Thoughts on suicide

Since this discussion has taken a theological turn I’ve been toying with the idea that highly emotional [unstable] states, including positive ones like infatuation, are actually satanic. I believe the perfect state is one where you’re in pure equilibrium with your environment and your input/output is of a stable, unwavering energy.

Does this idea have any Christian basis?
 
Since this discussion has taken a theological turn I’ve been toying with the idea that highly emotional [unstable] states, including positive ones like infatuation, are actually satanic. I believe the perfect state is one where you’re in pure equilibrium with your environment and your input/output is of a stable, unwavering energy.

Does this idea have any Christian basis?

I think there may be something to that, a kind of being in frequency with God's spirit that takes a lot of humbling. "He must increase, but I must decrease." John 3:30.
I don't think we are meant to be stoic, as joy is a fruit of the spirit, but there's no question our passions can get the better of us. "The heart is deceitful above all things." Jeremiah 17:9
 
I did not read all replies but my take is:

I understand some cases might be justified, like some terminal illness. Your quality of life is crap due to constant pain and prolonging will only lead to more suffering. That's an example of a physical, not mental problem.

Some people are mentally weak. Can't control themselves against alcohol, drugs, food... A common theme I see these days is the lack of purpose and zero social interactions in person.

Women have it easy. Just take care of your appearance and stay away from social media, where you'll be comparing yourself to the next hot girl. As for men, start a career. You don't have to be rich but there are plenty of options that does not require years of schooling to make good money. Then without financial stress, build your social circle by finding hobbies that are healthy. Even playing some nerd games in person (like Dungeon & Dragons) with other nerds will be better than sitting at home absorbing government propaganda or reading about how the world is turning to crap.

Fix your environment. Are all your friends losers? No jobs, junkies, complainers... Might be time to go somewhere else. Move somewhere and find a local roommate so you have somebody to talk to and go out initially. Find hobbies that are healthy and hopefully ones that does not cost much to maintain (a bicycle or canoe you buy once).

I feel like a phycologist/psychiatrist won't help since in most cases, they're not going to help you get a job or start acting like an adult.
 
So your (completely unsolicited) advice is, what, that I just be a better Christian? Thank you and carry on.
His tone was unnecessarily judgmental and off putting. For example, you spoke of an ex-girlfriend but didn't specify that you are currently engaging in fornication or even that you ever did with her yet he assumed that. Still, he's right about his main point, that thoughts of suicide are satanic. Back when I was younger and an agnostic I was one of those guys "enjoying the decline" and not planning on ever having a family. I'd occasionally ask myself what I'd do when I got older and suppose I'd eventually end my life. This seemed rational at the time and not even particularly sad. Then God brought me to my wife's country, I met her, started going to church with her, and started believing again. Now we're married, we have children, and I've never been happier. I look back on my casually planned ideas of suicide from those times and it's clear that it came from Satan, and also very strange that it ever seemed like a good idea. Suicide would almost certainly have affected my chances for salvation in the next life, but it also would have caused me to miss out on the heaven on earth I live in now with my wife and children.

I don't want to get into his "Catholic or Orthodox" point of view that only one of those churches can help you but I can't help mentioning it. For a while before RVF 2.0 became explicitly Orthodox this was the default view, that only Catholics or Orthodox are legitimate Christians. It was always strange to me because they're hardly the same church and are actually completely at odds with each other on very important questions like accepting the Pope. So I'm not saying don't talk to a Catholic or Orthodox priest, just who knows and maybe that's not the only way.
 
Some people idealize death when they suffer chronic physical pain, the pain isn't life threatening though. Chronic pain is one of the hardest things to endure. For those suffering from it the answer is to pray, repent from any sin, find out everything you can about the causes of the pain, and create a support network.
 
Suicide is a grievous sin. Anyone who has been close to it knows how it doesn't only affect the suicider but everyone close to them, in permanent ways.

The amount of suicide is staggering and I can't help but chalk it up to the culture, which preaches "you are your own" and "do whatever you want." People have been conditioned to idolize their victimhood, which in their mind justifies them for any evil action they will take, including suicide. It is all clockwork in the culture of death.
 
