Donald Trump: Criticism & Debate Thread

[Samseau]

The solution is easy, in fact the solution has already been done. It is just a matter of getting enough men red pilled to enact the solution again.

Won't happen because the "men" are weakling cowards who won't defend their rights. We saw it on J6. The men have no spirit, no faith, just like you.

Until men like you stop being cowardly, there is no chance anything will change. The first step towards regaining your courage:

Go to Church.

 

[It_Is_My_Time]

Won't happen because the "men" are weakling cowards who won't defend their rights. We saw it on J6. The men have no spirit, no faith, just like you.

Until men like you stop being cowardly, there is no chance anything will change. The first step towards regaining your courage:

Go to Church.

The next generation of men have nothing to lose, the older men, with things to lose are not going to fight. The men coming up are stranded on the beach and the boats were already burned.

 

[Get2choppaaa]

I will pray for you both, if you seriously don't see the massive hordes of poor around us today, don't be surprised when God doesn't recognize who you are on Judgement Day.

My Church has a line of people waiting for food every week, starting at 6 AM, that goes out around the block. And it's just one church of hundreds like it in the area.

You are both young. Plenty of time to repent and start doing charity. Open your eyes to how badly inflation crushes the poor.

Brother... Appreciate the prayers... And I'm not unaware of the effect on inflation. I also am familiar with the plight of the poor and am not trying to minimize the fact that some people are suffering.
Yes there are food kitchens in inner city Houston, they are still busy, and will continue to be. Also many of those people have historically been drug users. My wife was a paramedic for 10 years, I've lived in working class areas ECT. So I do get it.

Assuming your description and IIMTs is accutate....We just don't have the same level of hurting where I am vs where you are, and that's s result of the economics of the state I suppose.

That said...
I think it's a little haughty for you to presume to know what someone is or isn't doing or giving.
I give very generously to charity and to my church with both time and money. We all have plenty to repent for, but I'm not sure I'm inclined to accept on face value your declaration that I'm deficient in my charity.

 

[FrancisK]

I will pray for you both, if you seriously don't see the massive hordes of poor around us today, don't be surprised when God doesn't recognize who you are on Judgement Day.

My Church has a line of people waiting for food every week, starting at 6 AM, that goes out around the block. And it's just one church of hundreds like it in the area.

You are both young. Plenty of time to repent and start doing charity. Open your eyes to how badly inflation crushes the poor.

I don't know why you're assuming I don't do charity, in fact I volunteer at a senior center and the local children's hospital. Fun fact, doing charity doesn't mean you're a better person most people I know in there doing it with me do it for vanity reasons. They're in there to make sure everyone else knows they are doing it.

I'll say it again and I'll say it with full confidence, anyone who isn't doing well is because of their own doing. They settled into their comfy little easy life and didn't strive for more thinking it would last forever. Sure there are outliers but for any young person I know who isn't doing well it is because of their own doing, I'll be happy to give you examples.

God isn't going to judge me because I worked my tail off and somebody else didn't, trust me I grew up poor as dirt and everything I ever tried failed the only reason I made it in life is because I never stopped pushing.

 

[TruckDriver9]

This is 100% true. I don't have any disdain for people who "make it" but I do understand that their success typically has much more to do with factors that are nearly impossible to control when you realize that there are thousands of people that art intelligent and all work hard. In this system, perhaps in most systems historically - and certainly with bad money systems like fiat - monetary "success" is vastly overrated or even a joke (look at sports stars, for example). You also point out the red pill of "self improvement" that the manosphere suggests will make people successful - which is nonsense. One should improve himself for virtue's sake and for a higher quality of living in general. If everyone improves though, the reality is what you said - the new best becomes way better, and really good objective men are commonly left behind due to many things, but mostly female hypergamy. That's just how it is.

Yes. And over time, things always change and never survive as they were.

Few bring this up, and it's a really good example. I hope it happens, in a sense.

