Thoughts on suicide

[cheapchampion]

My ex gf OD'ed in May and it was ruled suicide, and a good friend of mine died last month, really from cumulative health issues (neither were jabbed FWIW).

I have long had a kind of fascination with suicide, and certainly have had temptations, especially in my first years leaving the military. I think it's strangely normal; as Louis CK puts it, everyone knows how rough life can get, and everyone alive has made some kind of decision to say, I'm just gonna keep doing it.

Upon reflecting on the deaths of these people close to me, I am starting to think that they were both in the realm of suicide. My friend didn't take his life, but he had completely given up several years prior and was just passing the time. In that sense, we could look at suicide as little bits of giving up.

Of course, there is a difference between jumping off a bridge and just coasting through life, but honestly, I think the main reason my friend didn't go that route is because suicide is scary. When I was deep in that place, I wanted to die, but I was too cowardly to do it. I didn't want to fail and wind up in even more pain. It seems there's a certain courage necessary to actually go through with it.

I think our judgment before God will be a lot more thorough and nuanced than we tend to think, as any good judgment would be. I think out "little suicides", if you will, will be weighed against, say, our lack of guts to actually follow through. Put another way: the world tries to put every event into a box: this person died by _____. This person died by _____, etc. But when we look back, we will see there were so many factors at play.

Anyway, just thought I'd share this rather morbid subject for others to chime in.

 

[Thomas More]

I think you make a good point here. I have been through a lot in recent years, and I have tended to have a negative attitude towards life and the nature of things. It's not to hard for me to think that life stinks. I try not to think this, and my life has been getting better so it's becoming easier to see it's not true.

I recently heard preaching on the importance of counting your blessings. The pastor said they did a study on people over 100, and found they all are grateful and glad to be alive every time they wake up and have another day of life. This attitude of gratefulness was a key factor in their longevity. On the other hand, he said unhappy, ungrateful people are likely to die early. I think this is very true.

I've recognized in my own life that I have to make a point to develop a better attitude, and to learn to count my blessings, or I'm going have a shorter life. I think this fits well with your point about "little suicides", of people giving up and coasting towards an early death. They are killing themselves slowly, which is like a form of suicide, even if they don't actually blow their brains out.

 

[cheapchampion]

I think you make a good point here. I have been through a lot in recent years, and I have tended to have a negative attitude towards life and the nature of things. It's not to hard for me to think that life stinks. I try not to think this, and my life has been getting better so it's becoming easier to see it's not true.

I recently heard preaching on the importance of counting your blessings. The pastor said they did a study on people over 100, and found they all are grateful and glad to be alive every time they wake up and have another day of life. This attitude of gratefulness was a key factor in their longevity. On the other hand, he said unhappy, ungrateful people are likely to die early. I think this is very true.

I've recognized in my own life that I have to make a point to develop a better attitude, and to learn to count my blessings, or I'm going have a shorter life. I think this fits well with your point about "little suicides", of people giving up and coasting towards an early death. They are killing themselves slowly, which is like a form of suicide, even if they don't actually blow their brains out.

Yeah, it seems that as Christians we strive to achieve a balance. On one hand, we should be filled with joy, a fruit of the spirit, count our blessings, be thankful and glad. On the other hand, this is not our home, we should look for Jesus' coming, and not be attached here. So it's not all bad to not want to be here anymore, there can be a virtue that. For nonbelievers, man, they think death will ease their pain and suddenly they wake up and realize this world was the best they'll ever have it. For believers, this really is the worst we will have it. (Not intending to start a theological debate with anyone, so however one sees it on that matter).

Going back to the giving up/mini-suicide thing, I was thinking about how sin literally kills us slowly (or all at once), and how a person giving up invariably means they've given over to sin completely. That could mean something like drunkenness or being excessively lazy, etc. On some level, we all kill ourselves over time no matter what.

 

[God's lonely asperger]

Suicide is always nasty for everyone involved. I can't speak for the Lord on if they get saved, but it is always nasty behavior (just imagine the wellness checks...). One of, if not the, most extreme sin. I don't think about it myself, but that's just me.

