Bitcoin and Crypto Thread

A state attack will only weaken the state. Bitcoin is just a tool, a resource. Germany, and much of Europe, is de-industrializing because Davos Man is attacking fossil fuels. Does that affect any other world users of an abundant energy source? Australia exports all of their coal to China, and China gets to use nice cheap coal, (and has such cheap power that they had 1/2 of all Bitcoin mining.)
Is Bitcoin really a tool or resource, though? I argue back to my theoretical example of a single individual (or in this case, a single state) owning all of a certain asset. Let's say that China suddenly owned all the Bitcoin in the world. So what? Does the rest of the world just burst into tears and resign themselves as being economically hostage to China's Bitcoin reserve currency/asset? Or do they just shrug their shoulders and use some other currency for international trade and settlement, recognizing that Bitcoin itself has no more practical value than any other crypto blockchain?
As we've noted, we will see what BTC, its network, adoption and price/valuation do. It won't be long in my opinion, so all I'm waiting for is to see how scorpion responds to its continued ascent.
Well, there is no "continued ascent" for the moment, at least. It's been flat to down for months now. But I can assure you that regardless of whatever "ascent" Bitcoin may make, I will do just fine. But I genuinely hope that you can say the same if it's actually a drastic descent in the cards. It's never a good idea to have an exceptionally outsized allocation to any single asset, regardless of how fervently you believe in its growth potential.
 
Is Bitcoin really a tool or resource, though? I argue back to my theoretical example of a single individual (or in this case, a single state) owning all of a certain asset. Let's say that China suddenly owned all the Bitcoin in the world.
OK, great example, because this has already happened in Bitcoin history. At one time, Satoshi owned all the Bitcoin in existence. A year later maybe a few hundred people owned all Bitcoin. What was the price of BTC then? $0…people gave away thousands of btc to friends and through fountains. Until a large network develops, there is little value…if there is little value, it is cheap or free to spread around, which is what has happened and what is happening. First it was 10,000 BTC for 2 large pizzas. Now it’s $ .05M for a whole coin, still undervalued compared to its potential.

If the CCP owned all BTC, guess what the value is? Not much, because the network is less valuable.
So what? Does the rest of the world just burst into tears and resign themselves as being economically hostage to China's Bitcoin reserve currency/asset? Or do they just shrug their shoulders and use some other currency for international trade and settlement, recognizing that Bitcoin itself has no more practical value than any other crypto blockchain?
I can’t imagine a mechanism where something that trends towards decentralization would centralize. If it somehow happened, the price would drop to a point where it would resume decentralization. See above. This has already happened in bitcoins history.
 
If the CCP owned all BTC, guess what the value is? Not much, because the network is less valuable.
I agree that the network effect itself is Bitcoin's most powerful asset (it's only asset really - being that it's the only thing that separates Bitcoin from any number of near-technically identical shitcoins)
I can’t imagine a mechanism where something that trends towards decentralization would centralize. If it somehow happened, the price would drop to a point where it would resume decentralization. See above. This has already happened in bitcoins history.
What do you think will happen to the network as mining rewards continue to decrease and electricity costs increase? Past a certain point, will there be any incentive whatsoever for miners to maintain the backbone of the network and verify transactions? And is there any point at which it would become more profitable for miners to essentially sabotage the network or the protocol itself rather than to continue mining under the original framework? (This is a genuine question, as I've heard criticism focused on such a scenario, but don't quite understand the underlying mechanism by which a large pool of miners would attempt such an action, nor the precise situation which might incentivize them toward such a seemingly risky gamble).
 

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Lots of words when they could've just said Chads.
 
