Roosh V & Muslim Skeptic: A Discussion About Orthodoxy and Islam

In many Islamic countries being a Christian is a death sentence. The enemy of your enemy is not your friend.

Islam is a barbaric, thuggish religion that is based on heresy.
The Coptic Christians I know living in Egypt, and the ones I went to school with who are from Turkey and Syria, as well as the few I know who grew up in Iran would say otherwise. I can't speak for Indonesia, Malaysia, Pakistan, or the rest of the "stans" but the mileage varies. They certainly don't have their Churches defiled by jews and marxists in these countries. I know that Saudi Arabia (which are essentially jewified Arabs) won't have any of it, so yes there are cases of Islamic nations outright banning it and not allowing it.

I could say the same thing about "Christian Zionists," they are a thuggish cult based on multiple heresies, or Mormons, or any other weed in the garden of faith that sprouted up and became bothersome.
 
https://www.npr.org/2023/08/16/1194162768/pakistan-christians-churches-attacked-mob-blasphemy

In Crapistan, a blasphemy charge is enough to ruin your life, as well as your family's. Doesn't matter if you're guilty or not. As a Christian, you will be assumed to be guilty.
More proof why we need European Christian Nations. There wouldn't be any of these problems if we all had our own spaces. Also, there is a very obvious factor in this story, and many others like it, which precludes religion and is a matter of intelligence. These atavists get emotional at the slightest perceived offense. Whether or not the Pakistani with the very-un-Christian sounding name tore out pages of the Quran and wrote slander on them or another Muslim did, or some jew did, is beyond any of our ability to confer. Separation is the only way.

Let the Christian civilization flourish on its own, without jews, in parallel to an Islamic one. God's truth will show the world why our faith in Christ will bring us what these other beliefs never can.
 
The Coptic Christians I know living in Egypt, and the ones I went to school with who are from Turkey and Syria, as well as the few I know who grew up in Iran would say otherwise. I can't speak for Indonesia, Malaysia, Pakistan, or the rest of the "stans" but the mileage varies. They certainly don't have their Churches defiled by jews and marxists in these countries. I know that Saudi Arabia (which are essentially jewified Arabs) won't have any of it, so yes there are cases of Islamic nations outright banning it and not allowing it.

I could say the same thing about "Christian Zionists," they are a thuggish cult based on multiple heresies, or Mormons, or any other weed in the garden of faith that sprouted up and became bothersome.
Turkish people are pretty secular in general - despite their government being Islamic friendly. I've met my share of Turkish people in the states and pretty much everyone one of them was non-religious. It's a similar to situation to Iran where the government is officially Islamic but the rest of the population, especially under 40 are becoming more and more secular. Basically the Islamic countries that are the least hostile to Christianity are also the ones where people are more secular. That's not really a plus in favor of Islam.

If we're talking about anecdotal experience, well the Copts I know aren't in Egypt for a reason. I have a friend whose wife is a Syrian Christian and I remember her specifically telling me if she ever went back to Syria she wouldn't wear the cross necklace that she typically wears here in the states.

I'm not sure what exactly the Islam friendly people in this thread are arguing for. They seem to be imply they would prefer the Western to be more Islamic and then when people point out what Islamic societies are like they backtrack and say "well i'm not saying that but..." There's tons of problems with the West right but there's still a better chance for a revival to happen and for Christianity to take hold here then in a country like Saudi Arabia or Iran where as some posters pointed out, it's actually illegal to evangelize.
 
The Coptic Christians I know living in Egypt, and the ones I went to school with who are from Turkey and Syria, as well as the few I know who grew up in Iran would say otherwise. I can't speak for Indonesia, Malaysia, Pakistan, or the rest of the "stans" but the mileage varies. They certainly don't have their Churches defiled by jews and marxists in these countries. I know that Saudi Arabia (which are essentially jewified Arabs) won't have any of it, so yes there are cases of Islamic nations outright banning it and not allowing it.

