Monk Mode Celibacy

[Samseau]

I'm curious as to what you and others think about the refusal of Orthodox clergy (in America, I'm sure this doesn't happen in other countries but it likely doesn't have to given their culture grounding and tradition) to directly address the issue of women and modernity.

In my experience, the Orthodox Church is one of the few institutions that condemn feminism and instruct women to obey their husbands. However, the Orthodox Church still yields to popular issues feminists want:

- Women in college
- Delayed marriage
- Few consequences for Adultery, 2nd marriages are very common

Other than that, even in the most liberal of parishes I still find basic Orthodox teaching intact. Just recently the new Metropolitan of Antiochians in America issued a decree to forbid any female altar servers, and it is being enforced. I actually saw it cause a small commotion at a liberal parish, with some members threatening to quit (lol) because girls couldn't do the altar thing.

So, I think relative to the rest of society Orthodoxy is outstanding, however, more must be done and it is dawning on the clergy that the issues can no longer be ignored. Speaking out against the culture of secularism must include a condemnation of college for girls, but, doing this is almost impossible in the current environment. Everyone wants their daughter to be "successful" and money is the only measure of that.

Since money does control the behavior of most, and since the allocation of money is political, it is very unlikely the Church can do anything except speak out against the current college scam. Unless more people become Christians, it is not going to change soon and any man who tries to raise a family as sole breadwinner has to climb a very steep hill (and is impossible for most). Going back to single breadwinners would be feasible if it was politically mandated somehow, otherwise the cheap easy loans to go to school for the mythical paycheck will be too strong a lure.

It's a garbage situation but blaming the Church makes little sense, for the people left the Church not the other way around. I do believe that on mothers day, usually you can find many Orthodox priests praising the role of mothers, but few talking about how motherhood is becoming fewer and fewer. So the Church can do more but they are still far improved over 95% of society.

 

[Blade Runner]

Other than that, even in the most liberal of parishes I still find basic Orthodox teaching intact.

Overall, you understand the main points of my posts and in general, my thinking regarding the issues at hand. We have a hard line on things like this, which of course is important, but ultimately is only representative of a "final line"more than anything. That's valuable, but you could also look at it as a place where it actually destroys anyone who tries it, as they clearly aren't orthodox, and thus that rogue faction goes dead sooner than later. I don't even want that to happen, but the other things you point out are vague at best (nod nod, yes I obey my husband) and when everyone goes back for the week/6 days of secularism - again this is the point - they return to phones, boss girl, tik tok, college, city living, and eventual transformation into a cat lady. I'm not promoting anything here but clearly a fix on that would only be if parents also held a line and cut daughters off if they do their own thing, which would mean they'd need a man. Dangerous, but the family, mom and dad (sometimes the wife makes the dad's strictness harder because she's spoiled with $ too) backstop the daughters in so many of these cases if you are part of the middle class or higher cohort.

So the Church can do more but they are still far improved over 95% of society.

Yes, but that's like saying you're the tallest midget. If we don't have kids, no more church for a large swath of europeans, less orthodoxy in general, or it possibly could be subsumed by converts, who to be honest may be the deserving ones. As you know, I think things are out of ecological balance, so any frustration with this may be in vain or irrelevant, to be honest. What's more, a counter would be that you don't want to marry the largely lazy, spoiled daughter anyway ... sigh

 

[analyst_green]

In my experience, the Orthodox Church is one of the few institutions that condemn feminism and instruct women to obey their husbands. However, the Orthodox Church still yields to popular issues feminists want:

- Women in college
- Delayed marriage
- Few consequences for Adultery, 2nd marriages are very common

Other than that, even in the most liberal of parishes I still find basic Orthodox teaching intact. Just recently the new Metropolitan of Antiochians in America issued a decree to forbid any female altar servers, and it is being enforced. I actually saw it cause a small commotion at a liberal parish, with some members threatening to quit (lol) because girls couldn't do the altar thing.

So, I think relative to the rest of society Orthodoxy is outstanding, however, more must be done and it is dawning on the clergy that the issues can no longer be ignored. Speaking out against the culture of secularism must include a condemnation of college for girls, but, doing this is almost impossible in the current environment. Everyone wants their daughter to be "successful" and money is the only measure of that.