Since this discussion has taken a theological turn I’ve been toying with the idea that highly emotional [unstable] states, including positive ones like infatuation, are actually satanic. I believe the perfect state is one where you’re in pure equilibrium with your environment and your input/output is of a stable, unwavering energy.

Does this idea have any Christian basis?

Yes, you are essentially describing what the Orthodox call the passions. The passions, encouraged and stirred by demons, attempt to seize us and overcome our will in order to induce us to sin. This is as opposed to the virtue of dispassion.
 
I think you make a good point here. I have been through a lot in recent years, and I have tended to have a negative attitude towards life and the nature of things. It's not to hard for me to think that life stinks. I try not to think this, and my life has been getting better so it's becoming easier to see it's not true.

I recently heard preaching on the importance of counting your blessings. The pastor said they did a study on people over 100, and found they all are grateful and glad to be alive every time they wake up and have another day of life. This attitude of gratefulness was a key factor in their longevity. On the other hand, he said unhappy, ungrateful people are likely to die early. I think this is very true.

I've recognized in my own life that I have to make a point to develop a better attitude, and to learn to count my blessings, or I'm going have a shorter life. I think this fits well with your point about "little suicides", of people giving up and coasting towards an early death. They are killing themselves slowly, which is like a form of suicide, even if they don't actually blow their brains out.
This is factual. A study I read found that complaining actually makes things worse for you, as by dwelling in bad times, you make your mood worse and the mood of others. It's rather obvious, embarrassingly so, that the opposite, thanking God for the good things in your life, thanking other people, being grateful, would let you dwell in good times, and uplift you instead of destroying you.

Exalt God, and God shall Exalt you.

If you are lonely, seek that which is lovely, and love shall find you alone.

 
When I was a teenager, I contemplated suicide. I had a bad childhood, and my parents did not take me to Church. Demons attacked me, and I would think of ending the pain which never seemed to end. Thankfully, the Lord had mercy on me and never let me hurt myself.

I continued to suffer depression all throughout my early twenties, and, of course, PUA just made things worse. In my mid-twenties I hit rock bottom after a year of getting more women than some men get in a lifetime, and I basically did nothing for an entire year afterwards except sit in my room, smoke weed, and play games while listening to music. The depression was intense and I couldn't muster the will to do anything. It was then I decided,

"If I'm going to do nothing, then it means I've given up on this world. Why not go back to Church, even though no one else goes? What is there to lose at this point?"

Within a year of doing so, the depression had lifted like a fog over a hazy morning, and has never returned ever since. I realized then that depression is not mental or emotional, but spiritual. Afterwards, I always recommended Church to everyone I met, and evangelized as much as I could, including to people like Roosh. I had no idea if I made any difference, but it sure seemed like as soon as I changed my life everything started to change around me.

Suicide is indeed one of the worst forms of blasphemy, and is therefore unforgivable. It's why Satan tries so hard to get people to murder themselves, because he knows the Church cannot save anyone who does so. You can read it directly on the Orthodox Dictionary: https://www.goarch.org/-/a-dictionary-of-orthodox-terminology-part-1

Blasphemy. Evil and reproachful language directed at God, the Virgin, the Saints, or sacred objects. Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is a mortal and unforgivable sin because it presumes that God's saving action in this particular case is impossible (cf. Matt. 12: 31).

Burial. (Gr. Taphe; Sl. Pogrebeniye). The act of interment of the dead body of one of the faithful in consecrated ground, according to the appropriate Orthodox rites and service of burial (Nekrosimos). The Church may deny an Orthodox burial to those who have committed a mortal sin such as blasphemy, suicide, denial of faith, or acceptance of cremation.

Naturally, not all forms of suicide are the same; a soldier who takes a cyanide pill to avoid horrible torture is not the same as someone who is perfectly healthy and decides to murder oneself. So there is discretion involved. But in general, with blasphemy, your best bet is to stay away, far away. You can't even get a decent burial if you commit suicide.

And for depression, the answer is God. A holy Church is the only way to rejuvenate a man's soul, the same way electricity turns on a light. True suicide is when a man's soul has died, and then the body follows.
 
How about this...


First Assisted Suicide Performed Inside an Evangelical Church in the USA​


At around noon on March 9, Betty Sanguin arrived at her church, Churchill Park United in Winnipeg, on a stretcher.