Nothing wrong with bitcoin though.
Like Blade Runner, you're missing the whole spiritual-existential point. There is entirely something wrong with BTC. Like all money, it is based on greed and envy and therefore anti-Christian. BTC is a satanic JQ gambling invention meant to separate a fool from his money. Great, you bought at 1K and now it's worth 60K. So what? Take the money and run. But no, you're still a 50-something year old man clinging to pride in order to see it to 100K. You can't eat money, you can only die with it in the bank. So choke on it, swallow that monetary instrument to your heart's content and continue to live in the delusion of a US dollar collapse, and that bitcoin can somehow save you from that. A real man would encourage all men to divest from all JQ insurance, lawfare, and financial scams (including BTC, NASDAQ, 401K), but a charlatan with a lot of skin in the game would continue to encourage young men to to go deeper into the world of computerized-Matrix evil. Why? Because misery loves company. Any "man" dreaming of 24-year-old Eastern European virgins marrying 50-year-old American bitcoin miners is a fool. Stay in America, invest in America, and work in America. Go into the trades, become a small business owner, and f*ck these guys promoting get rich quick schemes that do nothing but provide them something for doing nothing.

Bitcoin is gambling. Gambling is a sin and a vice as spelled out in The Bible:

“Those who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil."

Get. Out. Now.
 
I agree that the network effect itself is Bitcoin's most powerful asset (it's only asset really - being that it's the only thing that separates Bitcoin from any number of near-technically identical shitcoins)
The Turkish Lira is technically identical to the US dollar.
What do you think will happen to the network as mining rewards continue to decrease and electricity costs increase?
Are electricity costs actually increasing? Or, is it the currency that is losing value. What about priced in bitcoin?
Past a certain point, will there be any incentive whatsoever for miners to maintain the backbone of the network and verify transactions?
Once there is no block subsidy, miners will be rewarded with fees alone. If bitcoin becomes the dominant money, fees should be enough to provide incentive for mining. If fees are too low, then miners using more expensive electricity and less efficient miners will shut off, and the remaining miners will capture that share of the market, and become more profitable.
And is there any point at which it would become more profitable for miners to essentially sabotage the network or the protocol itself rather than to continue mining under the original framework? (This is a genuine question, as I've heard criticism focused on such a scenario, but don't quite understand the underlying mechanism by which a large pool of miners would attempt such an action, nor the precise situation which might incentivize them toward such a seemingly risky gamble).
Bitcoin rewards selfishness aka self-interest. People acting in their own self interest is the best way for society to operate smoothly. Mother Teresa was acting in her own self interest by helping others, because it gave her life fulfillment, purpose and meaning.

Miners can always choose to attack the network.
They can either
A) make lots of valuable Bitcoin by mining within the consensus rules, and securing the network, or
B) Attack the network, and if they succeed, they get lots of Bitcoin that now has less, or no value

So a rational actor would not choose to attack the network because they would just become poor. What about a government?
Let’s say China devotes all its resources to buying mining hardware. What happens to the price of the hardware? Supply and demand. Miners get 5x, 10x as expensive. China spends 5 years and $1 trillion buying miners, plugs them in and spends $500M a day in electricity to launch an attack. Hash rate doubles overnight. For the next 2 weeks until the difficulty adjustment, Blocks are coming every 5 minutes, and the Chinese are making $1 billion a day in subsidy and fees.
Again they have a choice:
A) follow the rules and secure the network, and make $billions in BTC or
B) attack the network, destroy the value of BTC, and lose 5 years worth of 100% GDP expended to do it, with basically nothing to show for it

if they choose option B, destroy it even if it requires suiciding the empire, bitcoin users might just decide to hardfork, use a different hashing algorithm, and neuter the chinese Miners.

The incentives of Bitcoin are to support it. Even if an irrational actor attacked, it is likely they would just impoverish themselves and not succeed anyway.
 
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“Love of money is the motive for all kinds of sin: murder, theft, deceit, and resentment. Money is used to enslave, which we call usury. By contrast, money is also a force for good. It enables charity, kindness, and expressions of love. It empowers, motivates, and rewards the creation of beneficial things. Money is the tool by which we can store up the fruits of our labor for rainier days. Money is vital, and present in almost everything we do.”


