Moving Abroad Before the Collapse

[Blade Runner]

One's geographical location, financial situation, and relationship status are not the keys to a happy, productive life.

We can see your main point without the hyperbole. Reasoning by extreme, a useful tactic, shows this comment of yours to be fairly ridiculous.

On balance, a better geography, better finances, and good marriage will absolutely increase your quality of life. A lot of times Christians go too far with the suffering or guilt stuff. Should we not strive to make life as good as we can? Of course we should. What we shouldn't do, however, is make or set up idols - rather give glory to God. If you get too caught up in the transactional nature of God, life and salvation that might exist in some compartment of our mind, you'll lose the totality of how we should see life. If suffering must come, it must come, but it's not like we don't know what's good as a human, and we shouldn't be "rooting" for suffering as a way to somehow think we'll be "saved" because of it.

 

[PurpleUrkel]

The grass is greener, as a matter of fact, as Australia says

That's your experience and I believe you, but that's not everyone's experience. Cliches exist for a reason. "The grass is always greener on the other side" is as truthful of an existential human trap as, "If you tell one lie you will have to tell another." I don't make the rules, I just recognize patterns.

You are using it in a way that suggests that one shouldn't leave America. I don't find that wise.

Please try to argue the topic. The topic is not me. In addition, I have suggested no such thing, I've merely stated that you could do worse than the US and Australia and that they are not hell on earth that one must flee immediately. Just do like the Amish, don't watch TV or have internet or pay attention to the news and live amongst beautiful natural scenery and one's life in America (or Australia) will dramatically improve. This seems less costly and more efficient than learning a new language and uprooting one's life just to find some mythical land where the government doesn't intrude on your life and where 20-year age gaps are culturally celebrated with glee.

 

[PurpleUrkel]

We can see your main point without the hyperbole. Reasoning by extreme, a useful tactic, shows this comment of yours to be fairly ridiculous.

Again, I'm not understanding the focus on me personally? It's fine if you think my opinions are hyperbole but state the counter argument without the "YOU messages."

On balance, a better geography, better finances, and good marriage will absolutely increase your quality of life.

This is better, appreciate it. Agreed.

 

[paternos]

The more i think about I think moving is a destructive action.

Disconnected from family / friends / your past.

Seeking salvation in the world, instead of seeking salvation in God.

It's cosmopolitism that many are criticizing, those that have no ground, or family.

I just don't believe (in general) it's going to be a wise move.

 

[Rax Moscow]

I would bet that most Amish in America do not know much about the US government much less do they frame its existence as being "tyrannical."

The average Amish certainly spends very little time ever thinking about government, and are much better off for it.

But to the degree they have any interaction at all with government, it is always negative, and thus they likely do frame it as nothing but tyranny.

If you are Amish, government isn't going to do anything for you, but it's going to: harass you about selling raw milk, demand licenses and fees if you want to sell furniture or dairy products you make, harass you for not getting your barns inspected by them, push you to get jabbed, start conflicts and wars in foreign places that make you less safe, and make products you buy more expensive (there are some Amish crossovers into the capitalist world).

Amish raw milk farmer in central Pa. loses bid to stay in business without permits

The state says milk from Amos Miller's farm is linked to sicknesses; supporters have flooded him with donations, saying he's a victim of an out-of-control government.

www.pennlive.com

Judge Rejects Challenge to NY Schoolchildren Vaccination Law

An amended New York state law requiring vaccination of schoolchildren that repealed the law’s previous religious exemption in order to contain a measles outbreak doesn’t violate the First Amendment rights of the Amish, a federal judge said.

news.bloomberglaw.com

When every interaction you have with a group is negative, you tend to think very negatively of that group.

 

[paternos]

The average Amish certainly spends very little time ever thinking about government, and are much better off for it.

But to the degree they have any interaction at all with government, it is always negative, and thus they likely do frame it as nothing but tyranny.

If you are Amish, government isn't going to do anything for you, but it's going to: harass you about selling raw milk, demand licenses and fees if you want to sell furniture or dairy products you make, harass you for not getting your barns inspected by them, push you to get jabbed, start conflicts and wars in foreign places that make you less safe, and make products you buy more expensive (there are some Amish crossovers into the capitalist world).