“The moment we rolled her in … and sat her up in her recliner, she lit up like a Christmas tree,” Lynda Sanguin-Colpitts, one of Sanguin’s daughters, recalls. “I hadn’t seen that much life in her eyes, so much joy [in a long time]. And honestly I think part of it was just being in the church.”

But this was no ordinary church service. Sanguin chose to die in the sanctuary that day.

Last spring, Sanguin was diagnosed with amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS). And when she decided to access medical assistance in dying (MAiD), she wanted the procedure to happen at her church.

Churchill Park United’s leadership team unanimously approved her request, and on March 9, the “crossing-over” ceremony took place in the church’s sanctuary. This was the first MAiD procedure to take place in a church in Manitoba.

Sanguin could no longer talk, so she used a whiteboard to communicate. When she was settled in her recliner, she wrote: “Welcome to my special day. I love you all so much.”

Sanguin’s children had worked hard to make the big space feel intimate. In the end, it was almost as if they were in her living room. There was a recliner for Sanguin to sit in, an area rug, a lamp, and a collection of family photos. Many of the quilts that Sanguin had made over the years were on display.

The chairs were set up in what Renée Sanguin, another one of her daughters, described as a “circle of care.” The six chairs immediately surrounding Betty were for her six children; the next tier was for husbands, wives and grandchildren; and the final tier was for friends.

During the ceremony, two of Sanguin’s grandchildren sang “Let Your Light Shine on Me” and everyone joined in for “How Great Thou Art.” Sanguin waved her arms along to the music. Sanguin had prepared a playlist for the event, which was mostly gospel music — a lifelong love of hers.

“There was an opportunity for every single person who wanted to to come and hold her hand and tell her they loved her and say goodbye,” says Renée. “It was very touching and very intimate.”

Afterwards, the minister of Churchill Park United, Rev. Dawn Rolke, offered a blessing. Each of Betty’s six children placed their hands on her as Rolke invited Sanguin to go in peace.

Eventually, everyone was asked to leave the sanctuary and Sanguin met with the MAiD team. After giving her final consent, the procedure took place. Sanguin’s six children returned to the sanctuary and stayed with her until the end.

“That part was harder,” said Sanguin-Colpitts. “We just stood around her and we cried, we laughed, we did everything.”

She and Renée describe their mom as a courageous, smart, and outspoken woman who felt called to serve others. She was very involved at Oak Table, which serves meals and provides hospitality for folks struggling in Winnipeg.

She was constantly asking questions and looking for answers — especially in her faith. Rolke recalled that during after-worship discussions, Sanguin asked the hard questions.

The decision to end her life was not an easy one for Sanguin. “She grappled with her faith … How do we know when our soul is ready? Will [her] soul be ready to cross over?” Renée says.

While much of the response to the crossing-over ceremony has been positive, there have been exceptions. Rolke has received messages telling her that Churchill Park United should close their doors and that they should be ashamed of their actions.
 
How about this...


First Assisted Suicide Performed Inside an Evangelical Church in the USA​


At around noon on March 9, Betty Sanguin arrived at her church, Churchill Park United in Winnipeg, on a stretcher.

“The moment we rolled her in … and sat her up in her recliner, she lit up like a Christmas tree,” Lynda Sanguin-Colpitts, one of Sanguin’s daughters, recalls. “I hadn’t seen that much life in her eyes, so much joy [in a long time]. And honestly I think part of it was just being in the church.”

But this was no ordinary church service. Sanguin chose to die in the sanctuary that day.

Last spring, Sanguin was diagnosed with amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS). And when she decided to access medical assistance in dying (MAiD), she wanted the procedure to happen at her church.

Churchill Park United’s leadership team unanimously approved her request, and on March 9, the “crossing-over” ceremony took place in the church’s sanctuary. This was the first MAiD procedure to take place in a church in Manitoba.

Sanguin could no longer talk, so she used a whiteboard to communicate. When she was settled in her recliner, she wrote: “Welcome to my special day. I love you all so much.”

Sanguin’s children had worked hard to make the big space feel intimate. In the end, it was almost as if they were in her living room. There was a recliner for Sanguin to sit in, an area rug, a lamp, and a collection of family photos. Many of the quilts that Sanguin had made over the years were on display.

