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Roosh V & Muslim Skeptic: A Discussion About Orthodoxy and Islam
- Thread starter Teedub
- Start date
I watched this 2 years or so ago. AFTER, I had gotten out of ther Marine Corps and deployed.........
My only thought was what Roosh I assume, came to realize... Muslims and Christians have very little in common. Lots of anti-Jew Christians pretend that we are closer than we are apart.... but in reality.... theres a reason I've heard muslims refered to as "infidels" in Church... and for them theres a reason we are called "infidels" too. SO IT AINT EVER GONNA END.
I know there are quality people who are muslim, ive met them. But their religion is not compatible with mine and that much I know too eventually comes to blows.
Open for tons of commentary
My only thought was what Roosh I assume, came to realize... Muslims and Christians have very little in common. Lots of anti-Jew Christians pretend that we are closer than we are apart.... but in reality.... theres a reason I've heard muslims refered to as "infidels" in Church... and for them theres a reason we are called "infidels" too. SO IT AINT EVER GONNA END.
I know there are quality people who are muslim, ive met them. But their religion is not compatible with mine and that much I know too eventually comes to blows.
Open for tons of commentary
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I agree with @Get2choppaaa
As controversial as it may sound, the Jews (and I mean the current-day, Rabbinical Jews) are far closer to Christianity than Muslims in terms of theology. Both have wrong understanding of God but Jews are 'less wrong'. Also, if a Jew is honest with his faith and is truly trying to find the Truth he will find Jesus a lot faster than a Muslim because all the signs are in the Torah, one would simply need to put the puzzles together.
But, again, that's just the theological layer of this issue. Most Jews aren't trying to do that and their elites are doing everything in their power to fight and subvert Christian nations while certain Muslims communities have been helpful when it comes to fighting pro-LGBT agenda. At the end, however, none of them are actual allies of Christians and we should be aware of that.
As controversial as it may sound, the Jews (and I mean the current-day, Rabbinical Jews) are far closer to Christianity than Muslims in terms of theology. Both have wrong understanding of God but Jews are 'less wrong'. Also, if a Jew is honest with his faith and is truly trying to find the Truth he will find Jesus a lot faster than a Muslim because all the signs are in the Torah, one would simply need to put the puzzles together.
But, again, that's just the theological layer of this issue. Most Jews aren't trying to do that and their elites are doing everything in their power to fight and subvert Christian nations while certain Muslims communities have been helpful when it comes to fighting pro-LGBT agenda. At the end, however, none of them are actual allies of Christians and we should be aware of that.
There's a big caveat that makes that chart minimally or only mildly impactful, since muslims would also accuse us of "shirk" (associating partners with God).
Who do you say that I am?
Christians: God.
Muslims: Not God.
Jews: Not God.
We don't believe in the same God, therefore.
Who do you say that I am?
Christians: God.
Muslims: Not God.
Jews: Not God.
We don't believe in the same God, therefore.
Yet Muslims don't accept Jesus as God Incarnate and would throw you in prison or even kill you if you insist on claiming that. The table focuses only on few similarities from New Testament around Jesus Christ and it's obvious Jews would have nothing in common in that area as their whole post-Resurrection "schtick" is about rejecting Christ as the Messiah. But if a Jew was to look into the origins of his religion and then compare the signs left in Old Testament with revelations from New Testament then there is a chance he or she might connect the dots. There is no such thing to experience for a Muslim by just studying Quran.I'm only a layman on this issue, but I did come across this on X:
But as I mentioned earlier - the current Jewish leadership does everything in their power to discourage their flock from connecting these dots.
