Shaquilleoatmeal
Protestant
Genesis 2:24
For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh.
The Destruction of Modern Women
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For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh.
Perseus66
Protestant
First time I read about this modern term "microchimerism", thank you. Seems it's related to what is anciently known as "telegony"! A promiscuous woman makes for a very, very bad wife and mother.
I guess the pastor who married her is a chronic coomer himself (look at his bald head). In a sense, male porn addicts are the equivalent of these whores. They deserve each other. A husband should never masturbate, while his wife should stay a virgin before marriage and not have sex with any man but her husband.
Yes. Your post is hard hitting but mostly true in its analysis.
In that video I posted you'll see that there is a weird "Hey, religious guys, we're looking out for you, so do what's right so we win in about a 100-200 years or so". I honestly don't think these guys are aware of just how stupid this suggestion is, and I don't think they mean poorly either. They are weirdly blinded by the material world, and their explanation of St. Paul's recommendations isn't really even sensical. One of the bigger issues is the contradiction that the New Testament has in general with the Old T "be fruitful and multiply". There are a lot of good things and challenges God has given us in the modern day, but one thing is certain, men in developed countries were not given anything in the realm of women and family, generally it's just suffering from the early 20th century til now. I as an Orthodox person was fairly embarrassed that the religious guys were more unrealistic than Clarey, the most level headed, and Elam, who just sees all this for what it is. "Just get married" is not going to happen when a population boom created a crap ton of men and women, most of whom are directionless, and marriageable women are 2-3% of the population. It's laughable. I was going to post this, but do you know why that demographic dookie is always wrong? I'll tell you why, and the Tim and Andrew guys fell into it again (worldly materialistic stance, by the way) - you have no idea how many pandemics, bombs, jab deaths, famines, etc are dropped on us in the next 50 let alone 200 years. God knows that demographics BS is all questionable, especially when large groups of people are going to be wiped off the earth, and no one has a clue when, but could be in just 10-20 years. So much for your kids and grandkids, Andrew.
I almost hate that I agree with him because there is some darkness in his words I perceive (black pill), but Looks Maximus said this and I think it's spot on. You either have chaste, pure and well behaved wives and mothers who care for their kids, or you have what he called pleb p*, which should be regarded as such. This is yet another reason why women can't go beyond early 20s and not be married; it's just not tenable.
I think it's actually more the spiritual dimension of things, which is that you inherit the sins of your parents for 3-4 generations. But to say that DNA isn't linked in some way is not possible, I understand. I've come to the understanding that even CS Lewis perceived how unnatural even 1940 was. I bet you he would be even more aghast at now, and he had a tremendous imagination. We are every bit of 1000 years past natural habitat and proper environments, and this modern tech age is literally on steroids with how unnatural it is.
One of the strange things of the last 5-10 years I've experienced is that I no longer find any of this stuff as attractive or understand how fake it is (the cooming, the porn). If it's not young and real, it can be a weird flash in the pan for visual desire, but it's really quite obviously stale propaganda that leads to major disappointment. The problem is that if you go for years in monk mode, if you aren't majorly spiritually blessed as a man with good or high levels of T, I feel like it's a fait accompli that the sex drive will just overcome you. I hate to be fatalistic but doing natural countdowns of trying to not have sex or go after it, at least, over years of time seems totally unrealistic. No excuses, just telling you the urge factor.
I'm starting to notice some women at church and similar places that are mid 20s and not married. They're not sleeping around, very attractive and come from conservative backgrounds (home schooling, big families, very Christian). I can't tell if there's something wrong with them or it's just a sign of the times and it's hard to find a compatible husband for them. I'm 33 and have zero desire to go after the single women my age, but some of these mid 20s women might be worth getting to know.
It isn't across the board but I've met even central and eastern euro immigrants who were good people that thought that late 30s guys with a 20s girl in America was also social taboo. I've not seen this yet but it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
I am skeptical that anyone in America would go for a 15-20 year age gap, even with a solid man who doesn't look bad or old. It's the only solution which means, as we've said, it won't happen.
I've noticed also, by the way, a lot of the pro marriage "just suck it up" guys and anti-MGTOW, which Elam points out as just being rational choice or response to getting nothing from women on average, don't ever talk about how the country isn't Christian at all, and it's actually not worth saving. To them, it is, since they don't think they'll move and they have families, but that exposes the hypocrisy. Clarey states it perfectly when he says that men have done all this work now you want them to be constantly bothered WHEN married. Whatever, dude.
This reflects my experience of Christian dating apps: there is a dearth of white women.