The chairs were set up in what Renée Sanguin, another one of her daughters, described as a “circle of care.” The six chairs immediately surrounding Betty were for her six children; the next tier was for husbands, wives and grandchildren; and the final tier was for friends.

During the ceremony, two of Sanguin’s grandchildren sang “Let Your Light Shine on Me” and everyone joined in for “How Great Thou Art.” Sanguin waved her arms along to the music. Sanguin had prepared a playlist for the event, which was mostly gospel music — a lifelong love of hers.

“There was an opportunity for every single person who wanted to to come and hold her hand and tell her they loved her and say goodbye,” says Renée. “It was very touching and very intimate.”

Afterwards, the minister of Churchill Park United, Rev. Dawn Rolke, offered a blessing. Each of Betty’s six children placed their hands on her as Rolke invited Sanguin to go in peace.

Eventually, everyone was asked to leave the sanctuary and Sanguin met with the MAiD team. After giving her final consent, the procedure took place. Sanguin’s six children returned to the sanctuary and stayed with her until the end.

“That part was harder,” said Sanguin-Colpitts. “We just stood around her and we cried, we laughed, we did everything.”

She and Renée describe their mom as a courageous, smart, and outspoken woman who felt called to serve others. She was very involved at Oak Table, which serves meals and provides hospitality for folks struggling in Winnipeg.

She was constantly asking questions and looking for answers — especially in her faith. Rolke recalled that during after-worship discussions, Sanguin asked the hard questions.

The decision to end her life was not an easy one for Sanguin. “She grappled with her faith … How do we know when our soul is ready? Will [her] soul be ready to cross over?” Renée says.

While much of the response to the crossing-over ceremony has been positive, there have been exceptions. Rolke has received messages telling her that Churchill Park United should close their doors and that they should be ashamed of their actions.

Like putting down a rabbit dog.. in church. We should put down those 'doctors' and exile all those church leaders to Baffin island without any survival gear. What a mockery.
 
How about this...


First Assisted Suicide Performed Inside an Evangelical Church in the USA​



Their facebook website . Full of rainbow stuff, environmental stuff...


I suffer serious cognitive dissonance when I see these things. The picture of the woman who was euthanized looks like a happy grandmotherly woman, everyone looks happy there....

60E88A4E-2AB2-46E6-BEE4-2979BAACCEFD.webp

there are many many churches like this where they all believe they are being devout....

Lord have mercy. That's all I can say. I don't even know where to start with people like this

edit: I think technically this is in Canada, but still
 
How about this...


First Assisted Suicide Performed Inside an Evangelical Church in the USA​


At around noon on March 9, Betty Sanguin arrived at her church, Churchill Park United in Winnipeg, on a stretcher.

“The moment we rolled her in … and sat her up in her recliner, she lit up like a Christmas tree,” Lynda Sanguin-Colpitts, one of Sanguin’s daughters, recalls. “I hadn’t seen that much life in her eyes, so much joy [in a long time]. And honestly I think part of it was just being in the church.”

But this was no ordinary church service. Sanguin chose to die in the sanctuary that day.

Last spring, Sanguin was diagnosed with amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS). And when she decided to access medical assistance in dying (MAiD), she wanted the procedure to happen at her church.

Churchill Park United’s leadership team unanimously approved her request, and on March 9, the “crossing-over” ceremony took place in the church’s sanctuary. This was the first MAiD procedure to take place in a church in Manitoba.

Sanguin could no longer talk, so she used a whiteboard to communicate. When she was settled in her recliner, she wrote: “Welcome to my special day. I love you all so much.”

Sanguin’s children had worked hard to make the big space feel intimate. In the end, it was almost as if they were in her living room. There was a recliner for Sanguin to sit in, an area rug, a lamp, and a collection of family photos. Many of the quilts that Sanguin had made over the years were on display.

The chairs were set up in what Renée Sanguin, another one of her daughters, described as a “circle of care.” The six chairs immediately surrounding Betty were for her six children; the next tier was for husbands, wives and grandchildren; and the final tier was for friends.

During the ceremony, two of Sanguin’s grandchildren sang “Let Your Light Shine on Me” and everyone joined in for “How Great Thou Art.” Sanguin waved her arms along to the music. Sanguin had prepared a playlist for the event, which was mostly gospel music — a lifelong love of hers.

