The Destruction of Modern Women

You can start a thread or ask in a different place, because what you post there is not true. All the original orthodox churches, through the 4th century when slight disagreements started to pop up, and the roman catholics of course as well, through the great schism all taught this. As an example of what I'm talking about, and I don't consider all that many things being dogma as Orthodox, just what is essential - you can say St. Gregory Nyssa might have been a universalist. You could also say Origen was, and even anathematized, though he wasn't alive to defend himself. What's the point? The Church taught the orthodox teaching, in all cases.
 
Getting back to the thread topic, again, it comes down to population boom, excess wealth, technology, and hypergamy. That's a lethal combo for men in a wealth society that is secular. There's essentially zero checks on women. That was my point in the last few posts. It doesn't help that all the people who usually do the matching (women tend to do this as they are out and about, knowing and talking to many people, including other women) do not like the fact that a man will not see women as they do (indifferent to chubbiness or being older, as they are likely both).
 
Blade Runner said:
Getting back to the thread topic, again, it comes down to population boom, excess wealth, technology, and hypergamy. That's a lethal combo for men in a wealth society that is secular. There's essentially zero checks on women. That was my point in the last few posts. It doesn't help that all the people who usually do the matching (women tend to do this as they are out and about, knowing and talking to many people, including other women) do not like the fact that a man will not see women as they do (indifferent to chubbiness or being older, as they are likely both).
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Women are allowed to have standards. Nobody will blink an eye if a woman says "I want a tall man" or "I want a man who earns 6 figures" but according to society a man is a shallow asshole and undeserving of a good wife he wants a woman who is thin and under 25. Apparently as men we should just be thankful for any woman that would have us.
 
Unending Powerhouse Match said:
He said "Taliban-style", not "Taliban." I think he just means restricting women's behavior and role in public life, and punishing whorish behavior harshly. Which is what a traditional Christian society would do.

I don't think Australia Sucks wants to declare Islam the state religion, outlaw Christianity and force women to wear DIY ghost Halloween costumes. Let's interpret his words charitably.

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This is 100% accurate.
 
Blade Runner said:
That wasn't what the discussion or issue was, however. I am sure that women treat certain men different for others but that doesn't mean that the same women treat others "poorly" which was what I was commenting on. Even if it is mean through indifference, or ignorance, or some such thing, not being aware of men or not giving them any attention is far different than treating someone poorly during active engagement.
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What I mean is that for example if a western man goes to the Philippines the same Filipina that is cooking for him and being submissive and pleasant to him in the hopes of locking him down because she sees him as high value this very same woman before the westerner came along was flaking and ghosting on some local average Filipino dude (who is short and has low income etc), never cooked for him, argued with him, etc. Unless you are talking about that 1 in 100,000 woman who volunteers at the local homeless shelter and attends church every week, etc. Basically when women are nice its mostly fake or because they want something. Its almost never because they are a good human being. At least not when it comes to younger women. Older women (e.g. 60 years old, etc) were raised in different times and that generation of women (at least in the poorer countries) is completely different to the younger women.

Blade Runner said:
Even when Europeans had women in defined roles they still had greater latitude and choice, relative to other groups. This is one of the reasons why they advanced more than other groups. I don't think what you state will ever happen, but compared to now it'll certainly seem that way. But when will women ever stop complaining? Not gonna happen. Even when things are better than ever for them, it continues! Pretty funny when you think about it.
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Yes what you are saying is largely true if you expect Europeans to still have control over Europe. I mean if things get bad enough to due to demographic collapse and out of control migration that Europe will lose law and order and at least partially succumb to the refugee/migrant gangs, mafias, at that point maybe even warlords, etc. Not saying this will happen by the way just that it is a possibility that needs to be taken into consideration.
 
Australia Sucks said:
What I mean is that for example if a western man goes to the Philippines the same Filipina that is cooking for him and being submissive and pleasant to him in the hopes of locking him down because she sees him as high value this very same woman before the westerner came along was flaking and ghosting on some local average Filipino dude (who is short and has low income etc), never cooked for him, argued with him, etc. Unless you are talking about that 1 in 100,000 woman who volunteers at the local homeless shelter and attends church every week, etc. Basically when women are nice its mostly fake or because they want something. Its almost never because they are a good human being.
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I get what you are saying, but I don’t think it’s because some women aren’t inherently good.

Like you said, women respond to you based on how valuable they see you, the same way men see a beautiful woman and a fat woman differently.

What’s happening, and again social media is mostly to blame, is that what women see as ‘high value’ is extremely skewed. The hoemath guy has shown this many times, that in their mind the average man is really the top
1% man. So for men it’s become a massive arm race to become ‘Chad’ which in the end usually fails anyway, because women who only select for those things will drop you immediately if/when they no longer exist.

Just like I’ve heard some young people claim
they will be multimillionaires before 30, the stats and math just don’t bear it out.


