Sometimes you just have to move on right?

FrancisK

FrancisK

Catholic
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I don't usually reveal this much of my personal life and I usually do my best not to show any weakness but I could use some thoughts and words from some brothers.

I'm 39 I want to get married and have kids, I don't have a problem finding girls they line them up for me from the other side at every family party. But I don't want a submissive concubine and that's pretty much all that would be, although at this point I'm probably better off going that route it seems.

I've been dating a good woman for a decent time now and we were serious in regards to marriage and children, we both wanted it. The problem is that as much as her and I are great together she would irrationally lose her mind on me over nonsensical hypocritical things. Big blowups over things that were just silly and no matter how much I reason with her she thinks it's okay to give me hell for these things, like if I had to work late on a Monday so I couldn't come over so that meant there was someone else even though I was there every day the week prior. Like being an hour late and it meant I was a liar no matter how well I explained with rationale and logic what happened and I did actually leave work when I said I did. I just couldn't reason with her.

But then eventually she would just turn it off like a switch, saying she didn't mean any of it as bad she just wants to move on and "be happy". It was maddening I could never understand it, I'm treated like a murderer defending myself to hell and back over nothing then it's just no big deal at the drop of a hat because she "wants to be happy and I'm always negative and can't be happy".

Out last fight was last night and I think I finally figured it out. She's big on the self help inspirational crap, like read all the books listen to the tapes and Google every situation and take someone else's words to heart....something I have zero interest in. So I figured out that the reason why I can never get through to her, no matter what she does or says it's no big deal and can just be done with it like nothing happened, is because in her mind everything is positive. You would think this is a good thing but it's not, let me explain.

Last night we got into it and in the course of that I told her she always accuses me of cheating. She flipped out when I told her that saying she had NEVER accused me of cheating. Mind you two weeks prior we had fought because I had to work late and she accused me of being with someone else! I called her out on this and apparently to her this wasn't accusing me of cheating, my head wanted to explode. But it all makes sense to me now, anything she says or does that is bad or cruel in her mind it wasn't actually that. In her mind it was positive and fine, everything is always positive and fine and that's just how it always has to be in her head so she'll never see any of my reasoning as to how she was treating me and was wrong for doing that to me. I don't think it makes her a bad person but I'll just never get anywhere with her, everything will always be a battle because anything she says or does will always be positive in her mind even when it's not, it's actually cruel and condescending. No reasoning or logic I will ever provide to show her that she is wrong will matter, her words and actions are always positive in her mind even when they are very obviously not. Not positive as in she's always right and I'm always wrong, positive as in her own words were just never bad....they were positive things and okay as she had taught herself to always be positive.

At this point it doesn't matter how much I love her, it doesn't matter how much I have invested....i'll never be able to reason with her there is nothing I can do but let it go and move on. I think she needs someone that just doesn't care, someone who is happy that they can just say "sorry" no matter what it was and not really care and it will be over, someone who doesn't try to make her understand so that it changes just blow it off and to her thats fine it will be positive. It just is what it is.

I don't even know why I'm typing this out, just wanted to get it off my chest....thanks brothers.
 
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FrancisK said:
I don't usually reveal this much of my personal life and I usually do my best not to show any weakness but I could use some thoughts and words from some brothers.

I'm 39 I want to get married and have kids, I don't have a problem finding girls they line them up for me from the other side at every family party. But I don't want a submissive concubine and that's pretty much all that would be, although at this point I'm probably better off going that route it seems.

I've been dating a good woman for a decent time now and we were serious in regards to marriage and children, we both wanted it. The problem is that as much as her and I are great together she would irrationally lose her mind on me over nonsensical hypocritical things. Big blowups over things that were just silly and no matter how much I reason with her she thinks it's okay, like if I had to work late so I couldn't come over so that meant there was someone else even though I was there every day the week prior. Like being an hour late and it meant I was a liar no matter how well I explained with rationale and logic what happened. I just couldn't reason with her.