Amish raw milk farmer in central Pa. loses bid to stay in business without permits

The state says milk from Amos Miller's farm is linked to sicknesses; supporters have flooded him with donations, saying he's a victim of an out-of-control government.

www.pennlive.com

Judge Rejects Challenge to NY Schoolchildren Vaccination Law

An amended New York state law requiring vaccination of schoolchildren that repealed the law’s previous religious exemption in order to contain a measles outbreak doesn’t violate the First Amendment rights of the Amish, a federal judge said.

news.bloomberglaw.com

When every interaction you have with a group is negative, you tend to think very negatively of that group.

Exactly.

Which is how everyone should react to the mafia called state.

The thing is the (international) government has millions of employees. That only have 1 intent "make sure the scam goes on".

They own and populate all the propaganda channels. They feed and house a whole class of degenerates which they set up to hard workers.

Keeps surprising me how my fellow coutrymen keep defending the mafia

 

[Blade Runner]

The more i think about I think moving is a destructive action.

Disconnected from family / friends / your past.

Seeking salvation in the world, instead of seeking salvation in God.

It's cosmopolitism that many are criticizing, those that have no ground, or family.

I just don't believe (in general) it's going to be a wise move.

We've been through this before. You don't have to go whole hog, in any case. Our own country, or the world, or globalists, or whomever made the world this way and you guys who talk like this act like those of us who have done the work but are locked out of any good looking or young women, should just accept the bad of globalism but shouldn't use it to our advantage, which isn't easy. in general, but the more desirable women do exist elsewhere to a larger degree (and it's not like the west is Christian any longer either, confirming the whole point here). Why wouldn't you use all opportunities that are available? It's like saying the world is out there for you, for some a better world (no, not all) but you shouldn't take advantage ... because I said so. It's weird, to be quite honest, and I've never understood it - especially for a man. Imagine someone telling you for anything else, "Oh, my dude, that's just your lot in life. Just accept it" when you knew you didn't have to. See what I mean?

 

[Northern Pilgrim]

The more i think about I think moving is a destructive action.

Disconnected from family / friends / your past.

Seeking salvation in the world, instead of seeking salvation in God.

It's cosmopolitism that many are criticizing, those that have no ground, or family.

I just don't believe (in general) it's going to be a wise move.

You certainty do make a good point here, but what about all of the folks who left the 'old world' to come to America in the first place? Sure there were some whole groups like the Pilgrims that uprooted and there are stories of families doing the same, but in general the majority probably would have been young, single men.
Were they wrong for seeking a better life?
When is it acceptable to seek different circumstances?
At what point is moving abroad the right move for a Christian man?

 

[Blade Runner]

but what about all of the folks who left the 'old world' to come to America in the first place?

I brought all of these points up. They don't have an answer to them. I find it weird.

The next thing they'll tell you is that you should just pray to God so that a woman pops up out of nowhere, even though the women in your country are not very godly, or willing ... lol

We even show how silly it is by using another real life example: finding a job. Yes, you can pray for something to pop up, but someone would think you're really out there if you didn't also hit the pavement, seek, ask, find - do the work, you know? They make God a "fairy godmother" type at times. It's quite bizarre.

 

[analyst_green]

I brought all of these points up. They don't have an answer to them. I find it weird.

The next thing they'll tell you is that you should just pray to God so that a woman pops up out of nowhere, even though the women in your country are not very godly, or willing ... lol

We even show how silly it is by using another real life example: finding a job. Yes, you can pray for something to pop up, but someone would think you're really out there if you didn't also hit the pavement, seek, ask, find - do the work, you know? They make God a "fairy godmother" type at times. It's quite bizarre.

Step 1 to finding a job would be to pray as you would before any big task. Step 2 is hit the pavement and put all your heart into it. But sometimes you won't find a job in your town.

Imagine you're trying to be a petroleum engineer with a shiny new degree from Iowa State, but you're committed to living back home in Corn City. You tried your luck with those one or two coveted spots at the local ethanol plant but the competition was too much. So what's left is changing tractor engine oil. But you don't want to work on tractors, you want to work on an oil rig and there ain't none of those near Corn City. So then you either give up on your dreams, pray for God to grant Iowa a sudden oil rush, or you take Step 3 and you move to coastal Texas or Louisiana or wherever the going is good.

 

[paternos]

You certainty do make a good point here, but what about all of the folks who left the 'old world' to come to America in the first place? Sure there were some whole groups like the Pilgrims that uprooted and there are stories of families doing the same, but in general the majority probably would have been young, single men.
Were they wrong for seeking a better life?

