Daily Interactions With Women

Doraemon said:
These are several of my interactions with women, but these all failed due to my own incompetencies or other reasons:
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Yes, your post screamed badminton events are gold and you should ask for numbers more often - as Australia said, err on the side of aggression.
Bizet said:
That being said, I should really start adding daygame to my daily routine again, along with Hinge.
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Is Hinge that thing based off of facebook? It's interesting that you think it's valuable. [I don't know if it is or isn't, btw]
Lawrence87 said:
I'm not talking about some kind of manifestation nonsense, but there is a lot to be said for having an optimistic attitude when it comes to things like this. A pessimistic attitude will lead to not chasing up opportunities or not even seeking them in the first place.
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Larry gives good advice here, very good. My current take is that I don't see very many physically attractive women that are in locations one can be around to create natural interactions or comfort. I'll admit I also don't really trust the culture of the west, women are that far gone to me unless humbled by old age (which doesn't help me) but I wouldn't say anything is impossible.
Australia Sucks said:
There is no correct answer here, but from my many years of experience in general I would say on average it works out better if you err on the side of making a move on the woman too early rather than too late.
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Yes.
GodfatherPartTwo said:
I agree that "good man" should be defined by the higher Christian context. That means a good man is necessarily humble, not weak, but humble. With humility comes a lack of neediness because you are content with trusting in God's will and timing. There comes the overlap with the redpill, as so much of the redpill is about faking it till you make it/abundance mentality/outcome independence. The superiority of the God pill is that you don't have to fake it at all and it's catered towards attracting the kind of woman you actually want to be with.
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Another good post and advice. My "but" here is that mostly in the modern day, there is less spiritual sensing by most people but an even further drop of what women once had (questionable, since it was always based on the culture) in terms of their even caring about it. My explanation for that is that mostly humility for women will come from a needs basis, and that's what we see - you only really see it when they are (too) old now. As for the rest, the fattening has really taken a lot of the otherwise possibly gifted ones out of the realm of interest. I could be incorrect, but does anyone here deny that the number of attractive women is exceedingly small? Let's face it, everyone's chasing the few that are even just thin, let alone the better looking ones.

The Olympics was a good showing of this. I saw quite a few reels or comments on how good looking some of the olympians were, but I've been paying attention over the years (especially since track girls always had better bodies) and this wasn't any real change from the past. There are several good looking and in shape girls, but there were plenty of meh and ugly too, as usual. The difference now is that physical fitness is almost confined to just IG models and track girls, or similar media clout artists.
 
Doraemon said:
Thank you for correcting me, I will do better in the future.
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Respect for the humility.

Doraemon said:
If you want to know why I am so bitter with regards to relationship with women, here is my reason. I have to compensate for my past mistake by chalking up some wins as fast as possible.
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Appreciate your efforts in that post to explain your situation. It makes sense. Indeed, I've been there.

Keep reminding yourself that you will regret inaction more than action, and use this mindset to help build resilience when things don't go as planned.

How old are you? This is useful information to understand your situation.

Doraemon said:
After reflecting on myself, I will refrain from posting on game/relationship/courtship threads until I have made enough self-improvement. I have to make sure my "looks, money, status" and physical, intellectual, and spiritual life is in order first before I can begin thinking of relationship.
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Two suggestions follow:

