Bitcoin and Crypto Thread

At risk of just being accused of being into Bitcoin only for the "sick gains," I have to say the range-bound price action over the past several months has been frustrating given that the fundamentals only seem to be getting better.

It's still August -- plenty of time to hit $100k in 2024!

Wen Lambo?? 💲🚀😁


I’m not sure what you’re asking?

Chart for btc looks extremely solid right now. And very similar to its chart from 4 years ago before its breakout

If you’re asking why it hasn’t happened already or when is it exactly going to happen?

Soon

Either way, you’re asking the wrong question. The only question that matters is “how high?”

For example do we go from ranging from 50k to 70k to ranging from 160 to 190k or from 85k to 95k?


How much effect does the current recession or economic contraction have on the impending bull run?

Here’s btc from 2020, and

IMG_5065.jpeg


And this is the past year

IMG_5064.png
 
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Bitcoin is the only choice. Governments may want a digital currency that they can print more of and continue to steal....but the reality is that Bitcoin is global. Keep reading the Bitcoin standard 😃

This has already been attempted. Someone wrote a great article about Auroracoin in iceland, but I need to find it.

Basically, a country would "airdrop" it's own cryptocurrency to its citizens. The smart ones sell the new state currency immediately for Bitcoin, and those that don't get rid of it are stuck with increasingly worthless state cryptocurrency. Bitcoin is global money - you don't need to cross a border or even have a forex acct to get it, it is borderless and permission-less. Easy to get rid of government dogshit and trade it for Bitcoin.

There won't be 100 useless government currencies being traded, there will be one money.

I posted a bounty on nostr so hopefully someone knows the article I want to find, it was a perfect demonstration of the game theory at play when it comes to bitcoin and competing government “crypto”
I get that bitcoin is the only money and global but I dont see governments accepting it as you said they cant print it or control it so im assuming they would come up with their own crypto? Do you think the governments of the world will accept bitcoin?

Im still reading the book and will continue reading it I have already learnt a lot so far, im suprised more people arent into bitcoin, Iv spoken to friends and customers of mine who are investors, accountants who actually do trading in stock market and a wealthy financial advisor and I was quite suprised that they didnt even know what bitcoin IS and how it works because Im a novice, a dummy really Im not as advanced as them so it really suprised me.
 
I get that bitcoin is the only money and global but I dont see governments accepting it as you said they cant print it or control it so im assuming they would come up with their own crypto? Do you think the governments of the world will accept bitcoin?
They won't have a choice, we've told you that for a long time now. They'll come up with their own slave crypto, sure, but it won't matter as their economies will all crater and all the productive people will go where wealth is welcomed.
and I was quite suprised that they didnt even know what bitcoin IS and how it works
Yes, we're still early. You seem like a well meaning and good hearted man. Go get it, keep stackin', etc. it will change your life.
 
It doesn't matter what governments want. The EU doesn't want to use fossil fuels...how is that working out for them?

The century of Fiat makes it look like governments can get what they want, but they can only defy gravity for so long. Physical reality catches up eventually.
 
They won't have a choice, we've told you that for a long time now. They'll come up with their own slave crypto, sure, but it won't matter as their economies will all crater and all the productive people will go where wealth is welcomed.

Yes, we're still early. You seem like a well meaning and good hearted man. Go get it, keep stackin', etc. it will change your life.
Im not an expert but one thing I know for sure is the nature of the government, this beast, bitcoin is not to their advantage its to our advantage the people, yeah sure you get some good guys come up now and then that come from God and you find countries like El Salvador accepting it but I just know there is going to be resistance from the government they wont take this lying down.

Thanks to Chance Vought he has been guiding me on my bitcoin education (and everyone on this thread) and has given me resources to go through and he even helped me get my first bitcoin which Im very grateful for.
 
It doesn't matter what governments want. The EU doesn't want to use fossil fuels...how is that working out for them?

The century of Fiat makes it look like governments can get what they want, but they can only defy gravity for so long. Physical reality catches up eventually.
Im happy that they cant get what they want
 

President Nayib Bukele recently extolled the merits of El Salvador’s rocky experiment with bitcoin, telling TIME that it has been “a resounding success” that ultimately allowed the Central American country to collect “nothing but benefits.”

