Bitcoin and Crypto Thread

I almost think the current dips will continue until Trump takes office on January 20. Alts are still remain at bear market prices
 
Speculating on volatile financial assets, whether they be individual stocks, options, shitcoins or Bitcoin is not a good way to create wealth. That's just gambling. If you want to create wealth, you need to apply your intelligence (which you clearly have) to solving problems that other people will pay you to help them with. You do this either by selling your skills and knowledge to your employer, or you own a business and sell your skills directly to customers.

This idea that everyone can just get wealthy by buying Bitcoin or other cryptos is an extremely toxic and self-sabotaging mindset. You want to be wealthy? Get to work and make yourself useful to someone else. If you really want to take some risk in search of an outsized reward, don't bet on Bitcoin, bet on yourself and start a business.
Inflation and taxes have robbed the average person blind. Unless you have an exceptionally high earning job (heart surgeon, Google employee, etc) working for a living no longer gets you very far. It worked for the boomers but it no longer works well. Job security is poor and real wages have been shrinking for decades when measured properly.

As for starting your own business that is an activity that has a high failure rate but the difference between that and speculation is that with a business even when you win the results tend to be slow. If you want to build a successful accounting practice or landscaping business, etc that generates substantial profits expect it to take 10 - 15 years of hard work. When you are already in your 30s who wants to then commit to another 10 - 15 years of grinding when you can get results much faster through risk taking in financial markets.

In this day and age unless you want to work until age 65 (I cannot imagine anything worse) then in general (yes there are obviously some exceptions) you need to be taking risk in financial markets e.g. owning multiple rental properties, buying individual stocks, trading options, crypto's, etc. People in their teens, 20s and 30s have a very different mentality to boomers. They no longer care about the traditional career path (at least not the ones who have a clue what is going on in the world) and have turned their attention to other endeavors.

You are basically giving outdated boomer advice that worked 30 years ago but is no longer relevant to today's world.
 
Unless you have an exceptionally high earning job (heart surgeon, Google employee, etc) working for a living no longer gets you very far. It worked for the boomers but it no longer works well. Job security is poor and real wages have been shrinking for decades when measured properly.
You are clearly intelligent enough to learn a skill or operate a business that will earn you well into the six figures. It's just a matter of picking a direction, cultivating the right mindset/work ethic and applying yourself.
If you want to build a successful accounting practice or landscaping business, etc that generates substantial profits expect it to take 10 - 15 years of hard work.
Heaven forbid! Hard work??
When you are already in your 30s who wants to then commit to another 10 - 15 years of grinding when you can get results much faster through risk taking in financial markets.

In this day and age unless you want to work until age 65 (I cannot imagine anything worse) then in general (yes there are obviously some exceptions) you need to be taking risk in financial markets e.g. owning multiple rental properties, buying individual stocks, trading options, crypto's, etc.
Have you ever been eating out at a restaurant and seen some schlubby-looking guy in his late 40s or 50s waiting tables? You ever wonder why he ended up there instead of driving around in a Lambo living the high life? If all he had to do was take risk by making big trades, why isn't everyone wealthy? The reality is that for every 40 year-old, Lambo-driving successful trader with a smoking hot 21 year-old girlfriend, there are a hundred 40 year-old schlubs who are flat-broke, waiting tables or driving a truck because they blew all their money gambling. And yes, trading crypto and options is just gambling. There is nothing more sophisticated about it than betting on sports or playing blackjack.
People in their teens, 20s and 30s have a very different mentality to boomers. They no longer care about the traditional career path (at least not the ones who have a clue what is going on in the world) and have turned their attention to other endeavors.

