Patriot Front (and other White Nationalist Groups)

[KomnenAl]

This does exist, but I think it's currently rare. To be very clear and specific, I disagree with @MusicForThePiano that the White race is to whom the promises given to Abraham were transferred, and I think that's very clear in the NT. That's a theological disagreement I have with him, but that doesn't mean he's not interested in Christ. Likewise with @It_Is_My_Time, I disagree with him simply because he's not Orthodox and naturally we are going to have different ecclesiological beliefs as well as soteriological and theological ones. But that doesn't mean he is disinterested in Christ.

Luke 9:50, "And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us."

As I've said before, I think there is a risk in pushing those interested in saving their ethnic nation/race away from Christianity. Those aren't mutually exclusive concepts, yet there are people here, such as @KomnenAl, an Orthodox member, who has told them it is, despite not being able to cite any councils or saints. I don't want to be the thorns that choke the plants as they sprout.

I'm not here to judge anyone's spiritual state. There's a really good chance @It_Is_My_Time, @MusicForThePiano, @KomnenAl, yourself, and @Samseau all pray more than me, give charity in secret, and are even praying for me.

Clearly there's a 34 page miscommunication going on.

From a starting point for further discussion, can we all agree to the following:

That there are physical things that we can and should do for those of us living in the world for the benefit of our health and for the wellbeing of our children and families, and that cannot be separated from actively participating in the Church and Christ's salvation?

Indeed there's miscommunication. Let me clarify my position.
The concept of patriotism is encapsulated in this commandmend: "Honor your father and your mother".

But the Lord also said( Matthew 5:30): "And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell."

And (Matthew 10:37): “Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me."

And (Luke 9:60): “Let the dead bury their own dead, but you go and proclaim the kingdom of God.”

Saint Paul (Hebrews 13:14): "For here we do not have an enduring city, but we are looking for the city that is to come."

Any attempt by Christians to "save" their nation and create an earthly Christian empire falls under the heresy of chiliasm. The only Empire that was used by Divine Providence was the Roman Empire. It was used to found and glorify the Church, but that is over now. Greeks dreaming of liberating Constantinople, Russians dreaming their old empire and the return of the Tzar, Americans dreaming of creating an earthly paradise... it's all a trap.

If we lived in decent times, under explicitly Christian rulers and Christian Law was the norm, then yes, it would be our duty to serve our nation. But this is not the case anywhere in the world now. Why expend energy on things we cannot control? We should seek the Kingdom of Heaven first and then, if it's God's will, He will grant us what we need.

Meenwhile, regarding wordly affairs, we should organize ourselves as best as we can on the basis of our faith not our blood.

 

[Samseau]

Is anyone saying anything otherwise?

Yes, you and others are misguided folks advocating for a pagan organization. Heresy and nonsense.

All we have been saying in this thread is that there is nothing wrong with both. You do both the physical and spiritual things needed. We live in the world, unfortunately. Not a monastery. Nowhere is IIMT or anyone else saying Whites don't need to repent. You're projecting that.

You aren't doing both, you are advocating for something which is contrary to Christ and therefore you will have neither. Pagan Front isn't going to deliver on physical needs. It's secular, it will deliver on empty promises. Even if Pagan Front was successful, all that would happen is the creation of Pagan Whites who would destroy themselves the following generation. It's a dead end, like all Pagan things are.

As I said in another thread I started in an attempt to keep things on topic, if someone has osteoporosis, they should lift heavy weights to regain bone density, AND pray. If I am obese, I diet, AND pray AND repent for gluttony. If I have cataracts, I go to an eye doctor, AND pray in advance that everything goes well.

Yes, and Pagan Front doesn't pray at all. They obviously believe they can do it without God, which is a lie.

Likewise, to save the White race (really I mean the individual nationalities within), we need to organize on a national basis and protect each other as an extended family, AND repent and pray and go to Church. It's not entirely one or the other. I agree with you that the White nationalities will not be saved simply through collectivized, secular means, and that it is all in God's hands, but that doesn't mean we don't stand up for ourselves in this fallen world that we are in.

Yes, which is why Pagan Front isn't an answer. There is no Church there, there is no prayer, there is no Christ or spiritual solutions to the cucked deracinated state of the White race in Pagan Front.

