cormy_cormorant
Catholic
"Gambit in Gambia" would make for a cool book title. someone should get down to work on it
The Destruction of Modern Women
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GrecoRoman
Catholic
It may be the best option for some men. I’m the type that enjoys solitude and being married may be a grating experience for me.
The way things are now on a sheer probability basis finding a compatible partner is going to be a challenge. Let’s look at the things in play.
Obesity/unattractive. A lot of women are just overweight.
Feminism / bad personality / super career oriented types. For guys on this board I doubt we can deal with these types nor would we want to. I work in a professional field and am surrounded by these types. I don’t find myself compatible with them nor do they find me compatible. Most of their husbands don’t seem masculine and they seem to marry or date guys that accept the woman wearing the pants.
Women with kids already. As you get older you will encounter many women who already have kids. It’s a no for me, but even wealthy and famous guys have done it like Joe Rogan.
If you both have kids from a previous marriage I see how it can work. Some of these types are promiscuous and desperate for partners. I had a hot Brazilian with two kids literally ask me to be her boyfriend. I didn’t go for it, but she was very attractive and still in an age range of having more kids. That’s another thing, of course many single moms can be very attractive. That’s why they have kids because men usually choose for beauty.
Women with promiscuous pasts. One of my friends said something profound. After a man sleeps with a lot of women he becomes wise like a monk. But a woman who sleeps with a lot of men 9/10 becomes totally broken. It’s a tough deal and there is a false dichotomy with guys who have been previously promiscuous only deserving a women with a promiscuous past. I find this line of thinking completely wrong. While wanting virgin bride is unrealistic for most guys over the age of 21, there’s a point when her body count is just too much. Do some guys crack by sleeping around? Sure, but most guys would totally stop that life and settle down with a 6, who is submissive with a good personality that would make a good mother. I’ve seen it first hand.
Age gap shaming. Let’s say you’re 40 and find a great woman younger than you. Most of her friends and family will be against it, having her ear and messing things up.
You also get more set in your ways. If you’re financially independent and have a full life with hobbies, imagine the big changes you need to make when you’re in a serious relationship. Habits become harder to change with time.
It is rough, but by no means impossible. The thing is in my situation it would require me making dating like a full time job and I don’t want to make that commitment.
Yes, GrecoRoman might as well be Blade Runner Jr. he's so spot on
This is one of the weirder parts about people's claims on "natural selection" and instinct in women, which shows you that the selection is far more social and mental than anything purely material/hormonal/instinctual (though you could argue the pill thing might be disrupting most). The desire for power over a man, not to be led, not submitting, etc is FAR more common nowadays. Even if it is women emboldened by taking on masculine roles and having money, it is still "going against biology" which should show us that things related to human interaction and reproduction aren't about this "best genes" idea at all.
I've always laughed and this and stated, of course women with kids are hot, that's why a guy banged them. Obviously not in every scenario but you get the point. Did she want you to be a "bf" that had to act like he cared about her kids and the costs in raising them? The dog thing came up in the reels the other day, and a woman was saying how she was surprised that having a dog is a red flag for guys. This brings up get another thing that women are so dishonest about: of course it's a red flag, because women are going to assume that because you're "status X" (boyfriend) that you should then say yes to taking care of Y or Z (read: dog same as kid in some manner, etc). They don't see it that ways because they are dumb or dishonest, but the whole thing of course is trading sex for favors. Unlike logical men, they like to just say "you like me so you'll do this" generically, but would only do that with friends of theirs with dogs, so they can trade caretaking and thus quid pro quo. I've seen it. They'd never ask some friend of theirs that didn't have a dog to sit it. Ha.
Yes, that comes up on this forum all the time and it's stupid as you state. If you're just honest about humans, you'll see that before Christians were called to a new standard, what existed before was concubines, divorce, etc. The tradeoff, then, for the sensible christian of course was monogamy and marriage, but WITH a young virgin wife. Conflating this and not understanding basic human biology and fallenness, whatever you want to call it, of man who wants to have a lot of sex is just another part of the modern dishonesty and weakness of feminization of Christianity we've seen after the mid 20th century.