Since money does control the behavior of most, and since the allocation of money is political, it is very unlikely the Church can do anything except speak out against the current college scam. Unless more people become Christians, it is not going to change soon and any man who tries to raise a family as sole breadwinner has to climb a very steep hill (and is impossible for most). Going back to single breadwinners would be feasible if it was politically mandated somehow, otherwise the cheap easy loans to go to school for the mythical paycheck will be too strong a lure.

It's a garbage situation but blaming the Church makes little sense, for the people left the Church not the other way around. I do believe that on mothers day, usually you can find many Orthodox priests praising the role of mothers, but few talking about how motherhood is becoming fewer and fewer. So the Church can do more but they are still far improved over 95% of society.

I think some form of higher education for women would still be a good idea. Get rid of all the gen eds and liberal indoctrination classes and you could cut down the curriculum to 2 years easy, in which students can be taught a useful economic skill such as nursing. I don't see us going back to single breadwinners any time soon with this economy, so most women will have to work at least part-time. Or you make major sacrifices like living with one car per family, no vacations, smaller house where children share rooms, etc. I don't think most of us are ready to do that.

In Biblical times, women would devote their extra time after they had taken care of the children and the home to working in the fields, or with livestock, or supporting their husband's shop. And grandparents would be around to help with the kids. Today you really only see this in small towns or rural areas. What we really lack in America is well paying part-time work, though this is more common in Switzerland and other countries. So perhaps a husband could work 40 hours a week and the wife works 20 from home or near home to make ends meet, which still leaves her enough time for her other duties. Anyways the average 8-hour office job can be done in 4 to 6 hours max, companies are just greedy forcing so many people in the office all day for peanuts.

Overall the Church is doing a pretty good job, but like you, I do wish they would address the feminism situation more because it affects everything so much. And traditionally priests gave penances for things like adultery, which are much rarer now. Parishioners would be excluded from communion for a period, but now it seems everyone takes communion all the time. And I dare say some of those people are not doing themselves a favor with that. I get that second marriages are allowed as a matter of economia, but there must be true repentance first.

 

[Hermetic Seal]

Or you make major sacrifices like living with one car per family, no vacations, smaller house where children share rooms, etc. I don't think most of us are ready to do that.

Those sound like pretty easy sacrifices to me. We have one car (though my in laws live with us so there’s usually another car available if necessary), it’s completely normal for kids to share rooms, and I’ve always found the whole culture of frequent vacations in the US to be pretty ridiculous, especially for a family like mine where we have a baby and toddler and the kids aren’t going to get much out of it anyway.

When I was a kid, we never took a family vacation father than a day trip to the beach until the youngest of myself and two brothers was halfway through elementary school and I was in middle school. Never went to distant theme parks or anything like that. And me and my brothers did not care at all, not once did any of us ask to go on vacation or complain that we never went on long trips. Maybe my family was just weird. My parents took a couple of trips to go skiing and a few other things just by themselves while us kids stayed with my grandmother. None of us minded. I’m glad my parents got a break.

Increasingly I feel the whole vacation culture thing is really much more about the parents than the kids, especially weird Millennial parents obsessed with Disney and that sort of thing. Personally I care little for long trips with tiny kids, it’s stressful and chaotic, and at least where I live there’s no shortage of things to do within close driving distance of less than an hour.

That’s all a bit off topic since I generally agree with your point about the value of part time work for wives and all that.

 

[analyst_green]

Those sound like pretty easy sacrifices to me. We have one car (though my in laws live with us so there’s usually another car available if necessary), it’s completely normal for kids to share rooms, and I’ve always found the whole culture of frequent vacations in the US to be pretty ridiculous, especially for a family like mine where we have a baby and toddler and the kids aren’t going to get much out of it anyway.

When I was a kid, we never took a family vacation father than a day trip to the beach until the youngest of myself and two brothers was halfway through elementary school and I was in middle school. Never went to distant theme parks or anything like that. And me and my brothers did not care at all, not once did any of us ask to go on vacation or complain that we never went on long trips. Maybe my family was just weird. My parents took a couple of trips to go skiing and a few other things just by themselves while us kids stayed with my grandmother. None of us minded. I’m glad my parents got a break.

Increasingly I feel the whole vacation culture thing is really much more about the parents than the kids, especially weird Millennial parents obsessed with Disney and that sort of thing. Personally I care little for long trips with tiny kids, it’s stressful and chaotic, and at least where I live there’s no shortage of things to do within close driving distance of less than an hour.