But then eventually she would just turn it off like a switch, saying she didn't mean any of it she just wants to move on and "be happy". It was maddening I could never understand it, I'm treated like a murderer defending myself to hell and back over nothing then it's just no big deal at the drop of a hat.

Out last fight was last night and I think I finally figured it out. She's big on the self help inspirational crap, like read all the books listen to the tapes and Google every situation and take someone else's words to heart....something I have zero interest in. So I figured out that the reason why I can never get through to her, no matter what she does or says it's no big deal and can just be done with it like nothing is because in her mind everything is positive. You would think this is a good thing but it's not, let me explain.

Last night we got into it and in the course of that I told her she always accuses me of cheating. She flipped out when I told her that saying she had NEVER accused me of cheating. Mind you two weeks prior we had fought because I had to work late and she accused me of being with someone else! I called her out on this and apparently to her this wasn't accusing me of cheating, my head wanted to explode. But it all makes sense to me now, anything she says or does that is bad or cruel in her mind it wasn't actually that. In her mind it was positive and fine, everything is always positive and fine and that's just how it always has to be in her head so she'll never see any of my reasoning as to how she was treating me was wrong. I don't think it makes her a bad person but I'll just never get anywhere with her, everything will always be a battle because anything she says or does will always be positive in her mind even when it's not. No reasoning or logic I will ever provide to show her that she is wrong will matter, her words and actions are always positive in her mind even when they are very obviously not.

At this point it doesn't matter how much I love her, it doesn't matter how much I have invested....i'll never be able to reason with her there is nothing I can to but let it go. I think she needs someone that just doesn't care, someone is happy that they can just say "sorry" and not really care and it will be over, someone who doesn't try to make her understand so that it changes. It just is what it is.

I don't even know why I'm typing this out, just wanted to get it off my chest....thanks brothers.
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Sounds like you're be dealing with a girl who might have bipolar disorder.


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Caduceus said:
Sounds like you're be dealing with a girl who might have bipolar disorder.


.
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As much as it's human nature to trash someone who hurt you to make yourself feel better I don't think I would go as far as to say that. I think it's more to do with her mindset of everything always having to be positive even when it clearly is not so she can't say how it was wrong and it drives me nuts so we get into a fight. Then it just goes in circles so in her mind it's just a switch, go back to positive. I guess the further issue with that is that she never learns from it, which has definitely been true.

As in her words just don't match up to what is in her head so I'm fighting her words but in her head the words were not what was actually said.

Although she does freely admit to having severe adhd and insecurities. But I feel like anyone can say that.
 
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Is there an underlying or deeper problem between you two that you think is dealt with but in her mind is not? Because in my experience, it is 9 times out of 10 never really about the curent thing they are supposedly mad about, it's about something else but they use the current thing to try to get you to realize why they are still upset about the former thing. It is not logical and makes 0 sense to me, but knowing that somehow makes it easier to deal with.
 
Northern Pilgrim said:
Is there an underlying or deeper problem between you two that you think is dealt with but in her mind is not? Because in my experience, it is 9 times out of 10 never really about the curent thing they are supposedly mad about, it's about something else but they use the current thing to try to get you to realize why they are still upset about the former thing. It is not logical and makes 0 sense to me, but knowing that somehow makes it easier to deal with.
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Other than her insecurities I can't think of anything, I'm good to her and she's good to me. It's just when these things occur...
 
Caduceus said:
Sounds like you're be dealing with a girl who might have bipolar disorder.