“One of the advantages of being made in the image of God is that we have the divinely-delegated authority to create useful things with our hands. Having this ability means we can turn chaos into order, which is an enormous responsibility. As G.K. Chesterton said, “A dead thing can go with the stream, but only a living thing can go against it.”We express this principle—the bearing of God’s image—primarily through our daily work and in voluntary exchanges. By trading with one another, a community can collectively work to produce more output than individuals could in isolation. By collaborating, we can create more through a shared sense of purpose, belonging, and community. This is what we call the anti-entropic principle.Money is the most easily tradable asset in any society. It is a primary tool for collaborative human action—a medium of exchange that has the potential to expand and deepen the nature of our work. A tool this critical to the flourishing of civilization is clearly a gift from God.

Excerpt From
Thank God for Bitcoin: The Creation, Corruption and Redemption of Money
 
“Money does not have to rule our lives. It doesn’t have to be an obsession, and it doesn’t have to be a source of pain in the world. Money can be received with thanksgiving and viewed as a good gift that serves us, not the other way around. Understand that all money is not created equal. Both moral and immoral money have existed throughout history. Once we understand the negative changes to our money, we can avoid the immoral incentives inherent to the unsound money that we have today. But before we can understand how today’s money has failed us, we must take a step back and understand what work is and its relationship to money.”

Excerpt From
Thank God for Bitcoin: The Creation, Corruption and Redemption of Money
 
Well, there is no "continued ascent" for the moment, at least. It's been flat to down for months now. But I can assure you that regardless of whatever "ascent" Bitcoin may make, I will do just fine. But I genuinely hope that you can say the same if it's actually a drastic descent in the cards. It's never a good idea to have an exceptionally outsized allocation to any single asset, regardless of how fervently you believe in its growth potential.
Months includes January, right? Come on now. Higher allocations = concentration. If you have that over diversification, your upside is higher. So, it depends on your goal. This is a sharp forum in many ways, and I would challenge anyone in their ability to assess risk, which is something I understand very, very well for many reasons. What the misunderstanding is here, and the point of our back and forth, is conviction or probability that BTC does X.
Past a certain point, will there be any incentive whatsoever for miners to maintain the backbone of the network and verify transactions?
Of course. Will there be an incentive to power crazy energy into "AI"? Will it be worth it? Same idea, except that AI will use 1000s of times the energy, so it's an easy answer.
Like all money, it is based on greed and envy and therefore anti-Christian.
That is incorrect.
Take the money and run.
It sounds like you're the greedy gambler. If we hold it because we believe in it, why would we just "trade it" and thus appear to have been "gambling"?
Bitcoin is gambling.
Incorrect again. Remember, Urkel, you don't understand it. So why do you insist on posting about it? We can of course tell you the answers to the questions you desire, but it seems like you just want to impress your feelings on us. I wonder, why?
 
Like Blade Runner, you're missing the whole spiritual-existential point. There is entirely something wrong with BTC. Like all money, it is based on greed and envy and therefore anti-Christian. BTC is a satanic JQ gambling invention meant to separate a fool from his money. Great, you bought at 1K and now it's worth 60K. So what? Take the money and run. But no, you're still a 50-something year old man clinging to pride in order to see it to 100K. You can't eat money, you can only die with it in the bank. So choke on it, swallow that monetary instrument to your heart's content and continue to live in the delusion of a US dollar collapse, and that bitcoin can somehow save you from that. A real man would encourage all men to divest from all JQ insurance, lawfare, and financial scams (including BTC, NASDAQ, 401K), but a charlatan with a lot of skin in the game would continue to encourage young men to to go deeper into the world of computerized-Matrix evil. Why? Because misery loves company. Any "man" dreaming of 24-year-old Eastern European virgins marrying 50-year-old American bitcoin miners is a fool. Stay in America, invest in America, and work in America. Go into the trades, become a small business owner, and f*ck these guys promoting get rich quick schemes that do nothing but provide them something for doing nothing.