At some point, guys like it_is_not_my_time just have to accept that things change, for better or worse. All we are saying is have some balance my friend - you're not dumb, you just keep focusing on the negative, which gets tiring and is useless. As I said, change your perspective - that you can control. Or change your username to what I just wrote, as that's more consistent with your posts.

I'm not happy about the direction this country is, inevitably, moving in; but I come to accept that I have no power over it.
I don't share @Get2choppaaa optimism - neither Trump nor anyone else will be able to reverse a century of failed fiscal and foreign policies, or decades of failed trade and immigration policies with just a snap of fingers. But he's got like 2 dozens of kids so I can't blame him for hoping for a better future for them.
And at the same time I don't subscribe to @It_Is_My_Time accelerationism worldview - I've got people to care for, and thing to lose. But I don't blame him either for having this kind of thoughts. We all have our own circumstances and commitments. Who knows, maybe if I haven't had the life that I have, I would go feral and run away to live in the woods.
So moving forward, I will appreciate if we get Trump back, and have 4 years of increased economic oportunities to take advantage of. But I don't expect him to turn this ship around - it's too late for that.

 

[It_Is_My_Time]

I'll say it again and I'll say it with full confidence, anyone who isn't doing well is because of their own doing. They settled into their comfy little easy life and didn't strive for more thinking it would last forever. Sure there are outliers but for any young person I know who isn't doing well it is because of their own doing, I'll be happy to give you examples.

God isn't going to judge me because I worked my tail off and somebody else didn't, trust me I grew up poor as dirt and everything I ever tried failed the only reason I made it in life is because I never stopped pushing.

This is simply isn't true. And I don't care if you believe it or not, I mean if things can get this bad economically and you still say this, then you obviously just don't care.

But 10's of millions of young men, who have to face this every single day, do care and they care deeply. So, as an older guy, I advise you to not say such silly things. You are only throwing fuel on the fire.

You should instead say "most people I know, who work hard, are still getting by. I don't know their full financial situation, I don't see their bank accounts. But I know things are very bad right now economically and the trend isn't good right now".

 

[Samseau]

I think it's a little haughty for you to presume to know what someone is or isn't doing or giving.

I don't know why you're assuming I don't do charity

Never made any assumptions of either of you, my brothers. I said,

"if you seriously don't see the massive hordes of poor around us today"

If is a conditional statement. I have no idea what your lives are like, nor am I asking yourselves to prove it to me. However, I cannot understand how anyone who does charity does not see the absolute avalanche of poor in America. I live in one of the richest places in the world, not just America, but the world, and there are tens of thousands of poor everywhere I look.

I seriously cannot understand how anyone who does charity can fail to see the massive hordes of poor in America. It is horrible, but only if you look. It's easy to keep one's face in their cellphone as the Lazarus' around them are dying left and right.

So I'm not making a dig at either of you guys specifically, but I'm completely baffled how you, or anyone for that matter, who does charity does not see the massive tidal waves of poor today. And yes, most of it is White.

As for drug addicts, they are in a class of their own, thousands of them as well, but I'm not even talking about them.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/more-more-americans-becoming-alices-180802069.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall

About 29% of US households are ALICE, while 13% are below the Federal Poverty Level, according to United For ALICE's calculations using data from the Census Bureau's American Community Survey and United Way's estimates for how much a family needs to get by.

Even the fake news is forced to admit how horrible things are today, and I'm sure they are understating it. The way the federal poverty level is calculated is nonsense, and the amount of people at the poverty level is much higher than stated.

Saying that these tens of millions of people just need to work harder or smarter is also ridiculous. If being wealthy was that easy then everyone would be wealthy. The fact of the matter is that the poverty is caused by usury, which is crushing America right now, and no amount of work can fix the slave system we live in.

For us who are well-off, we cannot take any credit - all credit goes to God for giving us good fortune and abundance, and sparing us from slavery that awaits anyone unlucky in this slave system we live in.

I know there are people who are dumb and waste their money, but 99% of humanity has always been this way. Most of the wealthiest people I know are complete retards. The reason for poverty has nothing to do with intelligence, but a malicious political system.