It's no different than any other secular organization making promises within the world. All lies.

 

[staddlelateen]

I’m glad to see the Pagan tag has been removed. That was the right thing to do.

Don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya

This message says much more about you than it does me, and I think you know that.

As I mentioned, I read this entire thread last night, and Daniel H and It is my time are the clear winners of this debate. Any impassioned and objective observer would conclude the same.

With that said, Ive been wasting too much time here, and I’ll be taking an extended hiatus from this forum. DEO GRATIS

 

[Samseau]

Well, you are not correct. The church depends upon the people, and the people depend on the church. It is a two way relationship. IF the church doesn't inspire people to join/donate, the church will cease to exist.

False. The Church depends on God, and those who come to God will be saved. The Church will always exist regardless of how many join it. That is why the Church is 2000 years old, the oldest organization on planet earth.

The Church will exist without money, without people who join. It is BECAUSE the Church does not depend on the people, that the people can depend on the Church. The Church is the pillar of God in a world of sin and debauchery, and Christ is there for all who are lost and need help (which is pretty much everyone).

The Church exists because of God, Jesus Christ, and for no other reason. Without Christ there would be no Church.

God does not need us, does not owe us anything. God gives because He is generous and Loves us, and wants us to be comforted, not because He needs us to worship Him.

The church doesn't have to get ahead of the WN movement, that is their choice. But if they don't, this energy will go some where. You are free to predict they will lose, those young White men don't care what you think. They don't get a fair shake and if the church will not fight for them, then they will go to whom will fight for them.

The Church cannot fight for those who will not fight for themselves. Those who do not join the Church are doomed, and we are watching it play out in real time in this generation.

We have never had lower religiosity today than every before - the most secular generation in history. Likewise, birthrates are at all time lows and we are headed to extinction. This is not a coincidence. Without God, the White race is committing suicide.

You keep conflating your personal beliefs and opinions with what is reality.

This is not my belief, this is objective reality and you are in denial. We are watching it in real time.

I am not saying Whites will or will not rejoin the church or do or do not need the church. I am simply saying Whites don't get a fair shake in the west to such drastic measures that they are dropping out and whomever embraces this righteous anger will control it. The church doesn't have to do so, but if they don't, it will go elsewhere.

Whites aren't going to get a fair shake until they return to God. End of story, that is reality and nothing can change it.

It seems like those who are so strongly opposed to PF don't fully realize the dire situation young White men are in. I suggest you read up on it, it will be very important to you as well.

I completely understand the dire situation, which is why I'm warning people to stay away from Pagan Front and avoid committing suicide with all of the other nonbelievers.

It is you who are ignorant of history, God, and extremely weak on faith. But God willing you too will wake up and be saved before it is too late.

 

[It_Is_My_Time]

False. The Church depends on God, and those who come to God will be saved. The Church will always exist regardless of how many join it. That is why the Church is 2000 years old, the oldest organization on planet earth.

The Church will exist without money, without people who join. It is BECAUSE the Church does not depend on the people, that the people can depend on the Church. The Church is the pillar of God in a world of sin and debauchery, and Christ is there for all who are lost and need help (which is pretty much everyone).

The Church exists because of God, Jesus Christ, and for no other reason. Without Christ there would be no Church.

God does not need us, does not owe us anything. God gives because He is generous and Loves us, and wants us to be comforted, not because he needs us to worship Him.



The Church cannot fight for those who will not fight for themselves. Those who do not join the Church are doomed, and we are watching it play out in real time in this generation.

We have never had lower religiosity today than every before - the most secular generation in history. Likewise, birthrates are at all time lows and we are headed to extinction. This is not a coincidence. Without God, the White race is committing suicide.



This is not my belief, this is objective reality and you are in denial. We are watching it in real time.



Whites aren't going to get a fair shake until they return to God. End of story, that is reality and nothing can change it.



I completely understand the dire situation, which is why I'm warning people to stay away from Pagan Front and avoid committing suicide with all of the other nonbelievers.

It is you who are ignorant of history, God, and extremely weak on faith. But God willing you too will wake up and be saved before it is too late.

I think you are conflating Christianity, the religion, with churches, which are man made buildings, with men running them. Many churches have shut down over the years. Many have been turned into Mosques. Others BLM/LGBT "churches".