I think it was wrong in most cases.

What happened? I have seen this from my grandparents family (Europeans moving to Canada and the US). The older brothers that left, left their little sisters at home, left their parents and didn't care for them when they grew older and later died. At max they returned a few times in their lifes. Cut off from their roots. As their new life was now somewhere else. My grandather lost an older brother, the one he loved most, in his adolescence.

It atomized people.

It didn't improve their spiritual life in most cases, the move was intended to improve worldly pleasure.

I spoke to some and they said, "we went for a better future", and they expected here to be a lot worse than it was in reality.

When is it acceptable to seek different circumstances?
At what point is moving abroad the right move for a Christian man?

We need to get that clear with God ourselves.

But when I look at the people that want to move, they are either fearful (everything will go down and i need to be out) or lustful (if I go there I will get a hot traditional woman who will cook and be happy and get laughing babies who will love me, making that potential woman their idol) or greedy (I can go to paraguay and energy is cheaper and I install some GPUs and make easy money).

Most migrants in my country come for free stuff (the so called war fugitives, the 20 year old strrong Africans) or low taxes (the so called higly skilled migrants from India). All greed and lust.

Missionairies also moved abroad to spread the word. Which is good generally.

I guess we need to reflect. If it is lust, greed or fear driving us, it's generally a bad idea. And that's 90% of what I see in this thread and in society. Idolizing women from another country, fear for the "destruction", or pure greed / lust.

People need to get it clear with God themselves. He will judge.

Deeper down I guess it doesn't matter that much where you live, it's more how you live, and many they think they will change when they move abroad, I think most don't, they are the problem themselves not the location.

 

[Valentin Pearson]

We can see your main point without the hyperbole. Reasoning by extreme, a useful tactic, shows this comment of yours to be fairly ridiculous.

On balance, a better geography, better finances, and good marriage will absolutely increase your quality of life. A lot of times Christians go too far with the suffering or guilt stuff. Should we not strive to make life as good as we can? Of course we should. What we shouldn't do, however, is make or set up idols - rather give glory to God. If you get too caught up in the transactional nature of God, life and salvation that might exist in some compartment of our mind, you'll lose the totality of how we should see life. If suffering must come, it must come, but it's not like we don't know what's good as a human, and we shouldn't be "rooting" for suffering as a way to somehow think we'll be "saved" because of it.

I agree. Life is meant to be good. Let bad things come when they must, but in the meantime there's no need to be a martyr. How can you get through bad times if you're not geared towards good times? Money is good, stuff is good, fulfilling the senses is good, it's all good baby, as long as you take a moment to give a thumbs up to the one who makes it possible. God doesn't want a bunch of miserable people skulking around His planet. It lowers the tone.

 

[Blade Runner]

I agree. Life is meant to be good. Let bad things come when they must, but in the meantime there's no need to be a martyr. How can you get through bad times if you're not geared towards good times? Money is good, stuff is good, fulfilling the senses is good, it's all good baby, as long as you take a moment to give a thumbs up to the one who makes it possible. God doesn't want a bunch of miserable people skulking around His planet. It lowers the tone.

Yes. There is a fine balance here, of course. I think what bothers us, Valentin, is that we perceive that some (maybe not many, I'm not sure) use the teachings of the Lord and the reality of suffering in the world to virtue signal a type of goodness. We see, I would argue clearly, that you can have all sorts of good characteristics and wealth, and still act with faith and repentance. I don't presume it's easy to be someone that has far less talents than I do, but it's almost an irrelevant point - we all have to deal with what we've got, make good with what we've got, and hopefully be more positive in the way we act. Finding a balance in life, being fun but principled, firm but loving, etc is what everyone should strive for.

 

[Blade Runner]

I think it was wrong in most cases.

I agree with you. I've joked that many immigrants played themselves in that I've met kids of traditional families and mothers that could cook clean and do all the right things, only to have career women daughters, for example. It was both funny and sad; funny because they seem oblivious to all of it, and sad for obvious reasons.

The problem is that you're not seeing the big picture here. That cat is out of the bag. We can't put the immigrant to America genie back in the bottle. So you are confirming that you have this poor take on things yet again, which is - just suck it up and be content with losing your lineage! Be a martyr! Fight like a sucker for a country that is ruled by antichristian people lol

Come on, man. The world is ebb and flow. We can think about ideals, but we should do so reasonably. People respond to incentive, not to advice that is akin to "just give up."

