The Israel-Hamas War Lounge
- Thread starter Ember
- Start date
Looks very fake imho
The "bomb" even looks like a mini "fat boy"
Why not drop just a grenade? And didn't the soldiers hear the drone?
An
An idling vehicle would drown the drone out quite easily, as would a decent height. The drone is likely quite a ways up as well.
That isn't going to happen.
Rightly or wrongly ... We've smashed Wagner forces in Syria when theyve overextended themselves on behalf of Syrian .gov with air support.
The issue is Syria doesn't turn on their S300s... Because they want to avoid attacking US. Which is smart... But also means they are going to be vulnerable to US air and middle attack.
Maybe what you say is true, maybe it's not? My own mother can look me in the eye, lie to my face, and get away with it for weeks before I discover her falsehood. So how am I to determine what's true and what's false for Palestinians in Gaza? Have you been there recently? When was the last time you were in North Korea? With what authority do you speak? Do you have a horse in this race? Because I certainly don't have a dog in this fight and therefore I will not shill for neither jews nor Palestinian Muslims, regardless of their circumstances and life choices. Don't get me wrong, I think the lefty jews and trannies for Palestine fighting each other in the streets is hilarious, but ultimately this predictable war is one of the sadest things I've ever seen, and I wish it upon no one.
As a past member of RVF 1.0 who has been red pilled on the JQ and illegal immigration I'm well aware of the previous forum and the "difficulties" of modern travel. But my views of Israel and Palestine with regards to idiots who raise their children there goes back 30 years. So if 30 years isn't enough time to do some assessment of your misfortunate Gaza Strip geographical location, save a few bucks, abstain from having children, read a book on family planning, pack your bags, and walk to Tunisia (or wherever, doesn't have to be the USA) then you're not a victim, you're a willing participant. You stayed on purpose and never had any intention of leaving "your" land. This war was always coming, and you hung around for it. And yes, to deliberately put your children through an unnecessary, preventable trauma that risks their physical safety is the very definition of child abuse. People throughout history have overcome much greater obstacles then getting their families out of modern day Gaza (not now of course, now it's too late).
And yes, I "hide" behind a screen because I don't want to be killed or harassed for my opinions (because they're not that important to me), but I would gladly say all this to your face as I know you are a brother in Christ, and therefore most likely wouldn't cut off my head for offending you.
Blinken is currently for the third time in the Israel since October 7. He's touring a list of Arab countries too.
I think we are seeing an interesting US-Israel fissure surfacing, related to the fate of Gaza and the Gazans after Hamas is destroyed. Yesterday Blinken again hinted that he is looking at Abbas and the Palestinian Authorities (ie Fatah) in Ramallah as the next government in Gaza. Ie. Demolish Hamas and install some sort of puppet government in Gaza. Meanwhile the Israelis are doing very little effort to hide their desire to cleanse the entire Gaza Strip out and dump the Gazans over the border in Egypt.
An0dyne I quoted you here because a lot of forecasts will evolve around this issue. If the US can contain more radical Israeli plans than the potential for escalation is limited. If they can't then it's the opposite.
Even if Washington does it get its way there are other pain points, like the issue of Hamas and the Israel's heavy-handed methods. Contrary to (probably) most people in this board I do not believe that the current Biden Administration is interested in escalating this conflict to a regional level - they want to keep it contained to Gaza instead. Iran will want to keep Hamas in power but I am not sure how far they are prepared to go to do so. That in turn relates to the strength of US deterrence ie. the ability of Washington the stare the Iranian assets in the Middle East down.
I think we are seeing an interesting US-Israel fissure surfacing, related to the fate of Gaza and the Gazans after Hamas is destroyed. Yesterday Blinken again hinted that he is looking at Abbas and the Palestinian Authorities (ie Fatah) in Ramallah as the next government in Gaza. Ie. Demolish Hamas and install some sort of puppet government in Gaza. Meanwhile the Israelis are doing very little effort to hide their desire to cleanse the entire Gaza Strip out and dump the Gazans over the border in Egypt.
An0dyne I quoted you here because a lot of forecasts will evolve around this issue. If the US can contain more radical Israeli plans than the potential for escalation is limited. If they can't then it's the opposite.
Even if Washington does it get its way there are other pain points, like the issue of Hamas and the Israel's heavy-handed methods. Contrary to (probably) most people in this board I do not believe that the current Biden Administration is interested in escalating this conflict to a regional level - they want to keep it contained to Gaza instead. Iran will want to keep Hamas in power but I am not sure how far they are prepared to go to do so. That in turn relates to the strength of US deterrence ie. the ability of Washington the stare the Iranian assets in the Middle East down.
