The China Thread

[Australia Sucks]

Based on the interaction above about tourism in China, you don't seem that neutral either. You were wrong on these issues, stating there were no direct flights from the West to China, and that their international tourism industry has collapsed, which is not true.

There are probably some negative things about China, but almost all of the criticism you read on here and in the media is straight up propaganda.

The propaganda money in the West is 99.9% anti-Chinese, to the tune of $1.6 billion per year from the US govt alone (officially), and that's not even counting the billions in NGOs and other sources.

You know in China they have a license plate lottery to control how many cars are on the road. This is the solution to limit traffic congestion and pollution. Does this sound like the type of country you would like to live in?

What happens to peoples social media accounts in China if they post anything about Tienanmen Square? Although the west has pretty much the same censorship system (obviously regarding different topics like the Jews, etc) these days so I cannot say we are better in that regard.

 

[Cooper]

You know in China they have a license plate lottery to control how many cars are on the road. This is the solution to limit traffic congestion and pollution. Does this sound like the type of country you would like to live in?

What happens to peoples social media accounts in China if they post anything about Tienanmen Square? Although the west has pretty much the same censorship system (obviously regarding different topics like the Jews, etc) these days so I cannot say we are better in that regard.

China is the same size as Australia but with over 50 times the population, and about 40 cities larger than Sydney, and maybe 20 larger than NYC. They also have a very different history and culture from frontier anglo countries like the US, Canada or Oz.

Tienanmen Square was a kind of liberal color revolution not unlike Maidan Square in 2014 Ukraine or May 1968 in France, it was organized by western NGOs including USAID and people like Gene Sharp, the father of color revolution psyops.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/12/30/gene-sharp-obituary-academic-nonviolent-revolution-223555/

How psy-ops warriors fooled me about Tiananmen Square: a warning - Pearls and Irritations

No one died in Tainanmen Square journalists and diplomats who were present, academic specialists in “human rights” agree.

johnmenadue.com

 

[Australia Sucks]

Tienanmen Square was a kind of liberal color revolution not unlike Maidan Square in 2014 Ukraine or May 1968 in France, it was organized by western NGOs including USAID and people like Gene Sharp, the father of color revolution psyops.

That may well be true but that's not a reason to stop people discussing it. People in the U.S.A. can still discuss that black lives matters was George Soros funded without getting their accounts shut down.

 

[Cooper]

That may well be true but that's not a reason to stop people discussing it. People in the U.S.A. can still discuss that black lives matters was George Soros funded without getting their accounts shut down.

Try posting about more sensitive ((subjects)) on social media.

 

[Australia Sucks]

Try posting about more sensitive ((subjects)) on social media.

Although the west has pretty much the same censorship system (obviously regarding different topics like the Jews, etc) these days so I cannot say we are better in that regard.

I already addressed that previously as I knew you would make this argument. I preemptively already conceded the point.

 

[Australia Sucks]

Chinese leaders are very competent and plan way ahead, they have 5,10, 25 year plans that have, to date, all exceeded goals set.

Of course they exceed there goals because they do it via fraud that is the way communists have always done things. Eventually the house of cards will come tumbling down. Easy to meet GDP numbers if you keep building ghost cities and bullet trains to small cities which are always 80% empty. Their quality of GDP is horrendous.

Its like when inflation is too high you have two options to lower the inflation figure. One is to actually lower inflation. The second way is to just change the methodology by which inflation is calculated. The new methodology just conveniently happens to produce a lower number by coincidence of course. Many governments choose option 2 instead of option 1. China however takes this art form to a whole new level.

 

[expectation]

Of course they exceed there goals because they do it via fraud that is the way communists have always done things. Eventually the house of cards will come tumbling down. Easy to meet GDP numbers if you keep building ghost cities and bullet trains to small cities which are always 80% empty. Their quality of GDP is horrendous.

Its like when inflation is too high you have two options to lower the inflation figure. One is to actually lower inflation. The second way is to just change the methodology by which inflation is calculated. The new methodology just conveniently happens to produce a lower number by coincidence of course. Many governments choose option 2 instead of option 1. China however takes this art form to a whole new level.