1. Remember that telling people they are wrong will not help you

Your stated intention seems to be linked to the negative feedback you got about your use of the terms like "AMOG" etc, in that, you want to avoid getting punished when participating here. For posting on CIK, I would suggest you do your best to avoid confrontation with other posters, and to reframe all criticism as an opportunity to learn and grow. Here are some ideas to consider that can help to implement this :
  • Telling others they are wrong or unhelpful, may make yourself feel right, however this will NOT make them become more helpful. For them, their advice may indeed be correct. So, even if their advice is wrong for you, it may have been right for them.
  • If they feel insulted, this makes things even worse. This will cause them to defend themselves, double down, and fight back to show how, actually, you are the one who is wrong. This leads to more bickering, unless one person can show humility or excuse themselves from the argument.
  • Reviewing the implied tone not just the explicit content of your communication can make a big difference. Nobody can read the emotions behind your writings, and even an excellent point (content) can be overshadowed by the way it's expressed (tone).
  • These principles are especially important for people who are seeking advice and trying to improve their situation. If you ask for help, and get criticised, ask yourself "is there some information here that I can use"?
  • Further, try to refrain from criticising them back. Instead, consider some of the approaches listed below, under the subsections 'some ideas' and 'TLDR - issues and solutions'. I've quoted this post in full, as I'm unsure if you have access to the thread (?)
Steady Hands said:
Me when the CIK bros fight

Sad Spongebob Squarepants GIF


Background

This post is not directed at any particular person, it's moreso a reflection of some concern about the infighting. As we have a relatively small base of core contributors, I hope we don't lose valuable present and future CIK members due to this.

The factors at play

I hope members can at least consider that we have and/or could have many things in common, otherwise we would not be involved here. Sometimes our differences in opinions rather than our commonalities get amplified, which exacerbates online grievances, even if people in real life would actually get along. I know this for a fact because I've scratched my head reading other's posts and had negative pictures of them in my mind. Yet when we met we actually got along fine.

This phenomenon of internet bickering is amplified by a few things such as the in-built negativity bias of humans; the anonymous, easy, and consequence-free nature of posting online; the tendency of conservatives to have stronger values of purity; and the willingness of 'lone wolf' men to disagree based on internal principles or simply, enjoyment.

Everyone has a fundamental need to be right. We all have a need to hold our worldview as stable, and congruent with our values and actions. Also, when people confront our attitudes or beliefs, our natural instinct is to resist and push back. So, insulting others will never work if one's goal is to share information and arguments that change minds.

My culpability

I recognise my own guilt here. I've had to mentally stop myself countless times from posting sarcastic GIFs, snarky one liner insults, or even "here is my 2,000 word essay for why you are wrong and I am right". I recognise that my pride often stems from a need to be smart. I have found relief in taking a breath, mentally reciting a phrase like "not my problem", and moving on.

Personally, I've concluded that except for the people whose wellbeing/behaviour impacts me directly AND for those within my direct sphere of influence (i.e., wife/kids/family), there is no real necessity for me to "teach" anyone. I feel a keen sense of meaning when helping out friends and colleagues, but try to only give advice when it is explicitly requested, or at least when I know I'm in a good position to confidently help through experience, skills, support etc. YMMV.

Some ideas

Considering the above, we may benefit from taking a conscious approach in online communication, as the rules of synchronised real-life conversation don't apply.

I would suggest that if a particular person is not interested in your position, consider adjusting your way of communicating, or move on to engaging someone or something else. If someone isn't "listening" to you after say 2 attempts (or 3 or more!), it is probably time to try a new approach or let it go. Skipping over certain threads or posts is a great way to stay engaged elsewhere.

Another approach could be to use humour and try to reduce the seriousness. This light-hearted approach is my preferred choice these days. Although there is a risk that others won't get the playful intent and/or don't get the joke, and may feel alienated.

Additionally, consider holding off or reframing the direct "you should do this" kind of advice unless someone explicitly asks for it. Keep in mind that even when people ASK for advice, they often do not want to consider it, let alone DO anything with it. This could be because they just want emotional/social support not problem-solving; they only want ideas that are aligned with their existing worldview; they are contemplating change but not ready to take first steps in changing behaviours, etc.

(For outright trolls or bad actors I'd just hit the report button and/or have some fun with it.)