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Great Twitter thread on the current positions of the Muslim/Arab countries
(UAE): Continuing the policy of trying to become a Middle Eastern ‘Switzerland’. Influencers and religious leaders still being told to discourage boycotts and protests. Many key thinkers and analysts still believe the country is the victim of an Iranian-Muslim Brotherhood conspiracy to derail their economy and ties with Israel. To counter this pressure, Dr. Ali Rashid Al Nuaimi (Chairman of the UAE's Federal National Council’s Defense) has stated “The Abraham Accords are here to stay”. The country has focused on spearheading efforts in the UN in support of Palestine and is conducting food and monetary-aid drives. However, the country seems to be military aligning with Israel and fears the destruction of its key assets in a bigger war, hence willing to work with the USA in regard to air defense systems.
(Saudi Arabia): The country is still focused on its Vision 2030 program and has continued with numerous events, including Shakira’s Concert, despite calls to cancel these. Due to increased public pressure, MBS has relaxed measures and allowed mosques (including Mecca) to make prayers for the Palestinians, and has conducted very large monetary fund drives. Despite immense pressure to not do so, the country has informed the White House that it wants to continue its normalization process with Israel once the war ends. It also fears a larger war breaking out that puts its assets like oil plants, desalination plants, air, and seaports under fire, to this end it has intercepted Yemeni missiles shot towards Israel over its airspace and rejected a temporary truce with the Yemenis/Houthis. MBS is also alleged to have told Lindsey Graham that he does not support a direct war with Iran, but will not stand in America’s way if one were to break out. The country is still putting the bulk of its efforts in the UN.
(Bahrain): The country is continuing the policy of ‘do little and don’t be seen’, and is waiting for the war to be over. It was alleged that it had recalled its ambassador and severed (economic) ties with Israel, but Israeli officials state this is not true, and that ‘relations are stable’. To this effect, the Bahraini Finance minister has recently stated on the Abraham Accords “the region needs bridges that transcend religious & ethnic lines in order to ensure security & prosperity” - meaning the Accords are here to stay. There is still significant public pressure to support the Palestinians and to take action; as yet the country is involved in back-channel diplomacy efforts, but there is ambiguity on which direction these will head to.
(Qatar): The country is significantly involved in hostage negotiations and mediation between Hamas and the Israeli/USA government. It currently faces immense pressure from the USA to censure Al-Jazeera and to close Hamas’ office, however the Qataris are resisting and do not believe that either of these measures will be useful currently. There are protests and rallies within the country to support Palestine and government officials are also issuing condemnations of Israel’s military campaign. It is closely involved in diplomacy efforts, with its Foreign Minister visiting Amman for discussions with other Arab Partners and US Secretary Blinken. Government officials and analysts have signalled they are willing to support the Palestinians in whatever form may be required going forward.
(Oman): The country is trying to balance both internal and external pressures. There have been significant large protests and rallies in support of Palestine, and the country has closed its airspace to Israeli flights (El-Al). It has also labelled Israel’s actions ‘war crimes’ and demanded an international investigation. However, it is working alongside the UAE to implement a broad set of policies that will not jeopardize its normalization plans with Israel.
(Kuwait): One of the unique exceptions in the Middle East, the country is in full support of the Palestinian Cause. It has organized large rallies in support of the Palestinians and is providing medical aid, and has promised to provide financial, diplomatic and other support to the Palestinians. The country is known for its rejection of the Abraham Accords, and recently Kuwaiti MP Abdul Karim has publicly criticized other Arab rulers for not supporting the Palestinians and generally adopting a weak stance to the conflict.
(Jordan): The country has received much criticism for its double-sided policies. The King and Queen of Jordan have publicly condemned Israel and denounced plans to move Gazans to the Sinai desert. Initially there were widespread demonstrations within the country, but these are now being prevented. The country has recalled its ambassador to Israel but has refused to sever ties. Additionally, it has permitted the installation of American air defense systems and the establishment of an American air bridge to Israel. It has also informed Yemen and other actors that it will not allow the use of its airspace for an attack on Israel. However, the country is home to many Palestinians and there is growing discontent between the public and government officials.
(Morocco): The country is committed to preserving its normalization with Israel by any means. There is growing public anger at the King and many have condemned the country’s foreign policy. Initially large protests in support of Palestine had occurred, but these were quickly banned, however in defiance larger protests in cities such as Rabat were held. The country is a wild card, though it is providing support to Palestinians in the UN there is not much public action occurring and many analysts are not sure if the country can take action given the King’s loyalties.
