Make sure to take the proper form of B6, which is pyridoxal 5 phosphate, or P5P. The more common form, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, or Pyridoxine HCl, is bad:
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Make sure to take the proper form of B6, which is pyridoxal 5 phosphate, or P5P. The more common form, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, or Pyridoxine HCl, is bad:
As of late my sleep is actually great after sticking to my routines and consistent schedule.
I still find Life Extension liquid melatonin to be a godsend; melatonin from other brands were oddly enough fairly uneffective for me. I take about 1/2 a mg an hour before bed and occasionally also take 400-600mg of Trace Minerals liquid ionic magnesium a couple hours before that to help me wind down. May consider making my own ZMA formulation since I already have Zinc and Mag, as all I need is P5P as the above poster noted. I definitely suspect B6 is underrated for sleep as I've never once seen it in any sleep formulations (though 99% of them are trash).
Does anyone know if melatonin is bad to take long term?
Intuitively one would think this would improve my sleep...but it had the opposite effect. Sedation or exhaustion feel like completely different things from sleep and in fact can be antithetical to it (at least for me).
I still find Life Extension liquid melatonin to be a godsend; melatonin from other brands were oddly enough fairly uneffective for me. I take about 1/2 a mg an hour before bed and occasionally also take 400-600mg of Trace Minerals liquid ionic magnesium a couple hours before that to help me wind down. May consider making my own ZMA formulation since I already have Zinc and Mag, as all I need is P5P as the above poster noted. I definitely suspect B6 is underrated for sleep as I've never once seen it in any sleep formulations (though 99% of them are trash).
Does anyone know if melatonin is bad to take long term?
I wanted to comment on this again. I recently volunteered 3 days in a row at a thrift store and spent most of my days loading and unloading in the cargo bay + rearranging heavy furniture in the showroom (by myself), while fasted and without any breaks and it was by far the most physically demanding thing I've done in a long time (I went out of my way to do all the heavy lifting as much as I could).
Intuitively one would think this would improve my sleep...but it had the opposite effect. Sedation or exhaustion feel like completely different things from sleep and in fact can be antithetical to it (at least for me).
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I think over exertion is bad for sleep. If I do this, my sore muscles end up keeping me awake. However, if I strike the right balance of a good workout that's not excessive, then have a good supper, and hit the sack, I sleep the best.
Great work
Thanks for sharing. Do keep us updated with the results of your experiments.
Current literature suggests that long-term chronic use of melatonin is not recommended for sleep disorders due to a lack of longitudinal research evidence.
Anecdotal information from my end suggests that regular use can lead to desensitisation and dependence, resulting in a negative rebound effect whereby sleep is inhibited when intake is stopped.
Based on personal experimentation, reports from friends, and reading the literature, my tentative conclusions follow (disclaimer: not advice).
1. Melatonin in relatively small doses over limited periods appears safe for adults.
2. Melatonin can interact with other drugs and supplements. Consider discussing these potential interactions with your trusted medical professional before commencing intake.
3. Many supplements provide excessively high doses of 5+ grams for routine sleep-related use; however, higher-dose intakes may have potential to help other conditions such as Alzheimer’s disease.
4. The lowest effective dose should probably be administered, with the American Academy of Sleep Medicine recommending a maximum dose of 2mg. Other guidelines recommended 1mg.
5. Compared to fast-release versions, slow-release melatonin appears less effective for assisting sleep induction, and more effective with assisting sleep maintenance. It may be more useful to take melatonin 90-120 minutes before lying down to sleep, rather than 30-60 minutes.
6. The optimal use seems to be for helping set one's circadian rhythm in the short term such as adjusting to a new time zone over the first week or so.
7. For longer-term use, cycling on and off in an intermittent manner characterised by more time 'off' than 'on', seems best for sustainability. For instance, 1 week on, 3 weeks off, 1 week on, 2 weeks off. This is most useful for shift workers, however a similar routine could be used in populations with sub-clinical chronic sleep issues. More research is needed to confirm the validity of these tentative positions.
