting has no effect. I plan to vote myself. What I disagree with is that not voting is a sin in the same way lying, fornicating, or coveting is.
Yes, this is the other side to the voting argument. Not only is apathy, indifference, or hatred towards one own's country a sin, but the flipside to voting is about 15 min of one's time, even less if they use a vote by mail ballot (which is a joke, I know).
It's truly baffling at how emotional people here are against doing the right thing.
