The China Thread

[Cooper]

These other official sources contradict yours

China sees more foreign visitors, but far fewer than before COVID

While China has extended visa-free entry to 12 European countries, industry experts say new measures are unlikely to drive travel recovery

www.voanews.com

Domestic tourism soars in China but foreigners stay away

Foreign visitor numbers are sharply down amid concerns about the political environment.

www.bbc.com

https://www.reuters.com/world/china/china-strives-lure-foreign-tourists-its-hard-sell-some-2024-07-17/

The difference is that your sources are out of date, as the tourist surge is fairly recent, and they are heavily biased against China (Voice of America, BBC). BBC goes as far as using grey color filters in its video coverage of China to portray that country as a drab dystopia, while they cover up their domestic decline.




The most visited countries in 2024 are:

• 
  France
  The most visited country in 2024, with 89.4 million international tourist arrivals. France is popular for its museums, historical sites, gastronomy, and Paris.
• 
  Spain
  The second most visited country in 2024, with 83.7 million international tourist arrivals.
• 
  United States
  The third most visited country in 2024, with 79.3 million international tourist arrivals. The United States is known for its iconic cities and diverse landscapes.
• 
  China
  The fourth most visited country in 2024, with 65.7 million international tourist arrivals.
• 
  Italy
  The fifth most visited country in 2024, with 64.5 million international tourist arrivals.
• 
  Türkiye
  The sixth most visited country in 2024, with 51.2 million international tourist arrivals.
• 
  Mexico
  The seventh most visited country in 2024, with 45 million international tourist arrivals.
• 
  Thailand
  The eighth most visited country in 2024, with 39.8 million international tourist arrivals.
• 
  Germany
  The ninth most visited country in 2024, with 39.6 million international tourist arrivals. Germany is known for its historical monuments, picturesque landscapes, and Oktoberfest.
• 
  United Kingdom
  The tenth most visited country in 2024, with 39.4 million international tourist arrivals.

 

[TruckDriver9]

^
Not sure if mass tourism should count as an achievement. I've seen first hand (and regretfully participated when younger) what a western tourist invasion can do to a place.

 

[Cooper]

^
Not sure if mass tourism should count as an achievement. I've seen first hand (and regretfully participated when younger) what a western tourist invasion can do to a place.

For China though, the number of domestic tourists dwarfs that of foreigners, you're talking about 200-300 million locals vs 60 million foreigners. This is also facilitated by their high speed rail network.

 

[Caduceus]

The difference is that your sources are out of date, as the tourist surge is fairly recent, and they are heavily biased against China (Voice of America, BBC). BBC goes as far as using grey color filters in its video coverage of China to portray that country as a drab dystopia, while they cover up their domestic decline.

My sources are all from the last 6 months, so they are not out of date.
I know that the BBC isn't unbiased that is why I put 2 other sources to back it up.
The problems is that your sources are all funded or controlled by the Chinese government and therefore cannot be trusted
.
Most major western airlines have cancelled all their direct flight routes to China, so how are these western tourists getting there ??
The Japanese and Koreans mostly avoid visiting China unless it's for business, so they can't be making up the missing difference.
Something just doesn't add up.

 

[Cooper]

My sources are all from the last 6 months, so they are not out of date.
I know that the BBC isn't unbiased that is why I put 2 other sources to back it up.
The problems is that your sources are all funded or controlled by the Chinese government and therefore cannot be trusted
.
Most major western airlines have cancelled all their direct flight routes to China, so how are these western tourists getting there ??
The Japanese and Koreans mostly avoid visiting China unless it's for business, so they can't be making up the missing difference.
Something just doesn't add up.

Your sources are out of date because they all predate the visa-free law which came into action in October. Traffic to China has nearly doubled from 2023 to 2024, so the sources from mid-24 were looking at traffic before the new law, mostly from the previous year.

You can fly direct to China from all major European airports (London, Paris, Frankfurt), just not on western airlines because they cannot fly over Russia, which would be the shortest path (about 12 hrs flight time). It looks like some airlines like Lufthansa have made deals with Chinese airlines where they jointly operate that route, so you can book on Lufthansa and fly to China direct from Germany on Air China.

https://www.britishairways.com/content/flights/china

 

[Caduceus]

Your sources are out of date because they all predate the visa-free law which came into action in October. Traffic to China has nearly doubled from 2023 to 2024, so the sources from mid-24 were looking at traffic before the new law, mostly from the previous year.