Think you're reading slop my friend. Those "Ghost cities" are being / have been filled out.

 

[Samseau]

You know in China they have a license plate lottery to control how many cars are on the road. This is the solution to limit traffic congestion and pollution. Does this sound like the type of country you would like to live in?

They also have the best public transportation system in the world. So why does the license plate lottery matter?

 

[Australia Sucks]

Think you're reading slop my friend. Those "Ghost cities" are being / have been filled out.

Did you even watch the video you posted? That city seems pretty empty. They spent $150 billion dollars to build it in 2011 and it looks like the city is only maybe 10% full. So at this rate the city might get full by the year 2130?

That looks like a ghost city to me. It also had hideous communist style (albeit modern) architecture and felt very dull and depressing. Not sure why anybody would choose to live in that city. Even the guy in the video clip towards the end basically said it was a ghost city. You proved my point exactly.

Also notice how he had to give his mobile number, etc just to buy green tea from the self driving cart. In China the government needs to know every single that you do.

Also I don't know how any of the businesses in Ordos actually make money. They all seemed to have minimal customers as the general foot traffic was very low. They must be getting subsidies from the Chinese government.

 

[RedLagoon]

Did you even watch the video you posted? That city seems pretty empty. They spent $150 billion dollars to build it in 2011 and it looks like the city is only maybe 10% full. So at this rate the city might get full by the year 2130?

That looks like a ghost city to me. It also had hideous communist style (albeit modern) architecture and felt very dull and depressing. Not sure why anybody would choose to live in that city. Even the guy in the video clip towards the end basically said it was a ghost city. You proved my point exactly.

Also notice how he had to give his mobile number, etc just to buy green tea from the self driving cart. In China the government needs to know every single that you do.

Also I don't know how any of the businesses in Ordos actually make money. They all seemed to have minimal customers as the general foot traffic was very low. They must be getting subsidies from the Chinese government.

He actually started the video with that conclusion. At least he can walk around the place without being mugged or stabbed. The racist thing is funny btw, they're chinamen after all.

You really think your sucky government doesn't spy on you?

 

[Australia Sucks]

You really think your sucky government doesn't spy on you?

Every government spies on its citizens to some extent but the Chinese level of spying is far more intense than most countries.

 

[Cooper]

Of course they exceed there goals because they do it via fraud that is the way communists have always done things. Eventually the house of cards will come tumbling down. Easy to meet GDP numbers if you keep building ghost cities and bullet trains to small cities which are always 80% empty. Their quality of GDP is horrendous.

Its like when inflation is too high you have two options to lower the inflation figure. One is to actually lower inflation. The second way is to just change the methodology by which inflation is calculated. The new methodology just conveniently happens to produce a lower number by coincidence of course. Many governments choose option 2 instead of option 1. China however takes this art form to a whole new level.

The Chinese economy has been built on solid ground, they produce stuff, they have about one third of global manufacturing, and that share is still rising, so it's about as real as it gets, compared to the overfinancialized late stage capitalism US economy. As an example, 18% of the US GDP is in healthcare, due to the inflated costs. vs 7% in China.

The Chinese GDP is in fact pretty undervalued, due to the fact that their currency is undervalued because they favor exports, raking in around $1 trillion in trade surplus every year.

The ghost city thing is overblown, they have had many such places in the past that end up getting filled once industry and transport come in. There are no encampment cities and massive homeless populations in China, and their cities are clean and well-maintained, on the same level as Switzerland and far better than in the US, UK, Canada etc.

Every government spies on its citizens to some extent but the Chinese level of spying is far more intense than most countries.

The UK has more surveillance cameras per capita than China, and the NSA budget dwarfs that of its Chinese equivalent. Every call and financial transaction you make is recorded.

 

[Caduceus]

.... and their cities are clean and well-maintained, on the same level as Switzerland....

I have been to both countries (China & Switzerland) several times, and this is just false.