The first [practical] difference between the "Abrahamic" religions is numbers. So there is definitely going to be a logical fallacy present where Jews are not a threat because they're small in number. People here are jew pilled but it's something to keep in mind. Naturally, Islam, by sheer number, is a much bigger existential threat to Christendom. Although, considering we have an explosion of cultural secularism, this complicates this interfaith competition for dominance. Without cultural secularism, the two would be at odds. So many people today make these arguments: "A Muslim never..." which are technically true. Can an alliance be formed between the two faiths against []? No, it can't. Can an alliance be formed between Arabs and Whites? Yes. There's a distinction there. You see, just because a "Christian" enters a pact with a "Muslim" that doesn't mean Christianity is working alongside Islam.
Let's look at "Muslim" crime in Europe. Do these people commit these crimes...
I personally see a big difference between Christian Arabs and Muslim Arabs, so the religious component is strong. Having said that, can we truly exclude all the other points? We can see that human beings often act independently of religion. When people of your own faith do something good, you want to believe it's divinely inspired. When they do something bad, you want to say it's because they lack faith. So the lines are blurred between religion and secular phenomena. I guess you can make the argument that secular phenomena doesn't exist since God is everything, but then how do we reconcile the two? If anything I believe God wants us to overcome our "condition".
We see both religions, Christianity and Islam, having a high tolerance for secularism. Most Muslims flirt with nationalism/chauvinism, among many other things. I don't think the point needs to be made about Christians; it's self-evident. So there are two components to the Islam vs. Christianity question. There's a theological component and a natural/ethnic [secular] component. The ethnic question is easily answerable. People need to live separately, our human interests are at odds. So all we are left with is the theological component.
So when I watch videos like the one above, all I see is guys like Muslim Skeptic playing semantic games. This seems to run across the board for all Muslim apologists. Their main argument seems to be:
So their argumentation is extremely flawed by my standards. Not only that, they ignore the secular component and brazenly use it to play Catch 22 like they're exempt. This is where my main dislike for Muslims comes from. The arrogance, the pride, and the ignorance on display. This constant aversion to accountability. They literally refuse to explain their own actions without evoking Islam. It's either approved by Islam, so they don't even need to self-reflect, or it happened completely outside of Islam. Neither can they agree on what is approved or not. They can make rational or theological arguments all they want, but they're completely unenforceable in the Muslim world, which contradicts their "perfect way of life" argument.
I can't really argue with people who say it's more of a political movement, rather than a religion. There's even some parallels with communism. I wish Arabs all the luck in the world in their war against Zionism, but I don't think we can be friends except temporarily.
Let's look at "Muslim" crime in Europe. Do these people commit these crimes...
- because they're Muslim and were taught it's okay?
- because they're from a backward culture?
- because they were traumatized by hardship [hurt people hurt people]?
- because they feel inferior and alien in a foreign land?
- because they have a genetic predisposition to anti-social behavior?
- because this is just natural, self-interested human behavior?
- because they are encouraged by the system/Jews?
I personally see a big difference between Christian Arabs and Muslim Arabs, so the religious component is strong. Having said that, can we truly exclude all the other points? We can see that human beings often act independently of religion. When people of your own faith do something good, you want to believe it's divinely inspired. When they do something bad, you want to say it's because they lack faith. So the lines are blurred between religion and secular phenomena. I guess you can make the argument that secular phenomena doesn't exist since God is everything, but then how do we reconcile the two? If anything I believe God wants us to overcome our "condition".
We see both religions, Christianity and Islam, having a high tolerance for secularism. Most Muslims flirt with nationalism/chauvinism, among many other things. I don't think the point needs to be made about Christians; it's self-evident. So there are two components to the Islam vs. Christianity question. There's a theological component and a natural/ethnic [secular] component. The ethnic question is easily answerable. People need to live separately, our human interests are at odds. So all we are left with is the theological component.
So when I watch videos like the one above, all I see is guys like Muslim Skeptic playing semantic games. This seems to run across the board for all Muslim apologists. Their main argument seems to be:
- Islam is more logical.
- Sharia offers the perfect way of life.
