Are dating apps in any way good for Christians?

[Blade Runner]

That's exactly what I'm talking about.

This is what I want:

Yes. It's a cultural problem. Every culture has its problems, but I don't see a culture where women work and then prioritize family or marriage when it is convenient (= when they are low value) as a culture I'd want to be in seeking women. Or where they suggest to you that really all they have to offer is sex, which isn't or will eventually not even be guaranteed, lol

 

[Blade Runner]

I'm sorry but meeting women while drinking alcohol in a bar and using game is not a good method/example and I don't think we should be spreading that type of sentiment on here, regardless of how many people on here met their wives in bars while drinking. I get your point, but it's tainted.

Isn't it that since the culture changed, there really wasn't all that much to do or do about it? I remember just making the best of a bad situation and having fun, as if I was thinking about marriage in my 20s early either, when (also noted by women) the future might be there but it wasn't currently on the table in terms of resources. Looking back the only ones who did have a sense for this were from other countries, and especially if they were non white, or mixes, and you were a european. Very telling. The point is, if women aren't seeking marriage in their (early) 20s, men are just going to respond rationally. Of course, that requires women to not just seek the small number of chads that won't commit and are bad husbands, or bad potential prospects.

 

[God's lonely asperger]

After the wheels fell off my last relationship in 2014, I downloaded a Christian dating app and Tinder.

What I saw on the Christian app was the first sobering indication that it would not be likely that I would find a wife. A significant share of the women were unmarried mothers, divorced mothers and divorced childless women. There were even separated wives (therefore following the modern custom of serial monogamy that implies that relationships and marriages end as soon as the woman checks out and stops sex).

I don't think there is much point in me trying to manage the cost, risk, benefit matrix of the modern marriage when it is not likely to produce children and more likely to give me the responsibility without power over another man's offspring and to assume a position of importance less than the family cat.

This was at a time when I began reading Red Pill books like The Rational Male to try and understand why my imminent fiancée chose her married boss over me when I was sailing with her father (whom I thought was going to be my father-in-law). The Rational Male not only explained what happened but it described the hypergamous strategy which I saw blatantly on display on the Christian dating app: "Ex-party girl and former world traveller now ready to find a traditional Mr Right and Christian gentleman; Kids: 2; Age 35."

I pray every day I don't end up having to chase around unmarried mothers. My uncle does that and it's the topic of conversation in lunch with my family every day. Doesn't help that the specific woman he chose just wants money.

Time to move out buddy, no matter what.

Lol. I'm probably moving out next year due to not liking it here much, and trying out better places at least in my country. I'm still a student, so it's harder to move out and wagecuck to pay (((rent))) and not even own the apartment.

 

[TrainedLogosmotion]

That's exactly what I'm talking about.

Yes. It's a cultural problem. Every culture has its problems, but I don't see a culture where women work and then prioritize family or marriage when it is convenient (= when they are low value) as a culture I'd want to be in seeking women. Or where they suggest to you that really all they have to offer is sex, which isn't or will eventually not even be guaranteed, lol

Case in point: The 'cash me outside' girl mentality and other cringe girls posing as 'ghetto black' is way too high here the states. Clear symptoms of a diseased culture. Barf.

 

[N°6]

Do you share a similar prediction on the existing teens to 20s not changing until large scale cultural change comes, which is usually set off by economic struggles that are new? I've had this theory for a while, but thought a release valve also would be grandparents or parents that still have money that the kids can inherit. If the market has a long period of decline and waves of inflation hit, though, that inheritance prospect can also vanish, which again would do wonders for those who at least desire more sanity coming back into the system (regarding subsidized or spoiled living going away).

I think the economic struggle which devalues young men will continue: Inflation. This will cause a devaluation of currency, university degrees, resumés without ESG points and diversity promotions will lead to higher debt levels. Higher housing costs increase the magnitude of the divorce risk.

This will carry over to the SMP and MMP and lead to harem formation and more nominally straight women going gay for the stay.

 

[Steady Hands]

What do you do for work/education? The section is bold is a big problem. You need to get more experience socializing with both men and women in real life. If you're still in school, I recommend getting involved in as many campus organizations as you can. I understand if you're a guy with the name "God's lonely asperger" this probably comes across as a big ask, but it's extremely important. You need to learn these skills now while you're still young. If you're out of school already, I recommend getting some sort of sales job and watching a lot of sales training videos on YouTube. These will help you learn how to talk to people better and gain confidence.