Even this isn't a real solution as then it would just shift the problem to younger guys. If men in their 30s and 40s are wifing up all the young women, what's left for younger men? As you said, they aren't going to make it while burning with lust and loneliness for decades. And then many older women are going to stay single and turn into deranged cat ladies. I hate to say it but no matter what, someone ends up losing out, there is no win-win here for society overall.
Traditionally most women married by their early 20s and most men by their mid 20s. That's the system that works best and we need to get back to it. There is always room for exceptions, but when you have a majority of people staying single until their 30s society is in for a serious shocker. Expect the social fabric to further decay as the ramifications sweep through our post-Christian civilization. We're not too far off from the Baal worship of the ancient Israelites. All the elements are in place: widespread infanticide (abortion), growing idolatry (New Age/occult/pantheistic practices), and completely unrestrained sexual immorality (sodomy, fornication, pornography). Plus now we have the technological wild card that is really going to stir the pot, just wait until someone really puts it all together.
I see many guys concerned about stuff like microchimerism/telegony, but I don't think this is healthy to fixate on. If God can forgive all sins then certainly we can too. Men who haven't stayed pure themselves, and I myself fall into this category, cannot honestly expect some pure, virgin wife to show up out of the blue. The most important thing is that she have faith and virtue. If a great woman shows up in your life who you know could make a good wife but she had a murkier past, would you really reject her just because of that? To do so risks falling into pride and you may forever regret it because, as you all clearly see, the good virgin women are like a needle in a haystack nowadays. Not saying anyone should skip over doing their research and due diligence regarding a potential mate, but it's important to remember what really matters here.
Perseus66
Protestant
Yeah, I know that Monk Mode is somewhat unnatural and not for everyone. Many members on this forum are former fornicators (PUAs) and former masturbators who are still feeling strong desire inside them, myself included. That's why in another thread I advocated for replacing the hookup culture and cooming with state-controlled prostitution, the oldest profession in the world. Here in Germany it's legal.
Western pickup culture is evil, because it rots society as a whole and renders most women promiscuous. Many of us have contributed to this, so we are at fault too. There must remain enough normal virgin girls to marry in society, only a few fallen women should be allowed to be whores/prostitutes (but then no man should marry them).
They're the most spoiled and the least have the smallest SMV differential, which are the only things that keep women in line, except for competition via decreased M:F ratio. I've explained why that is, and it mainly stems on what is obvious, but the implicit part is that the economy and ability for women to do anything or make any money will be totally hamstrung since the small number of males now DGAF.
No, they'd just have to wait. The only ones that will lose will be the aging spinsters, but recognize that they always lose - who cares. They had their shot. By the way, it doesn't matter since nothing changes until mass die out and/or collapse. Horrible to say but true.
Everything is dependent on the short female window of attractiveness. When that is rebuked, the rest follows, yes.
Yes they are, and it's sad to see, since it's obvious to us and the others are oblivious. Several things are coming in the next 3 years that will set up society for worse later, but we won't see that until the tech is "ready."
You sound like the old forum. No one expects anything or deserves anything. I've got news for you, no one is showing up like that because as Clarey says, only 2-3% are marriageable anyway. A man "not staying pure" is as irrelevant big picture as a woman's opinion on society is. Women have no business expecting what they expect, which is 10-100 things about men, so focusing on purity for men which is not as important of a characteristic for men (like women) is just addressing the wrong question.
I see this the most, and I think it has hurt me too because it makes me more blackpill and straight forward in my thinking, which no one in general would like to admit. That's how far gone this crap is. Pickup, hookup, and a culture where women "date" is just a version of them all being versions of whores, or on a spectrum of whoredom. It has blurred the line of prostitution, vs having real women who desire to be mothers and those who desire to have fun and whore. This trick has been performed so that they could try to enjoy both. Of course, at the end they eject and then take more money from stupid men, then hurt the men and his children even more. It's really sick.
What has happened throughout the last several thousand years where this was commonplace and there was no technological molochian altar in place? It is the natural order of things, when a materialist society does not force everyone to grow up at the same pace. Men and women mature differently. It was very common for the young girls in a family to be married off to older suitors while their brothers were still young and not married.
Yes we can expect a virgin and we should. A man is still able to pair bond with a woman even after living a life of promiscuity, IF he repents and cleanses his body and soul first.
