Donald Trump: Criticism & Debate Thread

Iacobus said:
Fellas, the reality is IIMT gets a dopamine kick out of being responded to and getting people to run in conversational circles going nowhere. You're not going to get through to him because he's never wrong, you see. You're purple pilled and he's redpilled and the goalposts shall never be placed in one spot but forever shifted about.



This is indeed the core issue. The man posts things that demand to be addressed and then when engaged, tirelessly sinks the discourse into a quagmire of negativity and refuses to admit responsibility despite at least half a dozen well-respected posters trying to get him to self-reflect on many different occasions. It's a no-win scenario. So the only solutions would be for everyone to ignore list him, or the mods can enact certain measures that would have the same outcome.

Personally I would have a lot more patience if he didn't scorn the Church and God implicitly and explicitly and espouse soy anti-natalist takes. These things have no place in a Christ-centered community IMO. Probably would be better for his own mental health to get off of here but I'd wager he likes the attention too much.
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I just list the facts. The demographic time bomb is already here. And unless you believe you can magically increase IQ by 20 to 30 points, which is proven impossible, then it will go off.

I don't care to argue, but if people want to a new way of thinking that is not Wall Street approved "conservatism" then I am happy to provide it.

What is it that I say that you believe is not Christian?
 
IIMT has earned a 1-month ban. Refusing to engage in serious dicussion, with actionable advice, has earned him this ban. Being unable, or unwilling, to admit he could be wrong, and engage in nonstop avoidance of responsibility (no kids, no reaching out online, no church, etc) is unacceptable.

This is a forum for Christian men, and Christian men take life seriously. IIMT, if and when you return, you need to have a radically different approach to life. Something that contributes positively to the future, and not merely bitching and moaning here on the forum.

We are looking for real solutions:
- Finding a wife, starting a family
- Joining a good Church, becoming a pillar of the community
- Political activism, online or offline, to convert others to the cause of God and Truth

SOMETHING along these lines. Otherwise you will get an even longer ban, the next stage is a year long ban after the month ban. The idea is to encourage you to improve.

"As iron sharpens iron, so must one man sharpen another."

You are doing the opposite - dulling everyone - instead of talking about real solutions. No one is interested in hearing your lame excuses for inaction while moaning about how things aren't good enough for you. Shape up, or ship out.
 
Samseau said:
IIMT has earned a 1-month ban. Refusing to engage in serious dicussion, with actionable advice, has earned him this ban. Being unable, or unwilling, to admit he could be wrong, and engage in nonstop avoidance of responsibility (no kids, no reaching out online, no church, etc) is unacceptable.

This is a forum for Christian men, and Christian men take life seriously. IIMT, if and when you return, you need to have a radically different approach to life. Something that contributes positively to the future, and not merely bitching and moaning here on the forum.

We are looking for real solutions:
- Finding a wife, starting a family
- Joining a good Church, becoming a pillar of the community
- Political activism, online or offline, to convert others to the cause of God and Truth

SOMETHING along these lines. Otherwise you will get an even longer ban, the next stage is a year long ban after the month ban. The idea is to encourage you to improve.

"As iron sharpens iron, so must one man sharpen another."

You are doing the opposite - dulling everyone - instead of talking about real solutions. No one is interested in hearing your lame excuses for inaction while moaning about how things aren't good enough for you. Shape up, or ship out.
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I'm not sure if I like this but I certainly understand it, at the absolute least nobody can see you weren't patient with him. I would have much preferred for him to find peace and new joy in life perhaps through reflection but that didn't seem like it was going to happen and I have become extremely frustrated with him more than once. I do agree he doesn't belong on this forum, yes we all wish the world was a better place and there are many things very wrong with it but life walking with Christ is a beautiful thing and makes our lives better which we should celebrate....to me that should always be the basis of this forum. Not what he brought to it and why he was here...
 
If all of yall think he is so wrong why engage? Everyone here is acting like lobsters in a bucket and letting IIMT pull yall back in every single time.

Everyone of yall have good points but the whole ideal is not solid. Yes, IIMT says alot of double speak, but none of yall are helping the situation by using insults or flaming the fire that he starts.

It all really just comes off as a group of people who keep someone around in their group just to have someone to pick on.
 
Gazeebo said:
If all of yall think he is so wrong why engage? Everyone here is acting like lobsters in a bucket and letting IIMT pull yall back in every single time.

