Why would someone leave their native country such as US where they have gun and self-defense rights and true land ownership of large swaths of land (unlike in many other countries outside the US, it's hard to explain, here because it involves fundamentally different land ownership model and law and would take a long text) is a mystery beyond me.
Moving Abroad Before the Collapse
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Why would someone leave their native country such as US where they have gun and self-defense rights and true land ownership of large swaths of land (unlike in many other countries outside the US, it's hard to explain, here because it involves fundamentally different land ownership model and law and would take a long text) is a mystery beyond me.
Also, all governments are going to have bad and good years, they're going to ebb and flow. But when the government goes really bad, it drafts you and sends you to die somewhere, or criminal gangs invade your rural home with no punishment and you can not feel safe nowhere, not even driving down the road, or you get sent to a labor camp, or you have nothing to eat, literally and there're zero jobs but you have an option to join a cartel, your property gets confiscated overnight, or there's ethnic cleansing or drones raining and you pack up and have to leave into nothing. For the generation that had grown up in modern, largely free and safe world, it's hard to understand this. So may be one should hang on to the good stuff they got. For the Amish mentioned, the bad day of tyrannical government would come if they had pack up and run from the country, this day is not anywhere in sight. And 100 years from now...no one knows what's that far ahead. Right now entire world is going downhill, and new world order stuff is seen in every country, the safe place is that world is what one can carve out for themselves in that chaos, like Amish do.
Because there are more important things to life than just guns and land. Would you rather live somewhere dangerous where you can own a gun, or would you rather live somewhere safe where you don't need one?
And what do I even need large swathes of land for unless I'm a farmer. Allowing it so easily allows oligarchs like Bill Gates to buy up all our land for who knows what demonic reason.
America is not dangerous.
I know what's "dangerous", as a full time overland traveler: thanks to gun rights the US is one of the safest places on earth outside big city ghettos which I never visit and not sure why anyone would visit them.
As to land - may be some like to live in cities but some of us like to own a lot of forest land and don't need to farm on it. That's exactly what they say in Soviet type cultures, no need to own much land unless you're a farmer, that's what makes America so great, lack of this mentality. It's not Bill Gates it's regular Americans who own a bunch of land and live on it.
With govt regulations and taxes, the true ownership of anything is quite disputable.
So here are my observations regarding dating in the Balkans (ex Yugoslavia in particular) after spending a little over two months there. I currently only have access to a company PC so I'll write this on my phone. Sorry if it looks kind of messed up.
1. Divorce
Divorce rates are up in the Balkans, like everywhere else too. Most guys, however, told me that it's mainly due to domestic violence and women simply freeing themselves from those kind of men. They say it's not necessarily related to eroding values. However, they acknowledge the reality of hypergamy, social media etc.
2. Dating
One key difference I noticed is that many women have an overly idealistic and romanticized view of love. I'm not saying that's negative, however, it takes some time to adjust to.
The reason is simply that a lot of the women that live in smaller cities and towns (essentially the majority) really don't go out at all. They don't have clubs or just avoid them like the plague. This is obviously a great thing, BUT it means that their concept of love and dating is basically what is transmitted via movies and series. For example the idea that the man has to get rejected by the same girl many times before finally making a breakthrough, the man has to state his desires very clearly and multiple times, the man does romantic stuff, like sing songs etc. Also, the belief that she will casually meet the man of her dreams at a bus stop or the grocery store just like in the movies.
Take everything I just said with a grain of salt, because it obviously doesn't apply to all women there, but there are a ton of them it does apply to.
Furthermore, these women have a desire to share what they're doing with you. They might send you pictures of the meal they just cooked, they might send you pictures of their family members that you haven't even met etc.
Keep in mind that those girls aren't submissive. If you're very friendly, they'll be very friendly too. Of course, they understand gender roles, nevertheless, being a submissive/obedient woman is clearly not their preferred role. If you push that boundary too much, you'll get dumped almost instantly.
3. Benefit of being a foreigner
There obviously aren't many western expats in that area. Many immigrants have come in from Russia / Ukraine. Many people seemed genuinely interested to know where I was from. The fact that I put in the effort to learn the language definitely helped and got me invited to spontaneous meals and drinks.