That’s all a bit off topic since I generally agree with your point about the value of part time work for wives and all that.

Personally I always really enjoyed my trips with my parents when I was old enough to remember. We wouldn't go to theme parks, but places of natural or cultural significance like the Black Hills in South Dakota or the Great Lakes. The drive was very long sometimes but it was worth it and some of my most memorable times from childhood were traveling across the country. Definitely it's different with very young kids though.

Now that I'm working in a demanding corporate job, I really feel like I need vacations to de-stress.

 

[Lawrence87]

I think the most important thing in this battle, my brothers, is to not stop loving Christ. He will not stop loving you. The shame we feel when we wallow in despondency after a fall is ultimately pride. Keep your eyes on Christ and vow to serve Him no matter what happens. We fall and get back up. Those who endure to the end will be saved. There's a crown waiting for us kings.

 

[Blade Runner]

I came across some information that was indirectly given to me after I inquired about the state of men in America (I live in the US), and what the priests, elders or hierarchs think about it. Let me say first that in general one of the people I heard about indirectly, I don't for a second think that they don't consider the culture and its effect on women, but what I perceive from person X in a church service hearing a homily or being addressed by the priest, is that they only hear about men trying to figure things out and thus, as simple minded, they think it's a men's issue or problem. I was made aware that the idea is around, generally speaking, that with more and more men coming into the church (something I've talked about) that the women will then follow. While this fits a certain social paradigm, I still think that kind of change will not help men/people in about a 15-20 year sweet spot (not so sweet spot in fact), and I also think it is possible that it is old world or wishful thinking in part.

The other thing that is going on that I think is something I've neglected to think about, is how the Orthodox Church in America (not the OCA per se, but whichever jurisdictions are flourishing) is changing from the old immigrant model and being taken away by God to be given to people who aren't cultural, or careless, or materialist, but rather to converts and real believers. These are also those who will have more children and families. Now, this isn't about me, but as for what I wrote in paragraph 1, forgive me, that doesn't help me or my similar cohort either sadly. It does sound like a plan God can have for the west, though, or at least certain areas of it.

 

[Samseau]

I came across some information that was indirectly given to me after I inquired about the state of men in America (I live in the US), and what the priests, elders or hierarchs think about it. Let me say first that in general one of the people I heard about indirectly, I don't for a second think that they don't consider the culture and its effect on women, but what I perceive from person X in a church service hearing a homily or being addressed by the priest, is that they only hear about men trying to figure things out and thus, as simple minded, they think it's a men's issue or problem. I was made aware that the idea is around, generally speaking, that with more and more men coming into the church (something I've talked about) that the women will then follow. While this fits a certain social paradigm, I still think that kind of change will not help men/people in about a 15-20 year sweet spot (not so sweet spot in fact), and I also think it is possible that it is old world or wishful thinking in part.

The other thing that is going on that I think is something I've neglected to think about, is how the Orthodox Church in America (not the OCA per se, but whichever jurisdictions are flourishing) is changing from the old immigrant model and being taken away by God to be given to people who aren't cultural, or careless, or materialist, but rather to converts and real believers. These are also those who will have more children and families. Now, this isn't about me, but as for what I wrote in paragraph 1, forgive me, that doesn't help me or my similar cohort either sadly. It does sound like a plan God can have for the west, though, or at least certain areas of it.

One of those converts may be your wife someday. Pray, ask the Lord for a wife, and if He feels it is best for you then He will give you one. That's all I've ever done, and combined with some basic game knowledge, I have gotten way more women than I've ever deserved.

Indeed, if you are single now, did you not enjoy your youth? Did not the Lord provide women for you? That the culture is broken is not God's fault. God, as far as I'm concerned, has filled his end of the bargin. He provided us with lots of women - it's tragic if none of it worked out, and we must pray to God that things will change for the next generation.

But it's not like God did not give us women and the carnal love they provide. God was generous to us, even as we sinned outside of marriage. Such is God's eternal mercy. So I think you are despondent for no reason - God is still here, He has provided, and it is us who are lacking.

 

[Samseau]

I think some form of higher education for women would still be a good idea. Get rid of all the gen eds and liberal indoctrination classes and you could cut down the curriculum to 2 years easy, in which students can be taught a useful economic skill such as nursing. I don't see us going back to single breadwinners any time soon with this economy, so most women will have to work at least part-time. Or you make major sacrifices like living with one car per family, no vacations, smaller house where children share rooms, etc. I don't think most of us are ready to do that.