Everyone of yall have good points but the whole ideal is not solid. Yes, IIMT says alot of double speak, but none of yall are helping the situation by using insults or flaming the fire that he starts.

It all really just comes off as a group of people who keep someone around in their group just to have someone to pick on.
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Because he actively looks to poison the forum and other men here, that should not be allowed to run rampant without check. Lots of young guys here looking for advice and direction, hell not even young guys just men in general....

If that were the case he wouldn't have just been banned. The insults come from frustration, very valid frustrations if you ask me.
 
Get2choppaaa said:
Again, as far as Iran is concerned... Why do people like Patrick Bet David, who grew up there and left, decry how screwed up and terrible that country is if they "had their own people" and were some monolithic block.
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Iran has a lot of problems, the same way Cuba and North Korea have problems. They are economically blockaded by the most powerful nation on the earth. Cuba, for example, has one of the best health care systems in the world and a higher literacy rate than the US. But they also suffer from other problems since they are an island that the US prevents many goods and resources from reaching because they have a grudge against them. Likewise North Korea, which was always the more powerful and wealthy of the two Koreas, even for decades after the war into the 1980s. It is a very socially cohesive nation with basically zero degeneracy and lots of good pro-family policies. But it's under constant fear of attack by Great Satan, wastes a lot of resources on military spending, and also suffers from an economic embargo because America has a grudge against it.

Countries under attack from Zog are going to have a lot of problems, and some will flee those problems.

But beyond that, I don't take what dissidents who left a place very seriously, anyway.

My Russian friend is very embarrassed and ashamed of what Putin is doing.
I mean... the guy left Russia, what can you say? It's not surprising.
American ex-pats don't have anything nice to say about America either. I would probably agree with them on most points, but still...

As for Iran, I've met some incredibly bright and kind Persians, including doctors and engineers. It's a very rich culture and would be the natural hegemon in the region if it wasn't for American intervention (the same can be said of Japan in Asia so American leaders can STFU about ChynaChynaChyna). Iran is a small country, that punches far above its weight in many ways. It's also the best hope for a future middle eastern hegemon. But that's pretty far off in the distance, and one of my biggest fears is a Zionist Neocon push for war on Iran. Dying empires in their death throws are universally irrationally violent, and Iran has been in the crosshairs since well before John McCain.

It's looking more and more like a Trump presidency (or at least not Biden) and Trump is maybe the only guy I can think of who could convince heritage Americans to fight a foreign war (and he has shown hostility towards Iran).
 
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Rax Moscow said:
Iran has a lot of problems, the same way Cuba and North Korea have problems. They are economically blockaded by the most powerful nation on the earth. Cuba, for example, has one of the best health care systems in the world and a higher literacy rate than the US. But they also suffer from other problems since they are an island that the US prevents many goods and resources from reaching because they have a grudge against them. Likewise North Korea, which was always the more powerful and wealthy of the two Koreas, even for decades after the war into the 1980s. It is a very socially cohesive nation with basically zero degeneracy and lots of good pro-family policies. But it's under constant fear of attack by Great Satan, wastes a lot of resources on military spending, and also suffers from an economic embargo because America has a grudge against it.

Countries under attack from Zog are going to have a lot of problems, and some will flee those problems.

But beyond that, I don't take what dissidents who left a place very seriously, anyway.

My Russian friend is very embarrassed and ashamed of what Putin is doing.
I mean... the guy left Russia, what can you say? It's not surprising.
American ex-pats don't have anything nice to say about America either. I would probably agree with them on most points, but still...

As for Iran, I've met some incredibly bright and kind Persians, including doctors and engineers. It's a very rich culture and would be the natural hegemon in the region if it wasn't for American intervention (the same can be said of Japan in Asia so American leaders can STFU about ChynaChynaChyna). Iran is a small country, that punches far above its weight in many ways. It's also the best hope for a future middle eastern hegemon. But that's pretty far off in the distance, and one of my biggest fears is a Zionist Neocon push for war on Iran. Dying empires in their death throws are universally irrationally violent, and Iran has been in the crosshairs since well before John McCain.

It's looking more and more like a Trump presidency (or at least not Biden) and Trump is maybe the only guy I can think of who could convince heritage Americans to fight a foreign war (and he has shown hostility towards Iran).
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Trump's been anti war since day 1.
 
Trump came very close to war with Iran in his first term.
There was a LOT of vitriol and really dangerous language that even I had forgotten, until I saw it in a recent Frontline doc.
It was bad. Unhinged even.