So their argumentation is extremely flawed by my standards. Not only that, they ignore the secular component and brazenly use it to play Catch 22 like they're exempt. This is where my main dislike for Muslims comes from. The arrogance, the pride, and the ignorance on display. This constant aversion to accountability. They literally refuse to explain their own actions without evoking Islam. It's either approved by Islam, so they don't even need to self-reflect, or it happened completely outside of Islam. Neither can they agree on what is approved or not. They can make rational or theological arguments all they want, but they're completely unenforceable in the Muslim world, which contradicts their "perfect way of life" argument.
I can't really argue with people who say it's more of a political movement, rather than a religion. There's even some parallels with communism. I wish Arabs all the luck in the world in their war against Zionism, but I don't think we can be friends except temporarily.
The time Jews worked with Muslims in Spain against Christians (pre-1492) is a time Jews still consider a Golden Age.
Talmudic Judaism is practically designed to inoculate Jews against Christianity. So is the Holocaust narrative, which also seeks to remove the Cross as the center of human history and insert Jews as a replacement.
Jews today are basically worshiping Molech ("Abortion is a fundamental Jewish value!").
If a Muslim converts to Christianity his family can try to impose a death sentence on him, he is a true infidel.
Islam also took over historically Christian lands all over, and imposed the jizya tax and dhimmitude on Christians.
This is a clear case of "the enemy of my enemy is not necessarily my friend." What we have here is an enemy triangle.
Talmudic Judaism is practically designed to inoculate Jews against Christianity. So is the Holocaust narrative, which also seeks to remove the Cross as the center of human history and insert Jews as a replacement.
Jews today are basically worshiping Molech ("Abortion is a fundamental Jewish value!").
If a Muslim converts to Christianity his family can try to impose a death sentence on him, he is a true infidel.
Islam also took over historically Christian lands all over, and imposed the jizya tax and dhimmitude on Christians.
This is a clear case of "the enemy of my enemy is not necessarily my friend." What we have here is an enemy triangle.
Muslims are pretty much lower IQ Jews. They brute force their way through European Christian society instead of the merchant business. They might be closer to Christ theologically than the literal Synagogue of Satan, but that's just grasping at straws.
I think its very important for us Christians to discuss islam and their heresies and to know their beliefs, Father Josiah Trenham had a good talk about Islam and recommends we read the autobiography of Mohammad, according to Fr. Josiah Trenham Islam is the greatest threat to Christianity and I agree with him, historically it definately was, I engage with Muslims a lot, yes they will say they believe in Jesus and the virgin Mary but they deny Christs divinity and they dont believe in the Trinity. The sad situation is that Islam is growing in the west not only by migration but even many westerners that I engage with are turning to Islam or at least flirting with it, example: Owen Benjamin is now a sharia law promoter and so are many of his followers and some were even former Christians, protestants, I know this as Iv engaged with them and some Iv even engaged on DMs, many are still very young though
I'll post tomorrow on why simpleton stuff like this grows. I've said the last 3-5 years how sad it is that Islam is in any way attractive, but all that is really saying is that western globohomo culture is that bad. A tallest midget sorta thing.
Islam, whether we like it or not, definitely has the virility in the west and elsewhere that Christianity is currently lacking. It's been discussed at length, but in the process of being super inclusive and tolerant it's been watered down so much as to be totally impotent. I'm talking almost entirely about Protestantism of course, however, that's the default in the Anglosphere as well as Scandi and Germany. Responsible for our global domination these past few hundred years, as well as our current predicament.
I don't see people voluntarily converting to (Islam) it en masse though, despite the Andrew Tate's of the world. It's too alien to most and requires too much deviation from 'the norm' for the average Westerner. Similarly, the counter jihad types like Tommy Robinson and so on are only going to become more popular again now that they've essentially been given the nod by the higher ups.
For a lot of the red pill dissident types, I imagine they support it somewhat ironically. It's a dangerous game, but I do understand the appeal. It's a bit of a shield too, as Roosh discovered during the Canada debacle in 2016 when he talked up his Muslim background to deflect the 'misogyny' attacks.