⌚️ TLDR - issues and solutions ⌚️

- We have a lot in common however online chats can amplify differences.
- This conflict is par for course based on human nature including our need to be right and defend our beliefs.
- Some potential answers include options like:
  • reflecting on commonalities over differences.
  • remembering we can't insult anyone to change their mind.
  • if someone is not hearing you, considering changing your communication, or simply move on. Letting things go is mentally freeing.
  • if you know a certain topic/poster irritates you, trying to avoid them, hit 'ignore', or quickly scroll on.
  • using humour and playfulness as an alternative approach.
I hope this helps.
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2. Do not delay direct action; instead, start the smallest next step today.

I would advise against this approach of delaying action because of "not being ready". This is a very common practice of young men -- and even older men -- that is often used as a shield to avoid possible rejection and ego wounding relating to the possible failure of achieving their goals.

For instance, there are men who state things like "I don't have enough money to support kids yet, so I won't bother trying to start a relationship". Can you see any flaws in this approach? This person may never truly feel 100% ready. Moreover, some men who state these things are in their 40s. This suggests that delaying action represents more than simply a concern about objective monetary needs. And this doesn't even get into the other limitations of this approach, for instance, the fact that a man cannot decide "I am ready" and then phooof! [a wife appears]. Screening, finding and courting a woman for marriage usually takes considerable time, as in, several years.

While it is true that certain things must be sorted before getting married, and you may not be ready to get married tomorrow, this doesn't mean that you have to wait to start working on your positive interactions, social skills, socialising with women etc.

Instead of not posting here or waiting until you have more money/status/etc, consider taking small actions on a daily basis to enhance your social skills, confidence with women, and a general sense that you are moving forward towards your deeper goals.

Taking these actions does not compel you to court a woman for potential marriage. But delaying these steps will likely delay your actual readiness to take action when the next opportunity arises to start the courting process. The whole process can take a long time. Yet this opportunity to start this process can come at any time. What happens if it comes tomorrow, but you decided you don't have enough money to buy a house right now, so you better not ask to meet the woman in front of you again?

Here are some tangible actions that you can use as a start on a regular basis and across a range of contexts. Consider working on these and report back.

Has this been this useful? Do let me know. All the best 👍

Steady Hands said:
...

Now, some action tips as a start:
  1. Every time you go outside, make a conscious effort to make small talk with everyone, where the situation permits. E.g., waiting in line somewhere.
  2. Practice light chit chat with store clerks and other workers (remember that almost all workers will be nice as part of their job, so move on quickly to avoid overstaying your welcome).
  3. Where possible, try to make the other person smile or laugh. Keep everything friendly, light, and fun.
  4. Use situational cues to start a conversation with women about something in the environment, with no further outcome in mind. (For the Maddox example, you could walk into a women's clothing section and simply ask why X thing is popular. No need to escalate further. This is just making random conversation to build your social skills and comfort, and hopefully to brighten the day of someone else just for a few moments. Thus, no need to worry about having a deeper "reason" to be there.)
  5. Maintain this practice on a regular basis.
  6. Ensure, where possible, that it's balanced with socialising through church, friends, social circle, groups/clubs, work etc.
Some critical aspects of growth and mindset:
  • Get feedback from the environment, friends, and others. If you haven't achieved your goals yet, consider the value of listening to others who have achieved similar things to what you want.
  • Use self-reflection to adapt and improve. Always be ready to look inwards as a means to grow. It's essential to be brutally honest with yourself, and not to shy away from making real self-assesments about both your strengths and areas to work on.
  • Try to "give" in early interactions without any expectation of reciprocation. Be ready for some people to look at you weirdly, ignore you, make you feel rejected etc. This is an unavoidable part of taking social risks.
  • It's difficult to over-emphasise how important it is to steel yourself mentally/emotionally and to become resilient in the face of rejection. Yet men must take such risks, and persist in the face of them, to succeed in life.
And from there...

Once you get more confident with the above, then you can advance to consciously approaching attractive women and transitioning from indirect situational chats that last under a minute, to deeper conversations that could go anywhere. And beyond.