Some girls couldn't hide the fact that my passport was what interested them the most. Unfortunately, they seemed like gold diggers and resented their country. I personally preferred those who viewed me somewhat neutrally.
4. My overall take
I was overwhelmed by the romantic small city girls. Their attention felt truly genuine and is something I've never experienced in the west. While I was there it was also evident that thoughts of marriage, having kids, getting old with my spouse etc. crossed my mind on a daily basis.
1. Divorce
Divorce rates are up in the Balkans, like everywhere else too. Most guys, however, told me that it's mainly due to domestic violence and women simply freeing themselves from those kind of men. They say it's not necessarily related to eroding values. However, they acknowledge the reality of hypergamy, social media etc.
2. Dating
One key difference I noticed is that many women have an overly idealistic and romanticized view of love. I'm not saying that's negative, however, it takes some time to adjust to.
The reason is simply that a lot of the women that live in smaller cities and towns (essentially the majority) really don't go out at all. They don't have clubs or just avoid them like the plague. This is obviously a great thing, BUT it means that their concept of love and dating is basically what is transmitted via movies and series. For example the idea that the man has to get rejected by the same girl many times before finally making a breakthrough, the man has to state his desires very clearly and multiple times, the man does romantic stuff, like sing songs etc. Also, the belief that she will casually meet the man of her dreams at a bus stop or the grocery store just like in the movies.
Take everything I just said with a grain of salt, because it obviously doesn't apply to all women there, but there are a ton of them it does apply to.
Furthermore, these women have a desire to share what they're doing with you. They might send you pictures of the meal they just cooked, they might send you pictures of their family members that you haven't even met etc.
Keep in mind that those girls aren't submissive. If you're very friendly, they'll be very friendly too. Of course, they understand gender roles, nevertheless, being a submissive/obedient woman is clearly not their preferred role. If you push that boundary too much, you'll get dumped almost instantly.
3. Benefit of being a foreigner
There obviously aren't many western expats in that area. Many immigrants have come in from Russia / Ukraine. Many people seemed genuinely interested to know where I was from. The fact that I put in the effort to learn the language definitely helped and got me invited to spontaneous meals and drinks.
Some girls couldn't hide the fact that my passport was what interested them the most. Unfortunately, they seemed like gold diggers and resented their country. I personally preferred those who viewed me somewhat neutrally.
4. My overall take
I was overwhelmed by the romantic small city girls. Their attention felt truly genuine and is something I've never experienced in the west. While I was there it was also evident that thoughts of marriage, having kids, getting old with my spouse etc. crossed my mind on a daily basis.
Congratulations to @Droughtmeat and @Australia Sucks for getting out of the comfort zone and exploring a bit. Good luck to you both.
Ever seen The Quiet American? If you like intimate Michael Caine films, it's well worth checking out...especially for you since you lived over there. Caine is an ex-pat reporter living overseas in Vietnam and caught in the middle of a war and a love triangle. I'd give it a 7.5/10 primarily for Caine's usual stellar acting. Every time I watch it, I feel a bit romantic about moving there myself and finding a bride.
Thank you so much for taking the time to post your experiences. I spent 3 weeks in Kosovo and have now spent a week in north Macedonia and am still here. Some things you say are similar to experiences I had whereas other points are very different. Can you provide more detail about which Balkan countries (and which cities) you went to, did you speak their language, how did you meet girls, do you have any Balkan ancestry, etc.
1) Yes divorce rates have been creeping up. Partly because young people are more secular. In general women under 40 are mostly only nominal Christians (or nominal muslims) in the Balkans. Practising Christians and practising Muslim’s are not common among the young population. I would say 10 - 20% maybe (still an order of magnitude higher than the west though).
Also glorification of thug culture among the youths is a huge problem in the Balkans. Even many girls here agreed or commented themselves that it’s common for younger women to like thug men.
Yesterday I was having a conversation with a girl in North Macedonia who perhaps couldn’t fully express herself in English but without me even prompting the topic she said “I don’t why but many girls here like men who are not polite”.