 

[Laner]

I agree with you. I've joked that many immigrants played themselves in that I've met kids of traditional families and mothers that could cook clean and do all the right things, only to have career women daughters, for example. It was both funny and sad; funny because they seem oblivious to all of it, and sad for obvious reasons.

The problem is that you're not seeing the big picture here. That cat is out of the bag. We can't put the immigrant to America genie back in the bottle. So you are confirming that you have this poor take on things yet again, which is - just suck it up and be content with losing your lineage! Be a martyr! Fight like a sucker for a country that is ruled by antichristian people lol

Come on, man. The world is ebb and flow. We can think about ideals, but we should do so reasonably. People respond to incentive, not to advice that is akin to "just give up."

It can certainly work both ways though too. My wife's mother was a career woman in her home country and had high hopes for her daughter to also become successful on her own, but when she became a stay at home mother her mother also supported this decision whole heartedly. And now as parents age into death, I think they appreciate it far more than words will ever describe.

I think people change when there is something to change toward. Give people a better option and they will take it, but lack of any better option and they will continue on the same path. As a father, I am certainly praising the Christian family with children as the cure to much of what ails the current decline.

 

[Blade Runner]

It can certainly work both ways though too. My wife's mother was a career woman in her home country and had high hopes for her daughter to also become successful on her own, but when she became a stay at home mother her mother also supported this decision whole heartedly. And now as parents age into death, I think they appreciate it far more than words will ever describe.

I'm happy for her, and that makes sense, but because humans are humans and most people either want to believe the lie or fit in, your story is very rare. Something drastic may change things, but not in enough time for me, so I'll talk about it open and honestly until then.

 

[Laner]

I'm happy for her, and that makes sense, but because humans are humans and most people either want to believe the lie or fit in, your story is very rare. Something drastic may change things, but not in enough time for me, so I'll talk about it open and honestly until then.

Most good things like this are rare, yes. But that should come as no surprise to anyone who is paying attention. In fact, our whole way of thinking has become rare, but that does not make it less right.

Keep talking and don't hold back. This course we are on is not inevitable.

 

[Tippy]

I brought all of these points up. They don't have an answer to them. I find it weird.

The next thing they'll tell you is that you should just pray to God so that a woman pops up out of nowhere, even though the women in your country are not very godly, or willing ... lol

We even show how silly it is by using another real life example: finding a job. Yes, you can pray for something to pop up, but someone would think you're really out there if you didn't also hit the pavement, seek, ask, find - do the work, you know? They make God a "fairy godmother" type at times. It's quite bizarre.

Why haven't you moved abroad yet?

If you are staying in US for work/money then there you go, that takes priority for you no matter how much you argue for something different.

The whole idea of 'I need to save X amount and THEN I'll move' is very Lenny's rabbits from Of mice and men. There will always be some kind of reason to stay. But we aren't getting any younger.

Also I'm not even saying staying for money is wrong.. There obviously are strong arguments on both sides but there seems to be a need to prove the other side 'wrong' even from people who haven't even moved abroad and therefore do not live out their own ideals.

 

[Blade Runner]

Also I'm not even saying staying for money is wrong.. There obviously are strong arguments on both sides but there seems to be a need to prove the other side 'wrong' even from people who haven't even moved abroad and therefore do not live out their own ideals.

Fair enough, but perhaps you can help then, Tippy. What would be your strategy?

Throw caution to the wind and go instantly to a new place without planning? That seems to be your gotcha here, which is fine, but of course we all know no one would do that. Therefore, if the answer is something different, lay it out. Thank you.

 

[PurpleUrkel]

Fair enough, but perhaps you can help then, Tippy. What would be your strategy?

The condescending "know it all" drippiness of this response speaks for itself. Sometimes one can admit that they are wrong even when they are not just to build good will.

Throw caution to the wind and go instantly to a new place without planning? That seems to be your gotcha here...

No, this seems to be your reverse "gotcha." One poster is posting in good faith, and another is not.

... which is fine, but of course we all know no one would do that. Therefore, if the answer is something different, lay it out. Thank you.

Is it really "fine," or is this condescending sarcasm? It has already been laid out. There are no places where a 40 something year-old man can score a hot virgin 20 year-old with the full blessing of her 39 year-old parents. Read em' and weep.