(Algeria): At the start of the conflict the country issued a condemnation of Israel but largely adopted a ‘doesn't concern me policy’. The government was busy in domestic issues and the planting of trees. However, in recent days, momentum has grown within the government, and it has issued condemnations of Israel’s military actions. The Algerian Parliament has also unanimously voted to provide President Tebboune with the authority to go to war with Israel, however this is non-binding and seen by many analysts as a cosmetic measure to quell domestic unrest at the government’s inaction.
(Libya): The country has seen significant wide-spread demonstrations in support of Palestine. The situation is complex, as there are striking differences between government factions. If you recall, the foreign minister was suspended after an ‘illegal’ meeting with Israeli officials a few months ago. However, there is a growing sentiment that the country cannot stand idly by; the Libyan High Council of State has called for the severing of relations with countries that support Israel's bombardment, and the country has said it is willing to provide military support in case of a regional war.
(Tunisia): The country has condemned Israel’s actions and there have been wide-scale demonstrations in support of Palestine. The country prior to the conflict had been debating in parliament on a bill that would criminalize the normalization of economic and political ties with Israel (a High-Treason charge), however there is government pushback to modify it to allow for future relations and a vote on the bill was postponed.
(Turkey): Erdoğan has held large rallies in support of Palestinians, and true to his political style, has issued harsh condemnations of Israel and promised to ‘declare the state a war criminal’. The country has recently recalled its ambassador to Israel, but refused to sever ties. Many analyst state that local elections are coming up in the country and Erdoğan is appealing to his voter base. Turkey is still providing oil and food to Israel and is allowing the transfer of other goods (including from Azerbaijan). Many say Erdoğan is using the moment to force the USA into negotiations on other issues (Syria, F-35s etc.) to keep the country outside a war.
(Egypt): The country is in a challenging position, initially it had seen widespread demonstration’s in support of Palestine, but fearing a Tahrir 2.0 the government crackdown on protests. At the start of the conflict, there was heavy pressure by the US and Israelis on Egypt to take in over a million refugees from Gaza, however the government adamantly refused. Israel has also offered to pay off the entirety of Egypt’s debt (likely with American money) in return for taking refugees. The country is in intense negotiations to allow more aid in to Gaza via the Rafah border, and has privately reprimanded US officials for not doing everything they can to resolve the humanitarian crisis. The government understands it is at a cross road, it does not want to take refugees as it perceives this as ethnic cleansing by Israel and a security threat, but knows Israel’s military strategy will lead to this outcome. The Egyptian PM has also stated the country is 'prepared to sacrifice millions of lives to ensure that no-one encroaches on its territory’. Analysts have said that there is a possibility that if pushed to the brink, Egypt may have to militarily challenge Israel in order to preserve its own strategic interests.
(Lebanon/Hezbollah): In a recent speech, Sayyed Nasrallah stated the Hezbollah is at war with Israel since the 8th of October and that the group will increase its attacks and go to a full-spectrum war with Israel if either Lebanon is attack or Hamas faces defeat in Gaza; it has also threatened American naval assets in the region. Nasrallah is trying to manage a very complex situation, the Lebanese government and other Arab states have demanded it stops escalation and other groups such as the Druze are creating domestic challenges for it, but Nasrallah understands that inaction at this stage would dismantle the ‘Axis of Resistance’ deterrence. The group has recently used more advanced weapons such as drones and surface-to-surface missiles, which indicates escalations will not stop. The Lebanese government has also prepared wartime contingencies and is preparing for war. There is a level of co-ordination with Iran and allegedly Iranian fighters and military personnel are already stationed within the country.
(Iran/Iraq/Yemen/Syria): I am putting these countries together as the military and diplomatic strategy between them is more-or-less aligned. Iran is the nexus of the ‘Axis of Resistance’, it is working diplomatically to avoid a war and has met with the FM of many Arab states to co-ordinate actions. It is implementing a decade's long policy to strategically defeat the US in the region (taking out CENTCOM). To this end, there have been increasing attacks on American military bases from Iraqi groups, and threats that more ‘severe’ attacks are to come. Yemen (Houthis) are fully engaged in the war and have fired drones and ballistic missiles at Israel (Eilat). Syrian factions have also attacked Israel via the Golan, and also said more attacks are to come. A large number of operators from these countries are gathering around their respective borders and staging areas in case a bigger war breaks out. It is evidently clear that they will act as a unit and are preparing the battleground for all options.