In 2021, the country made bitcoin legal tender, becoming the first country in the world to do so. Bukele said that citizens could now conduct bitcoin transactions across the country – from McDonald’s to hotels – allowing them to experiment with the nascent technology. “The positive outcomes outweigh the negative,” he said, reflecting on the experiment three years on.

Still, Bukele acknowledged his disappointment that more of his countrymen haven't gotten behind bitcoin. “Bitcoin hasn't had the widespread adoption we hoped for,” he told TIME. “Many Salvadorans use it,” he said, not citing the fact that adoption rates are actually declining, with only 12% of citizens using it in the last year compared to 21% in 2022, according to one study.

”The positive aspect is that it is voluntary,” Bukele told TIME. “Those who have not used it have no obligation to use it,” Bukele added. “We have never forced anyone to adopt it. We offered it as an option, and those who chose to use it have benefited from the rise in bitcoin.”

Fewer than 1% of Salvadorans believe bitcoin has improved El Salvador's economy. While some citizens are using bitcoin to buy clothes, food, or electricity, the lack of trust or understanding in the technology, coupled with ongoing infrastructure and technical challenges, has condemned the cryptocurrency to a novelty in the country.

Still, Bukele, a prominent bitcoin maximalist, remains undeterred. He stated that the problems were “relatively minor,” and touted several benefits instead: “[Bitcoin] gave us branding, it brought us investments, it brought us tourism.”
 
I've enjoyed the back and forth, as anyone should, and you know that I mean no harm in my criticism, which I am resolved to in order to correct what I think is poor thinking or incorrect logic. However, we're going to see this unfold fairly quickly, as many things in the world also do. I think one final correction will happen here with the market (5-6%) and then we'll be off to the races as they lower rates, start QE again, rollover more debt, etc.
 
Keep in mind El Salvador is a very poor country its still up and coming, I also dont know if the entire population actually automatically understands Bitcoin yet, it can also be difficult for very low income countries to be doing small trades with bitcoin, when I follow my bitcoin chart on my phone its up and down various times throughout the day, can you imagine a guy sells some fruit and then an hour later the bitcoin goes down then he checks his account he can get disappointed because he is used to his old bank account that never changes it keeps the exact same amount throughout the day, If I think about my country Im sure many people will have the same dissapointment as we dont have s savings or long term culture its hand to mouth consume consume consume, from my understanding thats not what bitcoin is good for although it can also be used for that.

I do think in the long run bitcoin as a legal tender will benefit El Salvador it could also attract people who own bitcoin in foreign countries as I heard in an interview that even some Americans have moved to El Salvador and there are still many El Salvador people living abroad that are slowly returning to their country, like the guy said its not forced on anyone but the option to use it is available.
 
By the way, if you have dry powder and believe like I do that people are sleeping on the upcoming run, you can see what shakes out right now or pick up BTC proxies very cheap.
 

An interesting read, the adoption of bitcoin is rising in Africa, I like how banks and governments "banned" bitcoin in some of these countries but they had no power to stop it and it continues to grow.
 
I may be against the grain on these boards, but if governments actually balanced budgets, I wouldn't mind paying 20-25% tax.

Of course it isn't just income, it's:
- Federal income Tax
- State income tax
- FICA Taxes
- Employer-side FICA/Payroll taxes
- Property Tax
- Sales Tax
- Capital Gains Tax
- Not to mention taxes on gas, vehicles...etc.

The terrifying problem is that the US Gov't represents 38% of GDP which isn't the highest amongst developed countries(France is over 50%), we are spending ourselves into oblivion. The Gov't doesn't have a revenue problem, it has a spending problem.

Massive debt forces money printing, creating inflation. At least, that's how I see it.

Now we have Kamala Harris proposing taxing unrealized capital gains for those with $100 million or more. I'm not particularly sad for people with $100M having to pay more -- but once this happens, let's imagine the next democrat president adjusts it to $20-50 million and says "this is reasonable, these people are still downright rich".