.
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No. What he describes is a woman who may be on the Cluster B spectrum - think BPD or something. Notice her extreme reactions to perceived abandonment (not home on time, so he must be seeing another women) and her black and white thinking in many situations. Not everything is Bipolar, people need to stop saying this nonsense.
In any case, you should perhaps suggest therapy (DBT) for her if you believe this relationship can be saved. If not, then perhaps it is time to walk away. Assume I'm right and she's Cluster B, the biggest thing is to make sure she is conscious of her behavior, many people with these afflictions are not aware they are doing them, they just tend to react in the moment to their emotions. She will need to work on her emotional regulation and becoming more present so she can identify those negative emotions and nip them in the bud. That's the whole premise of DBT - so allow people to become aware of their emotions and regulate them accordingly.
 
FrancisK said:
As much as it's human nature to trash someone who hurt you to make yourself feel better I don't think I would go as far as to say that.
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Calling someone bipolar is not an insult or trashing them. It's just a reality of a certain type of mental setup that some girls have for their whole lives
.
The strong mood swings, blowups, later denial/brushing off, obsession to supposedly only think positive, and disconnect between words and reality that you mention are ALL classic bipolar symptoms. I was in a long term relationship with a bipolar girl myself for a long time without knowing it until much later (I only found out 2 years into the relationship) ...so I recognise all the signs.

Trust me....you will never be able ever to "reason" with a bipolar when she has flare ups, you will not "cure" her, it will happen over and over again, and finally you just dodged a huge bullet by not marrying her.
 
As many here might know, my wife died a couple years ago. I look back and think my marriage was very difficult. In my experience, the things you are describing are normal. All women are like that.

I try to be philosophical about things, and think maybe I could have handled it better. I think of remarrying, and hope it could be better, but doubt it.

Part of me says all women are like this, and the best bet is to just dominate her, knock her up, and make a family. It's hit or miss if you could ever do better. The other part of me says to run.

I will say, there are levels of frame, dominance, and outcome independence I only understood after it was too late.
 
Sanctus said:
No. What he describes is a woman who may be on the Cluster B spectrum - think BPD or something.
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BPD (borderline personality disorder) is also possible, but it's much more extreme and rare.
If it really is BPD,, then I suggest OP to run, not walk....but RUN AWAY from any girl who has BPD.
BPD girls are the types who make false abuse and rape accusations to the police and get your ass landed in jail.
 
Caduceus said:
BPD (borderline personality disorder) is also possible, but it's much more extreme and rare.
If it really is BPD,, then I suggest OP to run, not walk....but RUN AWAY from any girl who has BPD.
BPD girls are the types who make false abuse and rape accusations to the police and get your ass landed in jail.
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That's not her, not to say she doesn't have bpd but false abuse and rape claims isn't her. She's a good woman everyone has faults but sometimes I suppose the faults are too much to overcome. I'm not perfect by any means and it always felt like I had to be perfect otherwise I would catch hell for it. I think also a lot of it had to do with having a very sheltered and spoiled upbringing, like she's still that little brat that needs everything perfect or it's unacceptable. I'm not calling her names though, I'm just describing it.
 
Thomas More said:
As many here might know, my wife died a couple years ago. I look back and think my marriage was very difficult. In my experience, the things you are describing are normal. All women are like that.
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Bless you, brother.

I think we've all been the OP's shoes before, and my immediate thought was "yeah, they are all like that, just not to that degree."

The most basic thing to know about women, is that they are emotional, as opposed to men who are logical.
They react based on a feeling, (and the feeling may not even be related to what you are doing or saying at the moment).

And the second is that women do not experience love in the way men do. It is not a deep thing, but for them, really another state of emotion.

I think it's the kind of thing the OP will look back on in a year or two and say "wow, what huge red flags." We just can't see them when it's coming from a person we have feelings for.
 
FrancisK said:
That's actually a very valid point but it doesn't excuse it in my mind
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Agree. I've dealt with similar issues in marriage and so basically will just try to avoid irritants and discussing unresolved things during that 'period' of time...

Not that it is an excuse for bad behavior or is right for her to do, but we live in a fallen world and it can take a lot of time for even self-aware people to change.
 