“There was an opportunity for every single person who wanted to to come and hold her hand and tell her they loved her and say goodbye,” says Renée. “It was very touching and very intimate.”

Afterwards, the minister of Churchill Park United, Rev. Dawn Rolke, offered a blessing. Each of Betty’s six children placed their hands on her as Rolke invited Sanguin to go in peace.

Eventually, everyone was asked to leave the sanctuary and Sanguin met with the MAiD team. After giving her final consent, the procedure took place. Sanguin’s six children returned to the sanctuary and stayed with her until the end.

“That part was harder,” said Sanguin-Colpitts. “We just stood around her and we cried, we laughed, we did everything.”

She and Renée describe their mom as a courageous, smart, and outspoken woman who felt called to serve others. She was very involved at Oak Table, which serves meals and provides hospitality for folks struggling in Winnipeg.

She was constantly asking questions and looking for answers — especially in her faith. Rolke recalled that during after-worship discussions, Sanguin asked the hard questions.

The decision to end her life was not an easy one for Sanguin. “She grappled with her faith … How do we know when our soul is ready? Will [her] soul be ready to cross over?” Renée says.

While much of the response to the crossing-over ceremony has been positive, there have been exceptions. Rolke has received messages telling her that Churchill Park United should close their doors and that they should be ashamed of their actions.
I do not believe in assisted suicide. The thought of taking your life into your own hands is ungodly. Many Christians throughout the ages have endured incredible suffering, they didn't off themselves to escape it. Assisted suicide is a lack of trust in God's providence and His justice. I was once talking with some "Christian" friends who advocated for assisted suicide, I was profoundly disappointed in them and could see that the spirit of the age, the culture of death, had infected them.

Assisted suicide is a sacrament of the culture of death.
 
What about refusing medical treatment or signing a 'do not resuscitate'? Is it suicide to prevent others from keeping you alive slightly longer? Isn't that taking your own life into your own hands, blaspheming God loudly and defiantly, since in His infinite wisdom he had you exist in a day and age of medical science? Are you condemned to hellfire and damnation for ever and ever because you chose not to live months longer, sometimes in torment?
 
What about refusing medical treatment or signing a 'do not resuscitate'? Is it suicide to prevent others from keeping you alive slightly longer? Isn't that taking your own life into your own hands, blaspheming God loudly and defiantly, since in His infinite wisdom he had you exist in a day and age of medical science? Are you condemned to hellfire and damnation for ever and ever because you chose not to live months longer, sometimes in torment?

The general rule is anything that is closer to being natural is better. The extremes away from what is natural usually approach something that is bad.
 
What about refusing medical treatment or signing a 'do not resuscitate'? Is it suicide to prevent others from keeping you alive slightly longer? Isn't that taking your own life into your own hands, blaspheming God loudly and defiantly, since in His infinite wisdom he had you exist in a day and age of medical science? Are you condemned to hellfire and damnation for ever and ever because you chose not to live months longer, sometimes in torment?
Let's say I am in hospice. When I die, whether the doctors are able to resuscitate me or not or I give them permission to put me to sleep, the time of my death is still appointed by the Lord. However, I will still be judged according to the disposition of my heart.

With that in mind, out of fear for God, I could not in good conscience request an assisted suicide or sign a DNR. I cannot help but see it as arrogance on the part of the creature.

I do not believe there is any agony that can compare to the glory that God has in store for those who trust and wait on Him.
 
I think a DNR is moral. They can go to great lengths to keep a person alive past all reason. For example, if the person is brain dead, but they have agreed to donate an organ, the medical people can keep them on a respirator and keep the brain-dead body alive until a call comes in for that particular organ. This can go on for many days, with the family held in limbo waiting for closure in the death of their loved one. Then when the call comes in for an organ, they unhook the respirator, wait for the patient to hurry up and finish dying, and harvest the organ. Some would say they even assist the process of dying for the sake of efficiency when the time comes.

This is an extreme example, but in the absence of a DNR, the doctors will often take extraordinary efforts to keep an old, sick, dying person going for a few extra hours or minutes of suffering.

The hospice approach is to keep them comfortable, including possibly large doses of morphine if that is the only way to keep them from pain. However, they let the patient die naturally and get it over with.
 
Back
Top