I hope this helps.
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Being a good man is extremely important, imo. Not that I, a filthy sinner, consider myself a "good" man. But if you want to be with a quality Godly woman you need to be the kind of man she would be attracted to. And if you aren't a good man and not willing to make an effort and you somehow get with a good woman, how do you think that is going to work? And would you even want to be with a woman who would be interested in you if you aren't a good man? Think about it.

My strategy was to first address my physical health and fitness and to attend church and to get all aspects of my life in order the best I could manage. I did that for about 6 months to a year. I knew the woman I wanted to marry wouldn't be interested in the old man and I wouldn't want to be with a woman that would settle for the old man. And in any case, the relationship wouldn't work without help from God and support from the Church. Next I tried online (Orthodox) dating, looking around at church, etc without success. Due to where I lived there weren't many good options, but I kept looking and praying.

Then one day I noticed a certain woman who was posting on RVF about her life and she seemed to be interested in a relationship but wasn't finding one, for various reasons. She seemed nice, but a bit lonely. I had noticed her before but never connected the dots. Also I thought that seemed a bit far fetched, meeting someone on the Internet like that, but I figured what did I have to lose? And I knew she lived many states away from me.

I could tell from her posts we had some things in common, at least. So I approached her (virtually) and put all my cards on the table right up front. I said hi my name is, and I noticed you might be interested in a relationship based on some things you posted, and you seem like an intelligent and sweet woman, and we seem to have some things in common, etc. I told her I was looking for a wife with the goal of starting a family, I am an Orthodox Christian, listed the values that are important to me, told her a bit about my story, etc. And then I said are you interested in talking more about this? And if not take care & God bless.

This would work a little differently if it were done in person but I think it is doable anywhere, with the right woman and situation, if you do your homework. Even with a stranger you could still do some degree of this radical honesty/up front approach. She said she was blown away because men almost never do that and it was very refreshing and it immediately got her attention. She was interested and we started talking, first on the forum and then on the phone and later video calls and next thing I know I'm buying plane tickets to go meet her, because I knew if it was for real I had to go find out and lock it down. We have now been married for about 2 1/2 years.

So I would say first figure out who you are and what you want out of life, visualize your future wife and the qualities you want in her, do the work to become the man your wife would be attracted to, think and pray about it and write it all down and practice talking about it, and think about how you would relay that in a concise way to a woman you meet in a way that won't creep her out. Pray for help and be yourself, be honest. The nice thing is if she likes that approach you will never have to pretend to be something you aren't and you can relax into the relationship. A bit of common sense and psychology is fine but you don't need "game" if you do it correctly. And if she doesn't respond then she just saved you both a bunch of time and you can move on to the next woman. Or like in my case, you might find "the one" right away, if it is God's will.
 
δούλος του Χριστού said:
Being a good man is extremely important, imo. Not that I, a filthy sinner, consider myself a "good" man. But if you want to be with a quality Godly woman you need to be the kind of man she would be attracted to. And if you aren't a good man and not willing to make an effort and you somehow get with a good woman, how do you think that is going to work? And would you even want to be with a woman who would be interested in you if you aren't a good man? Think about it.

My strategy was to first address my physical health and fitness and to attend church and to get all aspects of my life in order the best I could manage. I did that for about 6 months to a year. I knew the woman I wanted to marry wouldn't be interested in the old man and I wouldn't want to be with a woman that would settle for the old man. And in any case, the relationship wouldn't work without help from God and support from the Church. Next I tried online (Orthodox) dating, looking around at church, etc without success. Due to where I lived there weren't many good options, but I kept looking and praying.

Then one day I noticed a certain woman who was posting on RVF about her life and she seemed to be interested in a relationship but wasn't finding one, for various reasons. She seemed nice, but a bit lonely. I had noticed her before but never connected the dots. Also I thought that seemed a bit far fetched, meeting someone on the Internet like that, but I figured what did I have to lose? And I knew she lived many states away from me.