You are basically giving outdated boomer advice that worked 30 years ago but is no longer relevant to today's world.
This is a very unfair characterization. I'm hardly telling you to, "Just walk into the manager's office, look him in the eye and give him a firm handshake and ask for a job!" and saying that you'll be running the place ten years later. The advice I'm giving you is timeless: that there is ultimately no short cut to wealth, and anyone telling you otherwise is misleading you, either out of their own delusion or a desire to fleece you of your money. Building wealth usually doesn't happen by chance, but occurs at the intersection of several factors. The more of those factors you can bring to bear, the more likely you are to end up wealthy/successful. Some of those factors are:

  • Intelligence
  • Discipline
  • Risk-taking
  • Hard work
  • Grit
  • Growth mindset
  • A strong network of contacts
One of the best pieces of advice I would give a young guy is to run toward hard work (and difficult things in general) instead of away from them. Running away from hard work is what women and children do. It's also what weak and unsuccessful men do. Men are defined by the work they do and the value they bring to the world. Seek out opportunities to apply your talents and abilities and don't be afraid of working hard. You will reap the rewards much more reliably doing that than by hoping for a longshot crypto trading payday.
 
I can't really think of a time where "working for a living" wasn't a thing for the mass majority of people. It's not just a boomer thing it's a fact of life thing. There's something very Jewish about telling someone not to work but instead to make his money from owning things whether it means being a landlord, speculating in financial markets, or owning parts of a company without participating in the work the company does.
 
I can't really think of a time where "working for a living" wasn't a thing for the mass majority of people. It's not just a boomer thing it's a fact of life thing. There's something very Jewish about telling someone not to work but instead to make his money from owning things whether it means being a landlord, speculating in financial markets, or owning parts of a company without participating in the work the company does.

That’s been the problem since 1913, and even before that. There is a banking nobility class that can print money that everyone else must labor for. If you want to be financially secure in the current world of fiat, you must own assets.

If you own assets, you are a secondary or tertiary beneficiary of the wealth being stolen by banks that get to create fiat money for no cost. A tiny bit of the wealth stolen from workers (who are busy contributing to society, in order to pay rent on money that a bank created out of thin air), is transferred to you as asset prices increase.

If you borrow $1 million to buy 5 rental properties, the bank just diluted the money supply by $1 million, you get the benefits of owning real property and collecting 5 rents, and the working stiffs are now paying $12 for a five guys hamburger.

If you worked your whole life for $1 million, by the time you saved enough, you couldn’t even buy 1 rental property and you were effectively subsidizing the people who own assets to borrow more to buy even more assets.
 
That’s been the problem since 1913, and even before that. There is a banking nobility class that can print money that everyone else must labor for. If you want to be financially secure in the current world of fiat, you must own assets.

If you own assets, you are a secondary or tertiary beneficiary of the wealth being stolen by banks that get to create fiat money for no cost. A tiny bit of the wealth stolen from workers (who are busy contributing to society, in order to pay rent on money that a bank created out of thin air), is transferred to you as asset prices increase.

If you borrow $1 million to buy 5 rental properties, the bank just diluted the money supply by $1 million, you get the benefits of owning real property and collecting 5 rents, and the working stiffs are now paying $12 for a five guys hamburger.

If you worked your whole life for $1 million, by the time you saved enough, you couldn’t even buy 1 rental property and you were effectively subsidizing the people who own assets to borrow more to buy even more assets.
I just witnessed someone work and save their entire life, when they got their life savings paid out it was taxed (even though they already paid tax while working and saving it), they wanted the money paid out in a lumpsum so they had to pay a "penalty" fee to get their own money, then they wanted to transfer that money to another bank account and a huge transfer fee was charged.

Really heart breaking to see.
 
I hope you all backed up the truck like my boy Tom Lee told you!


eminem-guesswhosback.gif
 
You are basically giving outdated boomer advice that worked 30 years ago but is no longer relevant to today's world.
Regardless of how anyone feels about this, it's the accurate assessment.

The world runs on incentives, which is the basis and the major lesson of this thread & BTC, in actuality.
 
That’s been the problem since 1913, and even before that. There is a banking nobility class that can print money that everyone else must labor for. If you want to be financially secure in the current world of fiat, you must own assets.