You can fly direct to China from all major European airports (London, Paris, Frankfurt), just not on western airlines because they cannot fly over Russia, which would be the shortest path (about 12 hrs flight time). It looks like some airlines like Lufthansa have made deals with Chinese airlines where they jointly operate that route, so you can book on Lufthansa and fly to China direct from Germany on Air China.

https://www.britishairways.com/content/flights/china

Yes, I'm aware of this, but Chinese airplanes alone cannot be bringing all those foreign tourists they claim to China, even if theoretically they go back and forth full each day with all seats sold, and with 90% foreigners on each plane. It's more like 10% to 30% of foreigners on each plane, and even then these airplanes are often not full as Chinese all need visas to visit the west. (I have a friend who works in the airline industry and sees this first hand every day).

Before 2020, when you had every major western airline offering direct flights to China, those tourist numbers could be reached, but today the remaining Chinese airlines flying these direct routes cannot possibly be carrying all these foreigners to China.

 

[TruckDriver9]

For China though, the number of domestic tourists dwarfs that of foreigners, you're talking about 200-300 million locals vs 60 million foreigners. This is also facilitated by their high speed rail network.

And how is it working out for Japan ? They also have a large number of domestic tourists which dwarfs the number of foreign guests, yet they're already experiencing issues with low quality foreigners. Not to mention the regular consequences of mass tourism such as growing rents.

 

[expectation]

And how is it working out for Japan ? They also have a large number of domestic tourists which dwarfs the number of foreign guests, yet they're already experiencing issues with low quality foreigners. Not to mention the regular consequences of mass tourism such as growing rents.

So, Bali is a good example to what I think you're alluding to. Its not also just tourism but also the ease of requirement or enforcement of visa/immigration and how well their infrastructure can handle foreigners. I know that Bali wants to attract digital nomads as well.

This is a IG Account of a Bali Community. If you skim through their posts, there'll be a lot of examples where tourism has impacted their communities in a negative way. From bad behaviors, locals looking to rob foreigners, traffic, etc



China on the other hand still provides a lot of hurdles for tourists to mingle in with the locals culturally, technologically, and legally. Observing Comparing my visit to Guilin and Bali was completely night and day whereas Guilin attracted educated tourists with families that did their homework on China - while with Bali you had a wide range of seedy characters.

I had visited Japan just the past month. I could tell the locals are starting to get overwhelmed by the volume of tourists but I don't think its impacted the daily life anywhere near as much as Bali. In my opinion, social media has slightly exaggerates this challenge they are dealing with. There's still some cultural gatekeeping against English outside of tourism area.

 

[Cooper]

And how is it working out for Japan ? They also have a large number of domestic tourists which dwarfs the number of foreign guests, yet they're already experiencing issues with low quality foreigners. Not to mention the regular consequences of mass tourism such as growing rents.

I think the Chinese are more like the Koreans here, who don't tolerate foreigners misbehaving, than the more patient and polite Japanese.

Tokyo rents have gone up apparently, but are still very reasonable for a major world class city, these rents look like those from 30 years ago in LA:


this 2 story apartment with a private yard in Tokyo rents for $585/month:

 

[Cooper]

So, Bali is a good example to what I think you're alluding to. Its not also just tourism but also the ease of requirement or enforcement of visa/immigration and how well their infrastructure can handle foreigners. I know that Bali wants to attract digital nomads as well.

This is a IG Account of a Bali Community. If you skim through their posts, there'll be a lot of examples where tourism has impacted their communities in a negative way. From bad behaviors, locals looking to rob foreigners, traffic, etc



China on the other hand still provides a lot of hurdles for tourists to mingle in with the locals culturally, technologically, and legally. Observing Comparing my visit to Guilin and Bali was completely night and day whereas Guilin attracted educated tourists with families that did their homework on China - while with Bali you had a wide range of seedy characters.

I had visited Japan just the past month. I could tell the locals are starting to get overwhelmed by the volume of tourists but I don't think its impacted the daily life anywhere near as much as Bali. In my opinion, social media has slightly exaggerates this challenge they are dealing with. There's still some cultural gatekeeping against English outside of tourism area.

Bali is an extreme case, the textbook example of tourism gone wrong. To a lesser extent that is also true in the Spanish and Greek islands (Ibiza, Tenerife, Santorini, Rhodes...), and of cities like Lisbon and Barcelona where local and young families have been priced out by foreigners moving in and AirBnB short term rentals.

 

[Cooper]

Without mind-numbing sensationalist dribble, if anyone wants to know what a cozy relationship China has with israel, the Chinese embassy in israel sends a delegation every year to the grave of Jakob Rosenfeld one of the jewish Bolshevik agents sent to "guide" the Chinese communist revolution.