Bitcoin is gambling. Gambling is a sin and a vice as spelled out in The Bible:

“Those who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil."

Get. Out. Now.
Im not interested in wealth or getting rich at all, I would actually like to own a horse and caridge some day to use as transport like the amish, I just like Bitcoin as a way of transfering money, to receive and do payments and to one day learn how to use it instead of a bank account, thats my goal with bitcoin, I like that its like your own mini bank with privacy, for example, I might move to another country some day and I might need to use bitcoin to receive payments and then I can withdraw those payments in the country Im living at and I can also send that money back home to friends or family without it going through a bank etc, private. I also dont like that the governments just print money out without working for it, thats criminal, you cant do that with bitcoin you cant print it out like the banks are doing now
 
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Bitcoin is anti-fragile. Attacks make it stronger and more resilient.

case in point:

The most technocratic regime in the world banned Bitcoin mining in 2021. Over half the world’s hash rate was in China. Hash rate plummeted by 50%. Price dropped 40%. 3 years later and hash rate is now 3x what it was before the China ban. Mining is much more widely disturbed globally, in the USA, Africa, and SA.
I would argue Bitcoin is stronger, more resilient, because of the China mining ban.

Any attack on Bitcoin that I can think of, strengthens Bitcoin, and weakens the attacker. Imagine the strategic blunder of losing half of the Bitcoin hash rate? It’s like the Chinese burning their merchant fleet all over again….50 years from now it will be in the history books.

A state attack will only weaken the state. Bitcoin is just a tool, a resource. Germany, and much of Europe, is de-industrializing because Davos Man is attacking fossil fuels. Does that affect any other world users of an abundant energy source? Australia exports all of their coal to China, and China gets to use nice cheap coal, (and has such cheap power that they had 1/2 of all Bitcoin mining.)

Trying to punch through a brick wall will not damage the wall, but will damage yourself.
Im concerned if all the countries team up together and try and "ban" it all at once like they teamed up together to do the lockdowns, even though they cant really do much but the very threat alone could make at least the majority of bitcoin uses to try and cash out what they have, the human factor, they do stuff like this to affect the stock market too with wars etc, dont get me wrong bitcoin is a great tool and im almost done hearing thay series you sent me I like it, but the prophesies from the saints and the church are there, they explain there will be a time where we wont be able to trade without getting the mark of the beast so I wouldnt encourage you to put all your hope in bitcoin of anything else, if this earth and universe that God Himself made which is a far superior and more complex system to bitcoin has pain and suffering in it I can guarantee that Bitcoin a human creation will also have pain and suffering in it.

Im going to use bitcoin dont worry I might send you some messages soon for advice I like the concept and what Im learning so far I think its a very important topic to a least try grasp and understant, I still have a few questions about it like who owns the ATM machines and who gets the transaction fees for those ATMs and who tops them up with cash and where do they get all that cash?
 
Countries can team up and be self destructive, but only for so long. Eventually, some will see the strategic advantage of having Bitcoin and dominate the countries that don’t. Just like countries with nuclear weapons today.

If you enjoyed the Saylor Series, I recommend reading Softwar by Jason P. Lowery.

If the US does not consider stockpiling strategic Bitcoin reserves, or at the very least encouraging Bitcoin adoption, the author believes the US could forfeit a strategically vital power projection technology lead to one of its greatest competitors and set itself back in global power dominance.

A ”softwar” protocol could theoretically utilize society’s internationally-dispersed, global electric power grid and existing internet infrastructure to empower computers to impose severe, physically prohibitive costs on other computers in, from, and through cyberspace. It could combine Tesla’s and Ford’s ideas together and serve as both a “softwar” protocol and a monetary network. There’s no logical reason to believe it couldn’t serve both functions simultaneously, considering how the development and expansion of all technologies need financing – especially defense industrial complexes.

IMG_1341.jpeg
 
Anyone interested in Softwar, you can find it on libgen.is or I can send it via Keet (it was freely available but it has been pulled presumably by the DoD.)
 
