I’ve never been married, but I can relate to the personality type thing. I usually fluctuate between an INTJ, INTP, ENTJ, depending on how I answer the questions, but my preference is to be alone. I’ve found long term relationships, especially with women who annoy me over time extremely challenging. I can’t even imagine what it would be like with a couple of kids. My time alone is my sanctuary. I’ll pray for you brother, but I’ll let the married guys offer more constructive advice.
Marriage / Established Relationships
- Thread starter Steady Hands
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I’ve never been married, but I can relate to the personality type thing. I usually fluctuate between an INTJ, INTP, ENTJ, depending on how I answer the questions, but my preference is to be alone. I’ve found long term relationships, especially with women who annoy me over time extremely challenging. I can’t even imagine what it would be like with a couple of kids. My time alone is my sanctuary. I’ll pray for you brother, but I’ll let the married guys offer more constructive advice.
I think lots of guys on this forum have the type of personality described in Hermetic Seal's post. It's why I point out that in the those "finding a tradwife" threads that the optimal solution might actually be to remain single. Sure you have to deal with the issue of handling sexual urges but I argued on those threads that no matter what path you take on the marriage question there's going to be struggle whether it be with maintaining chasity in the case of remaining single or with the stress of family life as detailed in HM's post.
I've heard a few guys on this forum mention that they wouldn't really care if they didn't have much common with their wives or whether they share any interests as long as she's young and feminine but the post above illustrates how frustrating it can be constantly around a woman you don't have a lot of common ground with. I can't help but think that if some of the wife hunters are going to end up in the situation above if they ever do actually land their unicorn.
Also I hope none of what I wrote above is going to be seen as an attack on HM. My intention was just to highlight certain things that popped out to me because I thought it was relevant to a lot of the relationship issues that comes up regularly on here. I wish I had advice to give but I do not so I can only offer prayers and a sympathetic ear.
I've heard a few guys on this forum mention that they wouldn't really care if they didn't have much common with their wives or whether they share any interests as long as she's young and feminine but the post above illustrates how frustrating it can be constantly around a woman you don't have a lot of common ground with. I can't help but think that if some of the wife hunters are going to end up in the situation above if they ever do actually land their unicorn.
Also I hope none of what I wrote above is going to be seen as an attack on HM. My intention was just to highlight certain things that popped out to me because I thought it was relevant to a lot of the relationship issues that comes up regularly on here. I wish I had advice to give but I do not so I can only offer prayers and a sympathetic ear.
Like a bomb?
Go on a trip. I don´t orthodox how it works. But there´s a thing at least with catholics. Where you go on a retreat.
I like being around my kids everyday. And have incredible laughs with them. They are 8 and 12. Today we watched lionheart. Van damme. And we finished the best Van Damme movies.
You know what reasserts authority? A good smack in the bottom. Is this too blue collar for you?
It doesnt matter. Your the head of the family. Act like one.
Did you hire a housekeeper? Still a cheapfuck? HIRE A HOUSEKEEPER.
My housekeeper didnt came during holidays. It´s crazy how shit pile up. My wife has to cook breakfast, lunch and dinner. Except when we eat out or friends/relative. And to be honest even to me. It´s seems like crazy work. When the kids go to their school they eat there. You dump them at the school door. And no headaches on them eating properly.
Loooooll. How old are your kids? You liked doing gardening when you were young? During corona I made a table with my kids. The ugliest shit imaginable. But it still stands. What my kids enjoy is travels. Just as I or any kids I suppose enjoy. But now I need to dedicate myself to refurbish a house.
When we were young we hated anything related to manual labor. My parents are intellectuals who consider manual labor to be peasant work. Except if it´s related to arts. I don´t dislike manual labor per si. I hate the time it consumes. It´s so much time consuming. And you can´t pause. Fucking shit doesn´t pause. If you start you have to do it in one shot. Also some things you need a helper. It doesn´t matter how good you are.