If you own assets, you are a secondary or tertiary beneficiary of the wealth being stolen by banks that get to create fiat money for no cost. A tiny bit of the wealth stolen from workers (who are busy contributing to society, in order to pay rent on money that a bank created out of thin air), is transferred to you as asset prices increase.

If you borrow $1 million to buy 5 rental properties, the bank just diluted the money supply by $1 million, you get the benefits of owning real property and collecting 5 rents, and the working stiffs are now paying $12 for a five guys hamburger.

If you worked your whole life for $1 million, by the time you saved enough, you couldn’t even buy 1 rental property and you were effectively subsidizing the people who own assets to borrow more to buy even more assets.
This pretty much sums up my whole point nicely.
 
You are clearly intelligent enough to learn a skill or operate a business that will earn you well into the six figures. It's just a matter of picking a direction, cultivating the right mindset/work ethic and applying yourself.
The money I made over time from picking individual stocks and from cryptos outpaced the money I have earned from working for a living and with far less effort. I now have sufficient capital that I expect over a full economic cycle that my investments will average 6 figure gains annually almost without me lifting a figure.
 
That’s been the problem since 1913, and even before that. There is a banking nobility class that can print money that everyone else must labor for. If you want to be financially secure in the current world of fiat, you must own assets.

If you own assets, you are a secondary or tertiary beneficiary of the wealth being stolen by banks that get to create fiat money for no cost. A tiny bit of the wealth stolen from workers (who are busy contributing to society, in order to pay rent on money that a bank created out of thin air), is transferred to you as asset prices increase.

If you borrow $1 million to buy 5 rental properties, the bank just diluted the money supply by $1 million, you get the benefits of owning real property and collecting 5 rents, and the working stiffs are now paying $12 for a five guys hamburger.

If you worked your whole life for $1 million, by the time you saved enough, you couldn’t even buy 1 rental property and you were effectively subsidizing the people who own assets to borrow more to buy even more assets.
This is not exactly true. The economy is so broken you can print money and no inflation will come of it. Only with corona and wars we had inflation. But before there were negative interests. And I think in some countries. It´s happening again. There´s no growth due to regulations. The bankers break the economy through politicians enacting retarded regulations and afterwards can print money without inflation. Bailing out the companies they want and letting drown the ones they dont.

Banks and tax department are leeches. And they work in tandem. Banks are really cheap in US. If it weren´t for my kids. I would invest in one. We could buy a bank. Or at least have a major share in one. It would cost probably 30-50k/each. A small enough share it wouldnt have to pass by the regulator. But large enough to have insider access. This is one of the projects I have in my drawer. Sooner or later. When my kids reach 18.

How are people investing in BTC any different? It´s all about making a buck out of thin air. It´s rentier classes. And a very poor strategy to invest all in crypto. High growth speculative strategy eventually fall out.

Health care is free for the poor. Because it´s paid by the rich. There are free lunches. Who are paid by someone else. The person who is eating the lunch doesnt have to pay for it. Its 100% free for this person. The same is applied to health. US has a trillion budget. One of the richest countries in the world. And you cant have free health care because insurance companies want to make money?

You should have a free health system if not for anything else to create competition to private health insurance companies. In Europe it´s dual. Public and private. And also a third called social (church). And anytime the public is attacked I know it´s the private wanting to take clients from them.

Tatcher destroyed UK health system.

We have private insurance. But if my kids get really sick they are going to the public system cause no way I´m letting a corrupt insurance private doctor take care of them. They go to private if it´s small things. And we dont want to wait in line. Just to get a prescription. If it´s something serious we are waiting 5/6 hours for them to be checked out by a public doctor. My kids were all born in public system. And if there´s real problems with the birth babies are transferred from private to public. Even if you have family or friends it´s not as professional. We only ask referrals from family or friends.

Public health systems are paid by taxes. Not some extra to employers. US has a trillion budget. And no money for health?