Just as 1 example of many, several Chinese cities flood after heavy rainfall on regular occasions, with thousands of dead each year due to inadequate drainage under cities. Many die in either in metro trains and stations, or in cars with are in flooded tunnels.

 

[Cooper]

I have been to both countries (China & Switzerland) several times, and this is just false.

Just as 1 example of many, several Chinese cities flood after heavy rainfall on regular occasions, with thousands of dead each year due to inadequate drainage under cities. Many die in either in metro trains and stations, or in cars with are in flooded tunnels.

And there are no floods in Switzerland? What kind of argument is this?

Switzerland – FloodList

floodlist.com

China's population is almost 200 times bigger than Switzerland, there are about 100 Chinese cities bigger than the biggest Swiss city, Zurich.

My point here is that Chinese cities today are cleaner and safer than US, UK, Canadian, French, Spanish. Even Switzerland is not immune from urban issues, Zurich for instance is notorious for its heroin addicts, and other cities like Bern, Lausanne and Genève also have dealers and addicts, and cocaine is being legalized there, so in that sense it turns out China is better than Switzerland.

 

[Caduceus]

And there are no floods in Switzerland? What kind of argument is this?

Your comparisons are crazy.
No major city in Switzerland (Zurich, Basel, Geneva, etc) has flooded which resulted in any deaths.
A few people (less than 10 I think) died in villages in rural areas near mountains because of landslides and flooding.
Dozens of major cities in China flood every year and there's always thousands of deaths because of piss poor drainage facilities.

Also, from what I know, the drug addicts in Switzerland only kill themselves, and not anyone around them, while in China crazy Chinese maniacs go into schools and kill dozens of small schoolchildren under the age of 10.
Look at how many hundreds of schoolchildren in China have been killed by maniacs killing little kids over the last 30 years:

List of school attacks in China - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Cooper]

Your comparisons are crazy.
No major city in Switzerland (Zurich, Basel, Geneva, etc) has flooded which resulted in any deaths.
A few people (less than 10 I think) died in villages in rural areas near mountains because of landslides and flooding.
Dozens of major cities in China flood every year and there's always thousands of deaths because of piss poor drainage facilities.

10 deaths from floods in Switzerland (pop. 8M) is the equivalent of 1,800 in China (pop. 1,400M). Here are the stats for China:

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Flood-fatalities-a-and-flood-losses-b-in-China-from-1990-2017_fig2_330203732

Notice that the trend is going downwards sharply, because the Chinese have been building literally tens of thousands of dams in the last few decades. In fact the majority of dams being built in the world were built in China. Funnily enough, they have been dismantling dams in the EU for dubious reasons, which resulted in the worst floods in ages and hundreds of deaths in Valencia, Spain.

Also, from what I know, the drug addicts in Switzerland only kill themselves, and not anyone around them, while in China crazy Chinese maniacs go into schools and kill dozens of small schoolchildren under the age of 10.
Look at how many hundreds of schoolchildren in China have been killed by maniacs killing little kids over the last 30 years:

List of school attacks in China - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Thefts, break-ins and other crimes including violent crimes are associated with hard drug use, which has been part of the urban landscape in Zurich for decades. It gets worse from there, as crack cocaine is now spiking in Switzerland:

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/swiss-abroad/crack-cocaine-crisis-escalates-in-switzerland/87755352

Schoolchildren murder rates in China are orders of magnitude lower than in the US, and lower than in Canada, UK, Germany etc. on a per capita basis. Your arguments are unsubstantiated and don't withstand rational scrutiny.

 

[Caduceus]

10 deaths from floods in Switzerland (pop. 8M) is the equivalent of 1,800 in China (pop. 1,400M). Here are the stats for China:

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Flood-fatalities-a-and-flood-losses-b-in-China-from-1990-2017_fig2_330203732

Notice that the trend is going downwards sharply, because the Chinese have been building literally tens of thousands of dams in the last few decades. In fact the majority of dams being built in the world were built in China. Funnily enough, they have been dismantling dams in the EU for dubious reasons, which resulted in the worst floods in ages and hundreds of deaths in Valencia, Spain.