Further reading
Chronic Administration of Melatonin: Physiological and Clinical Considerations - PMC
Background: Exogenous melatonin is commonly used to treat insomnia, other sleep problems, and numerous medical illnesses, including Alzheimer’s disease, autism spectrum disorder, and mild cognitive impairment in adults and children. There is ...
pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Current Insights into the Risks of Using Melatonin as a Treatment for Sleep Disorders in Older Adults - PMC
Exogenous melatonin is commonly used for sleep disorders in older adults, and its use is increasing over time. It appears to have modest efficacy in treating insomnia and circadian rhythm sleep-wake disorders. Melatonin is commonly perceived to be a ...
pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
The short-term and long-term adverse effects of melatonin treatment in children and adolescents: a systematic review and GRADE assessment - PMC
Currently, melatonin is used to treat children and adolescents with insomnia without knowing the full extent of the short-term and long-term consequences. Our aim was to provide clinicians and guideline panels with a systematic assessment of ...
pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Melatonin Side Effects
Many people use the supplement melatonin as a low-cost sleep aid. Learn about potential melatonin side effects as well as safety and dosing.
www.sleepfoundation.org
Is It Safe to Take Melatonin Every Night?
Have you ever wondered if it is safe to take melatonin every night? We cover everything you need to know about recommended doses of melatonin.
www.sleepfoundation.org
A few months ago I had to spend nights with my elderly father. He was up 10 or so times a night, wandering the house, sometimes in near delusion, sometimes just headed to the bathroom and got lost. Mom was exhausted chasing him around and it was hurting them both. His daytime cognitive function declined rapidly, and we were (still are) worried about dementia, etc. During the lack of sleep months, he was really forgetful and confused during daytime. Driving ability, response time, and basic awareness tanked. He doesn't drive at night now and I take him for his longer trips.
We eventually got him to a sleep specialist. They reviewed his meds, diet, and activity. Here's some simple things they did that helped an 85 yo man:
- remove all alcohol. None. He's never been a heavy drinker, but not even a nightly wine glass now. This seems to prevent the snap-awakes when the alcohol wears off in the middle of the night.
- dialed in/corrected meds.
- No dairy or caffeine of any kind after 4 PM. (He's a little lactose intolerant and it seems to prevent him from slipping into a deep sleep)
- No late day sweets, reduce overall sugar intake
- Set routine to his exercise and increase step count. He's always been energetic, but he's just plain old now. After the dog died last summer, he cut out some of his daily walks. They go for short daily "moseys" now.
- low dosage of melatonin as needed (if the previous night was restless)
- confirmed cpap settings were right
Some of these things he just needed to hear from a medical professional, as he knew them but was disregarding them anyway. Bless my folks, they still have the "doctor says so" mentality.
His sleep has improved, and it didn't take drastic stuff. He still has "age appropriate" problems but this part is better.
This experience (and several other old-people events in my extended family/friends) have made me re-think several things about old age and just lifestyle. I want to prepare for the eventual housebound years in a different way than I did before.
We eventually got him to a sleep specialist. They reviewed his meds, diet, and activity. Here's some simple things they did that helped an 85 yo man:
- remove all alcohol. None. He's never been a heavy drinker, but not even a nightly wine glass now. This seems to prevent the snap-awakes when the alcohol wears off in the middle of the night.
- dialed in/corrected meds.
- No dairy or caffeine of any kind after 4 PM. (He's a little lactose intolerant and it seems to prevent him from slipping into a deep sleep)
- No late day sweets, reduce overall sugar intake
- Set routine to his exercise and increase step count. He's always been energetic, but he's just plain old now. After the dog died last summer, he cut out some of his daily walks. They go for short daily "moseys" now.
- low dosage of melatonin as needed (if the previous night was restless)
- confirmed cpap settings were right
Some of these things he just needed to hear from a medical professional, as he knew them but was disregarding them anyway. Bless my folks, they still have the "doctor says so" mentality.
His sleep has improved, and it didn't take drastic stuff. He still has "age appropriate" problems but this part is better.
This experience (and several other old-people events in my extended family/friends) have made me re-think several things about old age and just lifestyle. I want to prepare for the eventual housebound years in a different way than I did before.
I normally fall asleep well and sleep restfully, but last night was a very rare and nasty misadventure.
I'm traveling and staying with various people at the moment which puts me a bit out of my normal routine. Nevertheless I mainly sleep very well in the various beds and ventilated rooms along the way.
Yesterday evening I went for a very long run, over an hour. Was very tired, thoroughly ready to sleep. Also very thirsty. At my place I would have rehydrated on cold, sparkling mineral water and perhaps eaten a grapefruit. There was none of that here, however there was a lot of refrigerated pineapple juice in a carton.