I could say the same thing about "Christian Zionists," they are a thuggish cult based on multiple heresies, or Mormons, or any other weed in the garden of faith that sprouted up and became bothersome.

Sure some Islamic countries tolerate Christianity. The Ottoman Turks tolerated it, but the damage and corruption instilled from their handling of it can be seen in the Ecumenical Patriarchate to this day.

Also their tolerance tends to wane if you start converting Muslims.

I just think its naive when people say stuff about the "based" Taliban or whatnot. Also we can whine about Jews until we are blue in the face, but our nations are the ones who turned away from Christ and allowed them to influence us. I believe that we get the leadership we deserve, we get a boatload of immigrants for every abortion we allow, we get a full mosque for every empty church, we get a faggot wedding for every man and woman who don't marry, I could go on... Its important to be awake to the JQ but if we were a strong Christian nation we would be and it wouldn't be a problem.

I think Christians in the West have to repent for all this, and wishing to replace one set of enemy rulers for another is just naive if you ask me.
 
Sure some Islamic countries tolerate Christianity. The Ottoman Turks tolerated it, but the damage and corruption instilled from their handling of it can be seen in the Ecumenical Patriarchate to this day.

Also their tolerance tends to wane if you start converting Muslims.

I just think its naive when people say stuff about the "based" Taliban or whatnot. Also we can whine about Jews until we are blue in the face, but our nations are the ones who turned away from Christ and allowed them to influence us. I believe that we get the leadership we deserve, we get a boatload of immigrants for every abortion we allow, we get a full mosque for every empty church, we get a faggot wedding for every man and woman who don't marry, I could go on... Its important to be awake to the JQ but if we were a strong Christian nation we would be and it wouldn't be a problem.

I think Christians in the West have to repent for all this, and wishing to replace one set of enemy rulers for another is just naive if you ask me.
Yes but it was mostly due to the influence, interference, and interloping of the jews as to why there are so many abortions (a jewish right so they say), fag weddings (brought to you by the same jews who tranny all the kids with their nepotistic badgering of the court systems), and empty churches from the secular hedonistic jewstyles they have seduced people with. On top of that, all the hundreds of spiritually-empty denominations of Christianity whose buildings are hollow and pallid, which were not designed with divinely-inspired sacred geometry, do little to bring adherents back or create new ones. America and the west did not turn their back on God on their own, they were lead away from God by a cold, calculating, and demonic enemy. That interfered every step of the way. Of course many of the people are going to be CINO's as they go about their day sinning according to the jews whim, what do they know? Many of them will never reach the conclusion you have stated here, that they get the punishment they spiritually deserve. I am with you all the way on this, they must be taught repentance, or in the very least stay out of the way of Christian leaders who attempt to resurrect their people from this intravenous jewish malaise.

In all of my arguments I push for separation of European Christian societies from every other form of human life in the world. I still do, and I always will. Islam is not going away anytime soon, which is why we must seek to live in parallel with it, albeit not geographically proxemic to it. To those Christians who live in Muslim lands, the contentious issue of the hour, I take an entirely different approach. All Christendom should be the borders of its own faith and adherents, and outside this beacon of light, love, and truth, it would be folly, and has been folly, to attempt to convert the heathens other than those who naturally acclimate to the truth of Christ, being the genetic citizens and descendants of Mediterranea and Europa.

Whether one of these people in the west is an atheist, a marxist, a communist, or any other flavor of disbeliever, it all stems from one tribe's warfare against another. Every weapon used to lessen the faith of a man is the blow of the sword from one side of the battlefield towards their opponents (even if they don't realize it) on the other side. Even if one is a doubter of the faith on the inside, as there are in every confession, and every other world religion too, there is a recognition inside of man of what is good for society, for their people. A people without a spiritual life are doomed to be victims of the eternal parasites.
 