Don't even bother with dating apps until you have put some work into your social skills.

I suggest to join some mixed group activities / sports and just get comfortable interacting with women as a side effect. do this several times a week.

Strongly agree with these posts

@God's lonely asperger

The above is solid advice. Try these things out and report back on your progress. Try to avoid complaining about women here and focus on taking concrete action and advising us on your progress.

---

The following is adapted from a post of mine in a closed RVF thread.

Navigating Online Dating for Christian Men

How to manage online dating for the conservative Christian man seeking a wife and kids in 2023 and beyond? It's a tough question. And a tough road. But it is possible. Since there are so many women using online dating apps these days, some guys will want to use this opportunity.

Here are 16+ tips that offer a chance of success while minimising suffering along the way. FYI: these tips are based on real life experiences (and eventual marriage), not speculation.

Disclaimer: Online is far from ideal for meeting a conservative wife, is not for everyone, has many downsides, and even when used should not become a clutch driven by sole dependence and avoidance of F2F socialising. Ideally you would be socialising in real life through your church community, sports or hobby clubs, social circle, and incidental cold approaching as part of your regular socialising with random people around you.

Phase 1 - not ready for online

1. If you are a young guy with low confidence and few social skills, stay off the apps for now. It is better to first build up your self confidence and social skills with people and baseline comfort with women through other avenues;

- Focus on building your social skills and confidence, regardless of who is in front of you. Practice small talk with anyone, everyday. Try to make them smile.

Then take active steps to learn how to tell stories, actively listen, speak clearly, etc. This means watching videos online, listening to podcasts, and trying things out. Avoid gettng stuck in learning cognitively and 'paralysis by analysis'. Learning via action is better. Then reflect, learn, and try again.

- To help with this, get help from a personal coach, red pilled male psychologist, church elder (if they have time), a toastmaster group, or otherwise. Don't do it all alone. This is essential.

- Sharing activities like bible study, sports and hobbies is a great way to make friends and get comfortable being around women in a low pressure environment. Get involved in clubs and teams.

- Through the above, develop friendships with other men by taking initiative, sharing activities and offering value.

Consider doing these things first before trying online dating. Going online will likely send you backwards in terms of confidence, emotions, mindset and motivation. Build your ship with strong foundations and a small but trusted crew before you take it in the open seas.

Phase 2 - ready for online

1. Assuming you have some fundamental confidence and social skills as a starting point, put in serious and ongoing effort to maximise your initial attractiveness and ongoing value in the dating/marriage marketplace. This means working on your appearance, health, mindset, career, conversation skills etc on an ongoing basis. Don't be lazy and complain about the lack of wifey options if you're not taking full responsibility to be a man who is emotionally resilient, proactive, and all in all, husband material. And work on getting your best photos!
2. If you're not getting much traction and have some autonomy, change your location to maximise your unique selling points and reduce contact with nagging she-beasts. A change of location could include another country.
3. Screen very hard and be willing to exclude 99% of women online. This means having strong discernment and very clear values and goals.
4. Do your best to have fun and try not to take it too seriously. This is absolutely key because you better...
5. Steel yourself emotionally. Be prepared to feel frustrated, disrespected, ignored, and given enough time, jaded and cynical. These experiences seem to be inevitable. Christian dating apps may be better, but will likely be frustrating in any case. So, it is important to cultivate steady patience.
6. Likewise, try not to expect anything, even after meeting a woman several times, even after she texts you "miss you so much!!" Etc. Nothing is promised online. Ghosting is the norm now.
7. Avoid getting stuck in a loop of compulsive swiping, texting and chatting. Self-enforce breaks, remember these apps are designed to be addictive, and turn off all notifications.
8. Do not rely on the apps for your socialising with women. Concurrently engage in other avenues to meet women incidentally through bible study groups, mixed sports clubs, social circle and if appropriate, cold approaching. The occasional cold approach on a conservative looking woman can also work assuming you have the fundamental emotional regulation and social skills. This would ideally by part of a regular practice of socialising with people wherever you go.
9. Keep up your career, health, church involvement, relationships, hobbies, etc that provide a sustainable scaffolding of your confidence and value that is enduring, and/or unrelated to women.
10. A woman's claim to identify as a "Conservative", "Christian" etc means nothing until you can verify her behaviour in person over multiple time points.
11. Don't be so picky that you're unwilling to even go on a coffee date because she isn't perfect or because you're avoiding the potential for rejection, etc. Remember that trade-offs are 100% unavoidable in relationships and be willing to consider what you can accept as a compromise in some areas. You are not perfect either =)
12. Consider 'the Paradox of Choice' to understand how online dating can lead to a never-ending treadmill of maximising and discontentment.
13. You may be tempted to follow your sexual desires when going on dates. One effective way to stop this happening is refuse to drink or take her home or go to her place. Keep all initial meetings to public spaces and don't drink alcohol. If you lose a woman because you didn't sexually escalate quickly enough, she wasn't a woman of God or wife material anyway.
14. Don't pander, never chase, don't try buying her affection, and always be willing to walk away. Never get into a serious relationship unless the woman respects you which means looking UP to you.
15. If you meet a possible wife candidate and things are going well, take a risk and demonstrate initial commitment by deleting the app to show that you are not interested in continual swiping for a better option.
16. If you don’t feel you are making progress after a few months, take a significant break, consider deleting the app, and spend more time in your church group, sports club, social circles etc.