Most virgins possess faith and uncorrupted virtues, even if they are not Christian per se. There are metaphysical implications that go hand in hand with deflowering a woman. I made the mistake of dating every kind of woman out there, and I will only settle for a virgin now. I will not have their dark energy in my life and produce a life that has a remnant of that undesirable genetic coding within. Genetics is of God, we must understand the purpose of why He told His people to keep their bloodlines clean and why there were so many rules when it came to reproduction.
There is nothing prideful about wanting the least amount of cards stacked against your future children. I would regret marrying a used up whore, and many more things that will come into the picture as a result of wifeing-up one, but I will never regret marrying a virgin despite all the potential problems that could manifest in that lifetime, because it was my doing and I would be the one who took her.
It is so difficult, and make no mistake, the servants of the devil in this world today know this which is why part of our struggle is to keep the lineages clean so that God's word, morals, and laws, and above all the love for Christ, can survive into the future. Our souls are closely linked to our physical vessels and every stain that is done by them and done onto them by others.
It is better to marry, than to burn, like the Lord said. But it is better to suffer and struggle to achieve a better marriage, than make concessions for the sake of convenience. Suffering and fighting define our existence, and it should be so, that the next generation of people who follow Christ did not come from human comfort or indignity, but true struggle.
I feel the same on both points, prostitution and western pick up culture. I made a post on RVF about casual sex, but I’ll double down and say casual sex is genocide against your own people since those are the people you’re around. I don’t see how bedding random women, desiring to do so and laughing and giggling about it is in any shape or form good for society. It’s also the reason we all instinctively hate casual interracial relations and it’s not just jealousy.
It’s kind of funny how the red pill community thinks it’s dropping some truth bomb when they say “she’s not yours, it’s just your turn”. That’s actually what goes through a man’s head when he wants sex “she likes me, it’s my turn”. Men allowed the casual sex culture, so no, it’s not just “female nature”. This is exactly what casual sex culture is and it doesn’t have to be this way.
The problem is two fold. First off all a man should not be allowed to do what he wants. I no longer believe in “freedom”. A man can have rights that are enjoyable and carry a great responsibility like the 2nd amendment, but definitely not to be able to do as he pleases. It’s kind of crazy how a man can commit lewd sexual acts, defile hundreds of women, have affairs with married women and abandon his children all without a single black eye, and without being ran out of town. Well the western woman enjoys the same kind of “freedom”. So how can someone say that a western woman is hypergamous? Why wouldn’t she exercise her options? Why would a woman in a “free market” decide to marry some regular guy and fulfil some kind of traditional Christian duty she knows nothing about?
I know what people are going to say. They will say that we live in a matriarchy and everything is heavily skewed in women’s favor. I completely agree with that, I’m just illustrating a point. The point is if you want a good woman she must carry a mindset of duty. She must believe that she must get married, must have children, must have a husband who will do all the big brain thinking. That can only come from culture.
I will also disagree with the whole choosing signals thing. A good women isn’t going to glance at you and then go talk to another man to make you jealous. First of all most women have no idea who you are so they logically are unable to “choose” you and second you have no idea why she’s “choosing” you. It might be because she knows you’re laser focused on her, she might think you’ll be a good simp for the night. It doesn’t have to mean “wow this guy is so hot, if he talks to me I’ll suck…”. I believe a good woman will make it easy for a man, put herself in your orbit if she does like you. I also believe that behavior requires a certain amount of innocence and that’s why we rarely see it.
I tried to tell people this for a long time but few listen or know history. It's major recency bias. It could very well be that this wasn't the majority case, but it was absolutely known, done, and not uncommon. That's the point.
Yes, and thinking otherwise is getting into an egalitarian trap. I am flummoxed as to why people can't see this, especially men. The consequence to a woman not being a virgin on many levels is a huge consequence for her, for suitors, for families, etc. The consequence for men is quite clearly little. Especially if he is repentant, as you say. A lot of this has to do with the reality of man and as an experienced guy, ascending in value as a major differentiation between men and women. Women lose value quickly, so their "repentance" is relatively meaningless compared to a man, since they have little to no value left. I don't say that in a christian or metaphysical sense, I say it in a relationship one. It's like a woman going on a diet once you're in your 30s (or 40s for those that think women aren't old at 30). That's right, no one cares. But it is better for you.
This is the whole thing and one of the reasons why I brought up Clarey talking about the marriageable women. He was a very earnest and thoughtful man in that episode, showing deep down he actually is honest about life and christianity, which he's probably experienced as neutral to bad from a social point of view, given his background was likely protestant. He points out rightly that of the 2-3% left, that doesn't even account for compatibility of personality, energy, cooperation, and things like family stuff. So we are really talking about unicorns in the west at this point, and it's closer to .1% as a successful man, because why is he going to marry an old woman, and what women are left that would marry a man who is mid 30s or older in the west? Social taboo KO for the guy, who actually can take care of her and is wise. Try explaining this to women - you won't be able to.