What I think is the best solution is to gently edge society back into a traditional model. We can't just undo the damage overnight.

For example, I would encourage women to have a career AFTER they start a family. To that end, I would advocate for the state to provide generous scholarships to married women with children. For example, any married woman of 3 or more gets a free ride to any college of her choice. For mothers with 2 children, they get 66% discount, 1 child at 33% discount, etc.

I believe a strong financial incentive like that would drastically increase marriage rates, because women would say, "Well if I get married when young I'll make way more $$$ later!!" This would also encourage younger women to look for older more established men who could get started on a family sooner.

There are lots of ideas like this, and I hope the Church will be able to promote them someday.

 

[Blade Runner]

So I think you are despondent for no reason - God is still here, He has provided, and it is us who are lacking.

First off, I'm not despondent. I have my plan and am sticking to it regardless of something happening with a family, or not. It's funny because there are a lot of people on the forum that tell me disparate or contradictory things, curiously:

1) Give up, you're too old
2) Don't be despondent, but it's your fault that you didn't do something with what God provided

I'm just trying to move on with a plan, and that's optimism, not despair. At all.

The forum sends messages frequently (perhaps just by a handful of posters, but they do pop up often, or sentiment like those posters does) that are schizophrenic, like the society, and I'm just pointing them out.

 

[Samseau]

First off, I'm not despondent. I have my plan and am sticking to it regardless of something happening with a family, or not. It's funny because there are a lot of people on the forum that tell me disparate or contradictory things, curiously:

1) Give up, you're too old
2) Don't be despondent, but it's your fault that you didn't do something with what God provided

I'm just trying to move on with a plan, and that's optimism, not despair. At all.

The forum sends messages frequently (perhaps just by a handful of posters, but they do pop up often, or sentiment like those posters does) that are schizophrenic, like the society, and I'm just pointing them out.

But hold on now - I'm not blaming you, I said us. Society is very much the problem here, so we are in agreement. My point to you was simply to be hopeful, as it felt like you believed the Church was not doing enough to help men in your situation.

I'm saying, while yes that is partially true, it is also true that God gave us literally everything we needed to succeed and we blew it. So I'm not really sure why it's entirely up to the Church to fix something that we, as a people, had every reason to succeed with.

The Church should be of course aware of the problem, and preach against the evil - and they do. That is why there is a "Celebration of women in the Church" month, because it's a direct response to feminism. Instead of celebrating female careers, the Church celebrates motherhood, wives, and widows. It's a direct pushback against the heresies of our age.

But ultimately us men have a large role to play. We must have no fear, ask out women younger than us, and lead by example no matter what the negative voices may say. That falls on us, and the Church cannot carry the water entirely for us. The Church is there to marry us, and the Church will not judge age differences, but the Church cannot convince people to marry off their daughters to older men. That falls down to older men to step up their game, so to speak. All the Church can do is encourage women to marry instead of pursue careers, and I agree with you that they should do more in this regard.

Is it fair? Nope, and we are paying for the sins of our ancestors. But it is reality.

 

[WoodArch4033]

I know despondency and it's a horrible sin. It's effects are worse than lust, in my opinion. I'm at the point where I can despair simply after waking up, not because of any particular sin of mine that I feel is "too great" for God to forgive, but because of fears of many kinds that are very oppressive. And I know it's a sin (though my willpower is low, and I have low awareness and low care for myself), and whenever I'm idle, it's because of that... I don't commit idleness just because I want to do nothing. It causes sickness, exhaustion, burning in my head, as if I'm already in hell, though I want to trust in God.
So I know what it's like. Since you're Orthodox, I know you view sin as a sickness and you're looking out for your brothers, but if he actually was despondent, I'm not sure how what you have said will help. He simply doesn't want to cling onto the feeling of "If you just keep on praying, God will give you a wife... and then with the stipulation that if God wants to give him a wife." Within even my circumstances as a young man, that would only lead to confusion for me, holding onto something that may not happen, when I should really accept as reality what is now and work with what I have. It's likely that God's path for us isn't one singular road, and that God truly desires good things that would help his children in any way, including a wife... however many in the world resist him with pride. I do want to see us Orthodox do more evangelism outside of simply with our family and coworkers, but that doesn't automatically mean we can hope that one of the ladies that converts will be right for us. God decides that, and He's gracious and wants good spiritual things for us, perhaps it is better to not think about it, and be thankful that we are not in relationships which are not good for us, rather than God forcing women who aren't fit for marriage to marry all of us... to simply stick with our plans.