I don't see people voluntarily converting to (Islam) it en masse though, despite the Andrew Tate's of the world. It's too alien to most and requires too much deviation from 'the norm' for the average Westerner. Similarly, the counter jihad types like Tommy Robinson and so on are only going to become more popular again now that they've essentially been given the nod by the higher ups.
For a lot of the red pill dissident types, I imagine they support it somewhat ironically. It's a dangerous game, but I do understand the appeal. It's a bit of a shield too, as Roosh discovered during the Canada debacle in 2016 when he talked up his Muslim background to deflect the 'misogyny' attacks.
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I just finished that Youtube video. That was a hard video to watch, the muslim guy wanted to debate so much and win it destroyed much profit from the discussion. The "interview" was hardly as such. With stuff like this I can see why Roosh would want to disappear from being a public internet personality. This guy tries to debate Roosh when Roosh is only 2 years convert at this point and has made a massive transformation in his life that is not even acknowledged. The evil he turned away from, it is waved away so the guy can continue to defend mass immigration to America.
I also can't stand people who concoct hypothetical scenarios in an attempt to further their argument. Part of what made Roosh so popular was his adherence to fact and reality.
The muslim demonstrates why he cannot be accepted into American society at large because of the inherent globalism it serves. He kept trying to force the issue by bringing religion into it, because Islam is not separate from the State, demonstrating the inborn incompatibility between Chrsitianity and Islam. With Christians you can have different nations, but with Islam you cannot, not ultimately. Probably because it was a religion that united warring tribes, so it's going to have this plan of universalism. You would also not think there was ever any difference between sunni and shiite muslims, he seemed to refuse to have any humility regarding Islam and its history and the actions of its actors.
That's a tough discussion to have with a Youtube debate grifter. It was easy to empathize with Roosh over the muslim because he remained patient and tried to explain his thinking but the other guy felt it necessary to defend his religion for his audience and came across as passive-aggressive, often insulting Roosh. Stubbornness does not win debates, it closes minds.
I also can't stand people who concoct hypothetical scenarios in an attempt to further their argument. Part of what made Roosh so popular was his adherence to fact and reality.
The muslim demonstrates why he cannot be accepted into American society at large because of the inherent globalism it serves. He kept trying to force the issue by bringing religion into it, because Islam is not separate from the State, demonstrating the inborn incompatibility between Chrsitianity and Islam. With Christians you can have different nations, but with Islam you cannot, not ultimately. Probably because it was a religion that united warring tribes, so it's going to have this plan of universalism. You would also not think there was ever any difference between sunni and shiite muslims, he seemed to refuse to have any humility regarding Islam and its history and the actions of its actors.
That's a tough discussion to have with a Youtube debate grifter. It was easy to empathize with Roosh over the muslim because he remained patient and tried to explain his thinking but the other guy felt it necessary to defend his religion for his audience and came across as passive-aggressive, often insulting Roosh. Stubbornness does not win debates, it closes minds.
What the? Citation needed. 1,000 years ago maybe.
Muslims get along with both Christians and Jews better than Christians and Jews, who have historically had the greatest animosity, Palestine notwithstanding. No Muslim ever spat at an Orthodox nun. No Muslim ever chopped off Christian baby penises. Muslims generally tolerate Christians and Jews as long as they don't interfere with Muslim society and they even created a system to accomodate nonbelievers called dhimmitude. Remember, there was even an incredibly annoying Jew living in Afghanistan, and the Taliban just put up with him for years.
The last Jews in Afghanistan argued so much the Taliban kicked them out of prison and stole their Torah - Jewish Telegraphic Agency
A Foreign Policy profile of Zabulon Simentov uncovered some incredible stories.
www.jta.org
The best thing about Islam is that it proscribes a way for society to operate, and bounds for what government is allowed to do. And you even find pockets of Christians that choose to live in Muslim countries specifically for those benefits.