What Roosh found by the end is what we all know but what we talk about infrequently, for some reason. I should make a thread on this, actually. He realized that anyone falling for pickup stuff, or sectors that were ok with modern degeneracy of a sort, would hang out at certain places (bars) or in big cities of modernity and fun 20s, feminism and protected women doing whatever the wanted in the modern day. This is really important, and I'm not excusing casual sex or anything of the sort, but there's this type of storytelling or conflation of men going to remote villages and seducing virginal women that just isn't true, and no pun intended, it's not remotely even true. These were women, their fault or not (do they have agency? you tell me), that were already deciding to have fun and enter into the game of nightlife and "boyfriends" or "dating" etc. That's already the choice of the spectrum of monkey branching, casual sex, getting resources or paid to be a date, and granting to a select few (the guys that probably won't stick around) the sex to try to outkick your coverage, date higher, yes, hypergamy. Knowing that women were playing these games, guys adapted and tried to at least get something out of the "open" women. Is it right? No. Is it a stupid adaptation to clown world and something to do when fewer and fewer serious women are out there? Of course.
I disagree. The leaders of the country and/or the plan was to subvert most people and families via propaganda, media and government wise. Did men allow mass immigration? No, you know who did, the ones in league, meaning a small number of men. These "elites" know female nature very well, and that female nature unbridled results in exactly what we see.
Yes, this proves my point. They won't. It's their natural to follow, and even if you are a good dad it's still just a probability that your daughter will, depending on many factors and her surroundings. Of course, it's always best to be an example, but just like a lot of men can't control the outside forces and government, it says nothing necessarily about the father if the whole society is there to subvert him, insitutitonally.
This is precisely the case and precisely the problem. Women are obviously not very good at discerning that they actually need men, big picture. Why? They don't think about big picture or anything beyond immediate surroundings. Men don't have that luxury. A woman should always be along for the ride, not the focus.
As I always say, and these things go hand in hand and they are negative (sadly) - and my priority is on telling the truth - you won't get sanity until a relative collapse of the current structure or worse. That also means M:F ratio goes down. For women to be any net benefit for a man, she can't be lazy. This is very rare unless she can't afford to be.
Perseus66
Protestant
Agreed, women are like flowers. If you "de-flower" them, they quickly use their natural beauty and youth. I've seen 20 year old hookers who already looked like used up middle-aged women because of their past miles. This is what promiscuity does to a woman's physique. A virgin on the other hand can retain her beauty even after a certain age.
Destruction of women = Hoeflation
Any thoughts?
Hoeflation is the devolution of traditional masculine (beta) values such as protective and provisioning power just has housing inflation is the devaluation of cash in real terms.
An owner of residential real estate these days is likely to be mortgaged to the hilt so there would be little maintenance on the property. Others would not be able to afford a house so they rent and the house will have a body count of tenants.
Any thoughts?
Hoeflation is the devolution of traditional masculine (beta) values such as protective and provisioning power just has housing inflation is the devaluation of cash in real terms.
An owner of residential real estate these days is likely to be mortgaged to the hilt so there would be little maintenance on the property. Others would not be able to afford a house so they rent and the house will have a body count of tenants.
And women that have only slept with their husbands and chosen motherhood over a career also age very well. It's insane how young some of the older women at church look. Most of them marry young and start having kids. Don't need lots of makeup, dress modestly, little to no alcohol use.
I don't see this very frequently, no matter which way you look at it. I think the 60s and on generally wasn't very good for women from a physical point of view. Now the skew is so high that the only ones that are thin are the "fit" ones, which means they are marketing their looks as attention whores on IG, at a minimum.
George Clooney: 62 years old
Amal Clooney: 45 years old
17 year age gap
Leonardo DiCaprio: 49 years old
Vittoria Ceretti: 25 years old
24 year age gap
Brad Pitt: 60 years old
Ines de Ramon: 31
29 year age gap
David Foster: 74 years old
Katherine McFee: 39 years old
35 year age gap
Ryan Reynolds: 47
Blake Lively: 35
12 year age gap
I understand. But you must know, these men largely get a pass. And they are all married in the same business, or for a type of business.
We're talking about people who are seen as common men, even if they are very successful. Normies elevate the public figures and think of them as exceptions, while they won't look at a friend who isn't on TV or such and think he's any different. It's pretty funny, actually.