Here's the Chinese militaries own website, with a dose of holohoax propaganda at the end of the article:

View attachment 17625

View attachment 17626

"With China’s expansion on the global stage and with greater ties with Israel, in particular, one can expect to hear more in English language media about these forgotten jews of China in the future.

“Dr. Rosenfeld is an outstanding example of our international friends,” says Chinese Ambassador Zhan. “He is a great doctor that saved many lives in China and a fearless soldier who devoted his life to the fighting of fascism.”

http://eng.chinamil.com.cn/CHINA_209163/TopStories_209189/9587512.html

Oy vey so much jew-pandering.

China reveres to this day Canadian doctor Norman Bethune, a Canadian communist doctor who volunteered in Mao's army as a medic, he is arguably the most revered foreign figure in China with dozens of memorials, schools and hospitals named after him.

Norman Bethune - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

There are many events in China commemorating Bethune, but this doesn't mean China is chummy with Canada, in fact the relation is the worst it has been since the Korean War.

 

[Cooper]

China's dire demographic situation represented in one picture. Total number of births in 2024 was 9 540 000. Births per 1000 was 6.77 and the TFR stands at 1.10.

View attachment 17630

Per comparison, when the CCP abandoned the One Child Policy in 2015 to boost births 16 550 000 live births were counted, and the TFR was 1.54.

The steep drop in TFR is global with South Korea leading the world in its demographic death spiral. East Asia in general is a demographic black hole. South East Asian and Latin American countries are fast approaching the same <1 TFR - countries like Thailand and Chile are already below that threshold. Many countries in Europe are moving - albeit at a slower pace, towards that marker too.

China's newborns rise in 2024, first time in years

China reported rises in both newborns and the birth rate in 2024 after seven consecutive years of decline, buoyed by a baby boom in post-COVID Year of the Dragon and a slew of birth-friendly policies.

english.www.gov.cn

China's government wants to reduce their population down to about 1 billion, from 1.4 billion, and that's probably where they will be by the end of the century. The projections of 400 million or less are not likely, they don't want their population to be that low.

China has a lot more leverage over their demography than the westernized, highly financialized economies of Japan, S Korea and Taiwan, where demographic collapse is due to economic and socio-cultural factors (feminism and work culture), though I think the Japanese authorities like the CPC don't mind their population dropping down 20% or 30%, Japan being overcrowded.

In comparison with Taiwan or S Korea, China creates favorable conditions for family formation, with very high home ownership rates and lower housing costs as a state policy, subsidized transport, dirt cheap or free education and healthcare, and low taxes.

 

[LaAguilaNegra]

China revers to this day Canadian doctor Norman Bethune, a Canadian communist doctor who volunteered in Mao's army as a medic, he is arguably the most revered foreign figure in China with dozens of memorials, schools and hospitals named after him.

Norman Bethune - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

There are many events in China commemorating Bethune, but this doesn't mean China is chummy with Canada, in fact the relation is the worst it has been since the Korean War.

China also venerates a certain Mordechai Levy from Trier - whose ideological footsoldiers are responsible for hundreds of millions of deaths.

This, bytheway, doesn't mean anything because doctor from Canada.

 

[LaAguilaNegra]

China's government wants to reduce their population down to about 1 billion, from 1.4 billion, and that's probably where they will be by the end of the century. The projections of 400 million or less are not likely, they don't want their population to be that low.

China has a lot more leverage over their demography than the westernized, highly financialized economies of Japan, S Korea and Taiwan, where demographic collapse is due to economic and socio-cultural factors (feminism and work culture), though I think the Japanese authorities like the CPC don't mind their population dropping down 20% or 30%, Japan being overcrowded.

In comparison with Taiwan or S Korea, China creates favorable conditions for family formation, with very high home ownership rates and lower housing costs as a state policy, subsidized transport, dirt cheap or free education and healthcare, and low taxes.

Chinese Politburo in 2016: ~16 million births and 1.54 TFR endanger the long term stability and harmony of our country, society and Party, we need to radically change course and abandon the One Child Policy.

China in 2024: 9.5 million births and a 1.10 TFR, downwards demographic trajectory has accelerated, total defeat of the CCPs 2015 onward new pro-natalist policies.