Same point. I've brought it up a ton.
My biggest gripe is not that I am encouraging age gaps per se, I've always said they are the clear solution to the problem. That problem was created by not being honest with women that their value is high and best at ages 16-23. So if you or your society takes them out of that, there's going to be a price to pay, and we've seen that price. But people have chosen the "I want a material guarantee so I go for career so I have a mitigating factor of dependence on a man" and it turns out, no, life doesn't work that way. If you're a 7+ sure everything is going to work for you in general in life, but again, I only find that 7s or higher at this point are like 2% of the population, and have to be young to boot to even get that high of a rating.
Yes. When you realize that most people aren't that interesting to talk to anymore, you can't get "fooled" like they could have in your high boner and more emotional 20s, and that you'll have to pay for a lot of stuff that just doesn't make sense/consumption, you realize the only women that are very easy to deal with are quiet ones that do something for your life. It's sad, but those are very rare, and most are going to be on the uglier/fat side, sadly.
For now, hyperinflation will help with that
Millennial women were told to chase our dreams. That’s left us burnt out, broke and dreaming of a rich patron | Carolin Würfel
In creative industries, my generation of women are expected to be grateful to be there at all. That gratitude has kept us compliant – and broke, says writer Carolin Würfel
www.theguardian.com
Do they really want that tho? I make about 90-105k depending on the year. Why be career oriented over your 40-50k marketing job? We both know that’s how much these women make. I own my own home and pay my bills. I could still do that on probably 60k a year. If I funded a partners art or music career and got a house keeper so she wouldn’t have to lift a finger, I’d still be taking home 60k a year, more than enough for my bills. 35-45k a year would cover these things. I always thought my offer would appeal to women especially the creative types I’m into, no chores and I’ll help with your stuff. Plus I got a house to live in, no rent. Still more single than ever.
I’d be open to it if 1. She was open to having more, if she’s done, it wouldn’t work. If she does have kids and wants to go the have more route she has to become Orthodox. That’s a non negotiable if she already has kids. I’m willing to negotiate on religion if she’s child free.
Our founder lmao. But the difference is this. It’s difficult to sleep with a lot of women. To do so you need to be in good shape, good with kids, charismatic, successful or involved in the secretive underworld, attractive, and if that wasn’t difficult enough, since the later 10s, inappropriately tall.
I look younger than I am so idk if that’s going to be a problem. Plus the gal I wanted the trad life with who plagues me to this day is with a guy some 20 years her elder. He could pull it off somehow.
That’s the problem. To get to be able to do everything I talked about earlier, you’re not dating. You’re saving and working.
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Yes, that's because dating (what Greco called a "full time job") has become the inversion of "man do everything for woman" instead of the woman being a help mate and along for the ride to benefit from the provisions, protection and wisdom of the man. It's really quite basic from a man's point of view, something which no one will look from. He's giving up his freedom and his money for what in return? More work, energy, and an overall either more annoying or harder life than he has? Why?
GrecoRoman
Catholic
For now, hyperinflation will help with that
Millennial women were told to chase our dreams. That’s left us burnt out, broke and dreaming of a rich patron | Carolin Würfel
In creative industries, my generation of women are expected to be grateful to be there at all. That gratitude has kept us compliant – and broke, says writer Carolin Würfel
Do they really want that tho? I make about 90-105k depending on the year. Why be career oriented over your 40-50k marketing job? We both know that’s how much these women make. I own my own home and pay my bills. I could still do that on probably 60k a year. If I funded a partners art or music career and got a house keeper so she wouldn’t have to lift a finger, I’d still be taking home 60k a year, more than enough for my bills. 35-45k a year would cover these things. I always thought my offer would appeal to women especially the creative types I’m into, no chores and I’ll help with your stuff. Plus I got a house to live in, no rent. Still more single than ever.
I’m not sure on the the full psychology of these career women, but it’s based on competition like men. Like a meme above what you are offering them (being a good man, good provider) is seen as slavery to most of them. Even though it would woo most women in previous eras. Their minds have been warped.