(Malaysia/Indonesia): The countries have seen significant protests in support of Palestine, and the governments are providing emergency aid and diplomatic support in the UN. There is continuous work to separate their economies from the US e.g., along with Thailand they have signed a tripartite deal to settle bilateral trade in their own currencies.
Additional Mention: (Bolivia/Honduras/Chile/Colombia): These countries have either recalled their ambassador to Israel or have severed ties, and have received significant admiration for doing so. Other things to note: 1. It is important to remind you again that there is FULL public support in these countries for Palestine, and many are calling for more significant action. 2. I will reserve military analysis for others, but it seems the region is headed towards a larger war. Despite what Nasrallah or others may publicly say, escalations will continue and until Israel stops its military adventure there is ‘no going back for anyone’. As always, please like, share, discuss, or hate on me and say that I am wrong in the comments
(UAE): Continuing the policy of trying to become a Middle Eastern ‘Switzerland’. Influencers and religious leaders still being told to discourage boycotts and protests. Many key thinkers and analysts still believe the country is the victim of an Iranian-Muslim Brotherhood conspiracy to derail their economy and ties with Israel. To counter this pressure, Dr. Ali Rashid Al Nuaimi (Chairman of the UAE's Federal National Council’s Defense) has stated “The Abraham Accords are here to stay”. The country has focused on spearheading efforts in the UN in support of Palestine and is conducting food and monetary-aid drives. However, the country seems to be military aligning with Israel and fears the destruction of its key assets in a bigger war, hence willing to work with the USA in regard to air defense systems.
(Saudi Arabia): The country is still focused on its Vision 2030 program and has continued with numerous events, including Shakira’s Concert, despite calls to cancel these. Due to increased public pressure, MBS has relaxed measures and allowed mosques (including Mecca) to make prayers for the Palestinians, and has conducted very large monetary fund drives. Despite immense pressure to not do so, the country has informed the White House that it wants to continue its normalization process with Israel once the war ends. It also fears a larger war breaking out that puts its assets like oil plants, desalination plants, air, and seaports under fire, to this end it has intercepted Yemeni missiles shot towards Israel over its airspace and rejected a temporary truce with the Yemenis/Houthis. MBS is also alleged to have told Lindsey Graham that he does not support a direct war with Iran, but will not stand in America’s way if one were to break out. The country is still putting the bulk of its efforts in the UN.
(Bahrain): The country is continuing the policy of ‘do little and don’t be seen’, and is waiting for the war to be over. It was alleged that it had recalled its ambassador and severed (economic) ties with Israel, but Israeli officials state this is not true, and that ‘relations are stable’. To this effect, the Bahraini Finance minister has recently stated on the Abraham Accords “the region needs bridges that transcend religious & ethnic lines in order to ensure security & prosperity” - meaning the Accords are here to stay. There is still significant public pressure to support the Palestinians and to take action; as yet the country is involved in back-channel diplomacy efforts, but there is ambiguity on which direction these will head to.
(Qatar): The country is significantly involved in hostage negotiations and mediation between Hamas and the Israeli/USA government. It currently faces immense pressure from the USA to censure Al-Jazeera and to close Hamas’ office, however the Qataris are resisting and do not believe that either of these measures will be useful currently. There are protests and rallies within the country to support Palestine and government officials are also issuing condemnations of Israel’s military campaign. It is closely involved in diplomacy efforts, with its Foreign Minister visiting Amman for discussions with other Arab Partners and US Secretary Blinken. Government officials and analysts have signalled they are willing to support the Palestinians in whatever form may be required going forward.
(Oman): The country is trying to balance both internal and external pressures. There have been significant large protests and rallies in support of Palestine, and the country has closed its airspace to Israeli flights (El-Al). It has also labelled Israel’s actions ‘war crimes’ and demanded an international investigation. However, it is working alongside the UAE to implement a broad set of policies that will not jeopardize its normalization plans with Israel.
(Kuwait): One of the unique exceptions in the Middle East, the country is in full support of the Palestinian Cause. It has organized large rallies in support of the Palestinians and is providing medical aid, and has promised to provide financial, diplomatic and other support to the Palestinians. The country is known for its rejection of the Abraham Accords, and recently Kuwaiti MP Abdul Karim has publicly criticized other Arab rulers for not supporting the Palestinians and generally adopting a weak stance to the conflict.