I could tell from her posts we had some things in common, at least. So I approached her (virtually) and put all my cards on the table right up front. I said hi my name is, and I noticed you might be interested in a relationship based on some things you posted, and you seem like an intelligent and sweet woman, and we seem to have some things in common, etc. I told her I was looking for a wife with the goal of starting a family, I am an Orthodox Christian, listed the values that are important to me, told her a bit about my story, etc. And then I said are you interested in talking more about this? And if not take care & God bless.

This would work a little differently if it were done in person but I think it is doable anywhere, with the right woman and situation, if you do your homework. Even with a stranger you could still do some degree of this radical honesty/up front approach. She said she was blown away because men almost never do that and it was very refreshing and it immediately got her attention. She was interested and we started talking, first on the forum and then on the phone and later video calls and next thing I know I'm buying plane tickets to go meet her, because I knew if it was for real I had to go find out and lock it down. We have now been married for about 2 1/2 years.

So I would say first figure out who you are and what you want out of life, visualize your future wife and the qualities you want in her, do the work to become the man your wife would be attracted to, think and pray about it and write it all down and practice talking about it, and think about how you would relay that in a concise way to a woman you meet in a way that won't creep her out. Pray for help and be yourself, be honest. The nice thing is if she likes that approach you will never have to pretend to be something you aren't and you can relax into the relationship. A bit of common sense and psychology is fine but you don't need "game" if you do it correctly. And if she doesn't respond then she just saved you both a bunch of time and you can move on to the next woman. Or like in my case, you might find "the one" right away, if it is God's will.
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"So, how did you meet your wife?"

"I sent her a private message on RVF, flew out of state to meet her, and here we are today."

Bill Murray Applause GIF by MOODMAN


God is great!

We need this story told in full as a novel, and posted in a subforum 'Legendary Stories of RVF/CIK'.

200.gif
 
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I met a hot, early 20s Christian blonde recently and asked her out. She's taken unfortunately. These are the women I like (hell, all men do), but they're usually taken.

There's a few women I've gotten to know that show interest but are really annoying about the way they do it, so now I just ignore them. I know other guys that go through the same thing with them.

At least in Christian communities, it seems like the hottest women are usually the nicest. These Plain Jane, career womynz need to get over themselves. Maybe it's their way of protecting their feelings?
 
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What's even stranger is when a girl talks about her career in a way where she thinks a man will like her more. Not all of them actually are career oriented but are misguided in trying to obtain a good man. So always keep this in mind.
Many will drop this "career" immediately to stay home with the kids. Think teachers and nurses here.
 
Get2choppaaa said:
Again these calculated variables and autistic questions make me wonder how much success people asking these questions are really having...

It's pretty simple, and should come natural. Again not promoting hook up culture, but by the time you're getting intimate with a woman, you should know that they are reciprocating. It's not like you're a hunter shooting an unsuspecting deer.
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You misunderstood the point of my post. The context (which was related to situations Doraemon posted about) was when do you make the first move and first show interest in a woman and ask for her number, ask her out on a date, etc? You took my post completely out of context.

Obviously by the time you get to the point of potential intimacy you usually already know whats going on. But early on its not always easy to gauge how interested a woman is and when is the right time to show your interest and ask for a number arrange a meetup, etc.
 
Douglas Quaid said:
At least in Christian communities, it seems like the hottest women are usually the nicest. These Plain Jane, career womynz need to get over themselves. Maybe it's their way of protecting their feelings?
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I know the kind you're talking about. The hot ones are nice but you need to be a rock solid man to have a chance. They'll sniff out any sign of insecurity or inauthenticity. The plain janes are insecure themselves and will overlook your weakness.

In my secular days I'd gotten so many signs of initial interest but I always lacked the cojones to follow through. I pray when I meet my future wife God will grant me the strength to be a man and court her, or else forever regret it.
 