The problem for you is not her excessive behavior. It's not your fault or responsibility how she acts, except if you deliberately trigger it, which doesn't seem to be the case.

The problem for you is your own reaction to it. That's the thing you should learn how to handle because that is the only thing you can actually control.
In your mind, you can use reason, and logic and come intentionally to a conclusion on how to behave and react to others properly, as guided by the Bible. Your mindset and philosophy need to be changed, not hers.

No person should have the power to make you happy or unhappy. We depend on God, not on people.



And regarding your current situation,? Don't overreact and overthink these
scuffles. If she is valuable to you, don't make hasty decisions, just keep walking righteously. No matter how it ends, you want to be in good spiritual and mental condition.

Also, have a little understanding and mercy on her. She is a lost ship, swayed by every emotion, lashing out of frustration, because something feels wrong, but she cannot describe it, because, as a woman, she is a stranger even to herself.

Your role is to lead her gently but firmly to calm waters, not to discuss and reason every wave with her.
 
Feel for you brother. I have experienced the crazy with my wife for many years now for what I believe to be an early ish onset of peri menopause amongst other things. If your gf is the same age as you, don't discount this as a possibility, the hormone changes really make them crazy. My wife is literally a different person now from when we met.

I know you're not looking for advice and it seems you've come to a good decision. (by the way, you think she's crazy sometimes now, imagine how crazy it's going to be when you ditch her, if you're the same age, she's in the last chance saloon with you) so I'll write this for the benefit of the everyone else.

The one thing that I keep coming back to is the thought of how much MORE I could have achieved in the last 10 years if 50% of my brain power was not occupied in the background thinking about my relationship. How much better I could be as a man, how much further along the road I could be if I wasn't being sabotaged by my woman's drama.

The happiest and high achieving guys I see aren't ones who have a high achieving woman who is in competition for dominance, they have a woman who literally looks up to them with adoring eyes and helps them along their journey. When I come home at night, I don't need extra work from a woman.

I'm trying to fix this in my relationship but the frame is already set to a certain extent and we have a child together so I only have certain room for manœuvrer and we are in it for the long term, like it or not. I have fixed this lately by literally not giving a damn about what she's up to and crucially recognising that her own feelings are just a thing to be observed and not something that necessary has to effect me. 'I see that you are feeling x, that's a shitty feeling, I know what that is but I don't have to get dragged into that feeling'.

It's a tough balance to strike because I am totally in love with her but to make things work, I have to convince myself I don't really care.

Good luck and godspeed to you OP

(Ps. Check out a channel on you tube called Psychacks.)
 
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What does the Bible say about quarrelsome women?

Another thing to consider, if children/family is the goal here, you have to consider the impact that such behavior could have on the children. If it's difficult for you, a grown man with agency and coping skills, think of a child being thrust into that environment.
 
''I just couldn't reason with her'' most women cant be reasoned with you have to use other ( more primal ) tactics. LIke a game of chicken with a wild animal you hold your ground arrogantly nothing phases your absolute sense of righteousness she will falter against this steel wall then you tickle her or say some idiotic things to distract her she will laugh thats how its ''solved'' you can never take it seriously or let it annoy you. If she does annoy you with these antics then you are not aproaching female and male dynamics from the right angle or shes not the right woman for you. if you do find one that accepts reason it will still not be up to the level of a man but those are real gems there arent many. reasoning with women only means she has absolutely submitted to you and wont say anything to contradict you. then you can give long lectures where she absorb every word you say and this can feel like reasoning but its not really. You have to be very carefull though because one sentence you say can be taken as gospel out of the 15 minutes of talk and she will hold on to that and can even bring it up later ( because its not reasoning its programming ). You say you dont want a submissive concubine but this seems to be the end result if you play all your cards right with women, it might be boring but we just have to accept this is the way it is. Leadership and submission, if she is unable to submit or you are unable to lead or both then relationship wont meet its true potential.
 
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