Bitcoin and Crypto Thread

Have you(or. Anyone here) mined crypto?

I looked into it but for it to work you’d almost certainly need to be in a spot with cheap energy costs.

Like if you have a warehouse or home with solar generators , and don’t pay much in utilities then a miner to mine bitcoin , alph, kas or whatnot is not a terrible idea. But otherwise I’d rather just buy crypto.
 
eradicator said:
Have you(or. Anyone here) mined crypto?

I looked into it but for it to work you’d almost certainly need to be in a spot with cheap energy costs.

Like if you have a warehouse or home with solar generators , and don’t pay much in utilities then a miner to mine bitcoin , alph, kas or whatnot is not a terrible idea. But otherwise I’d rather just buy crypto.
Click to expand...
Back when eth was PoW it was very profitable to mine with a bunch of video cards, I mined with a few high end cards up until the eth PoS fork and for each card you could net about $30/mo in either eth or other shipcoins. Now almost all of those cost more in electricity than it’s worth to mine, unless you are in North Dakota or somewhere with basement priced electric
 
chance vought said:
... in the current world of fiat, you must own assets.
Click to expand...
This is a lie. I believe you believe it's true, but it is incorrect.
Australia Sucks said:
You are basically giving outdated boomer advice that worked 30 years ago but is no longer relevant to today's world.
Click to expand...
The world has changed zero amount over the last 30 years. Sometimes the Bible just gets thrown out of the conversations here. Jesus said (paraphrasing), "If you believe everything you experience through your 5 human senses you will be decieved." Through your eyes and ears you believe the world has changed but it has not. You have been decieved because you are stuck on the material plane and this stunts spiritual sight and development. This human struggle isn't about the acquisition of women and money (bitcoin) and "assets" and being right through the false zoomer victimization narrative of "The boomers ruined my life!"

This battle is not about zoomers versus boomers, it's about good versus evil, and as seen via the division in this thread, money is the root of all evil.

Keep centering your life around women and money and keep disrespecting and blaming your elders for all your imagined 1st world problems at your own peril.
 
magoo said:
This is not exactly true. The economy is so broken you can print money and no inflation will come of it. Only with corona and wars we had inflation.
Click to expand...
There are two problems with this narrative. One is that real inflation is usually always higher than CPI as we all know. So even during the "low inflation" years between 2008 and 2020 when the CPI in the USA "only" increased by 22% in reality people's cost of living especially if you properly account for rising house prices probably went up by 35 - 40%. There is a financial incentive to distort the CPI because a lot of payments are contractually linked to the CPI. For example for the government a lot of social secuirty pensions and government employee salaries are contractually bound to increase at the rate of CPI. If you show a lower CPI number your expenses will be lower. And yes theoretically the Bureau of statistics etc are "independent" but its not true in reality.

The second problem with your argument is that a free market economy is supposed to be deflationary on a classical hard money standard. During the 1800s and early 1900s (pre federal reserve) when the U.S.A. had a classical/full gold standard consumer prices actually fell not rose. The reason is that technology is deflationary so in a free market system companies will find ways to produce stuff cheaper over time however under a fiat system this deflationary force of technology is overwhelmed by money printing. So for example between 2008 and 2020 if we were on a classical hard money standard instead of CPI going up by 22% it might have fallen by 22% which is now a massive 44% difference in cost of living at the end of the period!
 
Australia Sucks said:
There are two problems with this narrative. One is that real inflation is usually always higher than CPI as we all know. So even during the "low inflation" years between 2008 and 2020 when the CPI in the USA "only" increased by 22% in reality people's cost of living especially if you properly account for rising house prices probably went up by 35 - 40%. There is a financial incentive to distort the CPI because a lot of payments are contractually linked to the CPI. For example for the government a lot of social secuirty pensions and government employee salaries are contractually bound to increase at the rate of CPI. If you show a lower CPI number your expenses will be lower. And yes theoretically the Bureau of statistics etc are "independent" but its not true in reality.