Australia Sucks said:
At least not when it comes to younger women. Older women (e.g. 60 years old, etc) were raised in different times and that generation of women (at least in the poorer countries) is completely different to the younger women.
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Australia Sucks said:
Basically when women are nice its mostly fake or because they want something. Its almost never because they are a good human being. At least not when it comes to younger women.
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Josephus said:
Like you said, women respond to you based on how valuable they see you, the same way men see a beautiful woman and a fat woman differently.
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Yes, perhaps the difference is that women tend to still go out and "date", lead on, or interact with guys that are seen as relatively lower value, instead of most guys just moving on and generally not leading women on. Now, some guys do to dumpster dive, but then we just come full circle back the reality that women are not at all honest or serious about who they can get and keep. You let a guy bone you who is way out of your league? Obviously that's your fault. Similarly, it's a simps fault if he doesn't understand a girl is points above him and might use him for $. The problem more often is that in the modern day, regarding the women's value and their level, there are guys taking them out that are easily the same or even slightly higher and they still treat them like bald midgets.
 
Blade Runner said:
Yes, perhaps the difference is that women tend to still go out and "date", lead on, or interact with guys that are seen as relatively lower value, instead of most guys just moving on and generally not leading women on. Now, some guys do to dumpster dive, but then we just come full circle back the reality that women are not at all honest or serious about who they can get and keep. You let a guy bone you who is way out of your league? Obviously that's your fault. Similarly, it's a simps fault if he doesn't understand a girl is points above him and might use him for $. The problem more often is that in the modern day, regarding the women's value and their level, there are guys taking them out that are easily the same or even slightly higher and they still treat them like bald midgets.
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Women tend to date up, men tend to date down (there are exceptions).

This has become even more pronounced in the era of dating apps and social media - giving women much more attention and options to continually try to hypergamy.
 
homersheineken said:
Women tend to date up, men tend to date down (there are exceptions).
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While true, it is rarely stated that women only have a short interval for this, convoluting the entire analysis of it. It's why everything goes so haywire when women don't strike early and sell when value is high. That alone crushes family formation and the "market", with its friend, the social taboo of "age gaps". You wouldn't believe the number of simpy videos I've seen on reels regarding how men who want to date younger women do it for (nonsense) reason X. It's rarer than red pill stuff, but funny in that it's another social media con job of telling people (women and phags) what they want to hear, complete pandering for clicks, attention and/or money, of course.
 
After reading Mindset by Carol Dweck (a Jew, I know), I think a lot of women's behavior can be explained by the fixed-mindset :: growth-mindset dichotomy. In short, the fixed-mindset person believes traits are static, like intelligence, which means effort is useless to change this trait. A growth-mindset person would view intelligence as dynamic and see effort as a way to change it. For women, I think they are caught in a fixed-mindset concerning their beauty. They see themselves as the prize, meaning effort has little value in how they approach relationships.

Despite how much women talk about relationships, it seems like a skill many never develop. I believe it's because of the fixed-mindset. The man has to do all the work. Much like how the naturally intelligent person views dumb people as the ones who have to put a lot of effort into learning, so too does the beautiful woman view men as the ones who have to put in all the effort to have a relationship with them. I think this is why redpill PUAs developed concepts like "I'm the prize" and the nuclear option, among others, because they snap women out of the fixed-mindset. Women tend to be more willing to work on a relationship with a man who is more attractive than they are. The problem with many Western women is they all think they're much more beautiful than they actually are, increasing the rate of fixed-mindsets.

When women do things, like go to the gym, post their trad-wife garbage on instagram, join churches, join men's groups, most of it is to gain validating feedback that they are as beautiful as they think they are. The fixed-mindset person, according to Dweck, avoids challenges, gives up easily, and focuses on the outcome. To me, that sounds like many a woman's history of dating. As for growth-mindset people they tend to embrace challenges, persevere in the face of adversity, accept and learn from failure, focus on process rather than outcome, and see abilities as skills which are developed through effort. Does that sound like any woman's approach to a relationship that you know?

I think the fixed-mindset is almost the default way the majority of people develop, and I theorize that because it's the path that requires the least effort, it's the quick and easy path, the short-cut. I don't know how to address this at large in the dating arena, but I suspect the fixed-mindset to be a big reason for the destruction of women, because society at every level keeps validating their fixed mindset, I don't come across anything in popular culture that encourages women to work at relationships.
 
thinkreadwritecode said:
After reading Mindset by Carol Dweck (a Jew, I know), I think a lot of women's behavior can be explained by the fixed-mindset :: growth-mindset dichotomy. In short, the fixed-mindset person believes traits are static, like intelligence, which means effort is useless to change this trait. A growth-mindset person would view intelligence as dynamic and see effort as a way to change it. For women, I think they are caught in a fixed-mindset concerning their beauty. They see themselves as the prize, meaning effort has little value in how they approach relationships.

Despite how much women talk about relationships, it seems like a skill many never develop. I believe it's because of the fixed-mindset. The man has to do all the work. Much like how the naturally intelligent person views dumb people as the ones who have to put a lot of effort into learning, so too does the beautiful woman view men as the ones who have to put in all the effort to have a relationship with them. I think this is why redpill PUAs developed concepts like "I'm the prize" and the nuclear option, among others, because they snap women out of the fixed-mindset. Women tend to be more willing to work on a relationship with a man who is more attractive than they are. The problem with many Western women is they all think they're much more beautiful than they actually are, increasing the rate of fixed-mindsets.

