The Hot-Holy Matrix

[analyst_green]

What's the take here on 'decent' women who are not Christian?

For example a woman might be pleasant, even traditional but no interest in God.

Or women that do have interest in God/are feminine but took the quackcines

Would you make concessions here?

A pleasant women with no interest in God is arguably better than a nutjob Christian woman. The former's issue can be easier to correct than the latter's.

That being said, marriage is a sacrament from God. If a woman doesn't see it that way, she has no logical reason not to leave you. If it's just a contract of convenience, why wouldn't a woman decide to jump to a better option if things get rough in your marriage?

 

[Tippy]

A pleasant women with no interest in God is arguably better than a nutjob Christian woman. The former's issue can be easier to correct than the latter's.

That being said, marriage is a sacrament from God. If a woman doesn't see it that way, she has no logical reason not to leave you. If it's just a contract of convenience, why wouldn't a woman decide to jump to a better option if things get rough in your marriage?

Does the value of marriage even make sense if she doesn't see it as a union in the Christian sense?

Or is it OK if you have your faith and just accept at best she will pay lip service to it and not be a full believer.

 

[analyst_green]

Does the value of marriage even make sense if she doesn't see it as a union in the Christian sense?

Or is it OK if you have your faith and just accept at best she will pay lip service to it and not be a full believer.

A marriage performed in the Church will always have value. However, we are generally only supposed to marry faithful, practicing Orthodox or in certain cases other practicing Christians baptized in the name of the Holy Trinity. Anything else is asking for trouble.

The only exception is if someone comes to the faith while already married to a non-believer, he should not divorce her.

 

[Wutang]

Paul wrote that if an unbelieving spouse wishes to depart the marriage to let the the spouse depart. I can see how this can lead to problems in the secular sense even if it's okay religiously.

 

[Iakobos]

What's the take here on 'decent' women who are not Christian?

For example a woman might be pleasant, even traditional but no interest in God.

Or women that do have interest in God/are feminine but took the quackcines

Would you make concessions here?

I married one from the former category and with God's help have slowly led her to the Church. But it has taken and continues to take a lot of patience and shepherding. It requires a high level of discernment to accurately identify such a woman who is a-religious yet may be legitimately willing to open her heart to Christ down the road and I did not do so consciously but I believe I was guided by God in my heart. I've encountered others with similar stories in my parish. She has to exhibit at least a bit of curiosity in the faith or it probably won't work out. However it is possible to be a strong example of a Christian who invokes such curiosity. I have never been such an example myself but have seen this story play out in others who successfully led their wives to conversion.

 

[Tippy]

A pleasant women with no interest in God is arguably better than a nutjob Christian woman. The former's issue can be easier to correct than the latter's.

That being said, marriage is a sacrament from God. If a woman doesn't see it that way, she has no logical reason not to leave you. If it's just a contract of convenience, why wouldn't a woman decide to jump to a better option if things get rough in your marriage?

I guess we need to describe what we mean by 'pleasant' as my definition mostly meant not radically feminist or masculine or promiscuous.

I've more worried about my tendency to get quite emotionally or even sexually consumed with secular relationships and neglected my spiritual side as a result. Sometimes I've thought 'if only I had a churchly woman that'd be easier to life a holy life!'

I think I need to sort out my own personal faith first. It can be hard to do that if the woman isn't understanding or is dismissive.

Also you can easily get distracted by a relationship with a woman and put it second to your one with God.

 

[Seng Hock]

Father Moses shared this on his page the other day for his wife, It was his anniversary, this is a great transformation.

Yikes—so Fr. Moses used to be a thug back in the day, and his wife also had that punk or gangster vibe.

But when you mentioned a "great transformation," what exactly did you mean? Are you saying Moses the Thug became Father Moses McPherson? Or are you referring to his wife, who went from a rebellious, leftist beast to a devoted presbytera?

It's well known that God can radically change men, so that part isn’t surprising.

What intrigues me most is whether this also proves that transformation is possible for women—like the one Fr. Moses’s wife apparently underwent. We’re often warned not to be the proverbial “Captain Save-a-Hoe,” but maybe there’s something to it. Maybe it can work. And if so, that might open up a whole new perspective for us men.

Imagine marrying a woman who’s overweight, and then she gets in shape; or someone with a short haircut who later grows it out; or a career-focused woman who eventually prioritizes her family. If transformation is possible—not just for men but for women too—that could expand our horizons dramatically.​

 

[Tippy]

Yikes—so Fr. Moses used to be a thug back in the day, and his wife also had that punk or gangster vibe.

But when you mentioned a "great transformation," what exactly did you mean? Are you saying Moses the Thug became Father Moses McPherson? Or are you referring to his wife, who went from a rebellious, leftist beast to a devoted presbytera?

It's well known that God can radically change men, so that part isn’t surprising.

What intrigues me most is whether this also proves that transformation is possible for women—like the one Fr. Moses’s wife apparently underwent. We’re often warned not to be the proverbial “Captain Save-a-Hoe,” but maybe there’s something to it. Maybe it can work. And if so, that might open up a whole new perspective for us men.

Imagine marrying a woman who’s overweight, and then she gets in shape; or someone with a short haircut who later grows it out; or a career-focused woman who eventually prioritizes her family. If transformation is possible—not just for men but for women too—that could expand our horizons dramatically.​

The sad reality is many men on this forum are obsessed with meeting a trad women but the most likely reality is they DID move to Serbia or Armenia or Romania or Russia is they would just meet that country's version of liberal/westernized woman who just appears RELATIVELY sane compared to American women HOWEVER that's mostly because she hasn't been exposed to the same forces of manipulation/brainwashing her entire life so is she really BETTER? Hard to say!

The actual holy traditional women are not gonna go for Jared on a digital nomad visa who has just arrived and had a mid 30s conversion (post mild sex addiction) to ROCCOR most likely but I might be wrong.

And the sad reality this strawman above would probably have MORE in common with a woman who has struggled or needs saving than the pure holy never been exposed to the world outside her family's front lawn woman that is often imagined to be the perfect bride for posters here (and the one they deserve apparently).

 

[Blade Runner]

The sad reality is many men on this forum are obsessed with meeting a trad women but the most likely reality is they DID move to Serbia or Armenia or Romania or Russia is they would just meet that country's version of liberal/westernized woman who just appears RELATIVELY sane compared to American women HOWEVER that's mostly because she hasn't been exposed to the same forces of manipulation/brainwashing her entire life so is she really BETTER? Hard to say!

You're addressing the generic guy who is starved out and not generally optimistic in things because of the poor state of women, lack of youth, laziness, diet and questionable families over the years. Still, the foreign woman will have much better overall respect for at least a sane culture. The western woman isn't very aware of what that even is. The older women are somewhat sane but the ship has sailed and most are not just 35, they're closer to 40-45. They think a guy around their age is going to be interested in them, lol, NO

And the sad reality this strawman above would probably have MORE in common with a woman who has struggled or needs saving than the pure holy never been exposed to the world outside her family's front lawn woman that is often imagined to be the perfect bride for posters here (and the one they deserve apparently).

It's easier in a sense for a guy like Fr. Moses to have traversed this because he didn't have a strong conviction and belief system earlier, so in this decrepit society that weirdly helped find a mate, and THEN he found the truth. It's sorta like having kids earlier and just dealing with that reality as you move forward, but at least you have kids. High risk indeed, but better than staunch orthodox in some ways with few to no options since the orthodox parents of the USA and west still just sent their daughters to university, jobs, big cities, etc.

just sayin'