(Jordan): The country has received much criticism for its double-sided policies. The King and Queen of Jordan have publicly condemned Israel and denounced plans to move Gazans to the Sinai desert. Initially there were widespread demonstrations within the country, but these are now being prevented. The country has recalled its ambassador to Israel but has refused to sever ties. Additionally, it has permitted the installation of American air defense systems and the establishment of an American air bridge to Israel. It has also informed Yemen and other actors that it will not allow the use of its airspace for an attack on Israel. However, the country is home to many Palestinians and there is growing discontent between the public and government officials.
(Morocco): The country is committed to preserving its normalization with Israel by any means. There is growing public anger at the King and many have condemned the country’s foreign policy. Initially large protests in support of Palestine had occurred, but these were quickly banned, however in defiance larger protests in cities such as Rabat were held. The country is a wild card, though it is providing support to Palestinians in the UN there is not much public action occurring and many analysts are not sure if the country can take action given the King’s loyalties.
(Algeria): At the start of the conflict the country issued a condemnation of Israel but largely adopted a ‘doesn't concern me policy’. The government was busy in domestic issues and the planting of trees. However, in recent days, momentum has grown within the government, and it has issued condemnations of Israel’s military actions. The Algerian Parliament has also unanimously voted to provide President Tebboune with the authority to go to war with Israel, however this is non-binding and seen by many analysts as a cosmetic measure to quell domestic unrest at the government’s inaction.
(Libya): The country has seen significant wide-spread demonstrations in support of Palestine. The situation is complex, as there are striking differences between government factions. If you recall, the foreign minister was suspended after an ‘illegal’ meeting with Israeli officials a few months ago. However, there is a growing sentiment that the country cannot stand idly by; the Libyan High Council of State has called for the severing of relations with countries that support Israel's bombardment, and the country has said it is willing to provide military support in case of a regional war.
(Tunisia): The country has condemned Israel’s actions and there have been wide-scale demonstrations in support of Palestine. The country prior to the conflict had been debating in parliament on a bill that would criminalize the normalization of economic and political ties with Israel (a High-Treason charge), however there is government pushback to modify it to allow for future relations and a vote on the bill was postponed.
(Turkey): Erdoğan has held large rallies in support of Palestinians, and true to his political style, has issued harsh condemnations of Israel and promised to ‘declare the state a war criminal’. The country has recently recalled its ambassador to Israel, but refused to sever ties. Many analyst state that local elections are coming up in the country and Erdoğan is appealing to his voter base. Turkey is still providing oil and food to Israel and is allowing the transfer of other goods (including from Azerbaijan). Many say Erdoğan is using the moment to force the USA into negotiations on other issues (Syria, F-35s etc.) to keep the country outside a war.
(Egypt): The country is in a challenging position, initially it had seen widespread demonstration’s in support of Palestine, but fearing a Tahrir 2.0 the government crackdown on protests. At the start of the conflict, there was heavy pressure by the US and Israelis on Egypt to take in over a million refugees from Gaza, however the government adamantly refused. Israel has also offered to pay off the entirety of Egypt’s debt (likely with American money) in return for taking refugees. The country is in intense negotiations to allow more aid in to Gaza via the Rafah border, and has privately reprimanded US officials for not doing everything they can to resolve the humanitarian crisis. The government understands it is at a cross road, it does not want to take refugees as it perceives this as ethnic cleansing by Israel and a security threat, but knows Israel’s military strategy will lead to this outcome. The Egyptian PM has also stated the country is 'prepared to sacrifice millions of lives to ensure that no-one encroaches on its territory’. Analysts have said that there is a possibility that if pushed to the brink, Egypt may have to militarily challenge Israel in order to preserve its own strategic interests.
(Lebanon/Hezbollah): In a recent speech, Sayyed Nasrallah stated the Hezbollah is at war with Israel since the 8th of October and that the group will increase its attacks and go to a full-spectrum war with Israel if either Lebanon is attack or Hamas faces defeat in Gaza; it has also threatened American naval assets in the region. Nasrallah is trying to manage a very complex situation, the Lebanese government and other Arab states have demanded it stops escalation and other groups such as the Druze are creating domestic challenges for it, but Nasrallah understands that inaction at this stage would dismantle the ‘Axis of Resistance’ deterrence. The group has recently used more advanced weapons such as drones and surface-to-surface missiles, which indicates escalations will not stop. The Lebanese government has also prepared wartime contingencies and is preparing for war. There is a level of co-ordination with Iran and allegedly Iranian fighters and military personnel are already stationed within the country.
