Bitcoin and Crypto Thread

chance vought said:
Telling men to avoid Bitcoin has been bad advice. Everyone who listened to you is now worse off, financially, and also less free.
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Now you've officially jumped the btc shark. This is a crazy statement detached from reality. Nobody is "listening" to anyone. Men here have free will and agency and any decisions they have made regarding bitcoin (or anything else for that matter) are 100% their own responsibility. There are no victims in our midst. In addition, you are emotionally shooting from the hip with such hubris and have no way of proving such a bold claim. Complete bullshit. Methinks thoust doth protest too much. Such defensive rancor, further solidifying your poor takes on money and bitcoin.

From my perspective the economic sky is not falling in the USA and the future is bright. For most Americans bitcoin will play no role in their future economic lives and they will continue to thrive without it. I have by choice spent approximately 7 years of my life living in a car and/or camping in the rough and have built up a skill set that requires very little in the way of material possessions to live comfortably. Having no money (much less any bitcoin) does not scare me, I would rather live naked in the woods with nothing but my health than spend more years of my life playing the endless jew game of "chase the shekel."

Bitcoin, like all other "currencies" are dominated by world jewry and the neurotic jewish mindset. You speak of "freedom," but you sound like a man in chains.

Get. Out. Now.
 
PurpleUrkel said:
."

Bitcoin, like all other "currencies" are dominated by world jewry and the neurotic jewish mindset. You speak of "freedom," but you sound like a man in chains.

Get. Out. Now.
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Except it’s not. The people that bought Bitcoin early are not your conventional old world billionaires , the true believers that Bitcoin will eventually replace fiat .

Yes some of them already had money and just using it as another investment, someone like Musk but jews do not actually control crypto yet.
 
chance vought said:
They take a bath in FIAT...but bitcoin per share doesn't change. Thinking of MSTR priced in terms of NAV, is an incorrect framing. What is Microsoft stock price to NAV? 30 times? 3x NAV is crazy low risk compared to betting on NVDA or MSFT that 95% of the stock price is forward expectations that they will continue to have radical breakthroughs and continue growing.

TLDR: MSTR, because 95% of its assets are BTC, has the most volatility of almost any stock. Issuing the convertible bonds is a bridge to traditional finance, especially the bond market, which has been saddled with artificially low interest rates for 30 years. Due to government and non-government regulations, many of the funds that are buying these bonds can only buy bonds, which previously were underperforming in real terms (7-15% inflation, 5% yield even on junk bonds). The bonds are basically 100% of bitcoin upside, and 0% downside...you can't lose, and the demand for these is only going to increase. Even in a bitcoin bear market, the bonds are dated like 5+ years out - they will still sell.

As long as the Fed keeps interest rates artificially low (below the inflation rate) which THEY HAVE TO, until currency collapses, I think MSTR is the only company that can do what they are doing. Sure Apple or MSFT could buy bitcoin, but it would be such a small percentage of their business, they would not have the wild volatility that MSTR has - MSTR is the only way to do this now, he has a 4 year head start, and 400k BTC. Yes, I think its more risky than just holding BTC, but I have strong conviction that bitcoin will go up forever, and therefore MSTR has a good chance of continuing to be a bridge from the huge pools of assets stuck and bleeding out in traditional finance, to bitcoin. I want to own part of that because right now it is the highest performing stock in terms of bitcoin per share than anything else.

I measure my wealth in bitcoin, and I want to continue to have more bitcoin every year - I wouldn't risk my real bitcoin, but my ETF bitcoin (not even redeemable for real bitcoin, yet) I figured why not. If bitcoin breaks, and the world gets worse, governments are coming for retirement accounts and its gone anyway. I had about 1k shares of MSTR from when it was cheap, and I bought more when it was $400, for every ETF "bitcoin" I sold, I'm only getting 0.4 BTC in MSTR, but if that even returns 10% BTC per year for the next 15 years? It will be 1.6 BTC per 1 sold now (at $400/share).

How long does hyperbitcoinization take? If it takes 30 years to drain the bond market (I think its the first domino to fall to bitcoin), then how much will my MSTR be worth, averaging 10% BTC per year? 6.4 BTC per 1 BTC invested now.
If it only takes 15 years to drain the bond market, then I would expect higher bitcoin returns in MSTR - maybe 25% over 15 years. So in only 10 years, that 0.4 BTC becomes 3.2 BTC (Rule of 72 - divide 72 by the CAGR and that is the number of years it takes to double, also works for inflation: 72 divided by inflation rate is the number of years for your purchasing power to be cut in half)
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My essential argument is if you buy $100,000 worth of Bitcoin you are getting $100,000 of Bitcoin. If you purchase $100,000 of Microstrategy then you getting around $33,000 of Bitcoin. Is it possible that in ten years time that the Bitcoin per share of Microstrategy will be 10x of what it is today? Yes it is possible. Is it something I want to be bet on? Not really. Basically Micro-strategy will only easily be able to increase its Bitcoin per share if the shares continue to trade at a premium to NAV which is far from certain.
 
