The Destruction of Modern Women

[Blade Runner]

If by "experience" you mean fornication, you acknowledge it's sinfulness, but you deem it as helpful?

No, I'm saying it fits into the universal categorization of things. It is self evident that what I've said is true, and it can be tested, and proven as such. You're forgetting the main point here because you are focusing on single, moral issues. That main point is that there are consequences to certain behaviors, and some behaviors for certain people, are far more dire. If you still have trouble imagining this, just think about sins. Aren't certain sins more grievous and far reaching than others? Yes. Should we commit any sin, or not care about sins, because of this fact? No.

 

[Shaquilleoatmeal]

If by "experience" you mean fornication, you acknowledge it's sinfulness, but you deem it as helpful?

Didn't Roosh dedicate his life to fornication, only to find that it wasn't very helpful to him?

At what point will you acknowledge male and female fornication aren’t the same?

 

[GodfatherPartTwo]

At what point will you acknowledge male and female fornication aren’t the same?

"Aren't the same" as in one is sinful and another isn't? Never. Doesn't even make sense to say fornication is sinful for women but not for men. Who are the men supposed to fornicate with?

"Aren't the same" as in women have more to lose from fornication? Then I already do.

Seems like people are looking at this from a utilitarian lens, which is fine, but as a Christian, I have to look at it from a Christian lens above all else, not only utilitarian.

 

[Australia Sucks]

"Aren't the same" as in one is sinful and another isn't? Never. Doesn't even make sense to say fornication is sinful for women but not for men. Who are the men supposed to fornicate with?

"Aren't the same" as in women have more to lose from fornication? Then I already do.

Seems like people are looking at this from a utilitarian lens, which is fine, but as a Christian, I have to look at it from a Christian lens above all else, not only utilitarian.

To a large extent male fornication is the fault of women firstly because women are the gatekeepers to sex and if they stopped giving up their vaginas then men wouldn't be able to fornicate as easily and secondly if women got married whilst young and virgin a lot less men would even bother with sleeping around. But as things stand currently very few women are worthy of serious commitment so most men either have the realistic options of fornicating or becoming a monk. Very few men have the mental wiring or fortitude and self control to be a monk so mass fornication is the result of our current society. In summary if women weren't so awful a lot less men would be fornicating.

 

[Australia Sucks]

Given the cycles of human history I feel like it is conceivable that at some point in the future (admittedly a long time from now) you will see the pendulum swing so far in the other direction in society that their will be great retribution upon women and that women will be oppressed so harshly that the Taliban will look liberal by comparison.

 

[Shaquilleoatmeal]

Given the cycles of human history I feel like it is conceivable that at some point in the future (admittedly a long time from now) you will see the pendulum swing so far in the other direction in society that their will be great retribution upon women and that women will be oppressed so harshly that the Taliban will look liberal by comparison.

The great replacement is “succeeding” in Europe so it certainly possible.

 

[Blade Runner]

In summary if women weren't so awful a lot less men would be fornicating.

GodFather might in turn just blame "men" but ironically again the problem becomes that the men to blame aren't the ones in question here.

The ideal of course is women and men marrying early and both virgins but as Aussie says we are so far from this reality, it's fairly ridiculous. You can be against "fornication" principally but realize that when women are lower value than ever and no one gets married, do you expect that a large portion of an increasingly less religious populace will go monk mode?

I suspect GF agrees that few women are worthy of serious commitment, so what the conversation keeps coming back to is what does one recommend? We're just trying to be pragmatic or honest about a really bad situation for most men while the hardliners here are closer to the boomers and older, who just don't care because it doesn't affect them. Or they say something like "Oh, you can find someone" when that someone is 35+ and not that attractive, while they married a woman in her early 20s. Newsflash, that isn't helpful either.

 

[GodfatherPartTwo]

To a large extent male fornication is the fault of women firstly because women are the gatekeepers to sex and if they stopped giving up their vaginas then men wouldn't be able to fornicate as easily and secondly if women got married whilst young and virgin a lot less men would even bother with sleeping around.

I'll put it this way, just because Eve is offering you the apple doesn't mean you have to bite. As for the broader societal implications that you're raising, that's just the spirit of the age. Both men and women are placing sexual satisfaction above all else. The result is the degradation of the family (and society by extension), the increased rise of queer sexuality, and more symptoms.

But as things stand currently very few women are worthy of serious commitment so most men either have the realistic options of fornicating or becoming a monk. Very few men have the mental wiring or fortitude and self control to be a monk so mass fornication is the result of our current society. In summary if women weren't so awful a lot less men would be fornicating.