Regardless of almost anything, we should just be nice to each other. No one is killing themselves over "kys fagget" online, but they are over being abandoned and all that. This is really grim, but you can mildly feel the cleanup in neurotic circles during and after the holiday season. Those guys could have had some more support, but it varies.

It did shock a bit to see "Thoughts on suicide" near "Origins of HIV" when I opened the website. Extreme correlation.

For believers, this really is the worst we will have it. (Not intending to start a theological debate with anyone, so however one sees it on that matter).

Hedonism and asceticism is a big conundrum, and especially in religion. If the theological debate started, I don't want to think about how it'd end.

 

[cheapchampion]

Suicide is always nasty for everyone involved. I can't speak for the Lord on if they get saved, but it is always nasty behavior (just imagine the wellness checks...). One of, if not the, most extreme sin.

I don't know what you mean by extreme, but I don't think it's even close to the worst sin. Murder, blaspheming the Holy Ghost and sodomy I definitely think are all worse. Pride and unbelief are probably worse as well as those are very much root/heart matters.

 

[God's lonely asperger]

Murder

This was mentioned by @Thomas More, but suicide is essentially murdering yourself. I can't think of a single denomination that doesn't think of it as extreme, and at that point, it's a ranking on what sin gets you to Hell faster on the wild ride of Satan.

 

[cheapchampion]

This was mentioned by @Thomas More, but suicide is essentially murdering yourself. I can't think of a single denomination that doesn't think of it as extreme, and at that point, it's a ranking on what sin gets you to Hell faster on the wild ride of Satan.

I'm confused by two things. 1) why you assume I don't think suicide is a major sin. And 2) why you think murdering yourself is worse than murdering others.

Bear in mind also, the wages/penalty of sin is death (Romans 6:23). We are all guilty of killing ourselves to an extent because we have all sinned. If sin never entered the world, nobody would have died.

Suicide is a bad sin, but there is very little argument to be made that it is worse than things like murder, sodomy, pride, fear of man, blaspheming the Holy Ghost...

 

[God's lonely asperger]

I'm confused by two things. 1) why you assume I don't think suicide is a major sin.

I don't think that, I just think your ranking of sin is a bit silly. Don't be a homo or hang yourself and you should be fine. Sin is sin. No point in saying one you intentionally do is worse or better. The worse ones are the intentional ones. And they sting like a knife to the wrist.

And 2) why you think murdering yourself is worse than murdering others.

This is more theological ground, but it is probably worse for (your own) salvation. You can't reflect on a sin like murder, and have a second chance, when you already abused your plan B and face the trial. I don't want to push the theological ground too much though.

 

[cheapchampion]

I don't think that, I just think your ranking of sin is a bit silly. Don't be a homo or hang yourself and you should be fine. Sin is sin. No point in saying one you intentionally do is worse or better.

I disagree. Jesus even says there is one commandment above all - loving the Lord God with all our heart, soul and mind. I would take that as NOT doing that as being the biggest sin.

I take sins of the heart as being worse because all others stem from them. Pride, unbelief, etc.

And I mention things like sodomy only because God says they should carry essentially capital punishment. I realize there are many others.



Sin is sin for sure, but I do think they are weighed, and I believe the blood of Jesus covers ALL of them and salvation is freely offered to all.

 

[cheapchampion]

This is more theological ground, but it is probably worse for (your own) salvation. You can't reflect on a sin like murder, and have a second chance, when you already abused your plan B and face the trial. I don't want to push the theological ground too much though.

For sure, in that sense I agree. I actually think Judas would have been forgiven had he simply asked Jesus, but instead he checked out early.

 

[God's lonely asperger]

I disagree. Jesus even says there is one commandment above all - loving the Lord God with all our heart, soul and mind. I would take that as NOT doing that as being the biggest sin.

If you aren't a believer, then the game is rigged from the start. Like I said at the start of the thread, I can't speak for Christ on who gets saved. Be it a fornicator who died by accident, or a lapsed believer who gave up on life and murdered himself.

Sin is sin for sure, but I do think they are weighed, and I believe the blood of Jesus covers ALL of them and salvation is freely offered to all.