(Iran/Iraq/Yemen/Syria): I am putting these countries together as the military and diplomatic strategy between them is more-or-less aligned. Iran is the nexus of the ‘Axis of Resistance’, it is working diplomatically to avoid a war and has met with the FM of many Arab states to co-ordinate actions. It is implementing a decade's long policy to strategically defeat the US in the region (taking out CENTCOM). To this end, there have been increasing attacks on American military bases from Iraqi groups, and threats that more ‘severe’ attacks are to come. Yemen (Houthis) are fully engaged in the war and have fired drones and ballistic missiles at Israel (Eilat). Syrian factions have also attacked Israel via the Golan, and also said more attacks are to come. A large number of operators from these countries are gathering around their respective borders and staging areas in case a bigger war breaks out. It is evidently clear that they will act as a unit and are preparing the battleground for all options.
(Malaysia/Indonesia): The countries have seen significant protests in support of Palestine, and the governments are providing emergency aid and diplomatic support in the UN. There is continuous work to separate their economies from the US e.g., along with Thailand they have signed a tripartite deal to settle bilateral trade in their own currencies.
Additional Mention: (Bolivia/Honduras/Chile/Colombia): These countries have either recalled their ambassador to Israel or have severed ties, and have received significant admiration for doing so. Other things to note: 1. It is important to remind you again that there is FULL public support in these countries for Palestine, and many are calling for more significant action. 2. I will reserve military analysis for others, but it seems the region is headed towards a larger war. Despite what Nasrallah or others may publicly say, escalations will continue and until Israel stops its military adventure there is ‘no going back for anyone’. As always, please like, share, discuss, or hate on me and say that I am wrong in the comments
"News" on the Florida front in the war, as reported by Andrew Anglin:
This is great!
I'm going to go around saying that "Unity is our Strength!" And when they get upset at this as it's counter to their programming, I'm going to say that this is an Israeli slogan and that they are "Anti-semitic"!
And watch their heads roll.
It's about 100m up judging from the time travelled to the ground, so somewhat visible if they looked up. These soldiers however are wearing helmets, which restrict their vision upwards. They also had no idea that they could be droned.
Right now I'm wondering just how extensive the tunnel network under Gaza really is. If Hamas has been preparing for this war for 20+ years with a massive tunnel network capable of holding millions underneath thousands of miles of a subterranean fortress, then this Gaza siege will last for years and perhaps longer than a decade.
There could be tens of thousands of entrances, many of them obscured by rubble from the bombing campaigns, which makes it impossible to find them without getting killed by guerilla fighters. Combined with Hamas drones, explosives, the IDF will be getting picked off every single day. It sounds like it will be impossible to avoid casualties, and if the IDF is merely trading 1 soldier for even 5 Hamas, then Israel loses because they do not have near enough numbers to sustain those kinds of losses like Muslims do.
Never in the history of warfare have I learned about a vast underground city fortress. The closest analogy would be fantasy dwarves, haha. Of course, it could all be overblown and the tunnel network may be marginal. But, why would Hamas attack? It seems to me they wanted to bait Israel into attacking, which means they've been preparing for this.
The Hamas under-fortress may be one of the largest undertakings of it's kind in the history of humanity, some kind of crazy adaptation to being bombed by Israel for over 50+ years. How much have Hamas prepared for this? Do they have tunnels into Egypt for more supplies to be smuggled into the city? Do they have tunnels outside of Gaza into Israel to launch flanking attacks or terrorist attacks? Do they have a massive drainage system into the Mediterranean to prevent flooding?
If there is a truly massive underground city then the IDF will be playing Islamic whack-a-mole for years and years. It will be extremely costly and the death toll of the IDF could easily reach 100k+ on a long enough timeline.
This is quite unlike anything I've learned about before so if anyone has more knowledge on these tunnels I'd be happy to learn more. But it seems like Hamas has been hiding their real plans up until this point, so I'm not sure how anyone could know.
Even the Wikipedia article has scant details, but they have found one tunnel before in 2014 that was 62 miles long!!
How would modern armies even fight this kind of a fortress? I'm not sure modern armies are equipped to crack something like this open. No wonder the Israelis are ready to use nukes.
There could be tens of thousands of entrances, many of them obscured by rubble from the bombing campaigns, which makes it impossible to find them without getting killed by guerilla fighters. Combined with Hamas drones, explosives, the IDF will be getting picked off every single day. It sounds like it will be impossible to avoid casualties, and if the IDF is merely trading 1 soldier for even 5 Hamas, then Israel loses because they do not have near enough numbers to sustain those kinds of losses like Muslims do.