It is difficult, but not impossible. There are still women out there who would make for a fine wife.

 

[Blade Runner]

I'll put it this way, just because Eve is offering you the apple doesn't mean you have to bite. As for the broader societal implications that you're raising, that's just the spirit of the age. Both men and women are placing sexual satisfaction above all else. The result is the degradation of the family (and society by extension), the increased rise of queer sexuality, and more symptoms.

You are correct. The problem is that we aren't part of small communities that help, promote or support marriage and disincent divorce. As such, whether it is our fault or not, we've inherited a situation where most options are bad ones. Marriage in the west, given laws, economic hardships, women's attitudes and age, etc is essentially done: stick a fork in it.

If most of your hope lies in going overseas for something reasonable, that means first and foremost, population is going down until greater calamity befalls us.

 

[GodfatherPartTwo]

You are correct. The problem is that we aren't part of small communities that help, promote or support marriage and disincent divorce. As such, whether it is our fault or not, we've inherited a situation where most options are bad ones. Marriage in the west, given laws, economic hardships, women's attitudes and age, etc is essentially done: stick a fork in it.

If most of your hope lies in going overseas for something reasonable, that means first and foremost, population is going down until greater calamity befalls us.

This is an area where the Church needs to improve. The purity culture spirit still remains in the Church and makes it harder to start dating a woman in church than it needs to be. It's the ultimate placing the p**** on the pedestal. Makes people want to leave the church and screw around.

When I say purity culture is bad, I'm not saying that purity is bad, but the idolization of it. My advice, especially for the younger guys, is if you see a girl in church that you want to talk to, go up and talk to her directly. Do not try to get at her through her friends, family, by asking the dad for "permission" to date his daughter, or any of that nonsense. Talk to her directly and do the best you can. But do not be surprised if at some point, her parents bring that to a close because you didn't go through them. That's the self-defeating nature of purity culture.

All of the young couples that I've seen work out, it was because the parents were wise enough to recognize they can't control their kids forever. The ones that didn't work out, it was because the parents kept sticking their nose in their kid's relationships.

If you take a woman on a date, and your church buddies start talking about marriage on the first date, you need to stop talking to them about the topic and stop seeking their advice. They raise the stakes too high and over-spiritualize everything, which is actually counter-intuitive for a good marriage.

 

[Australia Sucks]

It is difficult, but not impossible. There are still women out there who would make for a fine wife.

Yes at an individual level that is true but obviously there aren't anywhere near enough of these women to go around for every man wanting a wife so by definition a large number of men will have to miss out, as marrying a wicked woman is worse than not being married. Then it loops back to the original point do these men who are unable to get married become monks or do they fornicate? Realistically most men cannot handle being a monk and thus we are in the situation that we are in.

 

[Blade Runner]

I think the protestants did a better job of this in the last 40 years - they kept traditional elements and married young more frequently - but even now it turns out that everyone is pretty much the same, or the population boom and cultural changes have put forth all sorts of odd characters. I don't even know what you're talking about as far as purity culture goes, but I can guess. It could also be that protestants are mostly in areas that are more rural or traditional, so it was more based on location/region than anything else. Perhaps I'm biased a bit due to being from a large metropolitan area and with many peers or relatives that had families that were average to well above average in income.

My ultimate assessment is that the factors of modernity, including easier survival, feminism, and "progress" into a gynocentric society (that's what big government does) just led to the spoiling of women progressively such that women worried less about the future, could count on jobs, and thus hypergamy was unleashed. Also, once everyone starts doing it it become a cultural trend that's hard to stop, especially since women get so imprinted by what others are doing, or the status quo. It's still amazing to me that older people don't think twice about how different things were when they got married, and don't ever ask what's in it for men these days? They had sons, so it's not like they are unaware of their well being. Odd to say the least. I'm one of the few in my family that ever talked about any of this over the years. Of course, it didn't seem as real to me until my late 20s or early 30s, when I really started wondering why the current world was so different than the reality I knew my parents grew up in.

 

[Let God Arise]

At what point will you acknowledge male and female fornication aren’t the same?

If you are implying that a woman fornicating is worse than a man doing so, then I ask you how is it not a sin for a man to cause a woman to sin by fornicating with her? How is this not the reverse of the argument that "Eve caused Adam to sin by giving him the apple"? Is it worse to sin personally, or to cause another person to fall into sin? This whole line of finger-pointing and "her sin is worse than my sin" is false and goes back to removing the plank from your own eye. No one should be fornicating, full stop.