 

[It_Is_My_Time]

I'm not happy about the direction this country is, inevitably, moving in; but I come to accept that I have no power over it.
I don't share @Get2choppaaa optimism - neither Trump nor anyone else will be able to reverse a century of failed fiscal and foreign policies, or decades of failed trade and immigration policies with just a snap of fingers. But he's got like 2 dozens of kids so I can't blame him for hoping for a better future for them.
And at the same time I don't subscribe to @It_Is_My_Time accelerationism worldview - I've got people to care for, and thing to lose. But I don't blame him either for having this kind of thoughts. We all have our own circumstances and commitments. Who knows, maybe if I haven't had the life that I have, I would go feral and run away to live in the woods.
So moving forward, I will appreciate if we get Trump back, and have 4 years of increased economic oportunities to take advantage of. But I don't expect him to turn this ship around - it's too late for that.

I am not sure what "acceleration worldview" means? You mean that I support acceleration? I sort of do, because it will take acceleration to get more young men on board with doing what must be done. But whether I support it or not, it is simply going to happen. By every historical measure and wisdom passed down to us, we are beyond any redline.

The best Trump will be able to do is stabilize things, meaning, the acceleration is off for four years, but there will be no great improvement. There will be some uptick in the oil and maybe MIC fields, but also the unsustainable debt will increase and the immigration will flow in. There is no gain in US born employment from 2018 to now. The only growth in employment in that time is immigrants, and I don't see that changing under Trump. Being two of those years were under Trump.

 

[Samseau]

The next generation of men have nothing to lose, the older men, with things to lose are not going to fight. The men coming up are stranded on the beach and the boats were already burned.

So again, you are going to do nothing, because you "have too much to lose," which is just a cowardly way of avoiding conflict. This is why no one takes you seriously.

You have no actionable advice, you make excuses for doing nothing yourself, and then criticize others who try to do something while you aren't doing anything.

 

[It_Is_My_Time]

So again, you are going to do nothing, because you "have too much to lose," which is just a cowardly way of avoiding conflict. This is why no one takes you seriously.

You have no actionable advice, you make excuses for doing nothing yourself, and then criticize others who try to do something while you aren't doing anything.

I am going to go on the internet and get men to think differently. My goal is to destroy the "conservative" "pick yourself up by your bootstraps" nonsense world view. And it is working.

 

[FrancisK]

This is simply isn't true. And I don't care if you believe it or not, I mean if things can get this bad economically and you still say this, then you obviously just don't care.

But 10's of millions of young men, who have to face this every single day, do care and they care deeply. So, as an older guy, I advise you to not say such silly things. You are only throwing fuel on the fire.

You should instead say "most people I know, who work hard, are still getting by. I don't know their full financial situation, I don't see their bank accounts. But I know things are very bad right now economically and the trend isn't good right now".

No sorry it is true, what is true is that the easy path didn't work and most chose the easy path. Please don't tell me what I do or don't care about, I'm not saying things are all peachy in the world and the economy isn't all fake right now but there is a lot to be made out there taking advantage of that and no I don't mean nefarious things.

Again please stop speaking for others, you don't represent anyone but your disaster self. I'm not a kid buddy and what fire exactly? What your black hole of despair and self pity fire?

"Most people I know who work hard" are doing a lot better than just getting by. But everyone I know that took the easy path certainly is not.

That college degree where you just wanted a white collar easy fake life while partying for 4 years and racking up dumb debt, that job you've been working where you were just okay making enough to pay your bills and do nothing else, those women who had kids with deadbeat losers, minorities living off the government and all the video game playing potheads in between living in their parents basement.....yea they sure as heck are not doing well but anyone who had half a brain and the slightest amount of ambition has done pretty damn well the past decade. For some yea sure it's too late it just is what it is they missed the boat but if you're anywhere close to young and able bodied with a tiny bit of intelligence if you haven't found a way to get ahead you have nobody to blame but yourself. I have seen this first hand on both sides, I know young guys who are killing it because they worked their tails off and I know young guys who hate life and just complain all day that nobody has handed them anything.