For sure, in that sense I agree. I actually think Judas would have been forgiven had he simply asked Jesus, but instead he checked out early.

I am glad we can agree on both of these.

 

[Rodion]

I don't know what you mean by extreme, but I don't think it's even close to the worst sin. Murder, blaspheming the Holy Ghost and sodomy I definitely think are all worse. Pride and unbelief are probably worse as well as those are very much root/heart matters.

I’ve heard it argued that suicide is blaspheming the Holy Spirit (the giver of life) because you’re rejected God’s saving grace and chosen death in an unrepentant state.

 

[DeusLuxMeaEst]

It’s topics like this that make me question when people deal in absolutes when it comes to theology. Things like if a person commits suicide they automatically go to hell. It just screams of trying to understand God’s judgement or will. Or even worse simply an arrogant attempt by man to decipher something that is unknowable, the will and judgement of God.

So I’m not sure of the theological arguments, nor will I entertain them in the thread, but what can I tell you is simply my experience.

Mental disease, depression, and suicidal ideation are very real. When I was going through this my church community, the people around me, or even society at large did not do a good job of offering any support in these matters. Frankly, part was my own doing and as a stoic man, I didn’t really speak about it. The strange thing was that on paper, there was nothing wrong with me and people looking from the outside would never think I was in such a bad state.

But I came to close to killing myself a few times as in I made the plan and the method. It’s a long story, I won’t get into but in the end I realized that it was not my choice to make that decision to take my life. If you’ve encountered anyone who has dealt with grief, you will realize that you would be increasing pain in the world around you. That suffering that a person may have ended is just transferred to the people that knew them. It’s can be an incredibly selfish act. That’s not even getting into the spiritual aspect of such a decision.

 

[JCSteel]

I've heard some people describe their suicide attempt as a calm, rational decision; I'm sure others try to kill themselves in a fit of mental anguish/irrationality. I'd like to think God judges us less harshly when we're overcome with emotion and can't behave rationally.

In the Bible there are instances when men are so overwhelmed with life that they wish themselves dead. Job curses the day he was born, and both Jonah and Elijah ask God to end their lives. There's real bitterness there.

To those suffering the only answer is to pray and appeal to the one who forms the light and creates the darkness, who makes peace and creates calamity.

 

[fortyfive]

Upon reflecting on the deaths of these people close to me, I am starting to think that they were both in the realm of suicide. My friend didn't take his life, but he had completely given up several years prior and was just passing the time. In that sense, we could look at suicide as little bits of giving up.

This phenomenon is described interestingly by Victor Frankl (famous Austrian psychiatrist) in his personal account of surviving a concentration camp during World War II.
He said he noticed there that when a person gives up mentally, his body follows that lead and soon dies physically.

It just confirms the Biblical point and numerous other books written by authors researching this topic too: that a human body is just a house.
But the house does not determine the destiny of a man.

The real man is the man inside. The inward man.
And if his spirit is saved by Christ and his soul and mind are strong and constantly renewed by God's Word and teachings leading to victory, then such a person overcomes anything.

In principle, never giving up is first a decision made purposefully and repeatedly in mind, then it becomes a habit, and then you will find yourself living automatically in this mindset, and even the suggestion of surrendering to this world or any obstacles will sound to you utterly absurd.
We will submit only to God and no one else.

 

[Caractacus Potts]

Sometimes I think it is more nuanced. I remember John Wayne telling cowboys to save one for themselves (a bullet) as they faced down an onslaught from Indians who they knew would torture them to death. Does that get one a one way ticket to hell?

When my daughter was dying, I tried making deals with God - take me instead of her - but he wasn't answering the phone. Will that be held against me when I stand before the throne in judgement? I don't know. Forgive me for rambling but I have been drniking tonight.

 

[Get2choppaaa]

I don't know what you mean by extreme, but I don't think it's even close to the worst sin. Murder, blaspheming the Holy Ghost and sodomy I definitely think are all worse. Pride and unbelief are probably worse as well as those are very much root/heart matters.

My understand of Suicide is that it is the ultimate form of blasphemy.