When women do things, like go to the gym, post their trad-wife garbage on instagram, join churches, join men's groups, most of it is to gain validating feedback that they are as beautiful as they think they are. The fixed-mindset person, according to Dweck, avoids challenges, gives up easily, and focuses on the outcome. To me, that sounds like many a woman's history of dating. As for growth-mindset people they tend to embrace challenges, persevere in the face of adversity, accept and learn from failure, focus on process rather than outcome, and see abilities as skills which are developed through effort. Does that sound like any woman's approach to a relationship that you know?

I think the fixed-mindset is almost the default way the majority of people develop, and I theorize that because it's the path that requires the least effort, it's the quick and easy path, the short-cut. I don't know how to address this at large in the dating arena, but I suspect the fixed-mindset to be a big reason for the destruction of women, because society at every level keeps validating their fixed mindset, I don't come across anything in popular culture that encourages women to work at relationships.
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Especially in marriages. You'd think once women marry they'd mature and move into a "growth-mindset," but no, if the marriage doesn't go the way they want they just give up on the marriage within a few years.
 
Samseau said:
Especially in marriages. You'd think once women marry they'd mature and move into a "growth-mindset," but no, if the marriage doesn't go the way they want they just give up on the marriage within a few years.
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True but if men stopped simping the problem would go away. All men have to do collectively is to refuse to marry non-virgins and women would quickly start becoming chaste again. In a lot of the more conservative muslin countries the majority of men will not marry non-virgins and so the percentage of virgins is much higher. Even a lot of guys on this forum would be happy to marry non-virgins therefore they are contributing to the problem in my eyes.
 
Australia Sucks said:
True but if men stopped simping the problem would go away. All men have to do collectively is to refuse to marry non-virgins and women would quickly start becoming chaste again. In a lot of the more conservative muslin countries the majority of men will not marry non-virgins and so the percentage of virgins is much higher. Even a lot of guys on this forum would be happy to marry non-virgins therefore they are contributing to the problem in my eyes.
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There need to actually be virgin women out there for this to happen. Western men settle for non-virgins because the choice is between that and nothing. They cannot, and arguably should not, choose nothing.
 
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Australia Sucks said:
True but if men stopped simping the problem would go away. All men have to do collectively is to refuse to marry non-virgins and women would quickly start becoming chaste again. In a lot of the more conservative muslin countries the majority of men will not marry non-virgins and so the percentage of virgins is much higher. Even a lot of guys on this forum would be happy to marry non-virgins therefore they are contributing to the problem in my eyes.
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In Muslim countries the women usually are married before 18, in some cases even before puberty, while in the West that isn’t an option. Heck you’ll be called a creep for targeting college aged women if you’re late 20s and beyond by some people (although this shouldn’t stop men from trying.)

It’s extremely challenging to find a virgin bride which is why men who want children choose to get married anyway. I wouldn’t call this simping though, simping is giving money while not getting something in return. (Think of twitch streamers getting tips from men.)
 
Unending Powerhouse Match said:
There need to actually be virgin women out there for this to happen. Western men settle for non-virgins because the choice is between that and nothing. They cannot, and arguably should not, choose nothing.
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Who says they should choose nothing? Just don't marry western women and spend a few years living overseas. If guys are prepared to invest 3 or 4 years to get a college degree why can't they invest 2 or 3 years to live in a foreign country to find a virgin to marry? After a good wife is far more of an ahcievement than a college degree.
 
Australia Sucks said:
Who says they should choose nothing? Just don't marry western women and spend a few years living overseas. If guys are prepared to invest 3 or 4 years to get a college degree why can't they invest 2 or 3 years to live in a foreign country to find a virgin to marry? After a good wife is far more of an ahcievement than a college degree.
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This is just not an option for most men. Most men do not have the option of working remote, so they'd have to uproot their entire life and hope that they can continue it in another country, making significantly less money and now lacking a support network.

If I leave my country, that means leaving behind everyone I know and love. My parents and grandparents are old, I could not ask them to come with me, and 4 years is not a small amount of time, they could die without me being there in their final moments. All for what? The mere chance of getting with some woman? The idea of going that far for a woman makes me sick to my core.
 
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thinkreadwritecode said:
I think the fixed-mindset is almost the default way the majority of people develop, and I theorize that because it's the path that requires the least effort, it's the quick and easy path, the short-cut.
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It seems like a fancy way to explain what's going on, to elaborate on it in a sense, possibly to sell a point of view or write a book. I like my analysis better, to be honest: low IQ and hormonal people (mostly go together, or with smart women the hormonal/estrogen and early peaking in life dominates) are just high time preference. That predilection leads to non thinking over the long term/caring about analysis, no desire to put in work to see gains tomorrow, and laziness in general, which is the essence of high time preference - what is better than doing NOTHING/fun right now? Ha.

The interesting thing about women is that they need to really care about others to think long term. That's why they care about kids, or need kids to rightly guide their mindset. Similarly, they really need to need men, or else they won't look at men at all in a future tense, or as someone they need to grow with.
 
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