Also people generally treat you worse if they see you doing manual labor. But this might be a southern europe thing.
She is a woman? And you expect her to act like a man?
Buying junk is a problem. Buying useless shit is a problem.
Have more. This is one mistake I will carry with me. Not having more kids. But I will correct it with grandchildren. I´m thinking on paying my kids like 50K for each kid they have. And paying everything they need.
Oh she is religious. And you are still not happy? You did marry her. So why do you want to change the woman you were attracted to Dude orthodox has no expression in US. Actually I have no idea why doesnt the orthodox churches invest more. With this wave.
It´s not your wife problem.
HIRE A HOUSEKEEPER.
I’d like to point out one more thing. Note that my experience is in RC. Most ‘advice’ I’ve gotten from people in church and even clergy has been completely useless. This hasn’t been in the area of holding a marriage together, although priests have offered advice on modern dating and courtship, which was so useless I had to restrain from laughing at how out of touch they were. They also say things like it’s your cross to bear.
On that note, I’ll state something that has been obvious to me. There is a cult of suffering and magical thinking in the church that has to go away. Instead of working hard and using your brain to solve problems, advice is given that God will take care of it. Even worse, some idiots take pride and think that wallowing in suffering, that most of time is solvable, is some noble act. Not to say all suffering is avoidable, but much of it is.
Another thing. In this fast paced world, most people in church don’t care. People will offer up prayers, platitudes, then two seconds later be looking at the next video on TikTok. In other words, if you want to fix your situation, you’re going to have to do the grunt work and find solutions yourself.
If we were to take the option of single life wouldn't some kind of Christian retreat option be worth considering? I think there are some places where you can live in mountains just praying all day or whatever.
Off topic, but yes. I went and lived in a RC monastery for a while. It was very peaceful, and basically consisted of going to mass multiple times a day all in Latin. The monks mostly leave you be and they are all based. The particular Abott at my monastery was strange though and seemed to have some sort of grudge against me. Never figured out why, but since I was new to the masses and they were all in Latin, I was definitely messing some things up in mass. I’m not sure if I could do it long term, but I could write a thread about it if there is interest.
I went to mass, ate sparingly, and took walks in the afternoon. It was very regimented.
Sad to read this. I recognise your courage in posting here, and this is a very complex situation that deserves a correspondingly thoughtful response. Unfortunately I'm unable to offer this in writing at the moment.
Instead, as I believe you are sincere, I'll offer you my personal consultation in private in case you want to discuss this in depth. (No cost involved, I consider this to be meaningful volunteer work).
Feel free to read my thread in the Meetups section for info and instructions, then PM me if you want.
All the best.
I would say that living a monk-style life would be a good option but that doesn't necessarily mean actually formally becoming a monk. Roosh would be a good example to observe. He spent a lot of time visiting monasteries and was intrigued by what he saw but he also at the same time never felt the calling to be a monk himself so he didn't go down that path. If there's no calling and you join a monastery for the wrong reasons that could lead to spiritual disaster. Rather he seems to be living a semi-monk lifestyle where he works in the secular world but also is devoted to prayer and practicing his faith though without being in a monastery himself.
In my own (Protestant) church they've mentioned that if you don't have a family yourself then you should be devoting yourself to service. I was at a service once where they profiled a single guy in his 40s who was talking about how he knew family life likely going to be a reality for him so instead he devoted himself to the small group that he leads. He spends a lot of time praying for the other guys and checking on up on them to see how they are doing in their lives and acting as a sympathetic ear if they ever have something on their heart.
You are absolutely right. When I met my wife a decade ago I held to the Manosphere line of argument you mentioned here and didn't care that we didn't have a ton in common. Of course, that's changed somewhat over time - back then we were both in the evangelical megachurch world, and as I mentioned in my previous post, now I'm Orthodox and she isn't. At the time, we also shared some common interest in nerd pop-culture stuff and would go see Marvel movies and stuff together, but I grew to despise that sort thing within a few years.