The reality is that Christianity is endemically a European religion, and Islam a Mideastern one. Comparing them as if they are just alternative choices one can pick if one wants to worship God is missing the entire reason the religions developed the way they did.
(Side note: All the Muslims I know are white boys who converted to Islam from a normie American life, but again this is more for the societal reasons above than theology and this situation is the exception, with probably 90% of Muslims living in the Mideast. I even know one who practices Muslim rituals while belieiving Christian theology, the way the weird Jews for Jesus group has ostensibly Christian beliefs but follows Jewish rituals.)
But there is loads of misinformation about Muslims in this thread. You know there is an app on your phone you can use to summon a Muslim to your house and have a conversation with him. It's called Uber.
Well we must do a step back first and rephrase: Islam is the greatest threat to Christianity because of the conniving actions of jewish generational saboteurs. The hidden hand is always behind the altercating movements of two peoples against one another, even if one is Christian and the other is not. Shintoism and Buddhism never massacred Christians on the same scale as Islam has, but Islam has never massacred Christian on the scale the jewish Bolshevism and Marxism has. So clearly the greatest enemy of Christianity is the source of most of its exhaustion of its blood on the earth.
The other sad fact is that many young beautiful girls who are Muslim are convincing men to convert in order to marry, as most "Christian" girls in western countries are either whores, addicts, full of mental illnesses, covered in satanic tattoos, or all of the previous. We are fighting a losing battle on the family front and that is the test of longevity for a people, a race, a group of races, and their shared faith. It is exhausting, but the source of this must be creating larger Christian families, large enough to put the 20+kid Irish families of the past centuries to shame. These kind of numbers just aren't feasible unless men are marrying young women (18) and popping out a kid every 9-10 months for the next 12 years. Muslims do this everywhere, and with multiple women. A little gameshark cheat code that allows them to multiply greater, and the jews certainly use this to their advantage when taking one race and using it as a battering ram against another to cause destruction everywhere. More bodies means more casualties. The western blacks were basically brought down to muslim-level hyper-breeding but without any structure and were intended to be reduced to more chaotic organisms for the same purpose of wanton destruction, both of themselves and of everything around them.
The bolded part reminds me of this Jew below in the video who came to faith in Christ. He talked about how his grandparents told him not to read the Christian Bible because it was a user manual on how to persecute the Jews. He read the Bible anyway and saw through the nonsense he was to told about Christianity,
To be honest I dont think it would be such a bad thing for Islam to take over the governments of the west, protestant Christianity has failed and at least islam with force would put an end to Feminism, abortion, womans rights and especially the right for a woman to get divorced for no reason and take the kids, same sex marriage, to be honest I think I would be quite happy to see all that stuff gone, Islam would be better than the current secular anti God atheist society, yes we would be persecuted as Christians but we are already being persecuted, I dont know about you guys but I think It might not be such a bad thing, maybe we should fight against it too much, we can always convert the Muslims later
That's correct. I think the selection of caucasians is hard core over time, but it's complicated since people don't think that it's really there after 70 years of "peace", but it still is. We're just in a different type of war, a soft one of insidious materialism and anti religious numbing of the biggest bulwark against centralized or elite powers. That doesn't do most men any good but it is true that there are more people, and thus more average to worse people, than at a lot of other times in history. Sad, but true.
All that said, the tech angle is really the only one that will counter the anti-pop crowd, and even then it's not as good for us humans overall from a formative and balanced approach to life.
Shaquilleoatmeal
Protestant
This is why Trump banning Muslims from the United States was a great thing. I recently read about Muslims “growing” in the USA. From 1% to 2% by 2050, though, so basically they will be a super small % either way. Thank God we’re not getting invaded like poor Europe.
Are you serious? Would you willingly move to Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Iran, the UAE, or Sudan? Christians in the West are not persecuted like there are in Muslim. Not even close IMO.