I am sure you are writing with care for our souls, but I can see recently how it can be tiring for others that you are asserting your opinions on members and not giving room for them to have their own thoughts @Samseau If someone has a plan and works with it every day and they don't feel that they're suffering from despondency, it's very likely that they're not suffering from despondency.

 

[Samseau]

Please forgive me if I make it sound like I'm calling you all faithless weaklings. Despondency is something I have struggled with for a huge portion of my life. It's also something I am not seeking to blame others for, or to call them out. Indeed, as someone who had to overcome it, I share my thoughts in an effort to help those who may or may not be struggling along with their faith as well.

And if I am mistaken about someone's despair, then also I beg your forgiveness - I am but a mediocrity who can only attempt to help with the limited knowledge I have.

 

[WoodArch4033]

Please forgive me if I make it sound like I'm calling you all faithless weaklings. Despondency is something I have struggled with for a huge portion of my life. It's also something I am not seeking to blame others for, or to call them out. Indeed, as someone who had to overcome it, I share my thoughts in an effort to help those who may or may not be struggling along with their faith as well.

And if I am mistaken about someone's despair, then also I beg your forgiveness - I am but a mediocrity who can only attempt to help with the limited knowledge I have.

Easily forgiven, I didn't really feel like you were sinning per se

 

[Unending Powerhouse Match]

Please forgive me if I make it sound like I'm calling you all faithless weaklings. Despondency is something I have struggled with for a huge portion of my life. It's also something I am not seeking to blame others for, or to call them out. Indeed, as someone who had to overcome it, I share my thoughts in an effort to help those who may or may not be struggling along with their faith as well.

And if I am mistaken about someone's despair, then also I beg your forgiveness - I am but a mediocrity who can only attempt to help with the limited knowledge I have.

How did you overcome it?

 

[Samseau]

How did you overcome it?

I went back to Church! And starting following the ways of the Lord. Within a few years all depression evaporated, and I haven't had depression in over 10 years now!

 

[analyst_green]

I found this to be pretty relevant.

 

[Lawrence87]

I think a big issue for me in this struggle is that for my entire life I have been spiked with black pills. I say spiked because usually the pill analogy is one of willing acceptance, we swallow the pill in accordance with our acceptance. But in this instance, just a general atmosphere of negativity and doom, an over abundance of bad news that leads to a general state of dejection wherein my faith becomes overshadowed with despondency. And in such a state of weakness falling becomes a big temptation.

I believe it would be good in this thread to gather together prayers that remind us of the Almighty strength that we have on our side, who will unite us against our enemies. One such prayer is the Breastplate of St Patrick:

I arise today

Through a mighty strength, the invocation of the Trinity,

Through a belief in the Threeness,

Through confession of the Oneness

Of the Creator of creation.


I arise today

Through the strength of Christ’s birth and His baptism,

Through the strength of His crucifixion and His burial,

Through the strength of His resurrection and His ascension,

Through the strength of His descent for the judgment of doom.


I arise today

Through the strength of the love of cherubim,

In obedience of angels,

In service of archangels,

In the hope of resurrection to meet with reward,

In the prayers of patriarchs,

In preachings of the apostles,

In faiths of confessors,

In innocence of virgins,

In deeds of righteous men.


I arise today

Through the strength of heaven;

Light of the sun,

Splendor of fire,

Speed of lightning,

Swiftness of the wind,

Depth of the sea,

Stability of the earth,

Firmness of the rock.


I arise today

Through God’s strength to pilot me;

God’s might to uphold me,

God’s wisdom to guide me,

God’s eye to look before me,

God’s ear to hear me,

God’s word to speak for me,

God’s hand to guard me,

God’s way to lie before me,

God’s shield to protect me,

God’s hosts to save me

From snares of the devil,

From temptations of vices,

From every one who desires me ill,

Afar and anear,

Alone or in a mulitude.


I summon today all these powers between me and evil,

Against every cruel merciless power that opposes my body and soul,

Against incantations of false prophets,

Against black laws of pagandom,

Against false laws of heretics,

Against craft of idolatry,

Against spells of women and smiths and wizards,

Against every knowledge that corrupts man’s body and soul.