Thefts, break-ins and other crimes including violent crimes are associated with hard drug use, which has been part of the urban landscape in Zurich for decades. It gets worse from there, as crack cocaine is now spiking in Switzerland:

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/swiss-abroad/crack-cocaine-crisis-escalates-in-switzerland/87755352

Schoolchildren murder rates in China are orders of magnitude lower than in the US, and lower than in Canada, UK, Germany etc. on a per capita basis. Your arguments are unsubstantiated and don't withstand rational scrutiny.

No, these comparisons are all BS.

Switzerland has 10 deaths from flooding in rural areas once every 10 years, not once every year.
China on the other hand has thousands dying from flooding EVERY YEAR.

Building more damns in China will not solve the flooding problem.
The main problem in many Chinese cities is water DRAINAGE (gutters, sewers, canals, etc) which cannot cope with more than 1 day of continuous heavy rain. The excess water on the streets simply has nowhere to go.

Canada, the UK, Germany all have a tiny proportion of schoolchildren being killed per year (even if we are counting on a per capita basis). The only country that has as many schoolchildren being killed by psychos as China, is the USA, and even then 90% of deaths are with guns. In China psychos like to kill kids with knives and cars.

China gets a lot of things right compared to Globohomo, (extensive and cheap public transport, education, traditional gender roles, family values, social cohesion) but it also gets a hell of lot wrong (no cash transactions, no alternative political parties, poor quality workmanship, no clean drinking water, large income inequalities that fuel resentment and violence, etc).

How can anyone take you seriously if you keep butt kissing everything China says and does ?

 

[Cooper]

No, these comparisons are all BS.

Switzerland has 10 deaths from flooding in rural areas once every 10 years, not once every year.
China on the other hand has thousands dying from flooding EVERY YEAR.

Building more damns in China will not solve the flooding problem.
The main problem in many Chinese cities is water DRAINAGE (gutters, sewers, canals, etc) which cannot cope with more than 1 day of continuous heavy rain. The excess water on the streets simply has nowhere to go.

Canada, the UK, Germany all have a tiny proportion of schoolchildren being killed per year (even if we are counting on a per capita basis). The only country that has as many schoolchildren being killed by psychos as China, is the USA, and even then 90% of deaths are with guns. In China psychos like to kill kids with knives and cars.

China gets a lot of things right compared to Globohomo, (extensive and cheap public transport, education, traditional gender roles, family values, social cohesion) but it also gets a hell of lot wrong (no cash transactions, no alternative political parties, poor quality workmanship, no clean drinking water, large income inequalities that fuel resentment and violence, etc).

How can anyone take you seriously if you keep butt kissing everything China says and does ?

Your stats and thesis is what is not serious at all here.

The link you have provided about school stabbings and school homicides in China shows about 65 incidents in 35 years, in a country with 498,000 schools!

The US has had 288 school shootings in just 10 years!! The US has 115,000 schools, less than a quarter China's number.

School Shootings by Country 2024

worldpopulationreview.com

These numbers translate into the US having 56 times as many homicide events per school than China!

Do you see how ridiculous your whole argument is here?

 

[Caduceus]

Your stats and thesis is what is not serious at all here.

The link you have provided about school stabbings and school homicides in China shows about 65 incidents in 35 years, in a country with 498,000 schools!

The wikipedia list of school killings in China which I posted begins in 1995, which is 30 years ago, not 35.
Also, to make a proper comparison between China and the USA you need to also count the total number of dead, not just the number of incidents.

 

[Cooper]

The wikipedia list of school killings in China which I posted begins in 1995, which is 30 years ago, not 35.
Also, to make a proper comparison between China and the USA you need to also count the total number of dead, not just the number of incidents.

The Wiki heading says "1990s" with the first entry being from 1995, so the starting year is probably before 95. In any case, even if you start at 1995 that is at most a delta of 15%, that translates into the US having 48 times as many school killings as China instead of 56...

You're not arguing in good faith here. The notion that there is more violence and killings in Chinese schools than in the US is completely absurd, and I've clearly shown that your theory holds no water.