 

[FrancisK]

I am going to go on the internet and get men to think differently. My goal is to destroy the "conservative" "pick yourself up by your bootstraps" nonsense world view. And it is working.

What's your advice exactly, give up and hate the world like me?

 

[It_Is_My_Time]

No sorry it is true, what is true is that the easy path didn't work and most chose the easy path. Please don't tell me what I do or don't care about, I'm not saying things are all peachy in the world and the economy isn't all fake right now but there is a lot to be made out there taking advantage of that and no I don't mean nefarious things.

Again please stop speaking for others, you don't represent anyone but your disaster self. I'm not a kid buddy and what fire exactly? What your black hole of despair and self pity fire?

"Most people I know who work hard" are doing a lot better than just getting by. But everyone I know that took the easy path certainly is not.

That college degree where you just wanted a white collar easy fake life while partying for 4 years and racking up dumb debt, that job you've been working where you were just okay making enough to pay your bills and do nothing else, those women who had kids with deadbeat losers, minorities living off the government and all the video game playing potheads in between living in their parents basement.....yea they sure as heck are not doing well but anyone who had half a brain and the slightest amount of ambition has done pretty damn well the past decade. For some yea sure it's too late it just is what it is they missed the boat but if you're anywhere close to young and able bodied with a tiny bit of intelligence if you haven't found a way to get ahead you have nobody to blame but yourself. I have seen this first hand on both sides, I know young guys who are killing it because they worked their tails off and I know young guys who hate life and just complain all day that nobody has handed them anything.

Most people are struggling and struggling greatly. Most everyone I know is struggling. And it isn't because these people took "the easy path" or made a bunch of bad decisions. It is because the economy is a dumpster fire and many innocent people are being crushed by it.

Trying to gaslight people and claiming everyone who actually works hard is doing good isn't a good look. It is both very incorrect and just a very evil thing to say.

And this 2002 "Conservative" talking point that "you shouldn't expect to just go to college and get a job and live a good life" is a big time evil. People should expect to live in a system where if they work hard and are productive in turn they can have a decent life. No one should have to expect to hustle and work endless hours just to have a decent life. And this is the mindset I am creating in young men, and it is spreading far and wide.

 

[It_Is_My_Time]

What's your advice exactly, give up and hate the world like me?

Save every penny, support your own people, and get ready for some real bad times by being prepared in every facet needed.

 

[magoo]

I am going to go on the internet and get men to think differently. My goal is to destroy the "conservative" "pick yourself up by your bootstraps" nonsense world view. And it is working.

No. That’s useless. What needs to be done is fundraising and normal people applying to positions of public leadership. This influence shit is the stupidest shit I’ve been hearing. Stop being the influencer and become the one who is influenced.

My kid plays in a sport team. First game they lost. Not because they sucked. But because the coach was shit. They didn’t knew the rules. What to do. Spoke with the president of the club. And I became assistant coach. They won all games. My goal wasn’t for them to be the best. But sure as hell he wasn’t going to be the bitch. The worse team. Everybody jokes about. Also they were uninvited by a team to a tournament because of how bad they sucked. When I read the message I said fuck this shit. When we played against that team. We bulldozed them. I made a special effort.
Coaching. The worse wasnt the kids. It was the parents. The parents are impossible to listen. They are so stupid.
Anyway they won all games. That season. I hated being coach.

After that I’ve organized a meeting with the president. And put all parents finding sponsors.
Problem is I think new parents are making corruption. They are overpricing stuff. But I cannot punch them. My kid would not be invited to parties anymore. I walked away. It’s not for me. This idea a small group is smarter and plays the rest no thanks.

I could have tried to influence. Right? Why?

When my kids go to college I will run for a small public office. Not for the people. People are stupid sheep. But for my kids.

College is about connections. People who are in a bad situation after studying college. It’s because they took shitty degrees in shitty colleges. There’s always this envy of blue collar. As if they are superior. They are not. If you go to a Ivy League your set for life. The college will pay you back. Big time.