Add in another decade of money printing/asset inflation, and now we are taxing the upper middle class on unrealized gains.
Do they plan to federally tax homes that also "go up in value with inflation"? So you get a double tax locally, ever escalating in most places (property tax), and a federal shit sandwich on top of it? Not many people realize that almost all of the overpayment for schools and education is based on this lie as well, in which local governments basically collateralize the power of taxing to overspend on buildings and teachers, many with criminal retirement packages/pensions.

By the way, one real foil that is theoretically possible for the BTC network would be fiscal responsibility by governments. When you think about that, and set a probability on it, in a world of fiat, it's funny to think that BTC goes away before it is massively increased in value. I just don't get why this is so hard to understand for most, or a lot, of people.
 
By the way, one real foil that is theoretically possible for the BTC network would be fiscal responsibility by governments.
Why should government fiscal responsibility (or irresponsibility) have any impact on the value of Bitcoin? If Bitcoin is truly the world's first and only real digital asset - the discovery of digital scarcity - then it should have some inherent value in and of itself, value that would be accurately measured and reflected in whatever currency it is priced in. In other words, Bitcoin's value should be independent of the performance of government fiat currencies and monetary policy. A barrel of oil still has approximately the same value regardless of what governments are doing with their currencies. And while the price of a barrel of oil can and will fluctuate based on inflation and market forces, it remains inherently valuable as a commodity. You, however, are essentially admitting that Bitcoin would be worthless and have no value if government fiat was responsibly managed. This argument implies that Bitcoin functions as a competitor currency to government issued fiat currencies, but this is transparently not true. Bitcoin already failed as a currency, which is why the whole "digital scarcity" asset argument was invented as a fallback to begin with. But as you yourself just admitted, Bitcoin has no actual value as a digital asset. It's simply purchased because people believe - for a variety of reasons - that its price will continue to appreciate. But there is no inherent value whatsoever like there is with other commodities/assets. It's literally just a fad that has already peaked.
 
Why should government fiscal responsibility (or irresponsibility) have any impact on the value of Bitcoin? If Bitcoin is truly the world's first and only real digital asset - the discovery of digital scarcity - then it should have some inherent value in and of itself, value that would be accurately measured and reflected in whatever currency it is priced in. In other words, Bitcoin's value should be independent of the performance of government fiat currencies and monetary policy. A barrel of oil still has approximately the same value regardless of what governments are doing with their currencies. And while the price of a barrel of oil can and will fluctuate based on inflation and market forces, it remains inherently valuable as a commodity. You, however, are essentially admitting that Bitcoin would be worthless and have no value if government fiat was responsibly managed. This argument implies that Bitcoin functions as a competitor currency to government issued fiat currencies, but this is transparently not true. Bitcoin already failed as a currency, which is why the whole "digital scarcity" asset argument was invented as a fallback to begin with. But as you yourself just admitted, Bitcoin has no actual value as a digital asset. It's simply purchased because people believe - for a variety of reasons - that its price will continue to appreciate. But there is no inherent value whatsoever like there is with other commodities/assets. It's literally just a fad that has already peaked.
You make so many strong arguments. The only thing I can't grapple with is the certainty in your conclusions.

How do you know it has peaked?
 
You, however, are essentially admitting that Bitcoin would be worthless and have no value if government fiat was responsibly managed.
I didn't do anything of the sort. You frequently state things that others don't say and/or make conclusions that aren't in real life, or in an argument, for that matter.

Fiscal (ir)responsibility is the very motivation for the discovery of BTC, the solving of the double spend problem, the invention of a network in which trust is not required, nor is permission. That was the failure of gold as monetary instrument for the modern, global age.

As a result, since we have finite lifetimes and I've been making particular claims (which I don't and won't back down from), the foil would be the adoption time. And of course, the reason people will increasingly see BTC as better money is because fiat will continue to debase and it will be clearer by the day that this is the case, though others (like you) don't want to see it, think about it, etc. You'll have no choice but to keep getting bludgeoned by the central powers, their abuse, and their attempts at stealing from you and enslaving you.