Now there are a subset of women who value this and in certain areas that has also been inverted and warped. The women I’m talking about are whores aka women looking for a sugar daddy. Of course if she is pursuing this, her body count is probably sky high anyway. Many guys go for it and it’s completely obvious on both ends. I’d love to bring this topic up with my priest, since he like many are out of touch he’d probably be in complete shock. I wouldn’t bring it up as a way to insinuate I’d ever pursue it, but just to see what he would say.
At this point it seems guys should screen for women who grew up in a remote Siberian village with no internet until the age of 25. Or maybe one of those uncontacted tribes.
I’m joking but that’s been the pervasive nature of the culture.
I personally couldn’t even do 1. The Brazilian I mentioned was Catholic but had several other red flags. My concern would be the former husband will always be in the picture and ‘he got to her first’ I think that sets up a bad dynamic but I may be wrong.
Interesting. It would be wise to study the dynamic there considering 20 years is a big age gap. I don’t know the story as I recently signed up here, but let me put out a wild guess. Was he some type of religious teacher, maybe a deacon or something? Did he have some type of power position in the church?
The reason I ask is that I have noticed that there are some men who are snakes within the church. Guys pursuing pastoral or religious teacher roles to gain institutional power and using it as a way to get dates. Some Protestant pastors are the worst.
GrecoRoman
Catholic
Yes, GrecoRoman might as well be Blade Runner Jr. he's so spot on
This is one of the weirder parts about people's claims on "natural selection" and instinct in women, which shows you that the selection is far more social and mental than anything purely material/hormonal/instinctual (though you could argue the pill thing might be disrupting most). The desire for power over a man, not to be led, not submitting, etc is FAR more common nowadays.
I think their brains have been changed by nonstop feminist propaganda. They’ve been bombarded with it since birth and also surrounded by mostly weak men, so they tend to think they have to ‘step up.’ Then if they are allowed to, and they mostly are because they are supported by teachers, professors, and all of society, they get addicted to power. This also partially explains their derangement over Christianity which is more about strength in weakness.
The dog thing is funny because if you look deeper it’s a transmutation of the desire to be a mother. But for whatever reason, due to their own psychoses, being too picky, a high body count, or societal conditioning, they have no kids. But they need to take care of something and that’s usually a pet. The reason I believe it’s some type of transmutation of the motherly urge is because if some of these women actually have kids, the pets immediately take a backseat to the child. Sometimes even to the point of becoming antagonistic towards the animal or getting rid of it completely.
What we are seeing now is the results of there not being enough good women around. The results are massive societal decay, as men become despondent and therefore society begins to fall apart. It can be a very dark pill to swallow if you think about it too much. I believe this is partly why men commit suicide and become addicted to drugs as well. God’s plan is not clear for many of these men and it may be monasticism or at the very least some type of religious life.
Not that we're ever going to have a utopia - of course we won't - but the randomness and absurdity of being born into a time period where all of this social and womanly decay makes it harder to understand or accept for most. I think for the believer it's that you know it's natural to "be fruitful and multiply" but you realize that this has been co-opted by plans of the evil ones or the willing participation in selfishness, and it's something that didn't start but a few generations ago.
For me, being successful and having traits that I thought would easily lend to the standard married life, it's just been more of a silly thing that doesn't make sense or is frustrating. You realize though that it takes two to tango and if you don't get many shots at any sort of decent partner, or are unsure about a couple, it can easily end up not happening. Women, on the other hand, will have literally thousands of options and throw most of them away, or not even recognize half as even being humans - sorta funny and absurd when you think about it, as well.
All in all, I think God's plan is clear but transiently, or time to time, it's hard to accept. But you can think of it in different terms, such as the recognition that many men over the last 40 years have been in "marriages" that were closer to hellscape, that no man with freedom would ever wish for, or envy. It can always be worse and we'd be well served to remember that occasionally. It hurts to know that your line or DNA, good traits, etc might not be passed on, but it is also true that none of us chose any of this in the first place and it's not really "ours" either. If you combine that with the realization that we're all gone in the long run in the material world, you'll see that indeed, really only the eternal things matter. But that is a type of ego death that is hard, yet we are called to it.