The second problem with your argument is that a free market economy is supposed to be deflationary on a classical hard money standard. During the 1800s and early 1900s (pre federal reserve) when the U.S.A. had a classical/full gold standard consumer prices actually fell not rose. The reason is that technology is deflationary so in a free market system companies will find ways to produce stuff cheaper over time however under a fiat system this deflationary force of technology is overwhelmed by money printing. So for example between 2008 and 2020 if we were on a classical hard money standard instead of CPI going up by 22% it might have fallen by 22% which is now a massive 44% difference in cost of living at the end of the period!
Click to expand...
Im not making a argument. Im stating a fact. Negative interes rates werent used since 2008. They were introduce by ECB in 2014. Theres probably some paper on it. Negative interest rates are a disease.

Nothing is deflationary if you have taxes amd regulations artificially pumping up the final cost. Tech by itself is just one factor on the final price of goods.

Tech might be deflationary in a capitalist market.

We are in a recession artificially postponed by money printing. Since Obama took office. Or in the middle of his term. The worse US President.

Until taxes and regulation is reduced theres no growth. Its quite simple to understand to anyone who runs a business or is self employed.
 
Last edited:
magoo said:
Im not making a argument. Im stating a fact. Negative interes rates werent used since 2008. They were introduce by ECB in 2014. Theres probably some paper on it. Negative interest rates are a disease.

Nothing is deflationary if you have taxes amd regulations artificially pumping up the final cost. Tech by itself is just one factor on the final price of goods.

Tech might be deflationary in a capitalist market.

We are in a recession artificially postponed by money printing. Since Obama took office. Or in the middle of his term. The worse US President.

Until taxes and regulation is reduced theres no growth. Its quite simple to understand to anyone who runs a business or is self employed.
Click to expand...
The basic argument still holds if you print money prices will be higher than they would otherwise be unless that money is sitting under a mattress somewhere. Nothing you say refutes this basic law of economics.

During the great depression prices went down massively due to debt deflation. Prices did not go down after 2008 this is due to all the money printing that occurred. In 1929 the USA CPI index was at 17.2. It hit a low of 12.9 in 1933. In 1943 the CPI was 17.30. So from 1929 to 1933 consumer prices dropped by 25%. And from 1929 to 1943 a 14 year period consumer prices were unchanged. Compare that to the aftermath of 2008 when we were on a full fiat standard.

What said that you can print money and it will not affect inflation because the economy is weak is absolute nonsense.

And in the 1930s they had already had lots of tarrifs, taxes and regulation so you cannot make the argument that it is the factor that changed. What changed is the full fiat system and money printing.
 
Australia Sucks said:
What said that you can print money and it will not affect inflation because the economy is weak is absolute nonsense.
Click to expand...

What creates inflation?

Law of demand.

More people want to buy something the higher the price increases.

Demand is consumers purchases. The more people buy a good the higher the price. If offer remains equal.

A hotel on the beach charges more according to summer or winter months. Cause in summer the demand is higher. I was buying a surf swimsuit for my oldest in a website. The price changed as I was buying. From a 40% discount. It dropped to 30% till 20% and sold out.

1, A consumer has 20K income/monthly. Pays 5K taxes. He is left with 15k of disposable income to buy goods. If he doesn´t save any money.

2, If the central bank prints money. Which means allows more debt. Let´s say this consumer makes a credit and gets more 5K.

That month he will have 20k disposable income. This will mean inflation.

3, If the government at the same time makes a tax increase. And instead of paying 5K the guy ends up paying 15K of taxes. He will have 10K of disposable income.

1,
20k=income
- 5K= taxes
15K disposable income


2,
20K= income
-5k= taxes
+ 5K= credit

20K disposable income

3,
20k= income
-15k= taxes
5K= credit

10K disposable income

During corona the demand remained the same. Inflation happened in the offer side. There were less offer for the same demand.

I think we are living between 2-3. And they print money for people to believe they are in 1. Income taken by taxes and regulation is replaced with debt. It´s known that taxes are a way to cure inflation. Cause it takes disposable income.