 

[Shaquilleoatmeal]

If you are implying that a woman fornicating is worse than a man doing so, then I ask you how is it not a sin for a man to cause a woman to sin by fornicating with her? How is this not the reverse of the argument that "Eve caused Adam to sin by giving him the apple"? Is it worse to sin personally, or to cause another person to fall into sin? This whole line of finger-pointing and "her sin is worse than my sin" is false and goes back to removing the plank from your own eye. No one should be fornicating, full stop.

I agree no one should be fornicating. I should have phrased that better. I’m just pointing out the negative effects are worse on a woman. Perhaps I can phrase it like that, because as stated, a man is still causing a woman to sin so there is guilt in that regard.

 

[Mr Freedom]

Both Male & Female fornication is a sin

However on a biological & I would argue even spiritual leval Female fornication is way worse. Woman are the gatekeepers of sex and are supossed to be pure. Carriers of children. Mothers. Not to mention the physical, mental & psychological negatives as well that can carry to the next generation.

Let's all be honest here. If someone told you one of your parents was a serial fornicator in the past. You'd be praying that the person in question was your father.

When females fornicate it becomes the societal norm. When only males fornicate they get outcasted by the village (and rightfully so)

An inverse to this applies to Homosexuality.

As Male homosexuality is way worse than female homosexuality For example. In terms of physical, mental, psychological & general dirty lifestyle (HIV, Aids etc..)

 

[Blade Runner]

Both Male & Female fornication is a sin

However on a biological & I would argue even spiritual leval Female fornication is way worse. Woman are the gatekeepers of sex and are supossed to be pure. Carriers of children. Mothers. Not to mention the physical, mental & psychological negatives as well that can carry to the next generation.

Let's all be honest here. If someone told you one of your parents was a serial fornicator in the past. You'd be praying that the person in question was your father.

When females fornicate it becomes the societal norm. When only males fornicate they get outcasted by the village (and rightfully so)

An inverse to this applies to Homosexuality.

As Male homosexuality is way worse than female homosexuality For example. In terms of physical, mental, psychological & general dirty lifestyle (HIV, Aids etc..)

Yes, we've said we aren't encouraging anything here for multiple posts but the simpletons keep rejecting what is obviously true. Yes, I called you guys simpletons because you have a one track mind on the issue that keeps ignoring the facts that others are putting forth, which are real.

People that are this ignorant (choosing to ignore realities) are similar to the people that don't investigate how damaging social media is to women. There are many, I would argue most people in this day and age, that don't believe that social media is detrimental to women on some sort of "sinful" spectrum. The reality is that it's akin to males watching pornography, since it elicits spiritual/emotional responses that are artificial and potentially disrupt real-life relationships. If this doesn't explain the point we're trying to make, I give up.

 

[Shaquilleoatmeal]

Something I’ve realized in recent times is sex and companionship are automatic for women. That’s why women seek money from a man.

This power imbalance screws relationships up more than people realize. It’s no wonder women banned prostitution. Sex on demand is too strong of an asset.

 

[Blade Runner]

Something I’ve realized in recent times is sex and companionship are automatic for women. That’s why women seek money from a man.

This is an interesting, quick summary.

Where the money part becomes even more problematic, beyond them getting it in modern days very easily (from a variety of sources), thus making all three things you state above fairly easy (relative to history) is that they are unaware of how artificial wealth, or the appearance of wealth can be. Put another way, guys can easily fool women into thinking they have a life of luxury but have nothing of the sort. This is yet another trick of clown world, with debt, fake jobs, and distance from fathers or male family members to vet outside guys.

Funny enough in the case above, the girl is DQing the guy for thinking he doesn't have money when he probably does (let's say he does), showing again they have no clue about how people either really make money, save, invest, etc. - or don't.

 

[Let God Arise]

Women would also prefer to follow a man with less money who flaunts his wealth, than a responsible man who earns more, saves and invests it, but doesn’t flaunt it.

 

[Blade Runner]

Women would also prefer to follow a man with less money who flaunts his wealth, than a responsible man who earns more, saves and invests it, but doesn’t flaunt it.

In this era, yes. Short term thinking and feels are built into people in general who can't see or analyze the big picture, or the larger, drawn out one. That's why they so commonly ignore the obvious reality of having the short window of attractiveness and hit 30 "all of a sudden."

It's weird, there are humans with low IQ that are short time preference, and there are (generally women) with emotional short time preference.