Christ shield me today

Against poison, against burning,

Against drowning, against wounding,

So that reward may come to me in abundance.


Christ with me, Christ before me, Christ behind me,

Christ in me, Christ beneath me, Christ above me,

Christ on my right, Christ on my left,

Christ when I lie down, Christ when I sit down,

Christ in the heart of every man who thinks of me,

Christ in the mouth of every man who speaks of me,

Christ in the eye that sees me,

Christ in the ear that hears me.


I arise today

Through a mighty strength, the invocation of the Trinity,

Through a belief in the Threeness,

Through a confession of the Oneness

Of the Creator of creation


Salvation is of the Lord.


Salvation is of the Lord.


Salvation is of Christ.


May Thy Salvation, O Lord, be ever with us.

These kind of prayers remind us of the strength and power we ally ourselves with as Christians. They rouse us to do battle. They dispell the fog of darkness. They also remind us to fear God because if we embrace the darkness, we set ourselves against Almighty God. Lets rouse ourselves to do battle brothers. In the name of Almighty God.

 

[Blade Runner]

I found this to be pretty relevant.

I'm happy that Fr. is encouraging men, but at some point we do have to level with many of the young men, and with the population at large. We are going through a transitional phase of humanity that isn't going to work out for most. I think people are reluctant to say that, but why shouldn't we? If we say it generically there are two implications: 1) what is going on and is coming will be difficult and 2) we aren't necessarily saying who is going to get through and who isn't. So it's not necessarily black pill, it's honesty, in telling everyone the probabilities are X or Y, but we don't know the particulars.

I told some of you before, I think even in this thread, that some solid priests or bishops/elders are saying that as men come back into the church, women will too. What they leave out is that this is going to take way longer than it might seem when just hearing it, and in a sense I find it to be a distraction or false promise, even if technically correct. It also fits my paradigm that the older generations are rather indifferent to these kind of harsh realities. In their defense, there is nothing they can do anyway, but I don't find it all that helpful to say that "things are changing" when you look into the face of young men 20-40, and in reality you know there ain't a gosh darn thing changing in anytime less than 15 years (for the better) - if that.

I honestly don't even know myself what I would recommend people do. People who know me would be far more blackpill if they realized my life situation, to be honest. I'd laugh if I didn't think I have a particular role in the future that has been revealed to me.

 

[Samseau]

I'm happy that Fr. is encouraging men, but at some point we do have to level with many of the young men, and with the population at large. We are going through a transitional phase of humanity that isn't going to work out for most. I think people are reluctant to say that, but why shouldn't we? If we say it generically there are two implications: 1) what is going on and is coming will be difficult and 2) we aren't necessarily saying who is going to get through and who isn't. So it's not necessarily black pill, it's honesty, in telling everyone the probabilities are X or Y, but we don't know the particulars.

I told some of you before, I think even in this thread, that some solid priests or bishops/elders are saying that as men come back into the church, women will too. What they leave out is that this is going to take way longer than it might seem when just hearing it, and in a sense I find it to be a distraction or false promise, even if technically correct. It also fits my paradigm that the older generations are rather indifferent to these kind of harsh realities. In their defense, there is nothing they can do anyway, but I don't find it all that helpful to say that "things are changing" when you look into the face of young men 20-40, and in reality you know there ain't a gosh darn thing changing in anytime less than 15 years (for the better) - if that.

I honestly don't even know myself what I would recommend people do. People who know me would be far more blackpill if they realized my life situation, to be honest. I'd laugh if I didn't think I have a particular role in the future that has been revealed to me.

Well, keep in mind that many men are not like us - they will be happy to enter into a relationship with a woman in her 30's or 40's, and get married, even if there is no chance for kids. For many men, not having children is fine, as long as they can get some kind of intimacy.

So ultimately, we needn't worry too much about the other men. Take care of ourselves and then work on other men, one at a time, and meet their needs as they have them.

I hate to sound mean or judgmental - but God made betas for a reason. Indeed the betas may even have higher status in the Kingdom of Heaven for being able to deny themselves more than guys like us who want the young fertile beauties and lots of children.

Without a doubt though, there will be a major population decline. Best case scenario is lots of childless marriages that occur later in life instead of singletons grinding out an empty life. As long as the next generation sees lots of people getting married, then hopefully they will marry earlier and have more children, and reverse the decline.

Trust God, He will take care of this in due time.