Here also many girls here spoke about “trust issues” due to “trauma” from dating bad men. Because again girls here are attracted to loser thug guys and then they cry about it later (the boring accountant doesn’t give make their vagina tingle). Again this type of nonsense is what happens in modern societies when women are allowed to have freedom
Again women are like children no matter which country you go to which is why they should not be allowed to vote or decide who they can marry. This wouldn’t happen if their fathers decided who they could marry.
A typical Balkans girl who married a local Gopnik/thug type of guy will then ask for a divorce after her husband beats her or cheats on her. If you marry a low IQ thug what do you expect will happen?
I would say in general quality of young women in the Balkans is very high on average whereas quality of young men is very low on average. It’s a huge mismatch.
Just like in the west there is a huge mismatch but in the opposite direction. In the west the quality of the average western man is much higher than the quality of the average western woman. Western women are garbage tier.
2) I agree that girls here think they have to play hard to get and keep rejecting the guy and that he should keep persisting for months or even years to show he is serious. Men here simp by accepting these games and hence the cycle is perpetuated.
I disagree strongly about the casually meeting part because whenever I tried to meet girls here at a coffee shop or bus stop etc they would always refuse to later go on a date with me on the basis of “I don’t know you”. This is even when I changed tactics and tried to invite them to come with their friends so they feel more secure.
Here in the Balkans you either have to know a girl already for 6 months (e.g studying at the same university or working at the same job etc) or be introduced and vouched for by a family member or close friend. Without that it’s almost impossible to get dates here. Balkans girls are very closed minded about meeting new men. Again can you specify which countries and cities you were meeting these girls?
3) Which countries in the Balkans did you visit? In Kosovo and North Macedonia I had the opposite experience to you where basically girls prefer the local guys and being a foreigner was a huge disadvantage. Also people in general mostly don’t care where I am from and rarely ask. In Kosovo even I took some Albanian learns and started to talk in Albanian. Not only did I not get invited to anything but everyone always refused my invitations to things.
4) In Kosovo and North Macedonia I felt girls were quite cold in general albeit less cold than a western girl so again I had a different experience to you.
What you are saying reminds me of the Groucho Marx saying 'I wouldn't want to belong to a club that would have me as a member'.
How exactly do you plan to fit into a society that doesn’t accept outsiders easily? What is the strategy to overcome this hurdle?
I will just add that Balkan customer service standards are pretty low and employees can be rude and argumentative if there is a problem. Something to consider if you are living there long term.
Great observations.
I was in Serbia, Montenegro, Bosnia (Christian part), Croatia.
Interesting that you were in kosovo around the Albanians. I would never consider pursuing those women. Serbs generally consider them to be extreme, for obvious reasons.
1. As far as thug culture/trust issues is concerned, some of the girls I met told me ex Yugoslavian men tend to cheat, once their wife or girlfriend gets pregnant. Thus, the women inherently fear that situation.
Apart from that, I'm pretty sure the "bad boy" has his appeal and rarely lacks female companionship. However, I essentially never saw a guy raise his voice around a woman and those in relationships with pretty girls essentially were friendly guys.
Also, just as a thought, wouldn't a "thug" in kosovo represent a rebel or Robin hood kind of person that breaks the rules to reach his goal? Therefore, he represents what Kosovo Albanians did to get independence. And is basically a hero.
2. Regarding what you said about simping, I feel as though it's a tricky word in this context. In Europe if a girl makes you pursue her for 6 months and puts you in the friendzone, she's most likely seeing other guys and using you for attention.
That's where that romantic movie element comes in. A girl will give you her undivided attention for those 6 months, but she will expect yours too.
Just as an example, a girl I met from a town near Novi Sad (Serbia) would send me audio messages singing stuff to me. She would also record videos of herself talking about me (essentially just saying nice things). I didn't even know how to reciprocate. In the west singing to a girl you just met would obviously be considered simp behavior. But does this terminology apply here? This girl would also always tell me exactly what she was doing, never left me on read even once etc.
And, no, she wasn't the only one like that, though her videos were the longest. Admittedly, I wouldn't believe what I just wrote, if I randomly read it on the internet. Like I said in my previous post, take it all with a grain of salt.
