Sleep

[Shaquilleoatmeal]

Apparently B6 is the most important to not feel sleepy after a long night of sleep.

Make sure to take the proper form of B6, which is pyridoxal 5 phosphate, or P5P. The more common form, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, or Pyridoxine HCl, is bad:

 

[Batman]

As of late my sleep is actually great after sticking to my routines and consistent schedule.

I still find Life Extension liquid melatonin to be a godsend; melatonin from other brands were oddly enough fairly uneffective for me. I take about 1/2 a mg an hour before bed and occasionally also take 400-600mg of Trace Minerals liquid ionic magnesium a couple hours before that to help me wind down. May consider making my own ZMA formulation since I already have Zinc and Mag, as all I need is P5P as the above poster noted. I definitely suspect B6 is underrated for sleep as I've never once seen it in any sleep formulations (though 99% of them are trash).

Does anyone know if melatonin is bad to take long term?

Get a job as a construction laborer. I guarantee you will sleep.

I wanted to comment on this again. I recently volunteered 3 days in a row at a thrift store and spent most of my days loading and unloading in the cargo bay + rearranging heavy furniture in the showroom (by myself), while fasted and without any breaks and it was by far the most physically demanding thing I've done in a long time (I went out of my way to do all the heavy lifting as much as I could).

Intuitively one would think this would improve my sleep...but it had the opposite effect. Sedation or exhaustion feel like completely different things from sleep and in fact can be antithetical to it (at least for me).

 

[Thomas More]

As of late my sleep is actually great after sticking to my routines and consistent schedule.

I still find Life Extension liquid melatonin to be a godsend; melatonin from other brands were oddly enough fairly uneffective for me. I take about 1/2 a mg an hour before bed and occasionally also take 400-600mg of Trace Minerals liquid ionic magnesium a couple hours before that to help me wind down. May consider making my own ZMA formulation since I already have Zinc and Mag, as all I need is P5P as the above poster noted. I definitely suspect B6 is underrated for sleep as I've never once seen it in any sleep formulations (though 99% of them are trash).

Does anyone know if melatonin is bad to take long term?




I wanted to comment on this again. I recently volunteered 3 days in a row at a thrift store and spent most of my days loading and unloading in the cargo bay + rearranging heavy furniture in the showroom (by myself), while fasted and without any breaks and it was by far the most physically demanding thing I've done in a long time (I went out of my way to do all the heavy lifting as much as I could).

Intuitively one would think this would improve my sleep...but it had the opposite effect. Sedation or exhaustion feel like completely different things from sleep and in fact can be antithetical to it (at least for me).

I think over exertion is bad for sleep. If I do this, my sore muscles end up keeping me awake. However, if I strike the right balance of a good workout that's not excessive, then have a good supper, and hit the sack, I sleep the best.

 

[Steady Hands]

As of late my sleep is actually great after sticking to my routines and consistent schedule.

Great work

I still find Life Extension liquid melatonin to be a godsend; melatonin from other brands were oddly enough fairly uneffective for me. I take about 1/2 a mg an hour before bed and occasionally also take 400-600mg of Trace Minerals liquid ionic magnesium a couple hours before that to help me wind down. May consider making my own ZMA formulation since I already have Zinc and Mag, as all I need is P5P as the above poster noted. I definitely suspect B6 is underrated for sleep as I've never once seen it in any sleep formulations (though 99% of them are trash).

Thanks for sharing. Do keep us updated with the results of your experiments.

Does anyone know if melatonin is bad to take long term?

Current literature suggests that long-term chronic use of melatonin is not recommended for sleep disorders due to a lack of longitudinal research evidence.

Anecdotal information from my end suggests that regular use can lead to desensitisation and dependence, resulting in a negative rebound effect whereby sleep is inhibited when intake is stopped.

Based on personal experimentation, reports from friends, and reading the literature, my tentative conclusions follow (disclaimer: not advice).

1. Melatonin in relatively small doses over limited periods appears safe for adults.

2. Melatonin can interact with other drugs and supplements. Consider discussing these potential interactions with your trusted medical professional before commencing intake.

3. Many supplements provide excessively high doses of 5+ grams for routine sleep-related use; however, higher-dose intakes may have potential to help other conditions such as Alzheimer’s disease.

4. The lowest effective dose should probably be administered, with the American Academy of Sleep Medicine recommending a maximum dose of 2mg. Other guidelines recommended 1mg.

5. Compared to fast-release versions, slow-release melatonin appears less effective for assisting sleep induction, and more effective with assisting sleep maintenance. It may be more useful to take melatonin 90-120 minutes before lying down to sleep, rather than 30-60 minutes.

6. The optimal use seems to be for helping set one's circadian rhythm in the short term such as adjusting to a new time zone over the first week or so.

7. For longer-term use, cycling on and off in an intermittent manner characterised by more time 'off' than 'on', seems best for sustainability. For instance, 1 week on, 3 weeks off, 1 week on, 2 weeks off. This is most useful for shift workers, however a similar routine could be used in populations with sub-clinical chronic sleep issues. More research is needed to confirm the validity of these tentative positions.