You're running out of gas already Coop, come up with an actual counter for once, these slop tier replies aren't cutting it anymore. I'd personally suggest you stop parroting low brow takes from your turdworldist CCP e-daddies and start thinking for yourself so that you can regain some face

 

[Cooper]

Chinese Politburo in 2016: ~16 million births and 1.54 TFR endanger the long term stability and harmony of our country, society and Party, we need to radically change course and abandon the One Child Policy.

China in 2024: 9.5 million births and a 1.10 TFR, downwards demographic trajectory has accelerated, total defeat of the CCPs 2015 onward new pro-natalist policies.

You're running out of gas already Coop, come up with an actual counter for once, these slop tier replies aren't cutting it anymore. I'd personally suggest you stop parroting low brow takes from your turdworldist CCP e-daddies and start thinking for yourself so that you can regain some face

How about trying to conduct a reasonably mature, respectful conversation, instead of flying off the handle every time you read something you don't like and behaving like a douche? Perhaps you are incapable of this, in which case you should refrain from posting altogether.

Your takes on China are almost as poor as your NAFO-grade takes about Russia losing the Ukraine war, which you still managed to maintain with a straight face just a few months ago... The Chinese are not that worried yet about their demography. How do we know that? Well because they still have a child limit policy, of 3 per family. If they were really worried about their population growth, they would have removed that limit altogether.

They are aiming for a "soft landing" of a 1 billion population for the end of the century, which they can get by tweaking their social and economic policies, unlike say S Korea or Taiwan which are stuck in late stage financialized capitalism and creeping baizuo cultural degeneracy (homo and feminism).

 

[LaAguilaNegra]

Bald and Bankrupt almost went bankrupt in China because his phone app let him down. You saw the sweat on his face when no one even tried to help him out.

No thank you China, sounds like hell to me. But ey Kangaroo land is going the same way and social credit score is already a thing here too.

Heinz Kissinger's protege Klaus Schwab didn't call China a role model for the rest of the world for no good reason.

Total control, total scientific dictatorship. One click on a button and you're done. Meanwhile Trump just ditched the entire CBDC with one simple EO. Watch the players line up and then watch the mirrors and smoke screens get pulled up by bad faith actors elsewhere and here.

 

[RedLagoon]

Heinz Kissinger's protege Klaus Schwab didn't call China a role model for the rest of the world for no good reason.

Total control, total scientific dictatorship. One click on a button and you're done. Meanwhile Trump just ditched the entire CBDC with one simple EO. Watch the players line up and then watch the mirrors and smoke screens get pulled up by bad faith actors elsewhere and here.

That Schwab guy also said that the Australians were the "perfect example of how people should be" during the shooting grandma with rubber bullets stage so we can get rid of an imaginary virus age. As in; they did nothing really, just comply with whatever tyranny that was thrown at them.

You weren't even allowed to leave the place. Don't forget.

 

[Cooper]

Heinz Kissinger's protege Klaus Schwab didn't call China a role model for the rest of the world for no good reason.

Total control, total scientific dictatorship. One click on a button and you're done. Meanwhile Trump just ditched the entire CBDC with one simple EO. Watch the players line up and then watch the mirrors and smoke screens get pulled up by bad faith actors elsewhere and here.

China does have an authoritarian governance model that is based on their 4,000 year-old cultural heritage. Their political system has worked very well for them because their leadership doesn't hate their people and works towards the betterment of their nation and economy, that is the glaring difference between Xi and Schwab and his western minions like Macron, Trudeau or Starmer, who rule their countries for the benefit of the parasitic banksters/oligarch class.

Western-style liberal democracy would not have worked in mainland China, you would have had hundreds of millions of peasants overwhelming their cities, no centralized industrial policy, just financial interests running the country, and their cultural levers would have been taken over by the globalists (see Russia in the 1990s). You would have had a million plus gay parade in Shanghai and Beijing, Taiwan-style degeneracy on steroids:

 

[Samseau]

I have to agree with Cooper largely here. The idea that Chinese are the same as Whites is just absurd. They have a different mindset and culture, and the best form of government for them won't be the best form of government for us.

There is no "one size fits all" type of government. Different people take different governance.

 

[Cooper]

Heinz Kissinger's protege Klaus Schwab didn't call China a role model for the rest of the world for no good reason.

Total control, total scientific dictatorship. One click on a button and you're done.

Same here and across the West, one post critical of current year dogma can easily end your career. Try posting against the religion of holocaustianity under your real profile and see where that gets you, lol.

Ironically enough, you are free to do that in China. Holocaustianity brainwashing doesn't work there, because according to their culture, a people who has had bad things happen to them throughout history is a solid proof of bad karma accumulated from nefarious deeds.