3. Language/being a foreigner/random invites
As mentioned above, I don't know much about Albanians. Serbs/Christians, however, seemed intrigued when they heard me speak their language. Not everyone, of course. But there were times when I'd order food in their language at a restaurant and then the waiter would inform his colleagues that I spoke Serbian, despite being a foreigner. Afterwards, a bunch of waiters would show up to see for themselves what all the fuss was about.
I go to the gym and I play team sports, like volleyball and basketball. Anyone who plays those sports knows that you can travel the world and basically play them anywhere on earth without knowing anyone. Therefore, meeting people has never been an issue, although I generally tend to be more quiet. After playing in Montenegro and southern Serbia, I would get invited to free drinks and even got a meal or two out of it. I would have liked to pay, but they simply wouldn't let me. Those guys didn't take long to ask me about politics and the jab too.
At the gym in Bosnia I asked a dude if he was still using the squat rack. A few minutes later another guy showed up and wanted to shake my hand. He also introduced me to his son.
But, at the same time, I got the impression that they view most foreigners somewhat equally.
To them Germans/Italians/Americans/ Africans are all more or less equal. Some told me that it has to do with the impression that Serbs are depicted negatively in the west and with the fact that they feel alienated by the progressive western values. In addition, they don’t have many refugees walking around so even the blacks that are there generally just try to work and integrate.
Interestingly, though the Russians are orthodox too, Serbs complain about their reluctance to learn Serbian and some compared them to the Chinese in that regard. Furthermore, many of those Russians are more left leaning and reject Putin. That's why they left the country.
As Pointy Elbows said, it took me out of my comfort zone and made me realize how much, at least for me personally, I live in a bubble in the west.
Wow that’s interesting what you are saying because most reports I’ve heard from guys who went to Serbia is that it’s hard to get dates and Serbian girls tend to be harsh and standoffish. Of course less harsh than western girls but still they are known for being difficult. I guess I will have to check it out for myself.
Interesting angle with the team sports and the gym as I haven’t done those things while overseas before. Something to think about.
That’s cool that Serbians were so impressed that you spoke Serbian. I’ll have to hit up Serbia one day and take some language lessons there and see if it helps me.
How did you find Montenegro, Bosnia and Croatia? How did they compares versus Serbia and what were the noticeable differences? How long did you stay in each country for?
Interesting angle with the team sports and the gym as I haven’t done those things while overseas before. Something to think about.
That’s cool that Serbians were so impressed that you spoke Serbian. I’ll have to hit up Serbia one day and take some language lessons there and see if it helps me.
How did you find Montenegro, Bosnia and Croatia? How did they compares versus Serbia and what were the noticeable differences? How long did you stay in each country for?
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This sounds like western bias and projection.
Let’s make a couple general assumptions.
- We think western women are whores.
- We think western women are difficult.
- We adjusted our behavior to reflect this reality.
- We have self-defence mechanism to protect our bruised pride and ego.
- Traditional women don’t behave like whores.
- Traditional women are easy to get.
- You can behave the same way as you do in the west but with different result, since you’re in a new place surely everything will be different.
- You can continue to be defensive because it can’t hurt to protect yourself?
So going to a foreign country like a stooge; super guarded, suspicious, distant, ready to bail on everything - is not going to work. Just like it doesn’t work at home. If you’re going to a different country, you should be going as a new you. I’m not directing it at you but just something I’ve seen. Western guys going around the world and starting and finishing each interaction with “hello”. Women being standoffish is not something you should be worried about if you believe they’re wife material. Are they suppose to propose to you?
You're in here too stinking up this thread with the virgin 'wife' search?
I challenge you to get a virgin wife search reference into the DIY car maintenance thread.
If you find wife material there. What will you do? Live there? Bring her to Australia? Will you be willing to live in the balkans? Or if you bring her to Australia won´t she be corrupted?
If I wind a wife material girl I will live in her country. It would be suicide to bring her to Australia to get corrupted.
El Dorado
Other Christian
Indeed, i think that he's referring to the concept of allodial title, which doesn't exist in the USA or the British Commonwealth.
Don't worry, with time she'll force you to move back to Australia, if you can afford housing there of course, they aren't fools to rot in their home country if there's a chance to live decent life in the 1st world country
Allodial title does not exist anywhere in the world anymore. There might be some tiny unique pockets left but these lands aren't accessible to the common man.