Never in the history of warfare have I learned about a vast underground city fortress. The closest analogy would be fantasy dwarves, haha. Of course, it could all be overblown and the tunnel network may be marginal. But, why would Hamas attack? It seems to me they wanted to bait Israel into attacking, which means they've been preparing for this.
The Hamas under-fortress may be one of the largest undertakings of it's kind in the history of humanity, some kind of crazy adaptation to being bombed by Israel for over 50+ years. How much have Hamas prepared for this? Do they have tunnels into Egypt for more supplies to be smuggled into the city? Do they have tunnels outside of Gaza into Israel to launch flanking attacks or terrorist attacks? Do they have a massive drainage system into the Mediterranean to prevent flooding?
If there is a truly massive underground city then the IDF will be playing Islamic whack-a-mole for years and years. It will be extremely costly and the death toll of the IDF could easily reach 100k+ on a long enough timeline.
This is quite unlike anything I've learned about before so if anyone has more knowledge on these tunnels I'd be happy to learn more. But it seems like Hamas has been hiding their real plans up until this point, so I'm not sure how anyone could know.
Even the Wikipedia article has scant details, but they have found one tunnel before in 2014 that was 62 miles long!!
How would modern armies even fight this kind of a fortress? I'm not sure modern armies are equipped to crack something like this open. No wonder the Israelis are ready to use nukes.
The USA is completely and totally run by Jews. Always has been (for decades anyway).
These insane positions of going easy on black crime, fomenting wars across the globe, supporting tranny kids, ignoring natural disasters, riling up the Chinese, ignoring genocide, etc. obviously don't come from the brain of Joe "We have no choice but to take [Superpredator blacks] out of society" Biden. That's the greatest thing about the Biden presidency--it is revealing the truth about how our government works.
Seriously, find me a cabinet post-JFK that was not run by Jews.
From "The Biden Bill (1993)":
Biden added that he didn’t care “why someone is a malefactor in society” and that criminals needed to be “away from my mother, your husband, our families.”
There are a few posts referring to Hamas as a Jewish controlled entity.
This is partly true. Hamas was created by Nutty Yahoo and the Israeli government who forced out the Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO), who you rarely hear about any more.
But saying Hamas is controlled by Israel is like saying the USA controls "Al Queda" in 2023.
Sure, the USA created ISIS/Al Q, and controlled it for a while, but at this point it is an organization of militants who are defined by their opposition to western interference and democracy.
Likewise with Hamas, Israel may have put some shills in and controlled it for a few years, but you can't just murder people willy nilly for years in an open concentration camp and expect to maintain control over your subjects through a fake controlled opposition.
Palestinians be like "Look at Us. We Hamas Now."
This is partly true. Hamas was created by Nutty Yahoo and the Israeli government who forced out the Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO), who you rarely hear about any more.
But saying Hamas is controlled by Israel is like saying the USA controls "Al Queda" in 2023.
Sure, the USA created ISIS/Al Q, and controlled it for a while, but at this point it is an organization of militants who are defined by their opposition to western interference and democracy.
Likewise with Hamas, Israel may have put some shills in and controlled it for a few years, but you can't just murder people willy nilly for years in an open concentration camp and expect to maintain control over your subjects through a fake controlled opposition.
Palestinians be like "Look at Us. We Hamas Now."
I agree, but I guess to me it seems like it's becoming more overt lately. I even see where DeSantis in Florida seems to be putting the boot down on any questioning of Israeli policy. Have they secured enough power to start coming out of the shadows and flex that power a bit for all to see?
Here is a post from the investigative journalist Seymour Hersh:
"The Israeli military and political leadership are beginning to see the results of a carefully planned end game that will be murderous—there is no other word for it—to the members of the Hamas military now being hunted down in the tunnels and rubble of Gaza City. The orders are to shoot to kill on sight. The collapse of the military wing of Hamas has given the group’s political leadership, who claim to have not been directly involved in the planning for the October 7 massacre, a chance to demonstrate their good will and save their own lives by arranging for Israeli hostages to be transferred to a basement in the besieged al-Shifa hospital, long a stronghold of Hamas. Some Israeli officials fear that time is running out because it’s not known how long the air in the tunnels will be breathable. ..."
This raises the question of the air in the tunnels. Apparently, perhaps because of all the dust from the bombs, the air in the tunnels is becoming unbreathable.