It’s usually a bad idea for a child-free person to marry a single parent. Not only are there many statistics about this (that match reality), but some things to consider:
-you may have to spend holidays or major milestones with their ex’s family/ex
-any children you have together will obviously be siblings with the original kids— for better or for worse
-time sharing that starts off as 50/50 can become 100% if the other parent is a nutjob and loses custody or doesn’t want to be around anymore. Some people can’t handle that…
-most times you cannot freely move away when there are custody arrangements, so if your job asks you to relocate or you want to move to be closer to family, you can’t
-depending on your personality and how compatible you are with someone else’s kids, it can range from ok to not feeling at peace at home, like living with strangers
-the reality that your wife has a past with someone else, very hard for some to get over. Are you ok with their old family pictures hanging on the wall? What about maternity/birth photos when they were still together? Are you ok with having step kids in all your family photos? Be honest with yourself.
-pregnancy is obviously a lot more wear & tear on a woman’s body; is she ok with having more children, or as many as you’d like?
-inheritance issues
Marriage and family life is challenging enough as it is the traditional way, adding this element creates a lot of fights/instability/dynamics that make things 10x harder. At least 2 single parents can understand each other, will have to deal with each others ex drama, and have an understanding between them. But coming in as a child-free man is a different dynamic. If the right blend of factors is there it might work, but you’re kind of banking on being the exception. Just my opinion.
Lastly, despite many women’s claims that their ex was “so terrible”, if they had more than 1 kid, it’s like, c’mon. He wasn’t that bad, was he? That’s a pretty deep bond to have with someone else. It’s always going to be there. That person knows your wife better than you do, at least for several years! I have known several divorced women in their 60s+ still pining after their original husband/whatever during their children’s wedding!! And yes they remarried….
Or here is another all too common scenario: you and your wife want to homeschool your kids, but the ex is against it and the stepkids go to public school. Perhaps they are also allowed phones at a young age, media/content that you don’t agree with, etc. If this affects their behavior, especially around your biological children, how are you going to react? What would you do? Are you prepared to handle these type of disagreements, especially when your own biological children are involved?
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I'm going to use as an example a single friend who's fairly similar to the former single me.
She runs her own business. It's a very cool business that provides a wonderful humanitarian service that people are willing to pay good money for, and she worked very hard to get it where it is. She's very creative and does creative work on the side.
She's had many options similar to what you described, offers from men making plenty of money to retire her so she can do whatever she likes and be with him.
So far, she hasn't been very interested. She can attract men she's very into who don't offer all that, and men who offer all that but she's not very into. These guys aren't unattractive. I think she just has a very idealized view of what "The One" should be. And I think there are a lot of women like her out there.
Where she and a lot of women differ from me is they're not religious or interested in becoming religious. So life is all about happiness, feels, "self love", traveling, fun, vibes, happy accidents, the moment, etc., etc.
Anyway, you don't want that kind of woman, because without faith in God and a solid acceptance of the sacrifices marriage requires... it doesn't have a solid foundation.
Do you attend church? Are you praying simply and clearly about what you need? I think those things will get you further toward finding a wife than anything.
That's all true. I think many women could better see through the propaganda if strong, competent men approached with a clear, appealing offer.
In my own experience, before I got married, I was in a solid position work-wise, making a very good income doing meaningful work at a wonderful humanitarian organization. I worked my butt off to get there.
Why did I do that? Because I concluded I had to. Most men who were interested in me were weak - brainwashed by feminism themselves, vague about a future plan, clearly impressed by me having my own income and not clear on any plan to provide so I wouldn't have to do that.
The strong, purposeful, accomplished men with a solid plan that approached me - well, I just got the strong impression these types weren't likely to be loyal in the long run and I knew I could never be at peace with that, so I chose not to go down that road.
Finally, my husband approached me. He was strong, purposeful, accomplished, with a crystal clear plan of a bright future for us. He's also empathetic, kind, and sensitive, and I got the strong impression he could never be disloyal. Neither of us is perfect, but we're both trying to purify ourselves in the church and become better people and spouses, and we've both made progress.