There´s probably deflation of goods or stabilization. And inflation of assets. Even though they end up being correlated. The money printing (debt) is more available for assets than goods. But I had to look into this. Interests are certainly higher for consumer credit than houses.

Im pretty sure the money government takes through taxes and regulations is replaced in debt by families and companies. If this replacement didnt happen you would have brutal deflation.

They work together. Government, tax deparment, banks, insurance. They are coordinated. The scale doesnt move. It´s just replaced with debt.
 
Last edited:
https://www.heritage.org/budget-and-spending/heritage-explains/the-real-story-behind-inflation

Milton Friedman famously said: “Inflation is always and everywhere a monetary phenomenon, in the sense that it is and can be produced only by a more rapid increase in the quantity of money than in output.”

Milton Friedman: It is always and everywhere, a monetary phenomenon. It's always and everywhere, a result of too much money, of a more rapid increase in the quantity of money than an output. Moreover, in the modern era, the important next step is to recognize that today, governments control the quantity of money. So that as a result, inflation in the United States is made in Washington and nowhere else.


Friedman: If you listen to people in Washington and talk, they will tell you that inflation is produced by greedy businessmen or it's produced by grasping unions or it's produced by spendthrift consumers, or maybe, it's those terrible Arab Sheikhs who are producing it. Now, of course, businessmen are greedy. Who of us isn't? Trade unions are grasping. Who of us isn't? And there's no doubt that the consumer is a spendthrift. At least every man knows that about his wife.


Friedman: But none of them produce inflation for the very simple reason that neither the businessman, nor the trade union, nor the housewife has a printing press in their basement on which they can turn out those green pieces of paper we call money.
 
@magoo increasing taxes won’t reduce inflation - unless the government were burning the money. But they aren’t. The government is bidding up prices of everything with the stolen money (taxes), in addition to the printed money.
 
“As more income is collected in taxes, less is available for spending, reducing inflationary pressures”
www.stlouisfed.org

Fiscal Policy - The Economic Lowdown Podcast Series

The government uses fiscal policy to influence the economy, through taxes and spending. Learn more about fiscal policy and its limitations in this podcast.
www.stlouisfed.org www.stlouisfed.org
Theres a thing called the natural or neutral interest rate. Where the interest rate doesnt stimulates or contract the economy. Economy shouldnt be dictated by central banks. But by ppl and business. Its not the job of central banks. They have too much power. Debt shouldnt be the but goverment policies. I dont know at which point does the central bank a verwhelms the economy. Government laisser faire is also important. The main factor of growth or not being dependent of rates is retarded.
www.ecb.europa.eu

Estimates of the natural interest rate for the euro area: an update

The European Central Bank (ECB) is the central bank of the European Union countries which have adopted the euro. Our main task is to maintain price stability in the euro area and so preserve the purchasing power of the single currency.
www.ecb.europa.eu www.ecb.europa.eu

Chatgp

So while raising taxes can be a tool to help control inflation, it must be implemented carefully and as part of a broader strategy.
 
Last edited:
magoo said:
“As more income is collected in taxes, less is available for spending, reducing inflationary pressures”
www.stlouisfed.org

Fiscal Policy - The Economic Lowdown Podcast Series

The government uses fiscal policy to influence the economy, through taxes and spending. Learn more about fiscal policy and its limitations in this podcast.
www.stlouisfed.org www.stlouisfed.org
Theres a thing called the natural or neutral interest rate. Where the interest rate doesnt stimulates or contract the economy. Economy shouldnt be dictated by central banks. But by ppl and business. Its not the job of central banks. They have too much power. Debt shouldnt be the but goverment policies. I dont know at which point does the central bank a verwhelms the economy. Government laisser faire is also important. The main factor of growth or not being dependent of rates is retarded.
www.ecb.europa.eu

Estimates of the natural interest rate for the euro area: an update

The European Central Bank (ECB) is the central bank of the European Union countries which have adopted the euro. Our main task is to maintain price stability in the euro area and so preserve the purchasing power of the single currency.
www.ecb.europa.eu www.ecb.europa.eu

Chatgp

So while raising taxes can be a tool to help control inflation, it must be implemented carefully and as part of a broader strategy.
Click to expand...
All of this comes from John Maynard Keynes. He made up nonsensical excuses to justify inflation and governments continually creating counterfeit money.IMG_1005.jpeg
 
Last edited:
The economy and fiscal policy should be the main drive of society. Interest rates and central banking should take a back seat. Governments have given away their power to central banking cause they are bitches to jews.
 