 

[It_Is_My_Time]

No. That’s useless. What needs to be done is fundraising and normal people applying to positions of public leadership. This influence shit is the stupidest shit I’ve been hearing. Stop being the influencer and become the one who is influenced.

My kid plays in a sport team. First game they lost. Not because they sucked. But because the coach was shit. They didn’t knew the rules. What to do. Spoke with the president of the club. And I became assistant coach. They won all games. My goal wasn’t for them to be the best. But sure as hell he wasn’t going to be the bitch. The worse team. Everybody jokes. Also they were uninvited by a team to a tournament because of how bad they sucked. When I read the message I said fuck this shit. When we played against that team. We bulldozed them. I made a special effort.
Coaching. The worse wasnt the kids. It was the parents. The parents are impossible to listen. They are so stupid.
Anyway they won all games. That season. I hated being coach.

After that I’ve organized a meeting with the president. And put all parents finding sponsors.
Problem is I think new parents are making corruption. They are overpricing stuff. But I cannot punch them. My kid would not be invited to parties anymore. I walked away. It’s not for me. This idea a small group is smarter and plays the rest no thanks.

I could have tried to influence. Right? Why?

When my kids go to college I will run for a small public office. Not for the people. People are stupid sheep. But for my kids.

College is about connections. People who are in a bad situation after studying college. It’s because they took shitty degrees in shitty colleges. There’s always this envy of blue collar. As if they are superior. They are not. If you go to a Ivy League your set for life. The college will pay you back. Big time.

That is all being done as well, but these organizations need a larger pool of people who think differently and don't' just accept the low standard of living pushed by the "conservative" talking heads.

 

[magoo]

That is all being done as well, but these organizations need a larger pool of people who think differently and don't' just accept the low standard of living pushed by the "conservative" talking heads.

Stop making excuses. Apply for election. If your serious I will send you 100$.

 

[Wutang]

I am going to go on the internet and get men to think differently. My goal is to destroy the "conservative" "pick yourself up by your bootstraps" nonsense world view. And it is working.

I seriously doubt it's working. You claim to be receiving tons of PMs in support which I find hard to believe considering how much ire you consistently draw with all of your posts - not just from the other posters but even from the two admins that are most involved in looking over the contents of this forum. Even the guys who are posting about fake earth and fake everything topics which are far more controversial and contentious seem to get more support even if do also get tons of pushback while you seem to get consistent negative reactions no matter what. This isn't just my opinion. This is something that anyone else who isn't me can see just be reading all of the interactions here and also by remembering the sort of interactions you were having on the previous forum. If anything you are putting poison pills in the sort of ideas you are trying to promote and are actually driving people away. If there was some ideology out there I wanted to sabotage and I had (((power))) I would install you to be the spokesperson of that ideology. Again, it's not the ideas you promote you so much (hence why I'm not even taking the conversation towards those topics) but just poison fog you emit into every thread you take part in.

 

[It_Is_My_Time]

Stop making excuses. Apply for election. If your serious I will send you 100$.

Me running for office will change nothing. If I were to run for office and didn't repeat the GOP talking points, then they would cut funding and support the Democrat. This has already happened many times before.

 

[FrancisK]

Most people are struggling and struggling greatly. Most everyone I know is struggling. And it isn't because these people took "the easy path" or made a bunch of bad decisions. It is because the economy is a dumpster fire and many innocent people are being crushed by it.

Trying to gaslight people and claiming everyone who actually works hard is doing good isn't a good look. It is both very incorrect and just a very evil thing to say.

And this 2002 "Conservative" talking point that "you shouldn't expect to just go to college and get a job and live a good life" is a big time evil. People should expect to live in a system where if they work hard and are productive in turn they can have a decent life. No one should have to expect to hustle and work endless hours just to have a decent life. And this is the mindset I am creating in young men, and it is spreading far and wide.

Haha sorry to break to you buddy but racking up debt with 4 years of partying it up to a degree was the easy path, any crackhead could have done that. I have a degree it was a total waste of time and as soon as I realized that I moved on.