Too hard to search for a lot online, but there was this:

“To Iranian President Rouhani: NEVER, EVER THREATEN THE UNITED STATES AGAIN OR YOU WILL SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES THE LIKES OF WHICH FEW THROUGHOUT HISTORY HAVE EVER SUFFERED BEFORE. WE ARE NO LONGER A COUNTRY THAT WILL STAND FOR YOUR DEMENTED WORDS OF VIOLENCE & DEATH. BE CAUTIOUS!” read the 2018 tweet.


We can hope it was just hyperbole, and Trump being Trump.
But we don't really know.
If he had pulled us out of Afghanistan like he promised, I would feel much more confident.
Fingers crossed.
 
Blade Runner said:
You're not dumb, you just keep focusing on the negative, which gets tiring and is useless. As I said, change your perspective.
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This is interesting. IIMT keeps claiming he's upbeat about life and not gloomy. The only way to know if this is true would be to spend a couple of days alone with him in the woods. After such a time, I believe it is quite possible that IIMT could be vindicated. What if his written musings are fairly spot on (yet gloomy and "negative"), but in person he is a real upbeat, positive, life of the party type of guy?
 
PurpleUrkel said:
What if his written musings are fairly spot on (yet gloomy and "negative"), but in person he is a real upbeat, positive, life of the party type of guy?
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It doesn't really matter what he's like in real life, because none of us are interacting with him there. All we see is his forum persona, which is 100% blackpilled to the extent that he ends up derailing every thread he's involved in because other members get so fed up with reading it and call him out.

I value IIMT's contributions to the forum and sincerely hope he will return with a commitment to limit his doomposting, if only out of respect for his fellow forum members, who have been beyond patient in putting up with his relentless blackpilling.
 
scorpion said:
It doesn't really matter what he's like in real life
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I agree with the main body of your post, but personally, I'm more interested in how someone behaves in the real world trenches of conflict or disagreement over how they "communicate" on the internet. One can always hit the ignore button and/or refuse to engage (the latter being the better option).
 
One of the things that I found encouraging about President Trump was his promise to do away with the so-called Johnson Amendment. The now-defunct pro-Trump website (promiseskept.com) claimed that President Trump did scrap the Johnson Amendment. Sadly, that wasn't true.

What is the Johnson Amendment? A provision of the U.S. tax code created by the LBJ administration which prohibits religious organizations and many nonprofits from endorsing or opposing political candidates. Trump claimed that he scrapped this amendment, allowing religious organizations to espouse political views in the public forum. Technically, he didn't. Trump instead signed an executive order in May 2017 with the stated purpose of giving more freedom to religious groups in the realm of political speech.

Basically, the executive order says the Treasury Department should not treat speech “about moral or political issues from a religious perspective” as a sign of support for or opposition to a candidate if similar language, in the past, has not ordinarily been treated that way. This certainly does not remove section 501(c)3 of the U.S. tax code.

Is there any possibility of religious organizations holding Trump's feet to the fire on this? I would really like to see him strike down the Johnson Amendment during his next term, assuming he is re-elected.

EDIT: Eliminating this amendment would do wonders in terms of untying the hands of American churches by allowing them to organize against many of the evils plaguing the land. As it stands, the churches have to constantly beware of their enemies using the tax code as a hammer against them should they step out of line.
 
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WASHINGTON (AP) — Former President Donald Trump again urged people to be vaccinated against the novel coronavirus, saying he would recommend vaccination to “a lot of people that don’t want to get it, and a lot of those people voted for me.”



Do Covid-19 vaccines cause myocarditis and pericarditis?​

There is a link between mRNA Covid-19 vaccines and an increased risk of myocarditis and pericarditis.
 
magoo said:

WASHINGTON (AP) — Former President Donald Trump again urged people to be vaccinated against the novel coronavirus, saying he would recommend vaccination to “a lot of people that don’t want to get it, and a lot of those people voted for me.”



Do Covid-19 vaccines cause myocarditis and pericarditis?​

There is a link between mRNA Covid-19 vaccines and an increased risk of myocarditis and pericarditis.
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First article 2021

Second article 2024

I am not a fan of the clot shot. But let's be honest about the timing if you're trying to make apples to apples comparison.
 