If men stop attending a church, no one will pay for the upkeep and the expenses. A church must inspire men to attend it. Christianity is a completely different suspect.

Returning to God alone, isn't going to fix the political issues that are causing Whites to not get a fair shake. It will take a political battle and if the church, run by men, refuses to get involved, then the White men will form their own path. This is a very dangerous situation and one the church, man made churches, have so far made a decision to not get involved. That is 100% on them to change their behavior on the topic and they have limited time to do so.

You can call me names all you want, it doesn't bother me. You have called me all sorts of names in this thread, and I have never once called you anything disrespectful. Why don't I care? Because both I have a true deep faith in Christianity and things like that just don't bother me and I know I am correct.

You can't fight a physical battle in the spiritual world. And if the church continues to make the decision to not speak up and stand up for the discriminated, then the discriminated will simply forge their own path. You can predict their demise, but that really doesn't mean anything in the real world until it is factual or proven to be incorrect.

Is your suggestion that White men just suck it up, go to church and sit and wait for the church to decide to do something for them? Or do you think God himself will come down and remove the rampant anti-White system?

 

[DanielH]

With that said, Ive been wasting too much time here, and I’ll be taking an extended hiatus from this forum. DEO GRATIS

Thank you for your kinds words. I will be leaving the forum permanently after being accused of heresy by our resident moderator who is twisting my words and beliefs:

Yes, you and others are misguided folks advocating for a pagan organization. Heresy and nonsense.

Patriot Front is not a pagan organization (Which pantheon do they follow? Which gods?), and regardless, I never "advocated" for them, I merely expressed sympathy with the members representing a persecuted people and their goal of ending that persecution.

I'm not going to participate in a forum where my words are twisted and I am repaid with insults and lied about. There's better ways for me to use my time. I might return if @Samseau apologizes to @It_Is_My_Time for how he has treated him throughout this thread and makes a commitment to no longer insult members or so readily publicly accuse them of heresy, blasphemy, or paganism.

@KomnenAl, wanting to preserve your nation has nothing to do with the heresy of Chiliasm. You might have been thinking of the heresy of ethnophyletism.

Goodbye everyone, good luck, and have a Blessed Great Lent and Easter/Pascha.

 

[Get2choppaaa]

I think you are conflating Christianity, the religion, with churches, which are man made builds, with men running them. Many churches have shut down over the years. Many have been turned into Mosques. Others BLM/LGBT "churches".

That's not really true. As an Orthodox Christian, we don't believe there is salvation outside of the Sacraments found in the Church.

That may be subject to other's sectarian interpretation after the Great Schism and then the multitudes of sects that followed Luther et. al.

If men stop attending a church, no one will pay for the upkeep and the expenses. A church must inspire men to attend it. Christianity is a completely different suspect.

Returning to God alone, isn't going to fix the political issues that are causing Whites to not get a fair shake. It will take a political battle and if the church, run by men, refuses to get involved, then the White men will form their own path. This is a very dangerous situation and one the church, man made churches, have so far made a decision to not get involved. That is 100% on them to change their behavior on the topic and they have limited time to do so.

That's not true either. Many Churches do in fact decry migrant invasions and are pro-Nationalism. I've already shared that info here, with a couple of examples within the Orthodox Church.

You can call me names all you want, it doesn't bother me. You have called me all sorts of names in this thread, and I have never once called you anything disrespectful. Why don't I care? Because both I have a true deep faith in Christianity and things like that just don't bother me and I know I am correct.

You can't fight a physical battle in the spiritual world. And if the church continues to make the decision to not speak up and stand up for the discriminated, then the discriminated will simply forge their own path. You can predict their demise, but that really doesn't mean anything in the real world until it is factual or proven to be incorrect.

Is your suggestion that White men just suck it up, go to church and sit and wait for the church to decide to do something for them? Or do you think God himself will come down and remove the rampant anti-White system?

This is becoming such a tedious converstation. No-one is saying this.

The point some, like me, are making is that we should be making relationships in Church, and manifesting that change in your own life.