Phase 3 - beyond online

If you're in a particular location, over a certain age of say 50 or so, have a significant health condition, don't want kids, can't have kids, already had kids etc, then absolutely, "the juice may not be worth the squeeze". Thus, the monk or single life serving God, your family, friends and community may be a more fulfilling and healthy path than any modern forms of dating or relationship. This is a 100% valid choice.

^ I just hope younger guys with legitimate potential don't use wider external events as an excuse to not go after their goals and dreams. After all, fortune favours the bold.

I hope this helps some readers.

 

[Douglas Quaid]

Meet women out in the real world. Places like church, hobbies, coffee shops. And be happy doing them with or without women.

Dating apps are usually a freak show. Bars too.

 

[Douglas Quaid]

Every culture has its problems, but I don't see a culture where women work and then prioritize family or marriage when it is convenient (= when they are low value) as a culture I'd want to be in seeking women.

Yeah women obsessed with their careers are incredibly annoying, even if they have a good personality. It's like they married their job instead of a man, and won't realize until it's too late. And as men, we obviously aren't impressed with women's careers/money. The ones that don't prioritize work are so much nicer.

 

[JCSteel]

Ultimately dating apps are either a temptation you can handle or that you can't. If you can't handle the allurements they provide, don't put yourself in a position where you'll fall, like David did when he caught sight of Bathsheba bathing on the rooftop.

That being said, they are a means to meet people. I met someone who agreed to visit an Orthodox Church with me two months ago. We weren't compatible but going with her provided the catalyst I needed to start going to church regularly. God can use any means to affect his purposes.

 

[cosine]

Hinge actually worked for me! That is how I met my fiance.

For a while I had some shame/embarrassment about meeting someone on an app. But now I am simply so happy that it has worked out that I completely stopped caring. Her family is great, she has great relationships with all of them, and gets along with my family very well.

We aren't as young as I would have liked to be when starting a family. Sometimes these things happen at God's pace.

 

[canuckj]

Hinge actually worked for me! That is how I met my fiance.

For a while I had some shame/embarrassment about meeting someone on an app. But now I am simply so happy that it has worked out that I completely stopped caring. Her family is great, she has great relationships with all of them, and gets along with my family very well.

We aren't as young as I would have liked to be when starting a family. Sometimes these things happen at God's pace.

I have actually seen a few devout seeming women on Hinge and received a message or two. I think you can screen them by putting something like "seeking a sincere Christian (or Catholic or Orthodox) woman who is feminine and wants children". Really the profiles are no indication but a cup of coffee is cheap .

 

[Wutang]

I actually know some Christians that have met their spouses or girlfriends on Christian themes dating apps. The two I can think of are Upward and Crosspaths which operate similarly as Tinder with the swiping but are Christian themes

 

[God's lonely asperger]

I have to pass up on Hinge because I fear if I stopped using it I'd become unHinged.

But on a serious note it's not even available in my country.

 

[KulturedKaveman]

Of course, that requires women to not just seek the small number of chads that won't commit and are bad husbands, or bad potential prospects.

Potential solution - and I’m going to be labeled as nuts but here it goes. Return to monkey - hence my profile pic. What if we were all chads?