Last edited:
magoo said:
The economy and fiscal policy should be the main drive of society. Interest rates and central banking should take a back seat. Governments have given away their power to central banking cause they are bitches to jews.
Click to expand...
Exactly right. A money that has rules, not rulers. Problem solved as of 31 Oct, 2009
 
scorpion said:
You said before that you were chasing wealth
Click to expand...
He's chasing freedom/optionality or, if you prefer, being able to have options through FU money. Not being constrained by job demands or the rat race, ultimately. Everyone seeks this.
chance vought said:
Bitcoin is not rent seeking - rent seeking is just being a middle man that extracts economic value without providing any.
Click to expand...
That is correct. As it is a money, it is something that also has a price. That's why it can be confused that it is part of some "game" because money in generally is a poorly understood concept, and as we have said, has value based on characteristics ultimately, but really agreement (trust).
 
chance vought said:
The prisoners dilemma: why bitcoin wins
12:04

Click to expand...


This is why I'm betting big on Bitcoin and have been buying up the recent dips much as I can. When countries start buying in and have reserves in bitcoin then the game changes dramatically and BTC crushes it's recent highs making it look like bargain shopping. If a company or country can buy up/monopolize bitcoin then they win every game.
 
Uzisuicide said:
If a company or country can buy up/monopolize bitcoin then they win every game.
Click to expand...
Thought experiment: let's say a single country owns a supermajority of all Bitcoin.

What exactly do you think this does for them? What absolute advantage has this country gained relative to their peers?

Surely you understand the difference between Bitcoin (which is essentially a multiplayer computer game where people compete to hoard Bitcoins) and real world strategic assets like oil/gas, rare earth minerals, agricultural production, advanced manufacturing capabilities and healthy population demographics?

A country that has a large amount of the things I listed above is a rich and powerful country. A country that has a lot of Bitcoin has numbers on a screen. This is why the proposal of Bitcoin being a "strategic reserve asset" is an idea almost beyond farce. It's literally like a country buying up Pokemon cards.
 
scorpion said:
Thought experiment: let's say a single country owns a supermajority of all Bitcoin.

What exactly do you think this does for them? What absolute advantage has this country gained relative to their peers?

Surely you understand the difference between Bitcoin (which is essentially a multiplayer computer game where people compete to hoard Bitcoins) and real world strategic assets like oil/gas, rare earth minerals, agricultural production, advanced manufacturing capabilities and healthy population demographics?

A country that has a large amount of the things I listed above is a rich and powerful country. A country that has a lot of Bitcoin has numbers on a screen. This is why the proposal of Bitcoin being a "strategic reserve asset" is an idea almost beyond farce. It's literally like a country buying up Pokemon cards.
Click to expand...

Of course a society needs the things you listed to be prosperous. Simply from a financial standpoint, it's a no-brainer for a state to invest in a hard asset like Bitcoin. You cannot print more bitcoin. Fiat can and is 'printed' all day long through the issuance of debt. Blockchain provides a currency benchmark because it is finite. We might as well be trading Pokemon cards for goods with what has become of our currencies since the early 20th century. Nothing has value unless that value is perceived by others. My stock purchases are nothing more than numbers on a screen that have value. Agreed, all of it could come crashing down if people no longer believe it has value.

It took me awhile to wrap my head around Bitcoin and blockchain in general. I thought the whole idea of Bitcoin was preposterous but blockchain is here and governments are beginning to take a 'can't beat 'em join 'em' approach. As they do, the value of Bitcoin will continue to explode and I hope to be along for the ride. And if it fails then by all means, feel free to mock me profusely. :)

 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top