Thank you for your kinds words. I will be leaving the forum permanently after being accused of heresy by our resident moderator who is twisting my words and beliefs:


Patriot Front is not a pagan organization (Which pantheon do they follow? Which gods?), and regardless, I never "advocated" for them, I merely expressed sympathy with the members representing a persecuted people and their goal of ending that persecution.

I'm not going to participate in a forum where my words are twisted and I am repaid with insults and lied about. There's better ways for me to use my time. I might return if @Samseau apologizes to @It_Is_My_Time for how he has treated him throughout this thread and makes a commitment to no longer insult members or so readily publicly accuse them of heresy, blasphemy, or paganism.

@KomnenAl, wanting to preserve your nation has nothing to do with the heresy of Chiliasm. You might have been thinking of the heresy of ethnophyletism.

Goodbye everyone, good luck, and have a Blessed Great Lent and Easter/Pascha.

Dont bounce man.

This topic is clearly too triggering for some and is turning otherwise positive contributions from multiple parties into bickering.

Everyone, needs to tone it down a notch.

At this point its like bickering over a non-issue.... and this is absolutely not a positive way for the forum.

 

[It_Is_My_Time]

That's not really true. As an Orthodox Christian, we don't believe there is salvation outside of the Sacraments found in the Church.

That may be subject to other's sectarian interpretation after the Great Schism and then the multitudes of sects that followed Luther et. al.


That's not true either. Many Churches do in fact decry migrant invasions and are pro-Nationalism. I've already shared that info here, with a couple of examples within the Orthodox Church.

This is becoming such a tedious converstation. No-one is saying this.

The point some, like me, are making is that we should be making relationships in Church, and manifesting that change in your own life.

Dont bounce man.

This topic is clearly too triggering for some and is turning otherwise positive contributions from multiple parties into bickering.

Everyone, needs to tone it down a notch.

At this point its like bickering over a non-issue.... and this is absolutely not a positive way for the forum.

They are saying they must first return to a church. I'm not even saying this isn't true, I am just saying they will not return to a church if the church will not address the serious issues they face, or they will not just sit there. They may form their own church and push forward from there. Maybe that is God's plan after all. None of us know God's plan.

But the battle is physical, and the battle must be fought on the physical plane, and that means at some point leaving the spiritual realm to do so. It is up to the existing man run churches to decide to do so, or not.

 

[GodfatherPartTwo]

Thank you for your kinds words. I will be leaving the forum permanently after being accused of heresy by our resident moderator who is twisting my words and beliefs:


Patriot Front is not a pagan organization (Which pantheon do they follow? Which gods?), and regardless, I never "advocated" for them, I merely expressed sympathy with the members representing a persecuted people and their goal of ending that persecution.

I'm not going to participate in a forum where my words are twisted and I am repaid with insults and lied about. There's better ways for me to use my time. I might return if @Samseau apologizes to @It_Is_My_Time for how he has treated him throughout this thread and makes a commitment to no longer insult members or so readily publicly accuse them of heresy, blasphemy, or paganism.

@KomnenAl, wanting to preserve your nation has nothing to do with the heresy of Chiliasm. You might have been thinking of the heresy of ethnophyletism.

Goodbye everyone, good luck, and have a Blessed Great Lent and Easter/Pascha.

Didn't you ban people over tiny infractions compared to this? And now you're leaving because you're losing the argument against Samseau, who has not used his mod powers against you in any way?

 

[Get2choppaaa]

They are saying they must first return to a church. I'm not even saying this isn't true, I am just saying they will not return to a church if the church will not address the serious issues they face, or they will not just sit there. They may form their own church and push forward from there. Maybe that is God's plan after all. None of us know God's plan.

But the battle is physical, and the battle must be fought on the physical plane, and that means at some point leaving the spiritual realm to do so. It is up to the existing man run churches to decide to do so, or not.

Ok.... that's not what I read, so let me try again to clarify in case there is some confusion:

Yes You must first ensure your spiritual house is in order.
THEN
You may participate in any political/organizational groups you like.

That does not mean you cant participate in both.

Its like trying to start a family with out a religious shared connection. Is it possible to act and then get course corrected/guidance.... sure.... but it's more likely that people whom are already actively participating in the Church are going to have a sound mind and activities.

Unless you ascribe to the notion that being a member of a Church implies you're somehow cucked? I dont get where the issue is.