European public health system are the best in the world. Always ranked in the top 10 in any metric.

What we are seeing now is with globalization some foreigners are taking advantage. And measures are taking place.
 
Last edited:
This is not exactly true. The economy is so broken you can print money and no inflation will come of it. Only with corona and wars we had inflation. But before there were negative interests. And I think in some countries. It´s happening again. There´s no growth due to regulations. The bankers break the economy through politicians enacting retarded regulations and afterwards can print money without inflation. Bailing out the companies they want and letting drown the ones they dont.
That is completely absurd. Don't believe the government lies about MMT and money printing not causing inflation. That is the entire reason for doing it: transferring wealth from people who own the money, to the people that print the money.
Banks and tax department are leeches. And they work in tandem. Banks are really cheap in US. If it weren´t for my kids. I would invest in one. We could buy a bank. Or at least have a major share in one. It would cost probably 30-50k/each. A small enough share it wouldnt have to pass by the regulator. But large enough to have insider access. This is one of the projects I have in my drawer. Sooner or later. When my kids reach 18.

How are people investing in BTC any different? It´s all about making a buck out of thin air. It´s rentier classes. And a very poor strategy to invest all in crypto. High growth speculative strategy eventually fall out.
People buying Bitcoin are not stealing from anyone. In Bitcoin, EVERYONE MUST FOLLOW THE RULES. There is not a select class of people that can break the rules (counterfeiting), at the expense of everyone else. Bitcoin does not make a buck out of thin air, any more than a bar of gold does. Owning a bar of gold does not steal from or in any way extract rent from another person.
Health care is free for the poor. Because it´s paid by the rich. There are free lunches. Who are paid by someone else. The person who is eating the lunch doesnt have to pay for it. Its 100% free for this person. The same is applied to health. US has a trillion budget. One of the richest countries in the world. And you cant have free health care because insurance companies want to make money?
Thou shalt not steal. An armed criminal (government) that steals from a rich person and gives to a poor person is still a thief. Our broken insurance industry has everything to do with government - "regulate us harder" is what google, open-ai, insurance companies, telecom providers etc. use to create a bureaucratic moat around their businesses so that more nimble upstarts can never rise to challenge them.
You should have a free health system if not for anything else to create competition to private health insurance companies. In Europe it´s dual. Public and private. And also a third called social (church). And anytime the public is attacked I know it´s the private wanting to take clients from them.
Everything the government has, it has stolen. So just steal some more, add more government and things will be better? I doubt it.
Tatcher destroyed UK health system.

We have private insurance. But if my kids get really sick they are going to the public system cause no way I´m letting a corrupt insurance private doctor take care of them. They go to private if it´s small things. And we dont want to wait in line. Just to get a prescription. If it´s something serious we are waiting 5/6 hours for them to be checked out by a public doctor. My kids were all born in public system. And if there´s real problems with the birth babies are transferred from private to public. Even if you have family or friends it´s not as professional. We only ask referrals from family or friends.

Public health systems are paid by taxes. Not some extra to employers. US has a trillion budget. And no money for health?
Nah its about 4 Trillion. 1 Trillion on military, 3 on welfare.
European public health system are the best in the world. Always ranked in the top 10 in any metric.

What we are seeing now is with globalization some foreigners are taking advantage. And measures are taking place.
Very sad what's happening to Europe. The only way back would be an extremely aggressive government action like Bukele did in El Salvador. Even then, the muslims will probably just get more violent.
 
The money I made over time from picking individual stocks and from cryptos outpaced the money I have earned from working for a living and with far less effort. I now have sufficient capital that I expect over a full economic cycle that my investments will average 6 figure gains annually almost without me lifting a figure.
You said before that you were chasing wealth. Now you're saying that you already have six-figures of passive investment income, which would imply that you're already wealthy. Regardless, if you've had success speculating and know the risks then I will simply wish you luck and hope it works out for you.
 