Further reading

Chronic Administration of Melatonin: Physiological and Clinical Considerations - PMC

Background: Exogenous melatonin is commonly used to treat insomnia, other sleep problems, and numerous medical illnesses, including Alzheimer’s disease, autism spectrum disorder, and mild cognitive impairment in adults and children. There is ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Abstract

Background: Exogenous melatonin is commonly used to treat insomnia, other sleep problems, and numerous medical illnesses, including Alzheimer’s disease, autism spectrum disorder, and mild cognitive impairment in adults and children. There is evolving information regarding issues with the use of chronic melatonin.
Methods: The present investigation was a narrative review. Results: Melatonin usage has risen dramatically in recent years. Many countries only allow melatonin prescriptions. In the United States (U.S.), it is classified as a dietary supplement accessible over the counter and can be derived from animals, microorganisms, or, most commonly, made synthetically. No regulatory agency oversees its manufacturing or sale in the U.S. melatonin concentration of marketed preparations varies widely between product labels and manufacturers. Melatonin’s ability to induce sleep is detectable. However, it is modest for most people. Sleep length appears to be less important in sustained-release preparations. The optimal dosage is unknown, and routinely used amounts vary substantially. Melatonin’s short-term negative effects are minimal, resolve at medicine cessation, and do not usually prevent usage overall. Much research on long-term melatonin administration has found no difference between exogenous melatonin and placebo in terms of long-term negative effects.
Conclusion: Melatonin at low to moderate dosages (approximately 5–6 mg daily or less) appears safe. Long-term usage appears to benefit certain patient populations, such as those with autism spectrum disorder. Studies investigating potential benefits in reducing cognitive decline and increased longevity are ongoing. However, it is widely agreed that the long-term effects of taking exogenous melatonin have been insufficiently studied and warrant additional investigation

Current Insights into the Risks of Using Melatonin as a Treatment for Sleep Disorders in Older Adults - PMC

Exogenous melatonin is commonly used for sleep disorders in older adults, and its use is increasing over time. It appears to have modest efficacy in treating insomnia and circadian rhythm sleep-wake disorders. Melatonin is commonly perceived to be a ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Exogenous melatonin is commonly used for sleep disorders in older adults, and its use is increasing over time. It appears to have modest efficacy in treating insomnia and circadian rhythm sleep-wake disorders. Melatonin is commonly perceived to be a safe alternative to other hypnotics and is available without prescription in some jurisdictions. New evidence suggests that endogenous melatonin has pleomorphic effects on multiple organ systems, many of which are poorly understood. This narrative review summarizes the current evidence regarding the safety of melatonin in older adults (defined by age over 65 years). Melatonin appears to have a favorable safety profile in this population, however there is a dearth of evidence regarding the safety of prolonged use. There are several factors which increase the risk of adverse effects of melatonin in older adults, and these should be taken into consideration when prescribing to this population.

The short-term and long-term adverse effects of melatonin treatment in children and adolescents: a systematic review and GRADE assessment - PMC

Currently, melatonin is used to treat children and adolescents with insomnia without knowing the full extent of the short-term and long-term consequences. Our aim was to provide clinicians and guideline panels with a systematic assessment of ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Children who use melatonin are likely to experience non-serious adverse events, yet the actual extent to which melatonin leads to non-serious adverse events and the long-term consequences remain uncertain. This major gap of knowledge on safety calls for caution against complacent use of melatonin in children and adolescents with chronic insomnia and for more research to inform clinicians and guideline panels on this key issue.

Melatonin Side Effects

Many people use the supplement melatonin as a low-cost sleep aid. Learn about potential melatonin side effects as well as safety and dosing.

www.sleepfoundation.org

“Most people end up taking a dose of melatonin that is unnecessarily high through no fault of their own due to formulations stocked on shelves. For most people 1-3 mgs is more than enough and is just as effective as higher doses, but with less risk of side effects.”

Is It Safe to Take Melatonin Every Night?

Have you ever wondered if it is safe to take melatonin every night? We cover everything you need to know about recommended doses of melatonin.

www.sleepfoundation.org

Melatonin is typically safe when used short-term
, but research on its long-term effects is limited. Some experts have suggested that because melatonin is a hormone, it may disrupt hormonal processes like puberty and the menstrual cycle. But, there is not enough reliable research to show concrete evidence of this effect.

 

[Pointy Elbows]

A few months ago I had to spend nights with my elderly father. He was up 10 or so times a night, wandering the house, sometimes in near delusion, sometimes just headed to the bathroom and got lost. Mom was exhausted chasing him around and it was hurting them both. His daytime cognitive function declined rapidly, and we were (still are) worried about dementia, etc. During the lack of sleep months, he was really forgetful and confused during daytime. Driving ability, response time, and basic awareness tanked. He doesn't drive at night now and I take him for his longer trips.

We eventually got him to a sleep specialist. They reviewed his meds, diet, and activity. Here's some simple things they did that helped an 85 yo man:

- remove all alcohol. None. He's never been a heavy drinker, but not even a nightly wine glass now. This seems to prevent the snap-awakes when the alcohol wears off in the middle of the night.
- dialed in/corrected meds.
- No dairy or caffeine of any kind after 4 PM. (He's a little lactose intolerant and it seems to prevent him from slipping into a deep sleep)
- No late day sweets, reduce overall sugar intake
- Set routine to his exercise and increase step count. He's always been energetic, but he's just plain old now. After the dog died last summer, he cut out some of his daily walks. They go for short daily "moseys" now.
- low dosage of melatonin as needed (if the previous night was restless)
- confirmed cpap settings were right

Some of these things he just needed to hear from a medical professional, as he knew them but was disregarding them anyway. Bless my folks, they still have the "doctor says so" mentality.

His sleep has improved, and it didn't take drastic stuff. He still has "age appropriate" problems but this part is better.

This experience (and several other old-people events in my extended family/friends) have made me re-think several things about old age and just lifestyle. I want to prepare for the eventual housebound years in a different way than I did before.

 

[SeaEagle]

I quit caffeine 7 days ago and I'm hoping it'll help with anxiety and sleep problems.

I'll update in a while, glad to be out of the headache phase.