 

[It_Is_My_Time]

Ok.... that's not what I read, so let me try again to clarify in case there is some confusion:

Yes You must first ensure your spiritual house is in order.
THEN
You may participate in any political/organizational groups you like.

That does not mean you cant participate in both.

Its like trying to start a family with out a religious shared connection. Is it possible to act and then get course corrected/guidance.... sure.... but it's more likely that people whom are already actively participating in the Church are going to have a sound mind and activities.

Unless you ascribe to the notion that being a member of a Church implies you're somehow cucked? I dont get where the issue is.

Yes, and many in PF are Christians, so they are doing both currently.

With that said, I agree with you, but if the man made churches offer no solution, then the young White men will likely go on their own. This isn't some wild prediction, this is just what will hapepn.

"Then they will lose" - No, we will all lose, because it will be absolutely brutal if they do lose for the rest of us.

"But then we will all lose because they did it wrong" - Yes, but that is why it is important we put pressure on the churches to get active in this swelling energy before it is beyond their control.

That would be my best advice in this thread, not to join PF, not to support, but to light a fire under the behinds of the leaders of the church to head this off before it is too late.

 

[Samseau]

Thank you for your kinds words. I will be leaving the forum permanently after being accused of heresy by our resident moderator who is twisting my words and beliefs:


Patriot Front is not a pagan organization (Which pantheon do they follow? Which gods?), and regardless, I never "advocated" for them, I merely expressed sympathy with the members representing a persecuted people and their goal of ending that persecution.

I'm not going to participate in a forum where my words are twisted and I am repaid with insults and lied about. There's better ways for me to use my time. I might return if @Samseau apologizes to @It_Is_My_Time for how he has treated him throughout this thread and makes a commitment to no longer insult members or so readily publicly accuse them of heresy, blasphemy, or paganism.

@KomnenAl, wanting to preserve your nation has nothing to do with the heresy of Chiliasm. You might have been thinking of the heresy of ethnophyletism.

Goodbye everyone, good luck, and have a Blessed Great Lent and Easter/Pascha.

I never called you a heretic, I said promoting Pagan Front is heresy, because they are secular and advocate for something not based on God. Therefore they cannot save anyone.

I said you are misguided, because you falsely believe such organizations have your interests at heart, when in fact they are wolves in sheep's clothing. These are not insults. Moreover I have not insulted anyone in this thread - you may consider calling someone ignorant an insult, but I do not because ignorance is a condition of not knowing something. Ignorance is the natural state of man, and is not something to be ashamed of. I am also ignorant of many things. Never was my intent to denigrate anyone here, but to call attention to their blind spots so they would not be lead into Hell.

You don't have to take my word for it - go talk to a Priest or Bishop this Lent and ask him about PF, and it will be confirmed for you that it is indeed heresy.

 

[It_Is_My_Time]

Didn't you ban people over tiny infractions compared to this? And now you're leaving because you're losing the argument against Samseau, who has not used his mod powers against you in any way?

He isn't even arguing against him. No one is, we are just trying to explain to him that the young White men will act on their own if the church doesn't get involved. No one here supports PF directly or indirectly, just that we can see what is coming and telling them "to go to church" isn't going to quell their anger.

 

[DanielH]

you're losing the argument

I wish this is what losing the argument always looked like.

Moreover I have not insulted anyone in this thread

Mhmm. Bye.

 

[GodfatherPartTwo]

I wish this is what losing the argument always looked like.

Hey, it's the 30 people who you didn't ban on RVF. You're not a dumb guy, I don't need to remind you that the amount of thumbs you get on your post has nothing to do with whether your argument is logically consistent and has any explanatory power, do I?

He isn't even arguing against him. No one is, we are just trying to explain to him that the young White men will act on their own if the church doesn't get involved. No one here supports PF directly or indirectly, just that we can see what is coming and telling them "to go to church" isn't going to quell their anger.

Make no mistake, you are presenting an argument. Your argument is thus: "Unless the Church ups its wignat rhetoric, then young White men are going to turn to groups like PF." It is no different than a leftist saying: "Unless the Church ups its Social Justice rhetoric, then young people are going to turn to leftist groups."

It's the same secular arguments that are predicated on redefining the Church, and the Bible that defines it.