Get2choppaaa said:
First article 2021

Second article 2024

I am not a fan of the clot shot. But let's be honest about the timing if you're trying to make apples to apples comparison.
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What your saying is nonsense. And you better know it. A fortiori your clearing also the CEOs of the vaccine company. Your setting a warranty exemption. There´s no statue of limitation for this orange liar.

But thats also not the case. If you google. You will find plenty of credible studies. Before he stopped praising himself for creating a bio weapon.

No insults however. We are making progress. Ha!

Hes not speaking about the vaccines. Because it takes away votes. But his stupid enough to still believe they were a good thing.

Either he knew the vaccines were unsafe and sold them anyway. Or he didn´t knew the vaccines were unsafe. Even though it was his job to know.

In first case you have intention. Second case negligence. Negligence is when you should have more care than you did.
Both accounts he is responsible.

My guess is he took the first thing which was presented to him which could end the pandemic. Without weighing in or making any assessment of the risk. Maybe he was duped. Don´t think that´s the case. But if he was in fact duped. It simply means he is not smart enough to be president. He doesn´t have what it takes. If he was duped with the vaxx. He can be duped with anything else. You know like a f war in Iran. He didn´t knew Houthis were planning a terrorist attack. But now he must respond...

I think he knew. Don´t have any way to prove it. But he knew the vaccines were risky. And he received kickbacks for it. Kickbacks that he cannot touch. Maybe his children or grandchildren will enjoy them.

Trump is a commercial. He is not a developer. He is a seller. Commercial people don´t care about details. They´re goal is to sell. I´ve dealt as a lawyer with real estate agents. And they would lie lie lie. They will sell you a dumpster and say it´s paradise. But he is not an agent. He is the one responsible.

For Trump it was just another sell. The problem is the buck in this case stops with Trump.

To understand Trump you need to understand real estate. He sold the vaccines. Like he sells a default building. I said before. Guys like Trump already saw too many things. He is tainted.

Chinese also make buildings in 15 days. See how they look after 1 year

Either by intention or negligence he is the number 1 responsible for the vaxx. And if vaxes didnt exist there werent mandates.
 
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magoo said:
What your saying is nonsense. And you better know it. A fortiori your clearing also the CEOs of the vaccine company. Your setting a warranty exemption. There´s no statue of limitation for this orange liar.

But thats also not the case. If you google. You will find plenty of credible studies. Before he stopped praising himself for creating a bio weapon.

No insults however. We are making progress. Ha!

Hes not speaking about the vaccines. Because it takes away votes. But his stupid enough to still believe they were a good thing.

Either he knew the vaccines were unsafe and sold them anyway. Or he didn´t knew the vaccines were unsafe. Even though it was his job to know.

In first case you have intention. Second case negligence. Negligence is when you should have more care than you did.
Both accounts he is responsible.

My guess is he took the first thing which was presented to him which could end the pandemic. Without weighing in or making any assessment of the risk. Maybe he was duped. Don´t think that´s the case. But if he was in fact duped. It simply means he is not smart enough to be president. He doesn´t have what it takes. If he was duped with the vaxx. He can be duped with anything else. You know like a f war in Iran. He didn´t knew Houthis were planning a terrorist attack. But now he must respond...

I think he knew. Don´t have any way to prove it. But he knew the vaccines were risky. And he received kickbacks for it. Kickbacks that he cannot touch. Maybe his children or grandchildren will enjoy them.

Trump is a commercial. He is not a developer. He is a seller. Commercial people don´t care about details. They´re goal is to sell. I´ve dealt as a lawyer with real estate agents. And they would lie lie lie. They will sell you a dumpster and say it´s paradise. But he is not an agent. He is the one responsible.

For Trump it was just another sell. The problem is the buck in this case stops with Trump.

To understand Trump you need to understand real estate. He sold the vaccines. Like he sells a default building. I said before. Guys like Trump already saw too many things. He is tainted.

Chinese also make buildings in 15 days. See how they look after 1 year.

Can´t elaborate more. Going karts with kids. But will if I have time tonight.

Either by intention or negligence he is the number 1 responsible for the vaxx. And if vaxes didnt exist there werent mandates.
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What kickbacks?

Again my point is your posting 2 different timelines and trying to assume the information that was known and accepted in 2024 was the same in April of 2021.

It simply was not.

I laid off the insults because you started typing in complete sentences and stopped calling people dumb fucks.... ;)
 
magoo said:
What your saying is nonsense. And you better know it. A fortiori your clearing also the CEOs of the vaccine company. Your setting a warranty exemption. There´s no statue of limitation for this orange liar.