There are still good single men and women out there. They're not perfect. We've all been damaged one way or another by this toxic sludge we're swimming in. But some people know there's a better way and are open to seeking it and living it out. You only need to meet that ONE person. Then all the other lost people don't matter that much anymore.
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The problem is that young women these days are very deluded and think they can land a top 1% man and by the time they realize its not going to happen they are already in their mid 30s and won't have any value to a somewhat accomplished guy like you.
The problem with your friend is that like most women she is delusional. Firstly based on your description she sounds like a 30 something girl boss career/business woman. That generally excludes from consideration of the top tier men she is seeking that tick all of the boxes. Why would they marry her when they can marry a cute 20 something submissive woman who is not a girl boss? Then the guys that are actually interested in her are generally going to be good looking but lacking in others (broke, etc) or be financially doing well but not be the most handsome or charismatic etc. She needs to compromise somewhere. Top tier men don't a 30 year old independent girl boss.
This doesn't really address the issue. Sure praying might help a little but the main driver is taking strong action. For women they just passively wait around for men to approach them but as men we must make the approaches so praying and sitting around waiting to miraculously meet the right woman is not a sound strategy. And going to church in the west doesn't really help young men either as the ratio of single young women is very low compared to the number of single young men in church. As me and plenty of others guys on the forum have said before the most important action to take to find the right woman (by an order of magnitude) is going overseas. You need to fish where the fish are. In fact I would say as a man living in the west going overseas is so important in terms of finding a wife that being in the right country and city, etc is like 80% and all other factors combined make up the other 20%.
Western men are the most passive because the western feminazi system has beaten them down for so long that their spirit is totally crushed. Western men mostly have very low expectations from women and are just grateful when a woman isn't spitting in their face.
GrecoRoman
Catholic
Church, prayer, regular communion, and being part of the community helps. It takes time, but there are many benefits to this. The ratio thing is true and in recent years there has been an influx of mostly men. Priests are also way out of touch. I agree with you there.
There is a hidden aspect. I hear things from guys that church is mostly older women. But these older women are aunts, mothers, and grandmothers. They want a good man for their daughters and relatives and if they are regularly going to church they are at least trying. Being Catholic I’ve seen mass hypocrisy first hand, but you have to ignore it. There are the two-faced types, show a good face in church but they can be miserable human beings. You will never know unless you get to know them.
From personal experience one of the most peaceful times in my life has been in retreat at a Benedictine monastery. I went to mass 4 or 5 times a day, prayed, and just relaxed. In a bizarre twist I was chatting with a Catholic woman during that the time. It didn’t work out because although she stated that faith was very important, her father thought I was ‘too Catholic and religious’ or some nonsense. But none of that mattered during the time because I was at peace. It may be a clear signal that some type of monasticism may be my path.
There’s another aspect. For many guys here it is likely that they went through a hook up phase and were left dissatisfied. Maybe in a religious role, you can guide the younger generations to avoid and learn from your mistakes. Maybe it won’t work out to an eventual marriage but you will be guiding and helping people and it can be very satisfying.
This takes the ‘ego death’ that Blade Runner alluded to and can be a tough pill to swallow. But God is about the totality of everything and not ego. On a grand scale it is as if you sacrifice yourself but maybe just maybe you help foster 50 successful marriages. In the grand scheme of things that is very noble act and what can be better than that.
THIS. Some men here complain endlessly about how it's so hard these days. Yeah, in some ways. But these men probably never got drafted into a war like some of their ancestors. They probably never went through a serious depression where they could barely afford to eat and had to beg for a job that paid next to nothing like some of their grandfathers and great-grandfathers. They probably never worked 80+ hours in a grueling manual labor job like my dad did for years. Every era presents different challenges. It's our job to purify and fortify ourselves so we can face any challenge in any era with faith and love.
This, too. Not only do they have daughters, granddaughters, and nieces - they have networks of the best people. If they meet a man who impresses them, they're absolutely going to consider all the marriageable women they know that they might be able to introduce. Elder women in good churches are exceedingly wise, loving, intuitive, and helpful in all kinds of ways. They proactively seek out ways to uplift people and make their lives better and bring them closer to God.