So I had to drink something and after sport prefer it to not be warm tapwater in quantity, so downed perhaps half a litre or more of the pineapple juice. Quite calorific, 50 calories per 100mL although not ultra sweet in taste.
Anyway, I could not sleep for hours and hours after that! Was very unrested today.
Pineapple juice must be high GI.
I try not to do things to spike my blood sugar, but here it happened due to a circumstance and what a negative effect on sleep..
I'm traveling and staying with various people at the moment which puts me a bit out of my normal routine. Nevertheless I mainly sleep very well in the various beds and ventilated rooms along the way.
Yesterday evening I went for a very long run, over an hour. Was very tired, thoroughly ready to sleep. Also very thirsty. At my place I would have rehydrated on cold, sparkling mineral water and perhaps eaten a grapefruit. There was none of that here, however there was a lot of refrigerated pineapple juice in a carton.
So I had to drink something and after sport prefer it to not be warm tapwater in quantity, so downed perhaps half a litre or more of the pineapple juice. Quite calorific, 50 calories per 100mL although not ultra sweet in taste.
Anyway, I could not sleep for hours and hours after that! Was very unrested today.
Pineapple juice must be high GI.
I try not to do things to spike my blood sugar, but here it happened due to a circumstance and what a negative effect on sleep..
How did it turn out for you?
It turned out well. It reduced my anxiety, waking up was more seamless as when I was up, that was generally how I felt the whole day. My sleep improved a little as well.
I lasted around 4 months, so I'm back on caffeine right now. I had a migraine and figured I could have just one coffee to help, and then revert to no caffeine.
Nope.
Planning to wean off and go without again.
I had insomnia for over 10 years and, not too long ago, when I was going through a bad patch and waking up at 3 or 4 AM, instead of lying in bed, eating, watching TV, or whatever, I prayed.
In particular, I prayed with prostrations by asking a saint to pray for my priest or bishop then I'd do one prostation.
Saint ______, pray for Father/Bishop _______.
Then I'd do a prostration, rinse and repeat.
I started with 20 and gradually increased the number of saints to a certain duration of time. Nothing super crazy, but it took an effort.
Focused noetic prayer is best, but when that kind of quality escapes me, and it usually does, I can still do quantity. I think the effort is honored if it's done for Jesus, and that's what I pray when I begin, "Jesus, please accept these prostrations for Father/Bishop _______."
Normal cautions apply: don't over-exert yourself, don't burn out, be consistent, etc.
At the same time I was doing this, I also asked the patron saint of my church, who'd helped me before, to help me with my sleep.
I don't know exactly why this combination of praying for clergy with prostrations & asking help from just one saint, who was also on the prostration list, was effective, but we often don't really know the nuts & bolts of how or why.
Anyhow, that was my cure and I don't know if it could be imitated by someone else, but perhaps it illustrates a type of prayer routine that would be beneficial.
Hope that helps.
Glory to God!
In particular, I prayed with prostrations by asking a saint to pray for my priest or bishop then I'd do one prostation.
Saint ______, pray for Father/Bishop _______.
Then I'd do a prostration, rinse and repeat.
I started with 20 and gradually increased the number of saints to a certain duration of time. Nothing super crazy, but it took an effort.
Focused noetic prayer is best, but when that kind of quality escapes me, and it usually does, I can still do quantity. I think the effort is honored if it's done for Jesus, and that's what I pray when I begin, "Jesus, please accept these prostrations for Father/Bishop _______."
Normal cautions apply: don't over-exert yourself, don't burn out, be consistent, etc.
At the same time I was doing this, I also asked the patron saint of my church, who'd helped me before, to help me with my sleep.
I don't know exactly why this combination of praying for clergy with prostrations & asking help from just one saint, who was also on the prostration list, was effective, but we often don't really know the nuts & bolts of how or why.
Anyhow, that was my cure and I don't know if it could be imitated by someone else, but perhaps it illustrates a type of prayer routine that would be beneficial.
Hope that helps.
Glory to God!
I moved in with a buddy in my younger days who live up in the mountains. One day I seen a strange bug on the floor. He told me it was an ear wig. That night I slept with ear plugs. That was 22 years ago. I've been wearing ear plugs every night since. Can't sleep well without them.