You said before that you were chasing wealth. Now you're saying that you already have six-figures of passive investment income, which would imply that you're already wealthy. Regardless, if you've had success speculating and know the risks then I will simply wish you luck and hope it works out for you.
I did not say passive income I said gains as in capital gains which I expect to average 6 figures annually over time and it has already been at that level in recent years. I would not say getting a 6 figure return is necessarily wealthy. For example somebody who has $800,000 of investments and compounds it at 12.5% per annum is earning a 6 figure return annually. Are they wealthy, I would say no but I guess wealth is really in the eye of the beholder.

They aren't wealthy in my view because they would have to leave a portion of the capital gain or income to keep compounding to keep up with inflation otherwise their real capital goes down over time. So for example if you have $800,000 in capital and its generating $100,000 of capital gains and or income you would only be able to cash out around $50,000 of it, the other $50,000 would have to be reinvested just so your capital maintains its value against inflation.

I would say in this day and age you really need at least $2 million dollars in capital to be wealthy due to the crippling effect of taxes and inflation.
 
And by the way I think being a rentier is the way to thrive in todays economy which is based on rent seeking.

Property as explained by people like Henry George is economic rent and we all know how profitable owning the right properties is over time. Plenty of real estate millionaires. In this day and age stocks are based on economic rent to.

In this day and age the stock market has also become a rent seekers paradise. The biggest companies in the S&P 500 rig the system in their favour by bribing the politicians to do their bidding resulting in trade rules (tarrifs, etc), tax and regulatory regimes which rig the playing field in their favour. It almost getting to the point of state sponsored facism. Aside from this as pointed out by people like Yannis Varafoukis who wrote books on the subject the big tech companies are all rent seekers in effect they are virtual landlords. Business who use the Amazon platform are in effect paying rent to Amazon and advertisers are paying economic rent to the monopoly of google in the form of advertising fees.

I disagree with Chance Vought and think it could be argued that Bitcoin is a form of economic rent. The Australian land economist Phillip J. Anderson in an interview said "Bitcoin is pure rent".

Like land Bitcoin is also a scarce asset with a fixed supply. Landowners extract economic rent through the system via wage earners who are renting and paying taxes which then gets used on public infrastructure which then boosts land prices. Bitcoin will soon be extracting economic rent. Many wealthy people and large instituitons loaded up on Bitcoin elected pro Bitcoin politicans and have lobbied to push governments into buying Bitcoin with taxpayer money. Also the Larry Finks of the world probably loaded up on Bitcoin in their personal accounts and then recomend their clients to have an official 2% Bitcoin allocation. Money from forced pension savings then gets allocated according to the advice of BlackRock and soon every person with a pension plan will involuntarily own Bitcoin often without even knowing it.

All of this will then pump their Bitcoin bags. The Bitcoin price will moon. It will happen.

Also you could argue the fees charged by Bitcoin miners to process transactions is a form of economic rent similar to tool booths.

But fiat is also a rent seeking system and far worse then Bitcoin. As imperfect as Bitcoin is and it still has a rent seeking element it is 100x less parasitical then fiat. You cannot print Bitcoin and theoretically anyone can mine it. Also the transparency of the blockchain means its harder to run an extreme fractional reserve Bitcoin system like there is with fiat.

In summary the most profitable investments in the modern economy are all about rent seeking and I would rather be collecting economic rent than be paying it. Eat or be eaten. If you cannot beat them join them.
 
Bitcoin is not rent seeking - rent seeking is just being a middle man that extracts economic value without providing any.

Miners provide economic value by securing the network from bad actors. The economic cost of providing the service is what creates the economic cost to attack it.

Bitcoin owners do not extract wealth from the working class; they have simply escaped the fiat system that extracts it from fiat holders. If a few cows escape the farm, the remaining cows will get milked more - but that is not the fault of the ones that escaped. Everyone has the option to escape - but sitting there doing the same thing hoping to be saved is not going to work.
 
Back
Top