Australia Sucks said:
You misunderstood the point of my post. The context (which was related to situations Doraemon posted about) was when do you make the first move and first show interest in a woman and ask for her number, ask her out on a date, etc? You took my post completely out of context.

Obviously by the time you get to the point of potential intimacy you usually already know whats going on. But early on its not always easy to gauge how interested a woman is and when is the right time to show your interest and ask for a number arrange a meetup, etc.
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Forgive me.

But the point of my total conjecture is still there. If it's calcualted and not natural... its forced. If its forced its not genuine. Again, I'm not pretending to have been Casanova. But as I've said. It's not rocket science. "Hi, I'm Choppaaa, nice to meet you. Small talk point 1 , 2 , 3 banter 2 or 3 minutes. What's your number, I'd like to chat with you in the future"

All the above is genuine and innocuous and part of normal interactions with women. It is something that should take such little energy and thought and its as passing as crop dusting people in walmart with a fart.
 
Get2choppaaa said:
But the point of my total conjecture is still there. If it's calcualted and not natural... its forced. If its forced its not genuine. Again, I'm not pretending to have been Casanova. But as I've said. It's not rocket science. "Hi, I'm Choppaaa, nice to meet you. Small talk point 1 , 2 , 3 banter 2 or 3 minutes. What's your number, I'd like to chat with you in the future"
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I would say you are oversimplifying it and it really depends on the context and there are many variables to consider.

For example in certain countries women are more cautious about giving their number out to strangers and you often have to talk for much longer and sometimes even go for an insta-date before asking for the number otherwise they will reject you.

Also it depends if its a woman you will see regularly or not. Its a general rule of thumb that the less time you have spent with a woman the less comfort she will have regarding you. Sure if you approach a girl at the bus stop, etc you better ask for the number quickly because you probably won't see her again and the bus could show up at any time. But for example if its a new barista who started working at your local coffee shop if you know you are going to see her multiple times a week why not try to build up the comfort level and make small talk for 3 or 4 visits before you ask for the number then she has a higher chance of saying yes. Also spotlight effect is another factor there needs to be the right place/timing for example if you ask a girl when she is at work in front of her boss its unlikely to go well. There are so many other variables I am not going to go into.
 
analyst_green said:
I know the kind you're talking about. The hot ones are nice but you need to be a rock solid man to have a chance. They'll sniff out any sign of insecurity or inauthenticity. The plain janes are insecure themselves and will overlook your weakness.

In my secular days I'd gotten so many signs of initial interest but I always lacked the cojones to follow through. I pray when I meet my future wife God will grant me the strength to be a man and court her, or else forever regret it.
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Yeah I know what you mean about being rock solid. A big thing that helps is knowing other people in the community (the girls notice this) and being a sincere Christian (routinely going to church, reading the Bible, etc.). It has taken me a while to get the confidence to talk to these kinds of women, but now I try to introduce myself when I see one of them and they show interest. They're rare so you might as well go for it.

One thing I really like is they're pretty forgiving if you aren't some confident Chad. I think they're nervous too, which is good because that means they aren't like the modern women sleeping around, partying, going to a big university, etc. I have honestly looked like an awkward 18 year old boy instead of a 34 year old man at times, but I wasn't used to these types of women.

You basically have to be a Christian Chad, which is pretty doable and a lot more fulfilling way of meeting women anyway. And Christian Chads get nervous around women too. But all you have to do is break the ice and now you have a way of talking to them again.

All the annoying women have been good practice for the ones that actually matter.
 
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Get2choppaaa said:
Forgive me.