You still don't understand BTC. But beyond that, you don't even make arguments in good faith. All value is subjective. If you discover a way around oil with sunlight powering batteries and technology that can keep that energy, all of a sudden oil becomes relatively worthless. My friend, you lack imagination, since that example is a proof. It's "inherent" value will go to zero necessarily in such a situation.

This has already happened for many things in the history of the world, and we've told you all about them. That's why I find it weird. But it doesn't matter, because what's going to happen is going to happen, and neither you nor I can do anything about it. We, and others, will look back and laugh at this exchange, though I'm sad to say that you'll deny it happened or ever "mattered". That's just common for humans, unfortunately.
The only thing I can't grapple with is the certainty in your conclusions.
This is what always happens with innovation and disruption. It's like clockwork, and it's funny that he can't see it, but like Krugman and the internet, and his opinions on BTC, Scorpion's takes will be high comedy over time. They won't allow themselves to see what is apparent to people who can think clearly, have curiosity, use imagination, and see the paths forward that will necessarily happen. The US Debt clock is skyrocketing up, which is why BTC not continuing to be more valuable is just theoretical. Let me just make it easy for you, as I said: it will happen, and there's nothing Scorpion can do or say to change that reality. Human nature would have to change overnight for that to happen. Imagine betting on that?!
 
And of course, the reason people will increasingly see BTC as better money is because fiat will continue to debase and it will be clearer by the day that this is the case, though others (like you) don't want to see it, think about it, etc. You'll have no choice but to keep getting bludgeoned by the central powers, their abuse, and their attempts at stealing from you and enslaving you.
Bitcoin is not money. Bitcoin is not a currency. Bitcoin is a speculative digital asset with no underlying intrinsic value, and its price is driven exclusively by popularity and hype.

You seem terribly confused about what Bitcoin even is because you continue referring to it as a functional money/currency while also promoting it as a digital asset. But by definition it cannot function as both, just as Sumo wrestlers cannot function as competitive marathon runners. The classifications in both cases are mutually exclusive, but you continually muddy the waters by attributing Bitcoin the virtues of both a currency and an asset, while admitting the weaknesses of neither. I would be tempted to call you dishonest for doing so, but by now I can see that you're honestly just delusional and have succumbed to a form of self-brainwashing by consuming so much nonsensical Bitcoin propaganda. I just hope others will avoid the same fate.
 
You make so many strong arguments. The only thing I can't grapple with is the certainty in your conclusions.

How do you know it has peaked?
No one knows anything for certain about the future, all we can do is speculate and reason based on what we know about the past. And in my view, Bitcoin is just the latest in a long line of financial fads and schemes that have been around for as long as money itself. It's simply a new version dressed up for the 21st century. But the appeal remains the same: the desire to accumulate vast wealth while exerting little or no actual effort. These schemes always flatter the mark's ego by assuring him that he is very smart and clever by investing his money, and that others who miss out on the opportunity are stupid and will certainly regret it.

Go read Ecclesiastes. There is nothing new under the sun. Bitcoin is not a revolutionary technology that will somehow free mankind and usher in a golden age. It's basically just a decentralized Ponzi scheme in which people try to pump their bags (what Blade Runner is doing by mentioning Bitcoin in almost every post) before eventually dumping them on another mark.

But specifically in regard to why it's already peaked: everyone already knows about Bitcoin and the vast majority of people have no interest in buying it. This is rational since Bitcoin literally has zero practical application and is quite cumbersome and risky for the average person to own and use. There simply aren't enough new buyers to generate anywhere near the returns Bitcoin saw in its early years, and as the reality of that price stagnation begins to set in, more and more HODLers will begin cashing out their bags. The only reason to own Bitcoin in the first place is to hold an appreciating asset, and if there is no significant price appreciation people will begin to lose interest and speculate on other assets instead. And since Bitcoin's value is entirely a function of its popularity, once the preference cascade begins and it becomes obvious that Bitcoin is being abandoned, its price could easily crater to near zero with frightening rapidity.
 
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