Well, there is no "continued ascent" for the moment, at least. It's been flat to down for months now. But I can assure you that regardless of whatever "ascent" Bitcoin may make, I will do just fine. But I genuinely hope that you can say the same if it's actually a drastic descent in the cards.
I think you and @Blade Runner can at least agree that we simply have to wait and see.

It's never a good idea to have an exceptionally outsized allocation to any single asset, regardless of how fervently you believe in its growth potential.
I knew that residential real estate was in high demand in my area, and I understood it quite well. When I closed on my "house hack" I had something like 96% of my net worth in it. It had to work, or I was bankrupt. At least I was young so I'd figure life out somehow anyway.

One of my best decisions ever. Roommate-tenants paid for 90% of the mortgage fairly quickly, so I was able to just stack away my cash. It gave me the confidence to change careers for the better, which has also really paid off.

Im concerned if all the countries team up together and try and "ban" it all at once like they teamed up together to do the lockdowns
This is a good point, but the US' ETF approval seems to have basically enshrined it. I think before that its future was uncertain, now it's solidified.


As for those saying it's a CIA psy-op, I met a woman once who was convinced that the NSA had a backdoor entrance to the SHA-256 encoding algorithm that bitcoin uses. I looked it up, and SHA-256 was, in fact, invented by the NSA. I've since used it at work and have no clue how anyone could create a backdoor solution to it. I think she was full of it, but also was clearly pretty knowledgeable around software.
 
As for those saying it's a CIA psy-op, I met a woman once who was convinced that the NSA had a backdoor entrance to the SHA-256 encoding algorithm that bitcoin uses. I looked it up, and SHA-256 was, in fact, invented by the NSA. I've since used it at work and have no clue how anyone could create a backdoor solution to it. I think she was full of it, but also was clearly pretty knowledgeable around software.
Yes, it's open source so it doesn't make any sense, beyond the further details. This kind of projection, especially at this point, is based on what I call the "State God complex" which is something that scorpion has to a degree. The idea is that "they" won't allow or can disallow X, Y or Z. Anyone who knows history knows that that is not the case, especially in disruption eras, where we are now.
 
Yes, it's open source so it doesn't make any sense, beyond the further details. This kind of projection, especially at this point, is based on what I call the "State God complex" which is something that scorpion has to a degree. The idea is that "they" won't allow or can disallow X, Y or Z. Anyone who knows history knows that that is not the case, especially in disruption eras, where we are now.
Okay like I said, I'm out and not "talking" to you because you are my JQ-BTC philosophical advisary... but still a hanging chad unless something even more ridiculous is said by you. "They'll" take your BTC and your electricity and your US dollar bank account at the blink of an eye. They can and will completely deny you of any and all "rights," anywhere, anytime. To say that BTC is immune to all state/government shenanigans is an outright fallacy.

Bitcoin is gambling... how you can say anything else is ludicrous. You put X-amount of dollars in and it could go up or down. You are therefore gambling. You could lose money, you could win money. The only way you could ever say BTC is not gambling is if you could only win money. That is not the case. So WTF are you talking about? You cannot guarantee on your life that if I put $100 in today that I' will 100% get $200 back tomorrow. So GTFO with this BTC is not gambling BS.

You, Blade Runner are addicted to gambling and therefore cannot be trusted, as no addict to any substance or monetary device can ever be trusted. But I suppose a jew gotta' jew what a jew gotta' jew.
 
Due to speaking intelligently on BTC, I'm a jew gambler? :LOL:

It is amusing to me that you are also a believer in the God State complex I referred to before. I notice a lot of similarities in those that get things wrong about BTC, and by proxy, me as well.

Of course, you can choose not to trust me, but there will be a price/opportunity cost to pay for that. The good thing is that we're going to see this opportunity cost very clearly and in relatively short time. As I've told scorpion, we will get to see how mature you guys are when what I see happening, is fulfilled.
 
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