Australia Sucks said:
My essential argument is if you buy $100,000 worth of Bitcoin you are getting $100,000 of Bitcoin. If you purchase $100,000 of Microstrategy then you getting around $33,000 of Bitcoin. Is it possible that in ten years time that the Bitcoin per share of Microstrategy will be 10x of what it is today? Yes it is possible. Is it something I want to be bet on? Not really. Basically Micro-strategy will only easily be able to increase its Bitcoin per share if the shares continue to trade at a premium to NAV which is far from certain.
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100% correct. Bitcoin is saving, MSTR is investing. Investing is never certain.

My hurdle rate is Bitcoin - if there is something that could outperform Bitcoin, its something I may be interested in investing in (especially if its related to Bitcoin)
 
I think its unreasonable that Scorpion temporarily banned Blade Runner for his posting on this thread. Its okay to have disagreements unless people are strongly insulting each other which he was not doing.

And if you feel somebody is misrepresenting what you said you can use your words to argue back because banning is an abuse of authority/power that you have as a moderator. We do not want to return to the dark days of overzealous moderating that occurred towards the end of the Roosh 2.0 forum.
 
Australia Sucks said:
I think its unreasonable that Scorpion temporarily banned Blade Runner for his posting on this thread. Its okay to have disagreements unless people are strongly insulting each other which he was not doing.

And if you feel somebody is misrepresenting what you said you can use your words to argue back because banning is an abuse of authority/power that you have as a moderator. We do not want to return to the dark days of overzealous moderating that occurred towards the end of the Roosh 2.0 forum.
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NOSTR, or something like it, is the future. Forums like this and platforms will go extinct, eventually.

It’s easy to get carried away, trying to explain Bitcoin. Once you get it, it seems so obvious - it’s hard to meet people where they are at, and frustrating.

By the end of next year, there is a good chance we won’t need a Bitcoin thread. 2025 is going to be insane.
 
Australia Sucks said:
I think its unreasonable that Scorpion temporarily banned Blade Runner for his posting on this thread. Its okay to have disagreements unless people are strongly insulting each other which he was not doing.

And if you feel somebody is misrepresenting what you said you can use your words to argue back because banning is an abuse of authority/power that you have as a moderator. We do not want to return to the dark days of overzealous moderating that occurred towards the end of the Roosh 2.0 forum.
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Blade Runner was not temporarily banned for his posting in this thread. He was warned about his aggressive and insulting posting in this thread multiple times over the course of many months. I exhibited extraordinary patience with him, far beyond what I would extend to most posters, specifically because I did not want to give the impression of any personal bias or animosity against him. He was finally issued a temporary ban after mocking me and misrepresenting my arguments in another thread, a thread in which I was not even actively posting in at the time.

I don't have a problem with people disagreeing with me. What I have a problem with is people who repeatedly post like an asshole and treat other members of the forum (me or anyone else) like they are beneath them. This is not a place to come and swing your dick around and insult people who disagree with you. There are plenty of places on the internet to do that sort of thing. This is not one of them.
 
I have already owned Bitcoin for many years but 3 weeks ago I liquidated the last of my stocks and moved the proceeds into crypto. At the moment roughly 90% of my assets are in Bitcoin, around 5% in other cryptos and 5% in precious metals. So I am very Bitcoin heavy.

Concentrated bets are the way you get rich (or poor if you get it wrong) and diversification is how you preserve your wealth once you make it. For now I am trying to create wealth so concentration it is. Either I will get it right and make bundles of money or I will be wrong and go broke. We will see what unfolds over the next 12 months.
 
Australia Sucks said:
Concentrated bets are the way you get rich (or poor if you get it wrong) and diversification is how you preserve your wealth once you make it. For now I am trying to create wealth so concentration it is. Either I will get it right and make bundles of money or I will be wrong and go broke.
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Speculating on volatile financial assets, whether they be individual stocks, options, shitcoins or Bitcoin is not a good way to create wealth. That's just gambling. If you want to create wealth, you need to apply your intelligence (which you clearly have) to solving problems that other people will pay you to help them with. You do this either by selling your skills and knowledge to your employer, or you own a business and sell your skills directly to customers.

This idea that everyone can just get wealthy by buying Bitcoin or other cryptos is an extremely toxic and self-sabotaging mindset. You want to be wealthy? Get to work and make yourself useful to someone else. If you really want to take some risk in search of an outsized reward, don't bet on Bitcoin, bet on yourself and start a business.
 
Volatility is vitality.
Gasoline is volatile. Nuclear fission is volatile. There is energy that can be harnessed. Volatility can be dangerous - a 3 year old playing with fire can burn down the house. A couple of 30 year old brothers from Ohio playing with fire can harness that energy and allow men to fly through the air like birds, up to that point thought impossible for thousands of generations.
 
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