My parents are (well, "were" since my mom passed away about a year ago) a shining example of a successful marriage, and a big part of that was that they enjoyed doing shared activities together that they both enjoyed. They had their own individual interests and pursuits, but genuinely enjoyed spending time together. Perhaps more importantly, their personalities gelled exceedingly well. They were on the same wavelength about things like parenting and lifestyle. My brothers and their wives have the same thing going on. My wife and I... don't. On a surface level we seem to hold similar values (for instance, she loves Trump and is enthusiastic about homeschooling - though I sincerely doubt at this point she could actually pull it off - and is skeptical of vaccines, Big Pharma, toxic garbage food.) But below this surface level, there's a huge disparity.
It's not like I had a lot of other women vying for my attention back in 2015, but if I had to do it all over again I'd prioritize trying to marry someone with a personality type that complemented rather than clashed with mine. It didn't help that the pre-marital counseling I received was utterly useless and avoided any focus on anything that actually mattered. What I needed was somebody to boldly force me to reckon with the issues in my relationship that I couldn't really perceive at the time, but sadly there was none of this.
The whole "my wife ain't my buddy!" mindset works great for extroverted "alpha" type guys who spend little time at home, where the domestic sphere is wholly delegated to a highly-competent mother-homemaker, but as most realize at this point, trying to export the particular attitudes and circumstances of a very small percentage of men with a particular personality to all men just tends to lead to discord, if not disaster.
I don't know that I would have wanted to be a monk if I had been aware that option existed. I do think my personality type would potentially be well suited to that, but the demand for celibacy is clearly beyond me.
@Hermetic Seal I hope you don't mind, but I reposted your posts in another thread. https://christisking.cc/threads/the-destruction-of-modern-women.59/page-72#post-74765 As I mentioned in that thread I don't do this in a mocking way but because I think your story is something that is very relevant to what I've seen other guys talk about when it comes to their own aspirations for marriage. Please feel free to add your own comments too especially if you think I misrepresented anything.
No problem at all, I appreciate your comments/responses.
I disagree with this conclusion. There’s no way for you to know whether a woman that shares your interests, whatever that means, would have respected you and been led by you. Especially considering that you’ve changed quite a bit over the years.
Sounds like you’re experiencing a tale as old as time. Your wife is creating her own bubble and you’re just the provider.
I don’t think this is a situation where you need to re-alpha the relationship per se, since it doesn’t work like that, but rather find a way to come to terms with your situation and make the best of it.
A good way to look it at is your wife is grounding you to the society at large while you seem to be withdrawing from it.
Rather than resenting your wife for not holding your coattail, which I can empathize with fully, I would suggest trying to reassert yourself inside your wife’s world. Seems like you’re refusing to participate in the stupid things she does. I would wager it’s because you’re not able to shape those situations to your liking and just go along for the ride. Even if you’re going along for the ride, you can at least demand terms. Then you can use that to do “give and take” with your wife.
I don't know what country you currently live in but in any English speaking 1st world country house keepers cost a fortune.
I think an Airbnb turnover costs about $150 for a modest three bedroom house. That's comparable to the level of service you'd want for a cleaning crew to come to your own home. If you had two of these a month, and then just kept up with dishes, trash and laundry for two weeks between deep cleanings, it would do a lot of good. That's $300 a month, which is not trivial, but it is affordable for a lot of middle class families with both spouses working. If the family can afford it, and housework is otherwise a critical source of stress, then it's money well spent.
Most people who hire cleaners want their house cleaned once per week. At $150 a pop that would be around $600 USD per month.
Also I assume when he writes housekeeper he means a part time maid rather than just a cleaner.
If you want a part-time maid to clean your house then do additional chores like laundry, dishes, cooking etc on top of the cleaning you would be looking at least $1000 - $1500 USD per month if you want somebody dependable. For a lot of families that is a substantial amount of money.