My claim is as it always was: there needs to be nations where the government, military, and nobility are inherently Christian, run by a strong leadership consisting of a leader or group of leaders in symphony with an uncorrupted Apostolic Church and the non spiritual elements of these nations still maintain a pro-Christian morality. The synthesis of the old world faith and the new world rule by the people with a strong leader for every nation.
As for the United States that was the 1.0 plan. Virginia and Maryland were an extension of the United Kingdom - Anglicanism official.

Rest of the colonies all had their official faiths. John Winthrop when he founded the Massachusetts Bay Colony saw the new land’s capital as a “city on a hill, a light unto the world.” The constitution was written with the publics religiosity in mind. Read some Tocqueville. Secular America is a myth that was made up.
 
I should have posted this here originally rather than in another thread.

Strong Man's Religion: Christianity or Islam?
"It can be quite objectively said that Christianity is - the religion of strong people, whereas Islam is - a religion for the weak and frail. Christianity is - for the free, Islam is - for the slaves. We are talking here about the most important freedom for man — freedom from sin and his own passions, from which the Muslim faith is unable to free its followers. And this is exactly what explains the spread of Islam in the modern world. It is precisely why Islam is becoming popular now in the West, because the era of the weak man is coming; secularized humanity is now cultivating its weaknesses and drowning in voluntary laxity."

Strong Man's Religion: Christianity or Islam?

"Once upon a time, at the dawn of the VII century after the Birth of Christ, in the middle of the Arabian deserts, far from the civilized world, a remarkable event happened. In the darkness of the night, under the low arches of the cave of Mount Hira, to a forty-year-old Arab who spent time here in solitude, someone appeared. Someone strong and terrible, who began to strangle him, forcing him to read a strange text on behalf of some kind of master. Fearing for his life, the Arab gave in and repeated the text — and the vision disappeared. Terrified, he ran to his home and wrapped himself in a blanket in horror, not daring to show himself outside.

For quite a long time after that he he was tormented by doubts, suspecting that he had met that memorable night with dark forces, spirits of evil. But later his family managed to convince him that none other than the messenger of God, an Angel, appeared to him, who thereby called him to become a prophet for his people. Believing in this, this Arab soon announced a new teaching in Arabia: to worship a lonely God (Quran 112.1), distant (Quran 12.31) and cruel (Quran 17.58), the source of both good and evil (Quran 10.107; 39.38), by which everything that happens is predetermined (Quran 33.38). For a man who wished to please such a god, he was commanded to believe in his solitary isolation, as well as that the Arab merchant who announced this teaching was his messenger and prophet; to perform a certain ritual five times a day with the recitation of prayer formulas and the alternation of bodily poses; to once in a lifetime visit a sanctuary in an Arab city and slaughter a sheep on a nearby mountain; to spend a small portion of his earnings on his household, and one month a year, eat and drink only at night. And it was also commanded to wage a holy war with those who do not recognize this teaching until they are subjugated to it (Quran 2.193). Those who observe the above were promised prosperity in this life, and in the life to come a beautiful garden with eternal pleasures — mainly of sexual and gastronomic character, as well as, partially, aesthetic. All this was recorded in a book, compiled already after the death of the founder, which was declared to be the revelation and creation of this god, and its text — eternal and unchangeable to the letter.

This Arab's name was Muhammad, and his teaching was called Islam — derived from the Arabic word "peace" (salam), and many of his followers soon swept across the earth and in merciless bloody wars soon captured vast territories — both from Christians, Western and Eastern, as well as from Zoroastrians, heathens, Hindus. This "religion of peace" eventually spread to many nations, and its adherents continued to wage continuous wars, even to this day.

All is known in comparison, therefore, let's compare the teachings of Muhammad and the teachings of Christ, and consider which of the religions is intended for a strong man, and which has the power to make him strong.

To begin with, the Muslim Holy Scripture itself is three times smaller in volume than the Christian Holy Scripture. Even just to read the Bible requires three times more effort, time and perseverance than to read the Quran. We will see the same proportion when comparing their contents.