It's the only sin you can't repent for because you actively taking anyway that ability through killing yourself.

That's what I remember from my catechumen time at least.

 

[paternos]

I’ve heard it argued that suicide is blaspheming the Holy Spirit (the giver of life) because you’re rejected God’s saving grace and chosen death in an unrepentant state.

That's it.

Your life isn't yours, it's God's, the giver and taker of life.

People that commit suicide reject God. Plain and simple as that. Under guidance of the devil.

The source is always a deep spiritual problem which has been lingering for years, which hasn't been addressed.

I mean if your parents tell you sex change is possible, that's troubling. Or when you kill your foreign brother in a war far away because your superior told you so, that's your own responsibility. You decided to shoot.

But we need to put it in perspective, many in their daily lives commit cardinal sin, daily, watching porn is like committing suicide. Same goes for drugs. Day in, day out. Or cheating. Or lying. Or spreading lies when your state boss tells you so.

People are dancing with the devil, it's not surprising the devil gets a hold of some to fullfil the ultimate sacrament to him. Offering your own life on the altar of ba'al.

I would suggest everyone with these thoughts to go see a priest. Especially the ones who openly speak on sin and the devil.

It's a battle between dark and light. Day in, day out.

 

[paternos]

My ex gf OD'ed in May and it was ruled suicide, and a good friend of mine died last month, really from cumulative health issues (neither were jabbed FWIW).

I have long had a kind of fascination with suicide, and certainly have had temptations, especially in my first years leaving the military. I think it's strangely normal; as Louis CK puts it, everyone knows how rough life can get, and everyone alive has made some kind of decision to say, I'm just gonna keep doing it.

Upon reflecting on the deaths of these people close to me, I am starting to think that they were both in the realm of suicide. My friend didn't take his life, but he had completely given up several years prior and was just passing the time. In that sense, we could look at suicide as little bits of giving up.

Of course, there is a difference between jumping off a bridge and just coasting through life, but honestly, I think the main reason my friend didn't go that route is because suicide is scary. When I was deep in that place, I wanted to die, but I was too cowardly to do it. I didn't want to fail and wind up in even more pain. It seems there's a certain courage necessary to actually go through with it.

I think our judgment before God will be a lot more thorough and nuanced than we tend to think, as any good judgment would be. I think out "little suicides", if you will, will be weighed against, say, our lack of guts to actually follow through. Put another way: the world tries to put every event into a box: this person died by _____. This person died by _____, etc. But when we look back, we will see there were so many factors at play.

Anyway, just thought I'd share this rather morbid subject for others to chime in.

And you say some very disturbing evil thoughts.

I have long had a kind of fascination with suicide

Check this with a priest. Problematic to say the least.

My ex gf OD'ed in May

Seems you were not married. And not following any law God gave us.

neither were jabbed FWIW

Seems you have bigger things to worry about.

in my first years leaving the military

Supporting the killing of boys abroad for the state

I think it's strangely normal

It's not

When I was deep in that place, I wanted to die, but I was too cowardly to do it.

Some call that grace.

It seems there's a certain courage necessary to actually go through with it.

This is plain evil. Asking for more devilish posession? Inviting the devil?

I think our judgment before God will be a lot more thorough and nuanced than we tend to think, as any good judgment would be.

Sure man. Think of your own God.

ur lack of guts to actually follow through.

Invite the devil again...

See a priest. Go to good Orthodox or Catholic church. Find the spirit confession. And ask for Gods help.

Keep inviting the devil and you might go the same way.

 

[cheapchampion]

And you say some very disturbing evil thoughts.

Check this with a priest. Problematic to say the least.

Seems you were not married. And not following any law God gave us.

Seems you have bigger things to worry about.

Supporting the killing of boys abroad for the state

It's not

Some call that grace.

This is plain evil. Asking for more devilish posession? Inviting the devil?

Sure man. Think of your own God.

Invite the devil again...

See a priest. Go to good Orthodox or Catholic church. Find the spirit confession. And ask for Gods help.

Keep inviting the devil and you might go the same way.

So your (completely unsolicited) advice is, what, that I just be a better Christian? Thank you and carry on.