 

[It_Is_My_Time]

Hey, it's the 30 people who you didn't ban on RVF. You're not a dumb guy, I don't need to remind you that the amount of thumbs you get on your post has nothing to do with whether your argument is logically consistent and has any explanatory power, do I?


Make no mistake, you are presenting an argument. Your argument is thus: "Unless the Church ups its wignat rhetoric, then young White men are going to turn to groups like PF." It is no different than a leftist saying: "Unless the Church ups its Social Justice rhetoric, then young people are going to turn leftist groups."

It's the same secular arguments that are predicated on redefining the Church, and the Bible that defines it.

Yes, and both are true. But churches have upped their leftist SJW rhetoric, big time. So, the leftist views, which are supported by the state are pacified by many different denominations.

The WN views are not, so there is nothing to pacify them, correct? So, do you expect them to just be slowly killed out and do nothing?

 

[GodfatherPartTwo]

Yes, and both are true.

Even that's debatable, last I checked, young white men are doing all the marching for SJW causes. Check out the demographics for homosexuals and tell me which demographic outranks all the others.

But churches have upped their leftist SJW rhetoric, big time. So, the leftist views, which are supported by the state are pacified by many different denominations.

So why should we make the same mistake of apostasy as those churches, only under a right wing veneer?

The WN views are not, so there is nothing to pacify them, correct? So, do you expect them to just be slowly killed out and do nothing?

The only expectation I have for these groups is to walk headlong into fed entrapment. They are not going to outmuscle the power brokers. They're playing checkers when everyone is playing chess. The irony is that it will be White feds who will be delivering them to the gulag. There's a better solution to this, Christ has already given it to us, but it's the solution no one wants to hear, so now we get to watch the judgement be carried out in real time.

 

[Samseau]

I wish this is what losing the argument always looked like.


Mhmm. Bye.

I also liked that post, and I also pointed out that the saints and documents you quoted would also explicitly condemn Pagan Front. You seem to ignore that part.

Like I said, go speak to a Priest or Bishop about Pagan Front. You are wrong about the organization, no matter how you slice it.

 

[Get2choppaaa]

The only expectation I have for these groups is to walk headlong into fed entrapment. They are not going to outmuscle the power brokers. They're playing checkers when everyone is playing chess. The irony is that it will be White feds who will be delivering them to the gulag. There's a better solution to this, Christ has already given it to us, but it's the solution no one wants to hear, so now we get to watch the judgement be carried out in real time.

This tends to be my consideration also.... Knowing how infiltration works... I suspect it's prime target for subversion and co-option.

That said, I don't think there is anything wrong with advocating for preserving Anglo-identity... And it's clear there is active discrimination against Whites at nearly all level in the media and government.

Unfortunately, it only takes one event like Charlottesville, which has totally been mischaracterized to draw the ire and vilification of the left.

This group will, which may not be federally infiltrated, does serve as an element of the leftist boogeyman idea about white nationalism.

It's somewhat of a catch 22 however. Personally I share all the sentiment about the need for keeping white - Anglo identity going here in America, and I am proud of my culture, history, religion, and beliefs.

I have no issues sharing that with anyone I interact with, but I'm not inclined to get wrapped up into street activism.

 

[It_Is_My_Time]

Even that's debatable, last I checked, young white men are doing all the marching for SJW causes. Check out the demographics for homosexuals and tell me which demographic outranks all the others.


So why should we make the same mistake of apostasy as those churches, only under a right wing veneer?


The only expectation I have for these groups is to walk headlong into fed entrapment. They are not going to outmuscle the power brokers. They're playing checkers when everyone is playing chess. The irony is that it will be White feds who will be delivering them to the gulag. There's a better solution to this, Christ has already given it to us, but it's the solution no one wants to hear, so now we get to watch the judgement be carried out in real time.

Yea, white men get politically involved on both sides. This is pretty normal.

Why would you make the mistake of ending discrimination against Whites? Is this what you meant? I can't imagine being in support of discrimination against Whites to start with. Why would a church not end a satanic attack on White people?

That is if the system can continue to print money and get serious abled body men to fight for them, which both looks unlikely. And in that case, all bets are all when things collapse from within with unsustainable debt and the men who build society walking away.