But thats also not the case. If you google. You will find plenty of credible studies. Before he stopped praising himself for creating a bio weapon.

No insults however. We are making progress. Ha!

Hes not speaking about the vaccines. Because it takes away votes. But his stupid enough to still believe they were a good thing.

Either he knew the vaccines were unsafe and sold them anyway. Or he didn´t knew the vaccines were unsafe. Even though it was his job to know.

In first case you have intention. Second case negligence. Negligence is when you should have more care than you did.
Both accounts he is responsible.

My guess is he took the first thing which was presented to him which could end the pandemic. Without weighing in or making any assessment of the risk. Maybe he was duped. Don´t think that´s the case. But if he was in fact duped. It simply means he is not smart enough to be president. He doesn´t have what it takes. If he was duped with the vaxx. He can be duped with anything else. You know like a f war in Iran. He didn´t knew Houthis were planning a terrorist attack. But now he must respond...

I think he knew. Don´t have any way to prove it. But he knew the vaccines were risky. And he received kickbacks for it. Kickbacks that he cannot touch. Maybe his children or grandchildren will enjoy them.

Trump is a commercial. He is not a developer. He is a seller. Commercial people don´t care about details. They´re goal is to sell. I´ve dealt as a lawyer with real estate agents. And they would lie lie lie. They will sell you a dumpster and say it´s paradise. But he is not an agent. He is the one responsible.

For Trump it was just another sell. The problem is the buck in this case stops with Trump.

To understand Trump you need to understand real estate. He sold the vaccines. Like he sells a default building. I said before. Guys like Trump already saw too many things. He is tainted.

Chinese also make buildings in 15 days. See how they look after 1 year

Either by intention or negligence he is the number 1 responsible for the vaxx. And if vaxes didnt exist there werent mandates.
Click to expand...
User name checks out
 
magoo said:
Either he knew the vaccines were unsafe and sold them anyway. Or he didn´t knew the vaccines were unsafe. Even though it was his job to know.
Click to expand...
This goes into the same category as not firing Fauci or getting rid of Atlas. Big mistakes, maybe the biggest disappointment I had. He is a man who, at his age, can just discern things indirectly - and typically he is good at that. Of course, he's not perfect, like all of us - he also doesn't know medicine and apparently he took the injection. So that's that.

No serious person that supports him has ever said he's not flawed.
 
JoeChill said:
One of the things that I found encouraging about President Trump was his promise to do away with the so-called Johnson Amendment. The now-defunct pro-Trump website (promiseskept.com) claimed that President Trump did scrap the Johnson Amendment. Sadly, that wasn't true.

What is the Johnson Amendment? A provision of the U.S. tax code created by the LBJ administration which prohibits religious organizations and many nonprofits from endorsing or opposing political candidates. Trump claimed that he scrapped this amendment, allowing religious organizations to espouse political views in the public forum. Technically, he didn't. Trump instead signed an executive order in May 2017 with the stated purpose of giving more freedom to religious groups in the realm of political speech.

Basically, the executive order says the Treasury Department should not treat speech “about moral or political issues from a religious perspective” as a sign of support for or opposition to a candidate if similar language, in the past, has not ordinarily been treated that way. This certainly does not remove section 501(c)3 of the U.S. tax code.

Is there any possibility of religious organizations holding Trump's feet to the fire on this? I would really like to see him strike down the Johnson Amendment during his next term, assuming he is re-elected.

EDIT: Eliminating this amendment would do wonders in terms of untying the hands of American churches by allowing them to organize against many of the evils plaguing the land. As it stands, the churches have to constantly beware of their enemies using the tax code as a hammer against them should they step out of line.
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The problem with scrapping the Johnson amendment completely is that it will allow for political organizations to pose as religious groups, and then claim tax-exempt status.

How does the state distinguish between political and religious organizations? This is the inherent flaw with "freedom of religion," it doesn't work, never has worked, and never will work.

Either you suppress religions to stop political organizations from scamming the tax code, or you allow political organizations to pose as fake religions.

The reason the amendment wasn't needed in the past was because America was 90% Christian. Once Christianity started to die back in the 50's, because of the inherent failures of Protestantism, people started abusing the religious code to create tax laundering organizations: see Scientology.

This problem will not be fixed without creating a new form of governance, and one that allows Freedom of Christianity, not religion.
 
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