They secured the power needed sometime after the mid 1960's and since then it has been a slow and managed decline.
But they made the same mistake they always make. They got sloppy, they got arrogant and they lost control. Their third world pets are either turning on them directly, or indirectly by not being able to maintain a livable society. People are starting to notice, they are starting to talk, and the only response is more censorship and more hypocrisy, which just begats more people noticing.
Their elected puppets are drug addicts, sexual deviants and low IQ morons. They can't trust them to do what is right, so they are now forced to do it themselves, which they do not want to be doing. They are taking the mask off, not out of power, but out of desperation. They are losing control and they know it and they are going into panic mode.
There's nothing new in underground strongholds: tunnels of Iwo Jima, Cu Chi tunnel network in Vietnam, Tora Bora caves in Afghanistan - to name just a few from recent history. And, of course, mines and industrial "tombs" of present day war in ukraine. The thing that makes Hamas tunnels unique, is their location under a dense urban area, which takes, the already difficult, urban warfare to another level.
Yes, there were (or still are) tunnels going into Egypt, that were used for years to smuggle weapons, munitions, etc. into the Strip. The Israelis claim they destroyed those tunnels in the first few days, but whether they were able to completely destroy them, just shut them down temporarily, or even locate all of them is open question.
They used to have many of those, to send out infiltration teams, launch raids against Israeli border forces, and kidnap soldiers (the famous Gilad Shalit case) in the past. But the Israelis recognized the threat and begun to search and destroy them and, eventually, they installed an underground border wall to prevent any further incursions - at least in theory, but in practice there's nothing they can do to prevent them - Hamas can always dig another tunnel under the concrete barrier, and as long as they don't use any power tools they can avoid triggering the sensors. It's a dangerous job, and the capacity of those "hand made" tunnels is low, but some of them could still be there - according to some sources, assault tunnels have been used on October 7. However the remaining cross border tunnels are of little value at this stage, there's not much that a small team could do to the Israeli forces in the deep rear - any acts of sabotage against fuel and ammo dumps can be achieved using drones - and the entire Gaza envelope is a closed military zone so there's little to no chance for deep terror raids. On the other hand, tunnels inside the Gaza Strip that lead behind the Israeli strike forces, are of great value - they allow Hamas to strike at the IDF's rear units (that Merkava that was taken out at point blank range was left without any infantry cover in a "safe" zone on fire support duty).
They won't last that long. As impressive as those tunnels are, they are facing two major problems.
First is their quality. Those tunnels were built without the use of specialised engineering equipment, since the Israeli blockade prevented their transfer, Hamas could only use jackhammers, drills, shovels. Same goes for the quality of building materials - You think that they were allowed to import high grade concrete into Gaza ? And what's the condition of those tunnels after a month of heavy bombardment? How many tunnels collapsed, how many underground chambers were hit directly with bunker busters, how many shafts were burried under the rubble ?
The second is sustainability. How much food, water and fuel they have in storage ? What about munitions ? Diesel generators and spare parts for them, and what about exhaust fumes? With all those buildings above, razed to the ground by the Israelis, even access to breathable air is in question.
We burned the Japanese on Iwo Jima with napalm, used a combination of carpet bombings and an infantry combing operations against the Vietnamese but it failed. Soviets took Tora Bora by assault, we did it with heavy bombardment.
What will the Israelis do ?
For starters they need to locate and "cut" the main underground lines that connect the, besieged, northern part of the Strip with the south - because at this moment Hamas still has freedom to move resources and fighters from one end of the Strip to the other. When, or if, it's done, they will go to work on the northern undergound. How ?
- With the main supply tunnels sealed, they could simply besiege those Hamas fighters that are trapped in the north - but it's unlikely, time is not on the Israeli side, they lose western support with every atrocity they commit.
- Raze the entire city of Gaza to the ground, collapse as many tunnels as possible and burry Hamas alive under the rubble.
- Chemical warfare. Could be lethal nerve agents, could be non-lethal smoke.
- Flush the tunnels with water. Back in 73, during the Yom Kippur war, Egyptians used industrial grade water pumps to breach Israeli lines along the Suez Canal, so it's not as crazy as it sounds.
- Combing operation. Once the ground forces secure an area above ground, they will locate the main communication tunnels and collapse them to cut off the block from the rest of the network. Afterwards they will move below (preceded by grenades) to clear the isolated section. Then move on to another city block: secure the surface, isolate local tunnels from the network, clear them. Rinse and repeat, one city block after another.
- Any combination of the above.
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