But the point of my total conjecture is still there. If it's calcualted and not natural... its forced. If its forced its not genuine. Again, I'm not pretending to have been Casanova. But as I've said. It's not rocket science. "Hi, I'm Choppaaa, nice to meet you. Small talk point 1 , 2 , 3 banter 2 or 3 minutes. What's your number, I'd like to chat with you in the future"

All the above is genuine and innocuous and part of normal interactions with women. It is something that should take such little energy and thought and its as passing as crop dusting people in walmart with a fart.
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I generally agree, but keep in mind that we're at a point in time where talking to women isn't considered normal for many / possibly most men in the west. If you say small talk and banter 2 or 3 minutes, many men have no idea what you're talking about.

Some will end up essentially asking interview questions, while feeling both uncomfortable and inadequate. This stuff comes more naturally to men from cultures that socialize more and also hang out in large mixed groups. They're familiar with women. But many of us in the west exclusively have male friends. Thus, when those men are single they might go months, sometimes even years without talking to women.

I never use pick up lines. I despise them. However, in my shy days I can remember how they'd give me a lifeline. I knew I could be charismatic and funny around women, but I simply didn't know how to.
 
Droughtmeat said:
I generally agree, but keep in mind that we're at a point in time where talking to women isn't considered normal for many / possibly most men in the west. If you say small talk and banter 2 or 3 minutes, many men have no idea what you're talking about.

Some will end up essentially asking interview questions, while feeling both uncomfortable and inadequate. This stuff comes more naturally to men from cultures that socialize more and also hang out in large mixed groups. They're familiar with women. But many of us in the west exclusively have male friends. Thus, when those men are single they might go months, sometimes even years without talking to women.

I never use pick up lines. I despise them. However, in my shy days I can remember how they'd give me a lifeline. I knew I could be charismatic and funny around women, but I simply didn't know how to.
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This is definitely true especially after high school and college for many men in the West. In my case, I don't talk to many women outside of work but back in college I would hang around many of them at social gatherings and parties. So if you've done it before, it comes back pretty easily. For those who have nearly no experience socializing with young women, I imagine it will probably be much more difficult.

The key for most guys is to relax. Especially when you're interested in a certain woman, you will feel the sexual tension build up if you engage her in conversation. Many men feel that and they get anxious and their entire body starts to tense up, as if their desire is something to be ashamed of. However, it is perfectly natural as you are a man and she is a woman. You have to relax and let that sexual energy flow through you (in a controlled manner, you don't want to get carried away). The Song of Songs is actually a great portrayal showing how courtship is very erotically charged, but not in an indecent way.

Avoiding porn and lustful thoughts is also key here, as if you've indulged in it recently you will be rightly ashamed and it will be difficult to talk to women. But the longer you retain your seed, the more that sexual energy builds up and interacting with women feels more natural.
 
Droughtmeat said:
I generally agree, but keep in mind that we're at a point in time where talking to women isn't considered normal for many / possibly most men in the west. If you say small talk and banter 2 or 3 minutes, many men have no idea what you're talking about.

Some will end up essentially asking interview questions, while feeling both uncomfortable and inadequate. This stuff comes more naturally to men from cultures that socialize more and also hang out in large mixed groups.
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The other thing is conversations are a two way thing, its impossible for one side no matter how skilled to completely carry a conversation.

Western women by and large simply don't know how to have a conversation.

I have found when I go to non-western countries its much easier to talk to women because the have more understanding of the art of conversation whereas western women have no social skills and are borderline autistic.

Although this lack of social and conversational skills is rapidly spreading to other countries. But still I can't remember the last time I had an interesting conversation with a woman from an anglo-sphere country.
 
Australia Sucks said:
Western women by and large simply don't know how to have a conversation.
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Absolutely. I've started a conversation with a woman that I already knew, and walked away mid conversation without saying bye because she's so autistic and annoying.

Or just completely ignore women after they start acting like this. They do that stupid thing to walk out of their way to get your attention, so I just pretend they're not even there. It actually feels pretty good. We've already met a few times, so why wouldn't they just say hi if they want to talk...

Most Western women are retarded.
 
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