Christianity teaches restraint of one's passions — such as hatred, lust, and avarice; Islam, on the contrary, indulges all of them: for example, although it recognizes that mercy is more pleasing to God, it allows revenge, although it says that God is more pleased with the unity of the family, it recognizes divorce at any whim of the husband, although it encourages alms, it also praises the passion of accumulating wealth.

Christianity blesses marriage with only one wife, Islam allows you to have four wives and countless concubines. It is clear to any reasonable person that it is much more difficult to observe marital fidelity in a legal marriage with a single wife than, within the limits of what is permissible, to have a relationship with almost an unlimited number of women.

Islam commands you to pray five times a day, but Christians have the commandment to pray unceasingly (1 Thess 5:17).

Muslims fast for only three weeks, while Orthodox fast for more than half a year, whereby the fast is extended to whole days (day and night), and not only during the day, as in Islam. Of course, in order to fast for more than 180 days and nights, it takes a lot more effort than to fast for twenty days.

Some cite the Muslim law forbidding the use of wine as something sublime. But on closer examination, even in this, Arab religion gives way to the teaching of the Church. Christianity does not prohibit the use of wine as such, but strictly prohibits drunkenness - drunkards do not inherit the Kingdom of God (1 Corinthians 6:10). And it is obvious to anyone that only a strong person can, while drinking alcohol, observe the measure and not fall into drunkenness; a complete rejection of alcohol is a somewhat easier way to overcome this sin.

Islam also prohibits eating pork, and sets some other restrictions in clothing and behavior, but it is quite clear that it is much easier not to eat pork and not to wear silk than to keep the commandment to abstain from sin even in thoughts — as every Christian is commanded.

Take the conduct of war. Those who try to push Christianity into the Procrustean bed of dull pacifism are blind. Defensive warfare is unequivocally blessed by the Church. From the holy warriors — from generals to privates — not just one division is assembled for the King of Heaven in the image of the Saints. But if in Islam the conduct of wars is based on hatred for the killed, in Christianity the basis of military feats is love for those who need to be protected — "greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one’s life for his friends" (John 15:13), and these words can rightfully refer to those who died with honor in battle. This is the teaching of Christ, and only a person strong in spirit and will can bear it.

We can go on with the comparisons for a very, very long time. But even on the basis of what has already been given, it can be quite objectively said that Christianity is the religion of strong people, whereas Islam is a religion for the weak and frail. Christianity is for the free, Islam is for the slaves. We are talking here about the most important freedom for man — freedom from sin and his own passions, from which the Muslim faith is unable to free its followers.

And this explains the spread of Islam in the modern world. It is precisely why Islam is becoming popular now in the West, because the era of the weak man is coming; secularized humanity is cultivating its weaknesses and wallows in voluntary laxity. How pleasant it is for them to hear: "Allah wants to make life easier for you; for Man is created weak." (Quran 4.28).

According to Christian teaching, man is created strong, and called to be strong. The fact that for two millennia the Church has not lowered such a high bar of its moral ideal testifies to the fact that this ideal is - in Church - really achievable. And examples of this are not only hundreds of thousands of saints, but also millions of ordinary Orthodox Christians who embodied this ideal in their lives. “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” (Mt 19:26), and the Lord Jesus Christ, to Whom everything is possible, gives the power to do what we have listed, and more than that.

Each of us has a choice — to remain weak or to become strong. To swim down the current to the precipice or against the current to the shore. And no one will escape (the choice), and it is up to the person, what will be chosen in the end.

You just need to know and remember that from all who were supposed to become strong, but who voluntarily remained weak, will be asked to the fullest extent — in due time."

"The Kingdom of Heaven is conquered with effort, and those who strive gain it (Mt 11:12)."
-Priest Georgy Maximov

https://tinyurl.mobi/33fkV
 
@Kingdom Interesting take: “Islam is for the slaves and Christianity is for the free”

In Islam every last detail of your life is managed so you don’t sin against God. In Christianity you’re free to live as you wish. But you know what pleases God so you chose to not sin.
 
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