I’m serious - what if school was more physically driven? Think lots of activity and making people strong. Healthy diet in the caf, half of the day is essentially gym and cut out all the useless book learning. Remember - the internet exists. If someone is interested in something they’ll look over Wikipedia at 3am and learn. Keep the institutional learning to reading, writing, and math. If you want history, literature or science, the internet exists. Most of education isn’t necessary. What if we cut the useless education and made all men chads? unless you’re deformed or something you’d be a Chad with my ideal education model.

Start at 7am
7-10 individual working out
10 - 12 team games and sports
12 - 3 actual school
3 - 5 independent study

And no homework. Let’s face it - no one really does it. I feel our current education system is based on trying to turn everyone into a brain instead of their best self and building friendship. Truth is, not everyone’s supposed to be a brain. You need to be born with it. Our edumacation system needs to set people up for success, not conform them to boomer standards.

 

[Unending Powerhouse Match]

I suggest to join some mixed group activities / sports and just get comfortable interacting with women as a side effect. do this several times a week.

What women do to every social dynamic in every co-ed environment is legitimately horrifying, and the modern woman's social skills are often below those of an autistic man. There has to be a better way to go about this. Perhaps it would be enough to simply focus on cultivating your masculinity and acquiring virtuous male friends first and foremost until the "interacting with women" thing just comes naturally?

 

[KulturedKaveman]

the modern woman's social skills are often below those of an autistic man.

Think so? Really?

 

[Unending Powerhouse Match]

Think so? Really?

I mean, in my experience, yes. Obviously not always, but fairly often.

 

[eradicator]

Online dating was doable (even in Europe) and you could even find women who were marriage material during the 2010s.
However, since about 2020 it has turned awful.
Nowadays, probably only a few sites are worth considering - focusing on profiles abroad.

I was thinking it was much easier ten years ago. Part of it may just be that you will have an easier time online dating as a younger man. But I’m pretty sure the ratios were better 10 years ago and now they are just totally out of whack .

You can get results now but whether it’s worth the time to sink into it I’m not sure

 

[Bizet]

You mentioned you're Gen Z, so you're 26 or younger. Right now is the time to build up your value as a man. The women will come later. Your priorities should be your studies and getting into the gym. Don't make the same mistake I did and devot all your 20's to chasing girls and pay for it in your 30's.

Women are attracted to power, men are attracted to fertility. As a man, you're at your most attractive in your late 20's to early 30's. That is the best time to capitalise and find a wife.

I considered making a fake account to see if it was worth it at all making an account there, but I hate having to give out my phone number. "Alberto Barbosa Santos" with a Ted Kaczynski profile picture never got to see women in his short life time of being my spare gmail account. But yeah, that was my main plan. If there is at least one that isn't too degenerate, I'd probably stick around for a bit. I deleted most of my phone apps due to OCD scroolling them for too long, really hate doing that and it brought me no joy, so I probably wouldn't have the app for too long.
Probably the biggest reason I haven't made an account anywhere in that area yet is that I don't like giving away my phone, and I'm also kind of shy, especially due to it taking a while to even find a few pictures of me and that stuff. I'm used to no one even knowing my name in classes and that stuff.

This is something you'll have to get over. Most single women in 2023 are on dating apps. It's the most efficient way to meet them.

Nobody enjoys using dating apps - you'll have to suck it up and do it anyway. You can filter for Christian women on apps like Hinge and Bumble too.

Alernative apps for that are probably not very popular in my country/region.

If the problem us your region, you can move to a bigger city after you finish your studies.

I would rather recite Mein Kampf in a synagogue than dance in public, it's too much for me.

Stop making jokes like this. Women will find it weird. Stop relating to lone-wolf characters like 'Taxi Driver' as well.

Go join a local sports team, or start training boxing: something physical where you're around other men. It'll be good for your social skills and confidence, plus getting knocked down a few times will help get you out of your own head.

...

Sorry if any of that sounded harsh. I wish you the best of luck!

 

[ginsu]

What women do to every social dynamic in every co-ed environment is legitimately horrifying, and the modern woman's social skills are often below those of an autistic man. There has to be a better way to go about this. Perhaps it would be enough to simply focus on cultivating your masculinity and acquiring virtuous male friends first and foremost until the "interacting with women" thing just comes naturally?

The things i was thinking off are mostly physical activities in mixed groups bouldering, hiking, running, gym classes, crossfit, boxing, volleyball, dancing, or a language exhange. The physical nature of the activities never lets women get too overbearing because they are constantly reminded that the men are more competent than they are.